England v Ireland, 5 September

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ENGLAND v IRELAND
5 September 2015
14:30 BST
Twickenham, London

Live on Sky Sports 1

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch judges: Romain Poite (France) Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

129 Played 129
74 Won 47
8 Drawn 8
47 Lost 74
1,484 Points 1,056

B. Recent Form

1 March 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
19 – 9 to Ireland

22 February 2014
Twickenham, London
13 – 10 to England

10 February 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
6 – 12 to England

17 March 2012
Twickenham, London
30 – 9 to England

27 August 2011
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
9 – 20 to England

19 March 2011
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
24 – 8 to Ireland

27 February 2010
Twickenham, London
16 – 20 to Ireland

C. Teams

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 38 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 22 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 15 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
09. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 48 caps)

01. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 32 caps)
02. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 23 caps)
03. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)
04. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 24 caps)
05. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 39 caps)
06. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 37 caps)
07. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 38 caps)
08. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 28 caps)

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 1 cap)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 22 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 23 caps)
20. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 18 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 22 caps)
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 30 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 1 cap)


IRELAND

01. Jack McGrath (St. Marys College/Leinster)
02. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
03. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
04. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
05. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster) (capt)
06. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
07. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
08. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

09. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
13. Jared Payne (Ulster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
15. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
20. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
23. Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)

nathan wrote:Better breakdown work today by england

By virtue of winning that one ruck just there it would have been better.

Burgess better technique there

Haha, Dawson giving the dumb bird on radio proper short thrift

Jekyll and Hyde performance from England....

At least we some cracking wingers....Watson may and nowell.

England very impressive when they kept it tight in the pack but In my opinion were too keen to get it wide at any opportunity....go wide at the right times lads.

I hate Dawson, so annoying

Warm up game or not but this game shows the importance of starting with Ford and bringing Farrell on around the 55/60 minute, in a tight game there isn't anyone else you want kicking.

Decent first 20 minutes and it went downhill from there, the intensity in these games just isn't there and too many players seemed to be saving themselves (protecting) for the world cup proper.

Notch wrote:Now it's the turn of the England back line to miss an open goal. If this isn't a try, that blown overlap will be unforgivable.

Agree - put it through the hands and almost certain try ... bad play by Owen

GeordieFalcon wrote:
England very impressive when they kept it tight in the pack to In my opinion were too keen to get it wide at any opportunity....go wide at the right times lads.

That dreadfull cut out pass by Farrell when we had a 6 on 2 a prime example.


did you enjoy wood's ball carying?

Well done England, good game for you to win although i feel they stepped off the intensity in the second half. I predicted a 12 point win for England so not far wrong.

Ireland, again completely cluess in attack and far to much kicking away of possession. Dave Kearney was the standout player for Ireland but the backline defense is almost as big an issue as the lack of attack. Earls needs to come in and play 13 due to his experience, his attacking ability and his marshaling of defensive lines. Bowe, i dont think will feature much in this RWC.

Well done England, and commiserations Ireland. Now it is almost time for the 'big one' over on BBC2 Wales .

Am I right in saying Ireland went down to 14 men when Zebo came off after 65 minutes? I don't think he was replaced

Think they brought the prop Furlong on, so were down a back

He was replaced by Tadgh Furlong.

Decent performance from England, and they got the expected victory.

The line-out was the most pleasing aspect, but the intensity that England showed in flashes at the breakdown was very good to see. Plenty of creativity amongst the backs, although it will be Lancaster's job to ensure that England are more clinical when they have the ball in the opposition 22. Scrum was a slight worry, but still 13 days to work on it!

I imagine the team that started today will be the one that starts against Fiji.

Well done England.

LT
I know I've been very critical of the packs carrying etc. They proved me wrong in the first half..... I thought they were excellent. They kept it tight got over the gainline sucked in defenders then when it was right they put it wide and really gave Ireland all sorts of problems.

Why were they not so disciplined in the second half. Do the same.....

On that form they will trouble anyone. More than I really gave them credit for....but the second half "need" to just get it wide and open it up just went wrong.

Spots and spats of good rugby by both sides.

England's scrum looks like something for Wales and Australia to target. Lost two against the head and didn't get a shove on. Once.

Thought a few surprising faces showed up well, Wigglesqorth looked very good, Dave Keaney looked very threatening. Tom Wood looked in the best form I have seen him in a very long time.

Some other players hit the form their reputation, Rory Best, Launchbury too.

For Ireland;

The Good
Dave Kearney, Jared Payne, Jamie Heaslip, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Jack McGrath
The Rusty But I expect to Improve
Simon Zebo, Robbie Henshaw, Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray, Paul O'Connell, Devin Toner, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony
The Bad
Tommy Bowe

It's really only Bowe I have serious reservations over. I think the centre partnership showed why they are first choice- they are both good hard runners, they both pass the ball very well, they are so nailed on you can hang your hat on it. The pack over all, not aggressive enough, not physical enough, looks off the pace. Individual errors in defence and a passive defensive system were major worries when we didn't have the ball which just makes you wonder about Trimble and how much he could add in that department.

maestegmafia wrote:Spots and spats of good rugby by both sides.

England's scrum looks like something for Wales and Australia to target. Lost two against the head and didn't get a shove on. Once.

Thought a few surprising faces showed up well, Wigglesqorth looked very good, Dave Keaney looked very threatening. Tom Wood looked in the best form I have seen him in a very long time.

Some other players hit the form their reputation, Rory Best, Launchbury too.

The scrum got a shove on a couple of times nearer the end.

Notch wrote:For Ireland;

The Good
Dave Kearney, Jared Payne, Jamie Heaslip, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Jack McGrath
The Rusty But I expect to Improve
Simon Zebo, Robbie Henshaw, Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray, Paul O'Connell, Devin Toner, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony
The Bad
Tommy Bowe

It's really only Bowe I have serious reservations over. I think the centre partnership showed why they are first choice- they are both good hard runners, they both pass the ball very well, they are so nailed on you can hang your hat on it. The pack over all, not aggressive enough, not physical enough, looks off the pace. Individual errors in defence and a passive defensive system were major worries when we didn't have the ball which just makes you wonder about Trimble and how much he could add in that department.

I would add Toner to the bad. He missed tackles, couldn't impose himself physically and didn't really disrupt the opposition lineout which is one of his main strengths.

What a great win for England today. Ireland did not look their best today.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Notch wrote:For Ireland;

The Good
Dave Kearney, Jared Payne, Jamie Heaslip, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Jack McGrath
The Rusty But I expect to Improve
Simon Zebo, Robbie Henshaw, Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray, Paul O'Connell, Devin Toner, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony
The Bad
Tommy Bowe

It's really only Bowe I have serious reservations over. I think the centre partnership showed why they are first choice- they are both good hard runners, they both pass the ball very well, they are so nailed on you can hang your hat on it. The pack over all, not aggressive enough, not physical enough, looks off the pace. Individual errors in defence and a passive defensive system were major worries when we didn't have the ball which just makes you wonder about Trimble and how much he could add in that department.

I would add Toner to the bad.  He missed tackles, couldn't impose himself physically and didn't really disrupt the opposition lineout which is one of his main strengths.

Henshall looked head and shoulders the better option at lock

Notch wrote:For Ireland;

The Good
Dave Kearney, Jared Payne, Jamie Heaslip, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Jack McGrath
The Rusty But I expect to Improve
Simon Zebo, Robbie Henshaw, Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray, Paul O'Connell, Devin Toner, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony
The Bad
Tommy Bowe

It's really only Bowe I have serious reservations over. I think the centre partnership showed why they are first choice- they are both good hard runners, they both pass the ball very well, they are so nailed on you can hang your hat on it. The pack over all, not aggressive enough, not physical enough, looks off the pace. Individual errors in defence and a passive defensive system were major worries when we didn't have the ball which just makes you wonder about Trimble and how much he could add in that department.

I would more or less agree. Payne did well enough today but he has to stop running across the pitch because all he is doing is cutting down the space for the wingers. Henshaw's positional play today was really poor- he continual stood too narrow and exposed the rest of the backline. Sexton's leadership was poor in that regard. However, to suggest, as someone else did, that Earls should come in because of his 'leadership in defence' is an absolute contradiction in terms.

My worry was the pack. Toner, SOB and POM were anonymous today. With Henderson playing so well I think of those those guys should miss out. But we were so slow to the breakdown, there was a real lack of urgency all over the pitch. Ireland looked like they were playing a friendly while England looked like they were in a match with something on the line. I can understand that we need to peak later than England, perhaps it is understandable that we weren't anywhere near as sharp as them. I still expected better.

nathan wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Spots and spats of good rugby by both sides.

England's scrum looks like something for Wales and Australia to target. Lost two against the head and didn't get a shove on. Once.

Thought a few surprising faces showed up well, Wigglesqorth looked very good, Dave Keaney looked very threatening. Tom Wood looked in the best form I have seen him in a very long time.

Some other players hit the form their reputation, Rory Best, Launchbury too.

The scrum got a shove on a couple of times nearer the end.

The England one???

I really don't think it did... England got a free kick after a wheeling went their way at one point in the middle of the game... But they looked the inferior scrum, not as big an improvement as you England fans were hoping I'm sure, that plus losing against the head is massive... Not a good day.

What is the news on Murray - is he alright?

maestegmafia wrote:
Henshall looked head and shoulders the better option at lock

Who?

mikey_dragon wrote:What is the news on Murray - is he alright?

Hopefully just a mild concussion.

Would like to see Henderson in the second row and Henry at open side. So for me its actually not which of O'Mahony and Toner drops out, its both of them to the bench. I just feel we're asking O'Brien to be the jackal in our back row when he is actually our best ball carrier. Henry can do everything at the breakdown SOB does and that frees O'Brien up to carry, We also have Toner in for his grit, but we lack aggression in defence and attack from our second rows and Henderson has it in spades.

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:
Henshall looked head and shoulders the better option at lock

Who?

He means Henderson, he has got him mixed up with Henshaw. And then gotten Henshaws name wrong also.

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:
Henshall looked head and shoulders the better option at lock

Who?

Henderson...

Sorry mate but in our country it's blwdi easy, your either Jones, Evans, Williams, Griffiths or Faletau...

All these fancy names you have abroad can get a bit much, easy to make a mistake you see?

Yes, that'll cover your back.

I expected a 10 point loss, so wasn't too far off. I'm not concerned about the result at all, but I am concerned about Bowe. He had a shocker today, and the thought of having to rely on someone like Fitz fills me with dread.
We will build momentum in the group games. Very fortunate we have that luxury.

Notch wrote:

Yes, that'll cover your back.

Cheers Notch mate...!

Picky blwdi foreigners, always ready to jump on you should you hint of making a mistake...
I bet he can't tell a jones from a Llewelyn

Exiled Gael wrote:

I would more or less agree. Payne did well enough today but he has to stop running across the pitch because all he is doing is cutting down the space for the wingers. Henshaw's positional play today was really poor- he continual stood too narrow and exposed the rest of the backline. Sexton's leadership was poor in that regard. However, to suggest, as someone else did, that Earls should come in because of his 'leadership in defence' is an absolute contradiction in terms.

It was me but how is that a contradiction in terms? Earls is an excellent marshaller of defensive lines and his inability to defend is also a myth. Some just think that Payne is the greatest thing in green and i disagree. Today he missed two tackles, got stripped, dropped a ball and as you said, ran sideways pretty much killing any space Ireland may have had to attack.

Anyways, on to the GAA now, come on Mayo.

Great performance overall. England were probably 20 points better than Ireland. On that performance they would have beaten anyone Barr NZ

Notch wrote:Would like to see Henderson in the second row and Henry at open side. So for me its actually not which of O'Mahony and Toner drops out, its both of them to the bench. I just feel we're asking O'Brien to be the jackal in our back row when he is actually our best ball carrier. Henry can do everything at the breakdown SOB does and that frees O'Brien up to carry, We also have Toner in for his grit, but we lack aggression in defence and attack from our second rows and Henderson has it in spades.

I think the backrow of POM, SOB and Heasip lacks balance. SOB and POM are better individual players than Henry, but perhaps Henry offers more to the functioning of the unit as a whole. I'm not sure Schmidt will drop POM in all honesty. I think he has enormous this good recent performances in the bank, even if he wasn't quite as good in this seasons Six Nations as last year. One might argue that could be something to do with Henry.

Henderson really should start at this juncture. His discipline is a worry though at this level.

wrfc1980 wrote:Great performance overall. England were probably 20 points better than Ireland. On that performance they would have beaten anyone Barr NZ

Ten pints of what he's drinking please barman

eirebilly wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote:

I would more or less agree. Payne did well enough today but he has to stop running across the pitch because all he is doing is cutting down the space for the wingers. Henshaw's positional play today was really poor- he continual stood too narrow and exposed the rest of the backline. Sexton's leadership was poor in that regard. However, to suggest, as someone else did, that Earls should come in because of his 'leadership in defence' is an absolute contradiction in terms.

It was me but how is that a contradiction in terms? Earls is an excellent marshaller of defensive lines and his inability to defend is also a myth. Some just think that Payne is the greatest thing in green and i disagree. Today he missed two tackles, got stripped, dropped a ball and as you said, ran sideways pretty much killing any space Ireland may have had to attack.

Anyways, on to the GAA now, come on Mayo.

Earls is a better defender than given credit for. But he hasn't got the mentality to be a leader. He is too much a confidence player to be a real leader on the pitch. Perfectly decent cover for 13, but should start for Ireland on the wing.

Payne is the best 13 we have. A stop gap perhaps for a season or two, but no one is claiming he is the best thing in green. That's a very silly hyperbolic comment to make just because people don't agree with you.

eirebilly wrote:
Today he missed two tackles, got stripped, dropped a ball and as you said, ran sideways pretty much killing any space Ireland may have had to attack.

Last time Earls played he lost three or four ball in contact, made no yards, made no plays in defence. And yet he's the answer. One standard for one player, another for the one you don't like. We get it. Payne today; ball in two hands, passing good, straightened the line when he needed, offloaded well. Most creative back and brought the players around him into the game and onto the ball.

Exiled Gael wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote:

I would more or less agree. Payne did well enough today but he has to stop running across the pitch because all he is doing is cutting down the space for the wingers. Henshaw's positional play today was really poor- he continual stood too narrow and exposed the rest of the backline. Sexton's leadership was poor in that regard. However, to suggest, as someone else did, that Earls should come in because of his 'leadership in defence' is an absolute contradiction in terms.

It was me but how is that a contradiction in terms? Earls is an excellent marshaller of defensive lines and his inability to defend is also a myth. Some just think that Payne is the greatest thing in green and i disagree. Today he missed two tackles, got stripped, dropped a ball and as you said, ran sideways pretty much killing any space Ireland may have had to attack.

Anyways, on to the GAA now, come on Mayo.

Earls is a better defender than given credit for. But he hasn't got the mentality to be a leader. He is too much a confidence player to be a real leader on the pitch. Perfectly decent cover for 13, but should start for Ireland on the wing.

Payne is the best 13 we have. A stop gap perhaps for a season or two, but no one is claiming he is the best thing in green. That's a very silly hyperbolic comment to make just because people don't agree with you.

I disagree, for Munster he is a great talker and leader of the backline, we also saw that in Green against Wales a few weeks back when he played 13. The defensive lines from the backline went to pish when he went off.

As for Payne, i dont believe that its a hyperbolic comment to make, there are some on here with a complete inability to acknowledge that he can make mistakes. I dont care if people dont agree with me but at least acknowledge the facts instead of simply saying he is the best. If its good enough to accuse others of faults then Payne must also have his faults highlighted.

Can you only replace a player in your world cup squad if they get injured?

Or is there a possibility to replace purely based on form?

I missed the match but it sounds like Ireland were well beaten.

Let's look on the bright side, expectations have been well deflated now.

mrsuperclear wrote:Can you only replace a player in your world cup squad if they get injured?

Or is there a possibility to replace purely based on form?

Injury only.

eirebilly wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote:

I would more or less agree. Payne did well enough today but he has to stop running across the pitch because all he is doing is cutting down the space for the wingers. Henshaw's positional play today was really poor- he continual stood too narrow and exposed the rest of the backline. Sexton's leadership was poor in that regard. However, to suggest, as someone else did, that Earls should come in because of his 'leadership in defence' is an absolute contradiction in terms.

It was me but how is that a contradiction in terms? Earls is an excellent marshaller of defensive lines and his inability to defend is also a myth. Some just think that Payne is the greatest thing in green and i disagree. Today he missed two tackles, got stripped, dropped a ball and as you said, ran sideways pretty much killing any space Ireland may have had to attack.

Anyways, on to the GAA now, come on Mayo.

Earls is a better defender than given credit for. But he hasn't got the mentality to be a leader. He is too much a confidence player to be a real leader on the pitch. Perfectly decent cover for 13, but should start for Ireland on the wing.

Payne is the best 13 we have. A stop gap perhaps for a season or two, but no one is claiming he is the best thing in green. That's a very silly hyperbolic comment to make just because people don't agree with you.

I disagree, for Munster he is a great talker and leader of the backline, we also saw that in Green against Wales a few weeks back when he played 13. The defensive lines from the backline went to pish when he went off.

As for Payne, i dont believe that its a hyperbolic comment to make, there are some on here with a complete inability to acknowledge that he can make mistakes. I dont care if people dont agree with me but at least acknowledge the facts instead of simply saying he is the best. If its good enough to accuse others of faults then Payne must also have his faults highlighted.

You should take your own advice and place the same level of analysis to Earl's game as Payne. There is a world of difference between Munster and a second/third string Wesh team and Payne's form in the Six Nations for example. Further, as Notch stated, Earls fluffed his lines with a poor performance last week. Earls has never really performed to a high enough level at 13 for Ireland. He needs to be judged on performances not on his potential which he has never really lived up to. I'm a big Earls fan. I want him to succeed. I want him to be Ireland's 13. But he hasn't put forward a convincing argument in a green shirt to dislodge Payne who, while not perfect, hasn't done an awful lot wrong for Ireland. His attacking play needs to improve, but with someone with 10 or so caps that should be expected. Your posts on this topic are unnecessarily hyperbolic and come across as personal. If you have an argument to make then do it, based on facts. Apply the same level of analysis to both parties and then you might have some more credibility.

Decent reply to the France game. Not a perfect result, we left some points there the midfield did looked more balanced than I thought it would. Lineout good whatever combo scrum under pressure whatever combo. Forwards answered all the questions asked for me.

maestegmafia wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:Great performance overall. England were probably 20 points better than Ireland. On that performance they would have beaten anyone Barr NZ

Ten pints of what he's drinking please barman

A clear win against a top-three ranked side, with a couple more tries left out there. I don't think it's a particularly ridiculous claim.

Hi hear Lawes could be sweating after a late hit on Henshaw

thomh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:Great performance overall. England were probably 20 points better than Ireland. On that performance they would have beaten anyone Barr NZ

Ten pints of what he's drinking please barman

A clear win against a top-three ranked side, with a couple more tries left out there. I don't think it's a particularly ridiculous claim.

It is. It could have been 20 points, I give him that, but to claim England would beat anyone, bar NZ, on that performance is nuts. It was a warm up! I'm not saying England don't have it in them, they might well beat all before them in the RWC, but people shouldn't read too much into that result. If you're going to do that then reflect on your last game v France......

Exiled Gael wrote:

You should take your own advice and place the same level of analysis to Earl's game as Payne. There is a world of difference between Munster and a second/third string Wesh team and Payne's form in the Six Nations for example. Further, as Notch stated, Earls fluffed his lines with a poor performance last week. Earls has never really performed to a high enough level at 13 for Ireland. He needs to be judged on performances not on his potential which he has never really lived up to. I'm a big Earls fan. I want him to succeed. I want him to be Ireland's 13. But he hasn't put forward a convincing argument in a green shirt to dislodge Payne who, while not perfect, hasn't done an awful lot wrong for Ireland. His attacking play needs to improve, but with someone with 10 or so caps that should be expected. Your posts on this topic are unnecessarily hyperbolic and come across as personal. If you have an argument to make then do it, based on facts. Apply the same level of analysis to both parties and then you might have some more credibility.

Had you have read before, i have been very critical of Earls, especially his decision making at times. I still feel he put in a better performance at 13 against a second string Welsh side than Payne did against a third string Scottish side. I have made it no secret in saying that i believe that Cave 12 Henshaw 13 is my ideal center pairing.

I have actually argued my points, based them on facts so am a little amazed by your accusation of hyperbolic statements. I think that its you being personal here, not i.

Well yes but it would have been a warm up for everyone else as well. Obviously we wouldn't have beaten everyone else if they were all at their peak. It's not like the claim was that we would also have beaten NZ.

thomh wrote:Well yes but it would have been a warm up for everyone else as well. Obviously we wouldn't have beaten everyone else if they were all at their peak. It's not like the claim was that we would also have beaten NZ.

Neither side really performed well. England looked much better than they did vs France in Paris. But that is not hard as they were terrible.

England's line out was better, but the scrum still has huge issues...! Again a few of the bench players looked better than the starters.

Ireland lacked the tempo they had a week ago in Dublin.