Scotland v Italy, 29 August

by **George Carlin** Sun 23 Aug 2015, 1:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Italy, 29 August - Page 2 Scot_f10

SCOTLAND v ITALY
29 August 2015
KO: 15:15 BST
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BT Sport

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant Referees: [TBC]
TMO: [TBC]

A. Head to Head

24 Played 24
16 Won 8
0 Drawn 0
8 Lost 8
540 Points 428

B. Recent Form

22 August 2015
Stadio Olimpico di Torino, Turin
12–16 to Scotland

28 February 2015
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh
19 – 22 to Italy

22 February 2014
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
20 – 21 to Scotland

22 June 2013
Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria, South Africa
30 – 29 to Scotland

9 February 2013
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
34 – 10 to Scotland

17 March 2012
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
13 – 6 to Italy

20 August 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
23 – 12 to Scotland

19 March 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
21 – 8 to Scotland

C. Teams

SCOTLAND
Scotland v Italy, 29 August - Page 2 Katie_10

Scotland v Italy, 29 August - Page 2 Katie_10

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps; 9 tries, 1 pen, 48 points
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 95 caps; 12 tries, 60 points
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
12 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps, 1 try, 1 con, 1 pen, 10 points
11 Tim Visser (Harlequins); 19 caps; 7 tries, 35 points
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps; 1 try, 1 con, 7 points
09 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester) – 39 caps; 3 tries, 41 cons, 81 pens, 340 points

01 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 45 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
02 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 87 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
03 Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
04 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 9 caps, 1 try, 5 points
05 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps; 1 try, 5 points
06 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
07 John Barclay (Scarlets) – 44 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 26 caps

16 Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps
18 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps; 1 try
19 Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps; 1 try, 5 points
20 Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 12 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 15 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
22 Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps) – 26 caps; 4 cons, 2 pens, 2 drops, 20 points
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 27 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

ITALY
Scotland v Italy, 29 August - Page 2 Alessa10

Scotland v Italy, 29 August - Page 2 Alessa10

15 Luke McLean, 14 Angelo Esposito, 13 Michele Campagnaro, 12 Luca Morisi, 11 Leonardo Sarto, 10 Tommaso Allan, 9 Guglielmo Palazzani; 1 Matias Aguero, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini (c), 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 4 Marco Fuser, 5 Joshua Furno, 6 Alessandro Zanni, 7 Francesco Minto, 8 Samuela Vunisa.

Replacements: 16 Andrea Manici, 17 Michele Rizzo, 18 Dario Chistolini, 19 Quintin Geldenhuys, 20 Mauro Bergamasco, 21 Marcello Violi, 22 Carlo Canna, 23 Andrea Masi.

by GLove39 Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:29 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Please tell me Hugh Blake isn't still in the squad?

Sounds as though he is... should be fun if he lines up against Watson & Roddy Grant come the 1872 clashes

by **George Carlin** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:30 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Please tell me Hugh Blake isn't still in the squad?

Okay, I won't.

I presume this means Hardie will get to play at least 40 minutes. It would be mad to play Blake because he simply isn't going to travel so I presume Cowan, Hardie and maybe even the pariah John Barclay sharing the 7 shirt.

by **RDW** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:30 pm

Edinburgh opensides obviously just aren't rated!

I'd understand Watson missing out to Barclay, Cowan and even Hardie, but to miss out to Hugh Blake really is a big surprise.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:31 pm

Honestly, Hugh Blake has looked like a decent player recently so I have nothing against him, but he played the square root of bugg3r all rugby last season and Watson was consistently one of Edinburgh's best players and shone when he came on at the weekend. I can't get my head around this at all.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:32 pm

jimbopip wrote:Wiz, I'm sure Rowdy McGilp aka Brubro will provide the appropriate vidoelinkexcerpt but there is an episode of father Ted where the Church Inspectors come to give Craggy Island the once over. Ted instructs Dougall that if anyone asks him a difficult question just to nod sagely and say "Ah that would be an ecumenical matter."

The bishops think Dougal is a very wise young man indeed.

Pretty sure it was Father Jack rather than Dougal.

I thought Gilchrist had a decent game last week. He's starting to throw himself about a bit more in the tackle which is good to see, bearing in mind he's just on the way back from injury.

He's certainly the right choice to back-up Grayx2.

by Majestic83 Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:33 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Edinburgh opensides obviously just aren't rated!

I'd understand Watson missing out to Barclay, Cowan and even Hardie, but to miss out to Hugh Blake really is a big surprise.

Saying that Hugh Blake was very good against Ireland. Watson was good the short time he was on against Italy but it was when Italy were tiring.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:35 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Honestly, Hugh Blake has looked like a decent player recently so I have nothing against him, but he played the square root of bugg3r all rugby last season and Watson was consistently one of Edinburgh's best players and shone when he came on at the weekend. I can't get my head around this at all.

+1

Blake is one for next season, once he gets the Glasgow jersey and starts to prove himself. I thought he looked ok during the Ireland game and is certainly a specialist 7 - he's quick and reads the game pretty well.

I would start Barclay in this game at 7 with Watson on the bench, and take another look at Cowan in the 6 jersey. Denton at 8.

by **RDW** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:40 pm

Majestic83 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Edinburgh opensides obviously just aren't rated!

I'd understand Watson missing out to Barclay, Cowan and even Hardie, but to miss out to Hugh Blake really is a big surprise.

Saying that Hugh Blake was very good against Ireland. Watson was good the short time he was on against Italy but it was when Italy were tiring.

He had a few good patches but I think 'very good' is a bit optimistic!

by **RDW** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:41 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Honestly, Hugh Blake has looked like a decent player recently so I have nothing against him, but he played the square root of bugg3r all rugby last season and Watson was consistently one of Edinburgh's best players and shone when he came on at the weekend. I can't get my head around this at all.

+1

Blake is one for next season, once he gets the Glasgow jersey and starts to prove himself. I thought he looked ok during the Ireland game and is certainly a specialist 7 - he's quick and reads the game pretty well.

I would start Barclay in this game at 7 with Watson on the bench, and take another look at Cowan in the 6 jersey. Denton at 8.

Have you missed the earlier revelation that Watson has been binned from the squad yet Blake retained?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:43 pm

The more interesting aspect of the back row for my money against Ireland was the performance of Blair Cowan at 6. I thought he went really well in the 6 jersey and in combination with an out and out 7, and Denton at 8, could give us a really mobile pack to combine with a more open style of play.

Perhaps not one for South Africa, but it could be really handy for Japan and Samoa.

by **BigGee** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:43 pm

Agree tough on Watson, who had a decent cameo on saturday. I think it is highly unlikely that either he or HB would have made the final cut though, there are just to many good experienced players ahead of them.

As already said, none of the others are a great surprise and it is probably good news about Maitland, Bennett and Dunbar that all the young wingers went home. Expect to see some of them start on saturday.

The front row really is a worry though. Welsh did not have a great game against Ireland either and he is now more or less a shoe in. Have any of those other proprs played at TH at all. I guess if there is an injury then replacements are close to hand.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:45 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Honestly, Hugh Blake has looked like a decent player recently so I have nothing against him, but he played the square root of bugg3r all rugby last season and Watson was consistently one of Edinburgh's best players and shone when he came on at the weekend. I can't get my head around this at all.

+1

Blake is one for next season, once he gets the Glasgow jersey and starts to prove himself. I thought he looked ok during the Ireland game and is certainly a specialist 7 - he's quick and reads the game pretty well.

I would start Barclay in this game at 7 with Watson on the bench, and take another look at Cowan in the 6 jersey. Denton at 8.

Have you missed the earlier revelation that Watson has been binned from the squad yet Blake retained?

I hadn't realised that was official. Cotter must really be serious about taking Blake.

One for the statisticians, but has a player ever reached a point in his career before when he has played more international rugby matches than non-international professional rugby matches in a season/calendar year??

by **RDW** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:51 pm

So looking at the remaining squad:

Forwards - 21

Prop - Dickinson, Reid, Grant, Nel, Welsh
Hooker - Ford, Brown, McInally,
Lock - Gray, Gray, better-than-Jim, Harley, Jim
6/8 - Denton, Strauss, Ashe, Wilson
7 - Cowan, Barclay, Hardie, Blake

Backs - 17
9 - Laidlaw, Pyrgos, S-H-C
10 Russell, Weir, Tonks, Jackson
12/13 - Horne, Scott, Vernon, Bennett, Vernon
11/14 - Seymour, Lamont, Visser, Maitland
15 - Hogg

So 4 forwards and 3 backs still to go. 3 and 4 if he's looking for a 18/13 split.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:55 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Honestly, Hugh Blake has looked like a decent player recently so I have nothing against him, but he played the square root of bugg3r all rugby last season and Watson was consistently one of Edinburgh's best players and shone when he came on at the weekend. I can't get my head around this at all.

+1

Blake is one for next season, once he gets the Glasgow jersey and starts to prove himself. I thought he looked ok during the Ireland game and is certainly a specialist 7 - he's quick and reads the game pretty well.

I would start Barclay in this game at 7 with Watson on the bench, and take another look at Cowan in the 6 jersey. Denton at 8.

Have you missed the earlier revelation that Watson has been binned from the squad yet Blake retained?

I hadn't realised that was official. Cotter must really be serious about taking Blake.

One for the statisticians, but has a player ever reached a point in his career before when he has played more international rugby matches than non-international professional rugby matches in a season/calendar year??

On the bright side it means that Barclay is getting a chance! Probably him vs Blake in the openside cover wars... It also depends on whether Harley gets another chance. Although we're yet to see Strauss in blue, I guess it depends how he goes against Canada with Glasgow?

Either way, intriguing!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:55 pm

I do feel sorry for Watson. I can only assume that his size counted against him given our key opponents are South Africa and Samoa. Still, that doesn't explain the retention of Hugh Blake who is similarly slight of build.

It's gauling for Watson, but the best thing he can do now is get back to Edinburgh and play his socks off, proving Cotter wrong in the process.

by **George Carlin** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:56 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Honestly, Hugh Blake has looked like a decent player recently so I have nothing against him, but he played the square root of bugg3r all rugby last season and Watson was consistently one of Edinburgh's best players and shone when he came on at the weekend. I can't get my head around this at all.

+1

Blake is one for next season, once he gets the Glasgow jersey and starts to prove himself. I thought he looked ok during the Ireland game and is certainly a specialist 7 - he's quick and reads the game pretty well.

I would start Barclay in this game at 7 with Watson on the bench, and take another look at Cowan in the 6 jersey. Denton at 8.

Have you missed the earlier revelation that Watson has been binned from the squad yet Blake retained?

I hadn't realised that was official. Cotter must really be serious about taking Blake.

One for the statisticians, but has a player ever reached a point in his career before when he has played more international rugby matches than non-international professional rugby matches in a season/calendar year??

Adam Ashe had the dubious honour last year of facing off for Scotland against the Springboks in their backyard before having played a single game for Glasgow (I think).

by highland_scot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 1:59 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:So looking at the remaining squad:

Forwards - 21

Prop - Dickinson, ~~Reid~~, Grant, Nel, Welsh
Hooker - Ford, Brown, McInally,
Lock - Gray, Gray, better-than-Jim, Harley, ~~Jim~~
6/8 - Denton, Strauss, Ashe, ~~Wilson~~
7 - Cowan, Barclay, Hardie, ~~Blake~~

Backs - 17
9 - Laidlaw, Pyrgos, S-H-C
10 Russell, ~~Weir~~, Tonks, Jackson
12/13 - Horne, Scott, Vernon, Bennett, ~~Vernon~~
11/14 - Seymour, Lamont, Visser, Maitland
15 - Hogg

So 4 forwards and 3 backs still to go. 3 and 4 if he's looking for a 18/13 split.

See strikeouts above. Much as 2* Vernon may be handy, think we'd be better off only fielding one!

I'm still one short so the other candidates for the chop are in bold!

by Majestic83 Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:02 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Edinburgh opensides obviously just aren't rated!

I'd understand Watson missing out to Barclay, Cowan and even Hardie, but to miss out to Hugh Blake really is a big surprise.

Saying that Hugh Blake was very good against Ireland. Watson was good the short time he was on against Italy but it was when Italy were tiring.

He had a few good patches but I think 'very good' is a bit optimistic!

I thought he was one of the best players on the park against Ireland. He competed well at the breakdown, tackled well & offered himself for ball carrying and made some very good yards, more than what Watson normally makes. The thing that really impressed me was his reading of the game and the support lines he ran. Something that we haven't always had in opensides. The only other openside who has run great support lines and read the play that well is Ross Rennie.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:03 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:So looking at the remaining squad:

Forwards - 21

Prop - Dickinson, Reid, Grant, Nel, Welsh
Hooker - Ford, Brown, McInally,
Lock - Gray, Gray, better-than-Jim, Harley, Jim
6/8 - Denton, Strauss, Ashe, Wilson
7 - Cowan, Barclay, Hardie, Blake

Backs - 17
9 - Laidlaw, Pyrgos, S-H-C
10 Russell, Weir, Tonks, Jackson
12/13 - Horne, Scott, Vernon, Bennett, Vernon
11/14 - Seymour, Lamont, Visser, Maitland
15 - Hogg

So 4 forwards and 3 backs still to go. 3 and 4 if he's looking for a 18/13 split.

Easy choices for me: from the forwards I'd cut Harley (if he's not a 6 then he's nothing), Wilson, Hardie, Blake, and from the backs Weir (easiest decision Cotter will ever have to make), Jackson and Vernon.

Only tricky one is Vernon, and I'd be tempted to ditch Lamont instead.

by Majestic83 Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:06 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:The more interesting aspect of the back row for my money against Ireland was the performance of Blair Cowan at 6. I thought he went really well in the 6 jersey and in combination with an out and out 7, and Denton at 8, could give us a really mobile pack to combine with a more open style of play.

Perhaps not one for South Africa, but it could be really handy for Japan and Samoa.

I agree, thought Cowan was very good at blindside, think that position probably suits him better than being an out and out openside.
The backrow against Ireland definitely had a better balance than the one that faced Italy so will be interesting to see if Cowan gets another run at 6.

by **George Carlin** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:13 pm

Worth relaying the whole press release here - I didn't realise that these 7 released players are now no longer being considered for a RWC place but that's the clear implication.

Seven released from extended Scotland squad

Head Coach Vern Cotter today confirmed that seven players have been released from the extended Scotland squad for the Rugby World Cup 2015.

The decision follows the national team’s opening two summer Test matches against Ireland and Italy, with this Saturday’s game against the Azzuri at BT Murrayfield the last chance for the players to stake a claim for the final 31-man squad, before it’s announced the following Tuesday (1 September).

Tickets for Saturday’s Test match against Italy are priced from £5 (U18s) and £15 (adults) – U12s go FREE with a paying adult. The match is the first on the great-value 2015/16 Scotland season pass for all home games – prices from £100 (adults) and £60 (U18s).

Glasgow Warriors’ pair Mike Cusack (prop) and Rory Hughes (wing) have returned to Scotstoun having made their first outings for the national team this summer, and both starting against Italy in Saturday’s 16-12 win in Turin.

Edinburgh Rugby quintet Allan Dell (prop), Dougie Fife (wing), Damien Hoyland (wing), Ben Toolis (lock) and Hamish Watson (back-row) will rejoin the capital club, with Hoyland and Watson also adding to their international honours at the weekend.

Warriors’ hooker Kevin Bryce – who joined the squad last week as precautionary cover – has also returned to his club.

Scotland Head Coach Vern Cotter, said: “I’d like to thank the players for all their hard work throughout what has been a very tough pre-season campaign.

“They are understandably disappointed to miss out at this stage, however they have done themselves proud with their performances in training and the two Test matches.”

He added: “The nature of Test rugby is that we may need to call upon any of these players at any given time during our journey to and through what will be a very tough Rugby World Cup campaign, so we’ll continue to monitor their performances at club level very closely.”

Cotter also confirmed that back-row Josh Strauss has returned to Glasgow Warriors with the view to getting game time, before being considered for the final 31-man group.

The squad – minus Strauss – will now convene for a four-day camp at the University of St Andrews ahead of Saturday’s decisive Test match against Italy at BT Murrayfield Stadium (29 August, kick-off 3.15pm) – live on BT Sport.

EXTENDED SCOTLAND SQUAD: RUGBY WORLD CUP 2015

– FORWARDS (22) –

Prop (5):
Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 45 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) – 23 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps
Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 5 caps

Hooker (3):
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 87 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap

Second-row (5):
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 9 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Richie Gray (Castres) – 45 caps
Jim Hamilton (Saracens) – 63 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps

Back-row (9):
Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
John Barclay (Scarlets) – 44 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Hugh Blake (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap
Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 12 caps
David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 26 caps
John Hardie (Unattached) – 1 cap
Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) – 45 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps

– BACKS (18) –

Scrum-half (4):
Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks) – 70 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 7 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester) – 39 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 15 caps

Stand-off (3):
Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps) – 26 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps

Centre (5):
Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 27 caps
Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)

Back-three (6):
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps
Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 95 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sean Maitland (London Irish) – 15 caps
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) – 6 caps
Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 19 caps

by Majestic83 Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:15 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:So looking at the remaining squad:

Forwards - 21

Prop - Dickinson, Reid, Grant, Nel, Welsh
Hooker - Ford, Brown, McInally,
Lock - Gray, Gray, better-than-Jim, Harley, Jim
6/8 - Denton, Strauss, Ashe, Wilson
7 - Cowan, Barclay, Hardie, Blake

Backs - 17
9 - Laidlaw, Pyrgos, S-H-C
10 Russell, Weir, Tonks, Jackson
12/13 - Horne, Scott, Dunbar, Bennett, Vernon
11/14 - Seymour, Lamont, Visser, Maitland
15 - Hogg

So 4 forwards and 3 backs still to go. 3 and 4 if he's looking for a 18/13 split.

The ones I think that wont make it are the ones in bold. It has initially been talked about a 18/13 split but then I have read Big Vern is now looking at a 17/14 split. That's what I'd go for. Would love Dunbar to be fully fit and make the squad but I think he isn't going to be quite ready and wont make it. If he does make it I would drop Vernon as both Horne and Scott have upped their performances in recent weeks where as Vernon has been ok but has made some mistakes.
Would take Jackson as Russell's back up. Jackson looked sharp against Ireland and with all three 9s being good kickers at goal the reliance on Jackson bringing his goal kicking boots isn't as vital. Tonks was poor against Italy and wasn't that impressed by him against Ireland. Weir wasn't great against Italy either.

by cakeordeath Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:15 pm

I personally feel, Watson and Cusack should have had another chance this Saturday. Watson made an impact off the bench and Cusack was hard done to, another day, another ref it could have been different.

by Weegie Wizard Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:16 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:So looking at the remaining squad:

Forwards - 21

Prop - Dickinson, Reid, Grant, Nel, Welsh
Hooker - Ford, Brown, McInally,
Lock - Gray, Gray, better-than-Jim, Harley, ~~Jim~~
6/8 - Denton, Strauss, ~~Ashe~~, Wilson
7 - Cowan, Barclay, Hardie, ~~Blake~~

Backs - 17
9 - Laidlaw, Pyrgos, S-H-C
10 Russell, ~~Weir~~, ~~Tonks~~, Jackson
12/13 - Horne, Scott, Dunbar, Bennett, ~~Vernon~~
11/14 - Seymour, Lamont, Visser, Maitland
15 - Hogg

So 4 forwards and 3 backs still to go. 3 and 4 if he's looking for a 18/13 split.

That's how I think we'll end up. With the bold guys being decided by how many backs he wants to take.

by cakeordeath Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:19 pm

cakeordeath wrote:I personally feel, Watson and Cusack should have had another chance this Saturday. Watson made an impact off the bench and Cusack was hard done to, another day, another ref it could have been different.

but then I thought Dell deserved a shot, so what do I know

by **RDW** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:19 pm

The Struass farce continues - he's been released back to Glasgow to give himself some proper gametime, so he won't even be training with Scotland for the next few weeks!

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:20 pm

Majestic83 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:So looking at the remaining squad:

Forwards - 21

Prop - Dickinson, Reid, Grant, Nel, Welsh
Hooker - Ford, Brown, McInally,
Lock - Gray, Gray, better-than-Jim, Harley, Jim
6/8 - Denton, Strauss, Ashe, Wilson
7 - Cowan, Barclay, Hardie, Blake

Backs - 17
9 - Laidlaw, Pyrgos, S-H-C
10 Russell, Weir, Tonks, Jackson
12/13 - Horne, Scott, Dunbar, Bennett, Vernon
11/14 - Seymour, Lamont, Visser, Maitland
15 - Hogg

So 4 forwards and 3 backs still to go. 3 and 4 if he's looking for a 18/13 split.

The ones I think that wont make it are the ones in bold. It has initially been talked about a 18/13 split but then I have read Big Vern is now looking at a 17/14 split. That's what I'd go for. Would love Dunbar to be fully fit and make the squad but I think he isn't going to be quite ready and wont make it. If he does make it I would drop Vernon as both Horne and Scott have upped their performances in recent weeks where as Vernon has been ok but has made some mistakes.
Would take Jackson as Russell's back up. Jackson looked sharp against Ireland and with all three 9s being good kickers at goal the reliance on Jackson bringing his goal kicking boots isn't as vital. Tonks was poor against Italy and wasn't that impressed by him against Ireland. Weir wasn't great against Italy either.

+1 Although I think as a pairing Horne and Vernon are very effective. I'd almost be tempted to put them in against Samoa or SA so they can put some big hits in.

by **George Carlin** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:21 pm

Weegie Wizard wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:So looking at the remaining squad:

Forwards - 21

Prop - Dickinson, Reid, Grant, Nel, Welsh
Hooker - Ford, Brown, McInally,
Lock - Gray, Gray, better-than-Jim, Harley, ~~Jim~~
6/8 - Denton, Strauss, ~~Ashe~~, Wilson
7 - Cowan, Barclay, Hardie, ~~Blake~~

Backs - 17
9 - Laidlaw, Pyrgos, S-H-C
10 Russell, ~~Weir~~, ~~Tonks~~, Jackson
12/13 - Horne, Scott, Dunbar, Bennett, ~~Vernon~~
11/14 - Seymour, Lamont, Visser, Maitland
15 - Hogg

So 4 forwards and 3 backs still to go. 3 and 4 if he's looking for a 18/13 split.

That's how I think we'll end up. With the bold guys being decided by how many backs he wants to take.

I wouldn't be upset if that was the squad.

We are making large assumptions about Maitland and Dunbar's fitness, though, but hey - we don't know any better at present.

If I was Richie Vernon, I would keep my boots by the front door this autumn.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:24 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:The Strauss farce continues - he's been released back to Glasgow to give himself some proper gametime, so he won't even be training with Scotland for the next few weeks!

Whilst he's a very good player, Cotter really is going out on a limb for him. Next World Cup we'll have to set-up some non-cap games for the squad, so that our "non-organic" [thanks GC] players can get some game time.

by **George Carlin** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:28 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:The Strauss farce continues - he's been released back to Glasgow to give himself some proper gametime, so he won't even be training with Scotland for the next few weeks!

Whilst he's a very good player, Cotter really is going out on a limb for him. Next World Cup we'll have to set-up some non-cap games for the squad, so that our "non-organic" [thanks GC] players can get some game time.

Absolutely.

Will be an excellent chance for players that are Suddenly World Class Without Having Played Recently (Gilchrist, Barclay, Blake).

by Weegie Wizard Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:40 pm

I'm going to assume Strauss will make the squad and ask - does anyone think Strauss will let us down? He and Jonny Gray are the 2 players we can rely on to play well and I can't wait to see him in a Scotland top. That one of his first games will be against the Boks makes it even better.

He has been training with the squad over the summer and he knows the team from the last 3yrs with the Warriors. To put Ashe or Wilson in ahead of him would be madness. He needs games and he can't play in the warm ups. Certainly not ideal but better that he is up to pace than caught cold in the proper games and doesn't play as well as we all know he can.

Also think Lamont is due credit so far as he seems to be playing himself into the squad. 100 caps looking likely

by EWT Spoons Mon 24 Aug 2015, 3:01 pm

I have to agree with the Lamont chat. He played pretty well against Ireland and given we have a distinct lack of wingers, especially now Hoyland, Hughes and Fife have been sent home, then I think he’s pretty much a shoe in to be included in the squad.

I think the squad that will go will be the same as the one Maj has posted above.

I’m also pretty shocked that Watson has been sent home and blake continues in the squad. Nothing against Blake and he had a decent game against Ireland, but it’s probably worth noting we were well and truly owned at the breakdown in that game, and Watson looked lively when he came on against Italy. Not to say he’s the be all and end all, and I know Ireland are considerably better than Italy, but I thought he did enough to justify another appearance.

Plus as has been said, two TH’s is a bit of a risk. It pretty much guarantees they’ll play in every game, with one starting and the other subbed on during the match (probably around 60mins). That is unless Vern has been speaking to Solly who has convinced him Nel can play 80 mins no problem.

by cp10 Mon 24 Aug 2015, 3:06 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:

+1 Although I think as a pairing Horne and Vernon are very effective. I'd almost be tempted to put them in against Samoa or SA so they can put some big hits in.

You need to see them as combinations. Tactics will dictate what they want to do and which channel they want the carrier to attack down. Taking Dunbar out the mix you have the following;

Scott with Bennett (carrier at 12 channel) or Horne with Vernon (carrier at 13 channel).

Matt Scott finished the game at 13 with Horne at 12 which seemed to work pretty effectively as he was running better lines to Vernon and opened up gaps. So Horne 12 and Scott 13 combination could be good.

Horne and Bennett are too light weight to play together especially against SA and Samoa.

by Weegie Wizard Mon 24 Aug 2015, 3:42 pm

Assuming Dunbar doesn't make it I would take Vernon and play Horne & Vernon against Japan & USA and Scott & Bennett against Samoa & SA.

Do Samoa have any more games before it starts? I quite fancy seeing how good they look.

by Manky-Flanker Mon 24 Aug 2015, 3:48 pm

If Harley and Barclay don't start the next game, surely they can't make the final RWC squad.

With Watson dropped and Cowan apparently moving to 6, I think that would then mean Hardie and Blake will be the 7's. Cowan and Strokosch* at 6 and Denton/Strauss at 8.

(* Wilson hasn't been involved and I don't think Ashe will be considered at 6)

by Weegie Wizard Mon 24 Aug 2015, 3:54 pm

If Blake Cowan and Strokosch all make the squad I'm selling my tickets and moving to live off grid in the Highlands

by Nematode Mon 24 Aug 2015, 3:58 pm

Well I saw the game last night (it's on YouTube now) and I'd give Scotland a pass - just.

I thought the pack's physicality was outstanding. Special mention goes to John Hardie who was exceptional and should be first in line for the 7 jersey with Watson out. Also thought Cusack played well, Richie Gray too (especially on the line out and scramble defence). Also the Edinburgh front row went very well.

Adam Ashe seemed to have a tough game and might be 3rd choice 8. He just struggled to make the yards like Denton did. Jim Hamilton was quiet and didn't really have the impact of Gray in defence.

In the backs Matt Scott ran some good lines and Duncan Weir kicked his goals well. Also SHC was good up until his brain freeze about 3 mins before he got subbed.

Think this game has confirmed that we must look to attack and not just play a defensive game. We have a pack that can dominate and be physical, but must get the backs right.

by Manky-Flanker Mon 24 Aug 2015, 4:16 pm

Nematode wrote: We have a pack that can dominate and be physical, but must get the backs right.

Story of Scottish rugby for the last 15 years... Rolling Eyes

by **George Carlin** Mon 24 Aug 2015, 4:33 pm

Manky-Flanker wrote:If Harley and Barclay don't start the next game, surely they can't make the final RWC squad.

With Watson dropped and Cowan apparently moving to 6, I think that would then mean Hardie and Blake will be the 7's. Cowan and Strokosch* at 6 and Denton/Strauss at 8.

(* Wilson hasn't been involved and I don't think Ashe will be considered at 6)

As Miss Jean Brodie (RDW) made me write out 100 times, Wilson was serving out his ban and wasn't available for the past 2 games. He will surely start the next game - otherwise, what is the point of him being kept in the squad?

I am really going to lose my sh!t if Strokosch is chosen ahead of Harley, Cowan or Wilson. There is absolutely no justification for that decision. None.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 4:45 pm

Strokosch is far too slow to make an impact - if you want a tough tackling workaholic at 6 then Harley is a far better bet. Strokosch should be a really easy one for Cotter to cut.

by TJ Mon 24 Aug 2015, 5:20 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Strokosch is far too slow to make an impact - if you want a tough tackling workaholic at 6 then Harley is a far better bet. Strokosch should be a really easy one for Cotter to cut.

We need a ginger tackle monster.

by jimbopip Mon 24 Aug 2015, 6:14 pm

cakeordeath wrote:I personally feel, Watson and Cusack should have had another chance this Saturday. Watson made an impact off the bench and Cusack was hard done to, another day, another ref it could have been different.

+1 Cake Or.

But looked at another way; 2 Glasgow players dropped, 6 MFL's sent home.

You know when you look at it that way it makes a lot of sense. Whistle

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Mon 24 Aug 2015, 7:41 pm

How bad does Tonks have to be before he gets binned ?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 9:12 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:How bad does Tonks have to be before he gets binned ?

I think that Weir being hopeless has kept Tonks in the reckoning, plus Tonks was pretty handy at 10 against Ireland.

by InjuredYetAgain Mon 24 Aug 2015, 9:40 pm

Strauss to me is a concern. Yes, he is a big hairy-arsed ball carrier (if you will forgive the biology oxymoron) but he doesn't seem to be fit. The impression I got when seeing the weej on TV last season was that he just didn't last 80 minutes. When he first arrived, this could have been down to heavier pitches and a different style of rugby but those excuses doesn't wash any more.
Christ knows what Saturday's team will look like.
For all that some folk moaned when we had 4 warm ups games, in hindsight I think we actually need more to sort out permutations and to get the players fit. I know I said it before but they just looked off the pace (against Italy ffs!!)

by 123456789 Mon 24 Aug 2015, 10:29 pm

There's a loose element to our play that's been there since Robinson went, I sometimes feel the Scott Johnson era was more damaging than any other, under Robinson we were solid and hard to beat, unfortunately we also couldn't score in a brothel and therefore found it even harder to win. We needed someone to build on it rather than someone to wipe the slate clean and then defecate all over said slate in the manner of the useless Australian. Cotter's "back to basics" approach suggested there was something complicated about what was going on with Scott Johnson beforehand.
My worry with Cotter is he seems to have a preference for players who have played either in Australia or France, which means Strockosch, Cowan et al, if you look at the 40 players left getting rid of Strockosch, Tonks and Blake seem no brainers, personally I'd chuck Cowan as well as he seems to be a six and a half (and not a particularly good one) now whether you like them or not they do not suit the traditional Scottish type of play Cotter is searching for which means Hardie makes the cut, I was impressed by his performance yesterday and the fact he's staked his entire career has won me round.
Of the five that remain to cull there will almost certainly be two number 8s that go, leaving a race between Denton, Strauss, Ashe and Wilson. Wilson is almost the least versatile and also probably the most lightweight meaning he'll probably miss out, the last three have obvious detractions and positives; Denton is powerful but can't pass and seemingly won't ruck (or vice versa depending on each match), Ashe is intelligent but inexperienced and relatively lightweight and finally Strauss will never have pulled on a Scotland shirt before but is probably the best and carries immense leadership qualities. Personally I'd take Strauss and Ashe, Ashe will be brilliant against the likes of Japan and the USA and his pace and work ethic could be more valuable against the likes of Samoa and South Africa in the latter minutes. If you consider Harley as a second row/back row as Cotter does then that leaves a three way battle between Hamilton, Denton and Harley for the last place, in that scenario I'd take Denton and Harley, Denton's dynamism and Harley's disruptive ability out does whatever Hamilton brings to the table, furthermore both Harley and Denton can do a short term patch up job in the second row and Hamilton is within three hours of wherever Scotland are playing if he needs to be called up. That means we are left with a forward squad of:

Grant, Dickinson, Welsh, Nel, Reid, Ford, Brown, MacInally, Gray, Gray, Gilchrist, Harley, Denton, Strauss, Hardie, Ashe, Barclay.

In the backs I'd leave out Tonks and Weir (I'm in the Weir camp in the Weir Vs Jackson debate but he needs regular game time not high pressure world cup games) as a given, then leaving:

Laidlaw (unfortunately), Pyrgos, Hidalgo-Clyne, Russell, Jackson, Horne, Seymour, Maitland, Lamont Visser, Scott, Bennett, Dunbar/Vernon, Hogg.

And finally a best XV of:

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Nel
4. Gray
5. Gray
6. Harley
7. Barclay
8. Strauss
9. Pyrgos (he brings a healthy mix of the other two)
10. Russell
11. Maitland
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

16. Grant
17. Brown
18. Welsh
19. Gilchrist
20. Ashe
21. Hidalgo-Clyne
22. Scott
23. Lamont

And finally, based on the length and content guess how bored I am at the moment? And find the common denominator of everyone behind the front row in the starting XV.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 24 Aug 2015, 10:35 pm

InjuredYetAgain wrote:For all that some folk moaned when we had 4 warm ups games, in hindsight I think we actually need more to sort out permutations and to get the players fit.

Not just permutations, but in some cases to actually cap our players and to watch them in Scotland jerseys for the first time.

Our World Cup preparations are certainly unique!!

by 123456789 Mon 24 Aug 2015, 10:44 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
InjuredYetAgain wrote:For all that some folk moaned when we had 4 warm ups games, in hindsight I think we actually need more to sort out permutations and to get the players fit.

Not just permutations, but in some cases to actually cap our players and to watch them in Scotland jerseys for the first time.

Our World Cup preparations are certainly unique!!

We've had to cram 4 seasons into one to be fair, in which case we had the summer tour as season one, which had mixed results but was positive with 75% win rate in which we used a lot of old experienced players, then the Autumn internationals which were very good for season two by which stage we'd cleared out all the old dead wood and settled on a new side, the six nations were season three which started with a settled side but injuries and a confidence bypass reduced us to worse than shoite and now we're in season four, the warm ups, when project players traditionally qualify for selection and the head coach flies players in from the other side of the world.

by **RDW** Tue 25 Aug 2015, 9:47 am

25 man squad being named lunchtime today.

by **George Carlin** Tue 25 Aug 2015, 10:14 am

In terms of what I think Vern may cook up (not what I would like to see), then I can see something like:

01 Grant
02 McInally
03 Nel
04 J Gray
05 Harley
06 Denton
07 Hardie
08 Wilson

09 Laidlaw
10 Russell
11 Seymour
12 Scott
13 Bennett
14 Maitland (please)
15 Hogg

16 Reid
17 Ford
18 Welsh
19 Gilchrist
20 Barclay
21 H-Clyne
22 Jackson
23 Horne/Tonks

I wouldn't be too upset with that.

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