Ireland v Wales, 29 August

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IRELAND v WALES
29 August 2015
KO: 14:30 local
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on Sky Sports 1/RTÉ Radio 1/IRFU Live Blog/highlights RTÉ Two (8pm

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Wayne Barnes, Luke Pearce (both England)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

122 Played 122
50 Won 66
6 Drawn 6
66 Lost 50
1,355 Points 1,445

B. Recent Form

8 August 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
21 – 35 to Ireland

14 March 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 16 to Wales

8 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
26 – 3 to Ireland

2 February 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
22 – 30 to Ireland

5 February 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
21 – 23 to Wales

8 October 2011
Regional Stadium, Wellington, New Zealand
22 – 10 to Wales

12 March 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 13 to Wales

C. Teams

IRELAND

Rob Kearney (Leinster), Dave Kearney (Leinster), Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster), Robbie Henshaw (Connacht), Keith Earls (Munster), Johnny Sexton (Leinster), Conor Murray (Munster), Jack McGrath (Leinster), Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Nathan White (Connacht), Iain Henderson (Ulster), Paul O'Connell (Toulon, CAPT), Peter O'Mahony (Munster), Jordi Murphy (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster)

Replacements: Sean Cronin (Leinster), Dave Kilcoyne (Munster), Tadhg Furlong (Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Sean O'Brien (Leinster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Paddy Jackson (Ulster), Felix Jones (Munster)

WALES

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, CAPT), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Replacements: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Paul James (Ospreys), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), James King (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Marshes wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:I think we're pretty much looking at our first choice world cup 23 this game, with a mix next week vs italy of both first 15 and fringe players.
So looking at out first choice squad I think we're going to see something like this:
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ken Owens
3. Tomas Francis
4. Alyn Wyn Jones
5. Luke Charteris
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Watburton
8. Taulupe Falateu

9. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. Hallam Amos
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Scott Baldwin, 17. Paul James, 18. Aaron Jarvis, 19. Bradley Davies, 20. Justin Tipuric, 21. Gareth Davies, 22. Gareth Anscombe, 23. Tyler Morgan

Hooker is a hard decision and could go either way though. Would love to see tipuric start at 6 to see how he works with warburton but Gats is going to stick with Lydiate which isn't an issue but i just feel going into the aussie game, a Tipuric and Warburton would be the better option up againt Pocock and Hooper.

Hallam Amos first choice now over Williams, Walker et al?

Mukian, yes my mistake, Warburton 6 and tipuric .

Liam Williams isn't going to be playing saturday, if liam is fit then he will start in the world cup. Amos is much further up the ranking than Eli Walker though and I think pip Cuthbert in Gatlands current team. Amos is still a bit raw but still fits the bill and with game time can prove to be a match day 23 squad player. I'd pick Amos personally but then again i'd probaly pick most players ahead of Cuthbert

Those championing Walker over Cuthbert - do you reckon he has the physicality to play Gatlandball?

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:I think we're pretty much looking at our first choice world cup 23 this game, with a mix next week vs italy of both first 15 and fringe players.
So looking at out first choice squad I think we're going to see something like this:
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ken Owens
3. Tomas Francis
4. Alyn Wyn Jones
5. Luke Charteris
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Watburton
8. Taulupe Falateu

9. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. Hallam Amos
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Scott Baldwin, 17. Paul James, 18. Aaron Jarvis, 19. Bradley Davies, 20. Justin Tipuric, 21. Gareth Davies, 22. Gareth Anscombe, 23. Tyler Morgan

Hooker is a hard decision and could go either way though. Would love to see tipuric start at 6 to see how he works with warburton but Gats is going to stick with Lydiate which isn't an issue but i just feel going into the aussie game, a Tipuric and Warburton would be the better option up againt Pocock and Hooper.

I'd start Baldwin just because he's the man in possession and really stepped up to the mark and would have Ball over Davies on the bench.  Other than that I think that's pretty much what we will see.

Though as he cuts the squad to the required 31 after this game I wonder if M Morgan will get a bench spot.

You might be right about Morgan cause lots of people are saying that he has impressed gatland a lot in the training camps. Im still not 100% keen on him though. He could be perfect against uruguay but im scared he will be vulnerbale against australia, england and even fiji. I would pick Ball but i did feel a bit disappointed by him against Ireland because it was a big chance for him to pressure Charteris but he didn't. I think Gats will put Bradley on the bench purly because he hasn't had a chance yet and could still have something to offer. I think it's a battle between Ball and Davies for the last second row spot in the squad because im staritng to think that King is penciled in already to cover as a fourth second row; if Bradley does play and makes a descent impact then i wouldn't be suprised to see Gatland drop Ball.

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:
In the world of GWlad.

Don't forget the lovely analysis done by that fiercely anti-Irish rugby publication the42.ie

Elbows a go go

Who mentioned anything about 'anti-Irish'? Rather odd that you raise the question of xenophobia. Or maybe not.

Marshes wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:I think we're pretty much looking at our first choice world cup 23 this game, with a mix next week vs italy of both first 15 and fringe players.
So looking at out first choice squad I think we're going to see something like this:
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ken Owens
3. Tomas Francis
4. Alyn Wyn Jones
5. Luke Charteris
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Watburton
8. Taulupe Falateu

9. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. Hallam Amos
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Scott Baldwin, 17. Paul James, 18. Aaron Jarvis, 19. Bradley Davies, 20. Justin Tipuric, 21. Gareth Davies, 22. Gareth Anscombe, 23. Tyler Morgan

Hooker is a hard decision and could go either way though. Would love to see tipuric start at 6 to see how he works with warburton but Gats is going to stick with Lydiate which isn't an issue but i just feel going into the aussie game, a Tipuric and Warburton would be the better option up againt Pocock and Hooper.

Hallam Amos first choice now over Williams, Walker et al?

Williams (nor Lee) won't be available until the Uruguay game at earlieast and Amos has been picked ahead of Walker in the past and is more versatile so yeah I guess he is ahead of him.

Jh,

Yeah agreed about King getting utility sopt and Ihuess my reasoning behind putting Morgan on the bench can be used about Davies as well.

PhilBB wrote:

Marshes wrote:

You think Warburton is above attempting to play a potential advantage if he can get it past the ref, unlike POM (or any other god-fearing player)?

2+2 in this case is a 7

Not at all, but the point made was the systemic play of the Irish at this area. It's why they struggle with Wayne Barnes but love Nigel O'wens.

And the point back was that Wales are no saints either, no need to delude yourself. Wales are not the last bastions of honour in a tide of other barbaric unions, the dark arts of the breakdown are in your Gwlad's team too!

I think Wales struggled with Wayne in that game too, evidenced by a yellow card for exactly the reason you are saying the Irish are guilty of, and another to boot. They just had some very solid defense and better finishing on the day (and the odd weird scrum and maul calls by Alun Wyn Barnes )

It will be interesting to see what type of team Gats selects. Will he go for his best 15 or mix in some second choices and up and comers to give them experience?

I expect all of those fit from Wales 6N match day squad who did not play last time out to be in the match day squad for this game. I would be surprised to see Anscombe covering 10 as Priestland has been back up to Biggar and played really well for the Scarlets last season whilst Anscombe stuttered for the Blues. Big choice between Ball ( who I though played well against Ireland in Cardiff) Bradley and King. Francis must be given a game, if only to tie him to Wales. I would like to see Amos also given another run as I was more impressed by him than Walker against Ireland.

I'd hope he seriously looks into playing Tipuric and Warburton. Australia will play Pocock and Hooper. Sure, play your own game but you need to adapt to the opposition. I think it could be the masterstroke vs. England too.

fa0019 wrote:I'd hope he seriously looks into playing Tipuric and Warburton. Australia will play Pocock and Hooper. Sure, play your own game but you need to adapt to the opposition. I think it could be the masterstroke vs. England too.

Worked last time

There has no doubt been occasions in the not to distant past where it would have been advisable to play Warburton and Tipuric together. Gatland won't do it if Lydiate is available (he doesn't need to be match fit). Now that we have Moriarty he certainly won't do it - it's one of my main gripes with Gatland. Aus are very good at the breakdown with either one of just Pocock or Hooper on the pitch, never mind both. We've brought back Charteris and adapted to defending opposition mauls. Now we need to adapt to the breakdown.

munkian wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I'd hope he seriously looks into playing Tipuric and Warburton. Australia will play Pocock and Hooper. Sure, play your own game but you need to adapt to the opposition. I think it could be the masterstroke vs. England too.

Worked last time

It all depends if you can get parity upfront. I think Wales can and its a gamble worth taking.

AUS managed to do it to the ABs. SA played Burger, Coetzee and Brussow vs. NZ.

Not sure of the ultimate value of this game for either side. France and Italy don't play like Wales, and we certainly don't play like England, Australia or Fiji. In that light it's about game time and looking at our own structures and tactics more than trying to change anything for the opposition.

I'm hoping Wales pick as many ball carriers across the field as possible and really give our first-up tackling a stern examination, to see how our defence handles pressure. Hasn't done so well in the first two games. Two lightweight opensides trying to win the breakdown isn't going to tell us much about how we handle the way France and Italy are going to try and physically dominate us up front.

Hope guys like Trimble and Moore are fit enough to make their case.

We also need to be able to tackle and tackle well when the other team attack us and that's where Lydiate comes in to his won and I Still think the usual 3 back rowers compliment each other so well.

I wouldn't be overly upset if he went with Tipuric and Warburton but I would be more worried on the defence side of things.

Marshes wrote:

And the point back was that Wales are no saints either, no need to delude yourself. Wales are not the last bastions of honour in a tide of other barbaric unions, the dark arts of the breakdown are in your Gwlad's team too!

I think Wales struggled with Wayne in that game too, evidenced by a yellow card for exactly the reason you are saying the Irish are guilty of, and another to boot. They just had some very solid defense and better finishing on the day (and the odd weird scrum and maul calls by Alun Wyn Barnes   )

The difference in approach to tactical cheating at the breakdown aligns Wales with Desmond Tutu to Ireland's Ernst Blofeld. Schmidt is a superb breakdown coach who has built on the illegality O'wens and others allowed Munster for years.

It doesn't work with refs who enforce the law on body weight, however. If you want further proof, look at Ireland's last 6 results against New Zealand - check the difference in scores from when O'wens refs those games to when others do.

Notch wrote:Not sure of the ultimate value of this game for either side. France and Italy don't play like Wales, and we certainly don't play like England, Australia or Fiji. In that light it's about game time and looking at our own structures and tactics more than trying to change anything for the opposition.

I'm hoping Wales pick as many ball carriers across the field as possible and really give our first-up tackling a stern examination, to see how our defence handles pressure. Hasn't done so well in the first two games. Two lightweight opensides trying to win the breakdown isn't going to tell us much about how we handle the way France and Italy are going to try and physically dominate us up front.

Hope guys like Trimble and Moore are fit enough to make their case.

I'd disagree, reckon the 2 games against Wales were a good shout for us. Wales are usually a physical team who rise to test standard rugby with ease. Hopefully they will get it right this week and show up. I have an abiding memory of how surprised our lads looked, presumably at Wales' physicality, during the QF in 2011. At one point, Donnacha O Callaghan looked like he'd seen a ghost after a Robert's crash. Having a couple of games under our belt against some uber fit, mountain climbing, desert roaming lads should do us some good going into the tournament. Particularly now, seeing as the French team look like they've eaten their Weetabix.

PhilBB wrote:

Marshes wrote:

And the point back was that Wales are no saints either, no need to delude yourself. Wales are not the last bastions of honour in a tide of other barbaric unions, the dark arts of the breakdown are in your Gwlad's team too!

I think Wales struggled with Wayne in that game too, evidenced by a yellow card for exactly the reason you are saying the Irish are guilty of, and another to boot. They just had some very solid defense and better finishing on the day (and the odd weird scrum and maul calls by Alun Wyn Barnes   )

The difference in approach to tactical cheating at the breakdown aligns Wales with Desmond Tutu to Ireland's Ernst Blofeld. Schmidt is a superb breakdown coach who has built on the illegality O'wens and others allowed Munster for years.

It doesn't work with refs who enforce the law on body weight, however. If you want further proof, look at Ireland's last 6 results against New Zealand - check the difference in scores from when O'wens refs those games to when others do.

Ah, so what you're really saying is that your claims are your opinion based on fiction. Tend to agree

Any idea when the teams are being named, from Wales point I think we need to see our first XV (or closest to it) given a run out. What sort of side are Ireland expected to put out?

PhilBB wrote:

It doesn't work with refs who enforce the law on body weight, however. If you want further proof, look at Ireland's last 6 results against New Zealand - check the difference in scores from when O'wens refs those games to when others do.

Ah in fairness, its not like Ireland have a reputation for varying performances under different referees. We're just a heap of manure when it comes to consistency vs NZ. Poite reffed us for the win v South Africa in November, can't remember who it was for the win v Australia but it wasn't Nigel either. You can hardly beat those teams with a compromised breakdown. Against England, a game in which we were acknowledged to dominate the breakdown, Joubert was Referee. Barnes is really the only referee who I'd be a bit uneasy about refereeing us, and saying that, its purely because of the Wales game. He was referee for Ireland vs France a couple of weeks before that and was grand.

bedfordwelsh wrote:We also need to be able to tackle and tackle well when the other team attack us and that's where Lydiate comes in to his won and I Still think the usual 3 back rowers compliment each other so well.

I wouldn't be overly upset if he went with Tipuric and Warburton but I would be more worried on the defence side of things.

It works well vs Ireland. It doesn't work as well against Australia, and in recent years England. That was what we were talking about.

mikey_dragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:We also need to be able to tackle and tackle well when the other team attack us and that's where Lydiate comes in to his won and I Still think the usual 3 back rowers compliment each other so well.

I wouldn't be overly upset if he went with Tipuric and Warburton but I would be more worried on the defence side of things.

It works well vs Ireland. It doesn't work as well against Australia, and in recent years England. That was what we were talking about.

We still need to be able to tackle and defend as well as both those teams are capable of playing good rugby. Like I said it wouldn't bother me if Tipuric started but I would rather the tried and tested trio start then bring Tips on if need be.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:We also need to be able to tackle and tackle well when the other team attack us and that's where Lydiate comes in to his won and I Still think the usual 3 back rowers compliment each other so well.

I wouldn't be overly upset if he went with Tipuric and Warburton but I would be more worried on the defence side of things.

It works well vs Ireland. It doesn't work as well against Australia, and in recent years England. That was what we were talking about.

We still need to be able to tackle and defend as well as both those teams are capable of playing good rugby.  Like I said it wouldn't bother me if Tipuric started but I would rather the tried and tested trio start then bring Tips on if need be.

Do we have 14 other players that don't tackle then? Lydiate has been pretty non-existent on occasions, but each of those he's lacked match fitness. I think he'll be okay going into this game. But the other games I highlighted I wouldn't pick him; he's just not a threat to the breakdown and doesn't seem to offer as much go-forward as he used to. Ospreys seem to prefer King over him as well, who let's face it is a bit average.

Hes not picked to be a threat at the breakdown he's picked for his defensive capabilities and that is what he does best, by him doing that it allows Warburton and Faletau to concentrate on their jobs more.

Warburton nor Tipuric are as good defensively as Lydiate, if Gatland wants to change the style we play then he wouldn't pick him but I doubt he will change.

Who says Lyds does,nt offer anything going forward it was his pass to bigger that got the try to beat France if Tips had done that pass people on here would still be going on about it but tend o forget what Lyds does but at the time was head lined the pass of the 6 nations .And don,t be surprised or expect Gatts to do anything you say on here its not long ago he dropped Tips right out of the match day squad against South Africa and on here there was outrage what happened Wales won Lyds played the full game and King was on the bench for a more physical presence .Whos to say he will do like wise against the big packs again .

Lydiate is a brilliant tackler, one of the best in the game. We know that there is a great balance to Lydiate/Warburton/Faletau.

I love watching Tipuric play but if my job was on the line I'd go for Lydiate.

irnbrew wrote:Who says Lyds does,nt offer anything going forward it was his pass to bigger that got the try to beat France if Tips had done that pass people on here would still be going on about it but tend o forget what Lyds does but at the time was head lined the pass of the 6 nations .And don,t be surprised or expect Gatts to do anything you say on here its not long ago he dropped Tips right out of the match day squad against South Africa and on here there was outrage what happened Wales won Lyds played the full game and King was on the bench for a more physical presence .Whos to say he will do like wise against the big packs again .

Nice single example amongst some bad grammar there. It was Webb's break too but ah well. I've no idea why people do this, especially when it doesn't address a single point previously made.

One thing I will agree with you on is what you say about Tips. I think some people seriously overhype him because he can run and pass, when his primary job is to be a menace at the breakdown.

bedfordwelsh wrote: if Gatland wants to change the style we play then he wouldn't pick him but I doubt he will change.

Pretty much what I've said in some previous posts.

kunu wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

It doesn't work with refs who enforce the law on body weight, however. If you want further proof, look at Ireland's last 6 results against New Zealand - check the difference in scores from when O'wens refs those games to when others do.

Ah in fairness, its not like Ireland have a reputation for varying performances under different referees. We're just a heap of manure when it comes to consistency vs NZ. Poite reffed us for the win v South Africa in November, can't remember who it was for the win v Australia but it wasn't Nigel either. You can hardly beat those teams with a compromised breakdown. Against England, a game in which we were acknowledged to dominate the breakdown, Joubert was Referee. Barnes is really the only referee who I'd be a bit uneasy about refereeing us, and saying that, its purely because of the Wales game. He was referee for Ireland vs France a couple of weeks before that and was grand.

No he wasn't. There were complaints about him after the match. Basically the players were saying they don't know what to expect and he is very inconsistent. Talk leading up to the Welsh match was about adapting to his interpretations.

Is the team announced today or later in the week?

profitius wrote:

kunu wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

It doesn't work with refs who enforce the law on body weight, however. If you want further proof, look at Ireland's last 6 results against New Zealand - check the difference in scores from when O'wens refs those games to when others do.

Ah in fairness, its not like Ireland have a reputation for varying performances under different referees. We're just a heap of manure when it comes to consistency vs NZ. Poite reffed us for the win v South Africa in November, can't remember who it was for the win v Australia but it wasn't Nigel either. You can hardly beat those teams with a compromised breakdown. Against England, a game in which we were acknowledged to dominate the breakdown, Joubert was Referee. Barnes is really the only referee who I'd be a bit uneasy about refereeing us, and saying that, its purely because of the Wales game. He was referee for Ireland vs France a couple of weeks before that and was grand.

No he wasn't. There were complaints about him after the match. Basically the players were saying they don't know what to expect and he is very inconsistent. Talk leading up to the Welsh match was about adapting to his interpretations.

Agreed, how he didn't send off Pape was farcical. Barnes is consistently inconsistent.

mikey_dragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote: if Gatland wants to change the style we play then he wouldn't pick him but I doubt he will change.

Pretty much what I've said in some previous posts.

MD,

Horses for courses I guess, I am a huge Lydiate fan and think he is seriously under rated but that's all down to the defensive game plan that Gatland wants to play and what he feels suits us best.

I think even Lydiate himself would know that if Gatland changes his style or wants a bigger ball carrying threat then he might not fit the plan, that's where I think Moriarty might come into the plans a bit more. Not necessarily this world cup but certainly in the future.

Lydiate seems to have varied his game more since joining the Ospreys - he is certainly carrying more and his setup of Biggar's try against France was lovely.

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

munkian wrote:We don't know if Sanjay will be fit or not yet.

Amos is more versatile than Walker too.

Yep.

I thought it was strange to see some Ospreys fans championing Walker whilst claiming Amos harmed his chances on the back of that Ireland game. Only one of them goes for me, and it's definitely Amos.

You must have been watching a different game then. Eli Walker put one hell of a shift in. He was solid in defence and was not to scared to run at Ireland when given the chance. Amos on the other hand looked as though the occasion had got to him. Although I still think Amos has a bright future ahead of him, and when he matures he is a Wales regular in the making, I think now is a bit too soon for him. If he is managed properly, he will be a starter at the next world cup.

You were one of the fans I had in mind when I wrote this - I read your comments at the time and couldn't agree. I still disagree. While you're correct about Walker there you couldn't be more incorrect about Amos; you also fail to acknowledge how Walker fluffed a try-scoring opportunity created by Amos - also Amos later had a hand in Tips' try. I don't see how it's too soon for one and not the other? They're both capable of going, but if only one can go then on the back of just that game it's Amos. If it's form over the whole season, it's Amos.

I just reckon Eli looked a little bit  more assured of himself than Hallam did. I cannot quite put my finger on it, but that is just how I saw it. The only reason I could give is, that Eli Walker has played in more higher profile games for Ospreys than Hallam Amos has for Dragons. What with Ospreys play off games and top tier European games, ability wise I would say there is not much between them, but Eli just looked a little less overawed. But that's just my opinion, hopefully if he is managed correctly Hallam could become a mainstay in the Welsh set-up in the years to come.

That's nonsense. You're wrong, but could it be that Walker also wasn't moved to 15 when he has played 11 all season? Does that make Baker a better player than Faletau then?

mikey_dragon wrote:

irnbrew wrote:Who says Lyds does,nt offer anything going forward it was his pass to bigger that got the try to beat France if Tips had done that pass people on here would still be going on about it but tend o forget what Lyds does but at the time was head lined the pass of the 6 nations .And don,t be surprised or expect Gatts to do anything you say on here its not long ago he dropped Tips right out of the match day squad against South Africa and on here there was outrage what happened Wales won Lyds played the full game and King was on the bench for a more physical presence .Whos to say he will do like wise against the big packs again .

Nice single example amongst some bad grammar there. It was Webb's break too but ah well. I've no idea why people do this, especially when it doesn't address a single point previously made.

One thing I will agree with you on is what you say about Tips. I think some people seriously overhype him because he can run and pass, when his primary job is to be a menace at the breakdown.

Agree.

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

munkian wrote:We don't know if Sanjay will be fit or not yet.

Amos is more versatile than Walker too.

Yep.

I thought it was strange to see some Ospreys fans championing Walker whilst claiming Amos harmed his chances on the back of that Ireland game. Only one of them goes for me, and it's definitely Amos.

You must have been watching a different game then. Eli Walker put one hell of a shift in. He was solid in defence and was not to scared to run at Ireland when given the chance. Amos on the other hand looked as though the occasion had got to him. Although I still think Amos has a bright future ahead of him, and when he matures he is a Wales regular in the making, I think now is a bit too soon for him. If he is managed properly, he will be a starter at the next world cup.

You were one of the fans I had in mind when I wrote this - I read your comments at the time and couldn't agree. I still disagree. While you're correct about Walker there you couldn't be more incorrect about Amos; you also fail to acknowledge how Walker fluffed a try-scoring opportunity created by Amos - also Amos later had a hand in Tips' try. I don't see how it's too soon for one and not the other? They're both capable of going, but if only one can go then on the back of just that game it's Amos. If it's form over the whole season, it's Amos.

I just reckon Eli looked a little bit  more assured of himself than Hallam did. I cannot quite put my finger on it, but that is just how I saw it. The only reason I could give is, that Eli Walker has played in more higher profile games for Ospreys than Hallam Amos has for Dragons. What with Ospreys play off games and top tier European games, ability wise I would say there is not much between them, but Eli just looked a little less overawed. But that's just my opinion, hopefully if he is managed correctly Hallam could become a mainstay in the Welsh set-up in the years to come.

That's nonsense. You're wrong, but could it be that Walker also wasn't moved to 15 when he has played 11 all season? Does that make Baker a better player than Faletau then?

heh.

maestegmafia wrote:Is the team announced today or later in the week?

Thursday Maes

Joe is naming his next Monday... still wondering about Payne or Earls, the over-thinking c**t!

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

munkian wrote:We don't know if Sanjay will be fit or not yet.

Amos is more versatile than Walker too.

Yep.

I thought it was strange to see some Ospreys fans championing Walker whilst claiming Amos harmed his chances on the back of that Ireland game. Only one of them goes for me, and it's definitely Amos.

You must have been watching a different game then. Eli Walker put one hell of a shift in. He was solid in defence and was not to scared to run at Ireland when given the chance. Amos on the other hand looked as though the occasion had got to him. Although I still think Amos has a bright future ahead of him, and when he matures he is a Wales regular in the making, I think now is a bit too soon for him. If he is managed properly, he will be a starter at the next world cup.

You were one of the fans I had in mind when I wrote this - I read your comments at the time and couldn't agree. I still disagree. While you're correct about Walker there you couldn't be more incorrect about Amos; you also fail to acknowledge how Walker fluffed a try-scoring opportunity created by Amos - also Amos later had a hand in Tips' try. I don't see how it's too soon for one and not the other? They're both capable of going, but if only one can go then on the back of just that game it's Amos. If it's form over the whole season, it's Amos.

I just reckon Eli looked a little bit  more assured of himself than Hallam did. I cannot quite put my finger on it, but that is just how I saw it. The only reason I could give is, that Eli Walker has played in more higher profile games for Ospreys than Hallam Amos has for Dragons. What with Ospreys play off games and top tier European games, ability wise I would say there is not much between them, but Eli just looked a little less overawed. But that's just my opinion, hopefully if he is managed correctly Hallam could become a mainstay in the Welsh set-up in the years to come.

That's nonsense. You're wrong, but could it be that Walker also wasn't moved to 15 when he has played 11 all season? Does that make Baker a better player than Faletau then?

heh.

Amos wasn't playing in the position he'd played most of the season whereas Walker was.

Baker has played more playoff games and top tier European games than Faletau, but that doesn't make him a better player.

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Is the team announced today or later in the week?

Thursday Maes

Cheers mate

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Amos wasn't playing in the position he'd played most of the season whereas Walker was.

Baker has played more playoff games and top tier European games than Faletau, but that doesn't make him a better player.

Again I will give you a heh.

Can you please show me where I have said Eli Walker is better than Hallam Amos ?

All I have said is that Hallam looked more over awed with the situation than Eli Walker. I said I cannot put my finger on it, but it might have to do with Walker playing a lot more high profile games for Ospreys than Hallam as for Dragons, which is true.

I did not mention Dan Baker or Toby Faletau. Anyway, Toby Faletau has played in a lot more pressure games for Wales than Dan Baker has for the Ospreys, so going by that it is totally moot when comparing the two no 8's.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Amos wasn't playing in the position he'd played most of the season whereas Walker was.

Baker has played more playoff games and top tier European games than Faletau, but that doesn't make him a better player.

Again I will give you a heh.

Can you please show me where I have said Eli Walker is better than Hallam Amos ?

All I have said is that Hallam looked more over awed with the situation than Eli Walker. I said I cannot put my finger on it, but it might have to do with Walker playing a lot more high profile games for Ospreys than Hallam as for Dragons, which is true.

I did not mention Dan Baker or Toby Faletau. Anyway, Toby Faletau has played in a lot more pressure games for Wales than Dan Baker has for the Ospreys, so going by that it is totally moot when comparing the two no 8's.

And to be fair nobody said that you said that.

They're disagreeing with you is all. I think your post is slightly nonsecal, but as a dragons fan I can't see past Amos going so I would think that. So far only one neutral has spoken out and they seemed to agree with our point of view. So the reason you can't put your finger on it is because you've been on too much drip at Cardiff university hospital (I hope you're feeling better by the way...).

I think they were trying to compare like-for-like when you mentioned higher profile club game exposure. Challenge cup isn't exactly weak IMO. And I expected Baker to step up - he's come a long way from his nonsecal first and novelty cap off the back of some fine Swansea Rfc form... But he was anonymous.

Risca said that because I based my point of view on Walker playing more high profile games than Amos, then that should make Baker better than Faletau, then Luckless agreed with him, that sounds to me as if I was making out that Eli was better than Hallam does it not ?

For the record I think they are about on par with each other, it's just that Eli has more experience with dealing with high pressure due to playing in the top tier European games in front of big crowds and playing in the playoffs with Ospreys.

And lets be honest, and this is not a dig, but come the business end of the season, the pressure is usually off Dragons as they never have anything of note to play for. A situation that I hope will change next season and they have a real chance at a playoff or a top six finish.

When was Walker last fit enough to play in a 'high profile' game ?

munkian wrote:When was Walker last fit enough to play in a 'high profile' game ?

He has played in top tier European games. One would still be more than Hallam Amos. Anyway, this is going away from the point, I do not think one is better than the other, I think they are both on a par with each other at the moment.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Amos wasn't playing in the position he'd played most of the season whereas Walker was.

Baker has played more playoff games and top tier European games than Faletau, but that doesn't make him a better player.

Again I will give you a heh.

Can you please show me where I have said Eli Walker is better than Hallam Amos ?

All I have said is that Hallam looked more over awed with the situation than Eli Walker. I said I cannot put my finger on it, but it might have to do with Walker playing a lot more high profile games for Ospreys than Hallam as for Dragons, which is true.

Or it might have something to do with the fact that Amos was being asked to play full back after playing wing most of the season.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Or it might have something to do with the fact that Amos was being asked to play full back after playing wing most of the season.

But we are not talking about playing bad, we are talking about the occasion getting to him a bit more, what has your position got to do with that ? Anyway, I think, when Hallam gets a little bit more experience he will be a mainstay in the Welsh side, I reckon the next world cup is the one for him, and his experience this summer will have done him no harm.

What you interpret as 'the occasion getting to him' could actually be him having to adapt to playing in a position he hadn't been playing in, and having to do it in a Test match (albeit one billed as a friendly). Considering it was only his second cap, that's quite an ask, as they say. If he'd played on the wing, these 'nerves' might magically have disappeared.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If he'd played on the wing, these 'nerves' might magically have disappeared.

I agree, if he was in his preferred position then we might not be having this conversation, but the fact is, he wasn't, and the nerves were there, for most of us to see.

The point I'm making is that just because you interpreted it as nerves, doesn't mean it was nerves.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The point I'm making is that just because you interpreted it as nerves, doesn't mean it was nerves.

Ok, fair enough, but he did look very nervous to me. Eli on the other hand did not. Nothing about ability or who is better, just who handled the occasion better.