Ireland v Wales, 29 August

First topic message reminder :

 
IRELAND v WALES
29 August 2015
KO: 14:30 local
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on Sky Sports 1/RTÉ Radio 1/IRFU Live Blog/highlights RTÉ Two (8pm

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Wayne Barnes, Luke Pearce (both England)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

122 Played 122
50 Won 66
6 Drawn 6
66 Lost 50
1,355 Points 1,445

B. Recent Form

8 August 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
21 – 35 to Ireland

14 March 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 16 to Wales

8 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
26 – 3 to Ireland

2 February 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
22 – 30 to Ireland

5 February 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
21 – 23 to Wales

8 October 2011
Regional Stadium, Wellington, New Zealand
22 – 10 to Wales

12 March 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 13 to Wales

C. Teams

IRELAND

Rob Kearney (Leinster), Dave Kearney (Leinster), Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster), Robbie Henshaw (Connacht), Keith Earls (Munster), Johnny Sexton (Leinster), Conor Murray (Munster), Jack McGrath (Leinster), Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Nathan White (Connacht), Iain Henderson (Ulster), Paul O'Connell (Toulon, CAPT), Peter O'Mahony (Munster), Jordi Murphy (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster)

Replacements: Sean Cronin (Leinster), Dave Kilcoyne (Munster), Tadhg Furlong (Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Sean O'Brien (Leinster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Paddy Jackson (Ulster), Felix Jones (Munster)

WALES

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, CAPT), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Replacements: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Paul James (Ospreys), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), James King (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Notch wrote:Italy are currently losing 43-7 to Scotland, so I think you MIGHT be able to handle them

Perhaps we will bring back Hook to give them a chance

wales606 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:I think the English may feel the full force of an irish backlash!

Really hope so!

Just get some doubt creeping into those English minds...

England can't afford to go into Fiji off the back of 2 losses, warm ups or not

Notch wrote:It's good to see those kind of clear outs getting stamped down on in general. 'Better safe than sorry' is absolutely right.

I am sorry but I disagree. It is right that there should be no choking, however, given the body position of the jackler it is impossible to clear without making contact/wrapping arms around the shoulders (which at times slip up). Further penalties of this nature will mean those clearing will be afraid to use their arms and will have to rely on the initial "hit" to dislodge a jackler, which will result in further shoulder injuries (think Bakkies Botha vs Adam Jones Lions 09)

It was not a penalty IMO

Earls had a very good game in defence, glad he is ok.

Henderson was very impressive again and is really growing in his position.
Fitz is absolutely no option at 13 or wing in my mind and i dont think that he had a very good game.
Henshaw was excellent again today and as much as i discarded Dave Kearney for the squad, i thought he had a very impressive game. On that he should be in the squad.

Tipuric for Wales was outstanding, simply everywhere and was more than deserved of the MotM.

eirebilly wrote:Earls had a very good game in defence, glad he is ok.

Henderson was very impressive again and is really growing in his position.
Fitz is absolutely no option at 13 or wing in my mind and i dont think that he had a very good game.
Henshaw was excellent again today and as much as i discarded Dave Kearney for the squad, i thought he had a very impressive game. On that he should be in the squad.

Tipuric for Wales was outstanding, simply everywhere and was more than deserved of the MotM.

I agree with most of that. Quiet-ish game from Earls. Know he has more to offer, and the players inside him didn't play well at all, so it's not exactly entirely his fault. But still... Kearney was the more dangerous wing. Some good tackles from him though, and some good takes under the high ball.

Think if we pick Earls its for games where we are going to create space for him to operate in. In really tight games like this one, someone who is a bit more of a physical runner or an auxiliary fullback is a better option.

From a welsh perspective

Positives

- we looked very physical and our fitness showed in the last 20 minutes
- Francis can scrummage for 30 minutes (still praying to the rugby gods that Lee will be fit)
- Defence very organised

Negatives

- Francis can only scrummage for 30 minutes (if lee isnt fit we are F*&*ed)
- We looked one dimensional in attack
- Webb and Biggar didnt control matters

I thought that Earls did offer himself alot myself Notch. In a game where defence was the key, i thought he should quieten a few people up on his supposed defensive inabilities.

I simply feel that Gatland, again, got his tactics right and outhtought Schmidt. Way too much kicking away of possesion from Irelandand simply not learning that if its not working, dont do it.

wales606 wrote:

Notch wrote:Italy are currently losing 43-7 to Scotland, so I think you MIGHT be able to handle them

Perhaps we will bring back Hook to give them a chance

That might work or we could throw it away and select Jarvis and Priestland?

Ireland lose at home. Doesn't look good. England at home next week with a point to prove after the dross against France. Should be a cracker.

Smashed em.

Epic Welsh scrum.

Gwlad wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:I think the English may feel the full force of an irish backlash!

Really hope so!

Just get some doubt creeping into those English minds...

England can't afford to go into Fiji off the back of 2 losses, warm ups or not

Fiji are going to be a big feature in the pool stages. They are a good team with plenty of star players at the moment. Certainly the pick of the Pacific Islander nations at the moment.

Blimey, well done Wales. I reckon the "Group of Death" now looks even worse - thanks for that.

Shifty wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Notch wrote:Italy are currently losing 43-7 to Scotland, so I think you MIGHT be able to handle them

Perhaps we will bring back Hook to give them a chance

That might work or we could throw it away and select Jarvis and Priestland?

I would imagine both Priestland and Jarvis will feature next week mate

Wales will be pleased with the win. However both teams were limited going forward and both lack any real direction or attacking threat. Defense was good but neither team are going to be setting alarm bells off from their competitors.

wales606 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:I think the English may feel the full force of an irish backlash!

Really hope so!

Just get some doubt creeping into those English minds...

Will we have any doubt's when we face Ireland.

Ireland was deffo the worst team today.

I would say Wales was at least 50-60% better.

So i don't think we will worry too much about Ireland.

Wales on the other hand? On that game today we will be looking at them more closely.

Remember - that Irish team only had about seven players of the first team starting today. Wales had their starting team pretty much, with the exception of Bradley Davies and possibly Alex Cuthbert. So it would make sense that Wales looked the better team.

Also, Ireland beat England in the last game, so I would say you have plenty to worry about.

Very confident posts by the England fans there.

After the way England played against France I would be very worried about playing Ireland next week.

It's a meaningless game against Ireland, so wholly illogical to be worried about it.

Duty281 wrote:It's a meaningless game against Ireland, so wholly illogical to be worried about it.

No, it has lots of meaning.

Losing is unthinkable. Two losses on the trot with Fiji coming to town. Better hope it pi55es down.

It doesn't really have any meaning.

Gwlad wrote:

Duty281 wrote:It's a meaningless game against Ireland, so wholly illogical to be worried about it.

No, it has lots of meaning.

Losing is unthinkable. Two losses on the trot with Fiji coming to town. Better hope it pi55es down.

It has no meaning - two losses in a row with the Fiji game upcoming is hardly a worry, if England lose of course.

And I don't hope it p!sses down either; hopefully a dry day so England's explosive backs can work on their cohesion more.

Gwlad wrote:

Duty281 wrote:It's a meaningless game against Ireland, so wholly illogical to be worried about it.

No, it has lots of meaning.

Losing is unthinkable. Two losses on the trot with Fiji coming to town. Better hope it pi55es down.

I agree, England losing to Ireland in their last game at home before they host the RWC would be hugely worrying.

If Wales lose to Italy at home in two weeks time, I would be very worried.


Wales played well today, still plenty to do in camp before the tournament, line out needs a bit of work...! We were lucky to beat a very good Irish team. Ireland will have learned a lot about themselves in this game and will be a far better side for it.

wrfc1980 wrote:Wales will be pleased with the win. However both teams were limited going forward and both lack any real direction or attacking threat. Defense was good but neither team are going to be setting alarm bells off from their competitors.

Fair enough, but Wales ground out a slim win and managed the game out in the end, huge step for us against a strong side mooted to be going all the way. Bearing in mind we will face that prospect against possibly both Eng and Aus I am pleased with the result. in tournament rugby who gives a s%^t about the performance.

Ireland are ranked number two in the world for good reason, they are six nations champions for a good reason too. They have a blwdi good squad and they seriously pushed Wales today.

That was the type of game both teams needed, very much a pressure match. No one gave an inch.

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are ranked number two in the world for good reason, they are six nations champions for a good reason too. They have a blwdi good squad and they seriously pushed Wales today.

So why would it be worrying if England lost to them?

Who would that thought the Scotland vs Italy match would be an exciting match and the Wales vs Ireland match an error ridden snooze feast.

Duty281 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are ranked number two in the world for good reason, they are six nations champions for a good reason too. They have a blwdi good squad and they seriously pushed Wales today.

So why would it be worrying if England lost to them?

Because England would go into hosting a home RWC on the back of 2 losses and facing a strong Fiji side who will smell an opportunity

It aint rocket science

Conversely England sneak a win v Ireland then mentally they are in a very good place

That also aint rocket science

Once you play the first game of the World Cup, these games don't mean anything tbh.

Notch wrote:Once you play the first game of the World Cup, these games don't mean anything tbh.

Of course they dont but losing to both France and ireland in a warm up phase dis not the foundation England need, next weekend is a must win for both sides. Will be a huge game.

Gwlad wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are ranked number two in the world for good reason, they are six nations champions for a good reason too. They have a blwdi good squad and they seriously pushed Wales today.

So why would it be worrying if England lost to them?

Because England would go into hosting a home RWC on the back of 2 losses and facing a strong Fiji side who will smell an opportunity

It aint rocket science

Conversely England sneak a win v Ireland then mentally they are in a very good place

That also aint rocket science

Well I was more querying the idea that, if Ireland are the second best team in the world and are the best team in the Northern Hemisphere, why would England be so worried about losing to them? Surely it would be expected?!

And you're overrating the mental aspect. England did beat Ireland in a warm-up in 2011, and had a woeful tournament. England lost to France in a warm-up in 2003, and won the tournament.

More recently, Wales lost eight games in a row and still won the Six Nations title in 2013.

2 losses are very little these days. England lost two in a row at Twickers in 2014, and subsequently beat Fiji and Australia in consecutive games.

England-Ireland has no relevance - it ain't rocket science!

Duty281 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are ranked number two in the world for good reason, they are six nations champions for a good reason too. They have a blwdi good squad and they seriously pushed Wales today.

So why would it be worrying if England lost to them?

If England put out another full strength side and lose to Ireland at twickenham I think would show to the rest of the World that England are not as a good a team as we all thought they were.

Duty281 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are ranked number two in the world for good reason, they are six nations champions for a good reason too. They have a blwdi good squad and they seriously pushed Wales today.

So why would it be worrying if England lost to them?

Because England would go into hosting a home RWC on the back of 2 losses and facing a strong Fiji side who will smell an opportunity

It aint rocket science

Conversely England sneak a win v Ireland then mentally they are in a very good place

That also aint rocket science

Well I was more querying the idea that, if Ireland are the second best team in the world and are the best team in the Northern Hemisphere, why would England be so worried about losing to them? Surely it would be expected?!

And you're overrating the mental aspect. England did beat Ireland in a warm-up in 2011, and had a woeful tournament. England lost to France in a warm-up in 2003, and won the tournament.

More recently, Wales lost eight games in a row and still won the Six Nations title in 2013.

2 losses are very little these days. England lost two in a row at Twickers in 2014, and subsequently beat Fiji and Australia in consecutive games.

England-Ireland has no relevance - it ain't rocket science!

Yes it does. Though ultimately this is an issue of opinion so well have to agree to differ

Perhaps what i am really driving at is management. Lancaster is already under huge pressure having lost to France, England just dropped below Wales in the rankings and his selections are raising eyebrows. he is about to host an RWC and his opener is again a team that the likes of George Smith believe will take one of the big boys in the group.
IMO he needs the win to settle the team before the curtain goes up. Getting that win, against the top NH side is a huge boost. Frankly i think England may come unstuck…the pack looked pedestrian v France and I think the centre situation is just waiting to bite Stewie in the butt.

Gwlad wrote:

Notch wrote:Once you play the first game of the World Cup, these games don't mean anything tbh.

Of course they dont but losing to both France and ireland in a warm up phase dis not the foundation England need, next weekend is a must win  for both sides. Will be a huge game.

England lose to Ireland, beat Fiji- still give them the same chance of winning their remaining group games as they would have if they beat us. Its even less meaningful if Ireland lose- we still have five weeks before we meet France and month until the Italy game! Ireland have a nice soft opener against a Canada team that can't buy a win against other Tier 2 sides in recent times so there's not even the momentum argument.

Only thing that would have any real meaning is if one side both plays badly and loses heavily, which is unlikely.

Notch wrote:It doesn't really have any meaning.

Beating the Feckers is tidy though and good luck to England next week.

maestegmafia wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are ranked number two in the world for good reason, they are six nations champions for a good reason too. They have a blwdi good squad and they seriously pushed Wales today.

So why would it be worrying if England lost to them?

If England put out another full strength side and lose to Ireland at twickenham I think would show to the rest of the World that England are not as a good a team as we all thought they were.

Well that depends on how good you assess England's abilities to be.

If England do put a full-strength side out, I would think they would be victorious by a thin margin, but I don't think you can expect the intensities of both sides to replicate that of what they would display during the World Cup.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Remember - that Irish team only had about seven players of the first team starting today. Wales had their starting team pretty much, with the exception of Bradley Davies and possibly Alex Cuthbert. So it would make sense that Wales looked the better team.

Also, Ireland beat England in the last game, so I would say you have plenty to worry about.

And Tipuric and Baldwin

What every one need's to know is that these games are (WARM UP) GAMES. Games that are designed to play each player with in the squad to see how good they are, how fit they are and wether or not they are good enough to be in  the squad for the RWC.

There is no world ranking points on these game's so they do not matter.

I will admit Wales played very well today compared to Ireland. But lets see when the world cup starts in 2 weeks. That is when the games matter.

I am still of the impression that these games mean a lot as winning builds confidence. Yes I know its a chance to tinker experiment etc but going into the competition on the back of a couple of wins surely has to be better than going in on the back of a few losses.

Gwlad wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are ranked number two in the world for good reason, they are six nations champions for a good reason too. They have a blwdi good squad and they seriously pushed Wales today.

So why would it be worrying if England lost to them?

Because England would go into hosting a home RWC on the back of 2 losses and facing a strong Fiji side who will smell an opportunity

It aint rocket science

Conversely England sneak a win v Ireland then mentally they are in a very good place

That also aint rocket science

Well I was more querying the idea that, if Ireland are the second best team in the world and are the best team in the Northern Hemisphere, why would England be so worried about losing to them? Surely it would be expected?!

And you're overrating the mental aspect. England did beat Ireland in a warm-up in 2011, and had a woeful tournament. England lost to France in a warm-up in 2003, and won the tournament.

More recently, Wales lost eight games in a row and still won the Six Nations title in 2013.

2 losses are very little these days. England lost two in a row at Twickers in 2014, and subsequently beat Fiji and Australia in consecutive games.

England-Ireland has no relevance - it ain't rocket science!

Yes it does. Though ultimately this is an issue of opinion so well have to agree to differ

Perhaps what i am really driving at is management. Lancaster is already under huge pressure having lost to France, England just dropped below Wales in the rankings and his selections are raising eyebrows. he is about to host an RWC and his opener is again a team that the likes of George Smith believe will take one of the big boys in the group.
IMO he needs the win to settle the team before the curtain goes up. Getting that win, against the top NH side is a huge boost. Frankly i think England may come unstuck…the pack looked pedestrian v France and I think the centre situation is just waiting to bite Stewie in the butt.

Is Lancaster under huge pressure after losing to France? That would be the first I've heard of it. Barring a calamity, I think Lancaster has his job safely secured for a while yet. The RFU will know to give him time, just like they did with Woodward.

And though I pay little attention to the rankings - they're rather meaningless most of the time - I believe England are still above Wales (Oh that might of changed after today!).

I think it's highly unlikely England will be losing to Fiji, particularly at home. The last time England lost to a nation outside of the traditional SH top three at Twickenham was Wales in 2012 (I think). England are 1/33 for the game against Fiji for a reason!

majesticimperialman wrote:What every one need's to know is that these games are (WARM UP) GAMES. Games that are designed to play each player with in the squad to see how good they are, how fit they are and wether or not they are good enough to be in  the squad for the RWC.

There is no world ranking points on these game's so they do not matter.

I will admit Wales played very well today compared to Ireland. But lets see when the world cup starts in 2 weeks. That is when the games matter.

Is that true? As its mean reported that we have moved above England now in the rankings after this win.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I am still of the impression that these games mean a lot as winning builds confidence.  Yes  I know its a chance to tinker experiment etc but going into the competition on the back of a couple of wins surely has to be better than going in on the back of a few losses.

Yeah, but so long as you win your first real game it's all forgotten about. Last World Cup Ireland lost four consecutive warm-up games with very poor performances then went and knocked over Australia in the SH. I don't mean to belabour the point but these are about 1) match sharpness/match fitness and 2) narrowing down the squad

Notch,

yeah agreed and for us we are lucky enough to have Uruguay (no disrespect) so no matter what had happened we should be ok for the win I just think we need the winning mentality etc.

Well, Wales have historically been more swingy in other teams in terms of when they get on a good run they think they're invincible or when they lose a few games their heads go down.

For Ireland, until recently, our last game has never been a guide to how we'll play in our next. For me, this was about getting minutes to certain players and finding out about them- and we have found out a few things. It would be good to finish the warm-ups with a win but seeing Canada getting thrashed by the USA recently and Italy getting thrashed by Scotland today gives me confidence we have enough games that we look like strong favourites for in our group to build momentum into that France game... so I'm not going to be very bothered if we lose narrowly next week.

So long as we aren't awful and get hammered, we look to be in good shape.

Duty281 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are ranked number two in the world for good reason, they are six nations champions for a good reason too. They have a blwdi good squad and they seriously pushed Wales today.

So why would it be worrying if England lost to them?

Because England would go into hosting a home RWC on the back of 2 losses and facing a strong Fiji side who will smell an opportunity

It aint rocket science

Conversely England sneak a win v Ireland then mentally they are in a very good place

That also aint rocket science

Well I was more querying the idea that, if Ireland are the second best team in the world and are the best team in the Northern Hemisphere, why would England be so worried about losing to them? Surely it would be expected?!

And you're overrating the mental aspect. England did beat Ireland in a warm-up in 2011, and had a woeful tournament. England lost to France in a warm-up in 2003, and won the tournament.

More recently, Wales lost eight games in a row and still won the Six Nations title in 2013.

2 losses are very little these days. England lost two in a row at Twickers in 2014, and subsequently beat Fiji and Australia in consecutive games.

England-Ireland has no relevance - it ain't rocket science!

Yes it does. Though ultimately this is an issue of opinion so well have to agree to differ

Perhaps what i am really driving at is management. Lancaster is already under huge pressure having lost to France, England just dropped below Wales in the rankings and his selections are raising eyebrows. he is about to host an RWC and his opener is again a team that the likes of George Smith believe will take one of the big boys in the group.
IMO he needs the win to settle the team before the curtain goes up. Getting that win, against the top NH side is a huge boost. Frankly i think England may come unstuck…the pack looked pedestrian v France and I think the centre situation is just waiting to bite Stewie in the butt.

Is Lancaster under huge pressure after losing to France? That would be the first I've heard of it. Barring a calamity, I think Lancaster has his job safely secured for a while yet. The RFU will know to give him time, just like they did with Woodward.

And though I pay little attention to the rankings - they're rather meaningless most of the time - I believe England are still above Wales (Oh that might of changed after today!).

I think it's highly unlikely England will be losing to Fiji, particularly at home. The last time England lost to a nation outside of the traditional SH top three at Twickenham was Wales in 2012 (I think). England are 1/33 for the game against Fiji for a reason!

Awesome

Lancaaster is under no pressure

About to take a team to a home RWC. Management is coming under close scrutiny with mixed messages coming from camp

Just got pummeled in Paris

Has 2 first choice centres who have never played together before

Just selected a 4th choice centre who has played the majority of his union at 6 because he was found out in the centre

A pack that looks to be lacking in aggression

An ackowledged hooker crisis

About to face an irish team who will be smarting after todays close loss at home

Opens the RWC in 3 weeks against a strong Fiji side

Nah, no pressure.

Notch,

Maybe that's what it is, we have been such bad starters that if we went in to the cup on the back of a good few wins then hopefully hit ground running as such.

Did I say 'no pressure'? No, I did not.

Please don't make things up, it doesn't add to the discussion.

Duty281 wrote:Did I say 'no pressure'? No, I did not.

Please don't make things up, it doesn't add to the discussion.

The RFU will give him time?

They've given him 4 years and now time is up…time to produce some results.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Remember - that Irish team only had about seven players of the first team starting today. Wales had their starting team pretty much, with the exception of Bradley Davies and possibly Alex Cuthbert. So it would make sense that Wales looked the better team.

Also, Ireland beat England in the last game, so I would say you have plenty to worry about.

Just wanted to be clear - I am talking about if we meet in the World Cup, not the warm up match.

Duty281 wrote:Did I say 'no pressure'? No, I did not.

Please don't make things up, it doesn't add to the discussion.

nor does this little tantrum

grow up

Gwlad wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Did I say 'no pressure'? No, I did not.

Please don't make things up, it doesn't add to the discussion.

The RFU will give him time?

They've given him 4 years and now time is up…time to produce some results.

Well, barring a calamity (which, I imagine, would be an exit in the group stage), they will give him time.

He has a contract until 2020, I believe.