Gwent Dragons 2015/16 thread

[PhilBB]

First topic message reminder :

I don't need to address anything, I am one fan with an opinion the same as you and any other fan.

Sure, but here I am trying to understand your opinion yet, sadly, you won't address a key element of it.

Previously you wrote: "Only sad, narrow minded parochial people stuck in the amateur era mindset would see gwent as something in direct competition to newport." so I wrote a detailed, honest and clear answer as to why that insult is misplaced.

It's misplaced because one club is carrying all of the risk but with only 50% ownership.

Do you think it fair that one club carries all of the financial risk, without total ownership, for a "Gwent" team? Sure, you don't need to address the question but, in all fairness, it will speak volumes if you don't address it.

[munkian]

Bit precious aren't they ?

[Stone Motif]

Don't know why it offends so many people. Cardiff happily being cardiff. We are a bit of a hybrid, Scarlets are the same scarlets as pre03.

Seems fairly accurate in terms of how regions were intended to be set up.

Nor me.

You should see the amount of ire it causes amongst a small section of blues fans when they are indeed referred to as the Blues on Twitter instead of Cardiff Blues.

The same fans also dislike the OTR slogan - can't think why

Because they're porkie pies?

[mikey_dragon]

Gavin, I'll assume you got that info regarding Gill from Dai and his mates on twitter then .

As we discussed last week I said I would come back to you with information regarding Dragons U18 players in Newport. The traditional powerhouse schools of Newport such as St Josephs, Caerleon and Bassaleg do indeed lose their academy players to said institutions (Newport High and Cross Keys College). I assumed it was mostly down to their facilities but I've now found out that the blokes who coach the U18 work at Newport High and Cross Keys - and these two teams are in the premier schools competition in Wales. The U18s do indeed move to these institutions after year 11 if they want to remain in the Dragons Academy. What I've also heard though is that students have to go to other schools for particular subjects because their current school wasn't doing it at A level, or couldn't fit them in. It's changed a lot since I went and it seems a bit silly.

[GavinDragon]

That is ridiculous - that is how we lose players to Bristol. Would Hallam Amos have left Monmouth to stay in the Academy and potentially scupper the chance to get the grades to go to med school!?

And I can't reveal my source - and tbh I am not 100% sure it is true, it is just what I heard

[mikey_dragon]

A lot of those players will be culled as well, and in fact that is exactly what those coaches have told their players. I hope most of them can go off to university to have a good time and play for their uni's team - least that way they'll get some enjoyment from rugby and education.

[GavinDragon]

No wonder our academy loses each year - with motivational coaches like that. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you should raise an academy players hopes of making it if he clearly isnt going to, but telling them they probably wont isn't really going to result in them playing for you and the jersey

[Cardiff Dave]

Don't know why it offends so many people. Cardiff happily being cardiff. We are a bit of a hybrid, Scarlets are the same scarlets as pre03.

Seems fairly accurate in terms of how regions were intended to be set up.

Nor me.

You should see the amount of ire it causes amongst a small section of blues fans when they are indeed referred to as the Blues on Twitter instead of Cardiff Blues.

The same fans also dislike the OTR slogan - can't think why

Damn right too. I have been reading twitter btw.

[mikey_dragon]

No wonder our academy loses each year - with motivational coaches like that. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you should raise an academy players hopes of making it if he clearly isnt going to, but telling them they probably wont isn't really going to result in them playing for you and the jersey

Apart from the U18s then, I think our U20 results from the past two years have been good. The U16s also looked pretty good in that 10s tournament. I know these U18 coaches aren't really liked, and given the whole school thing it just seems like a recipe for disaster.

[GavinDragon]

Welsh Exiles in France:-

Luke Hamilton - Flanker - Agen
Jonathan Davies - Centre - Clermont
Nicky Robinson - Outside Half - Oyonnax
Luke Charteris - Lock - Racing 92
Mike Phillips - Scrum Half - Racing 92
Leigh Halpenny - Full Back - Toulon

And in D2

Ben Broster - Prop - Biarritz
Chris Czekaj - Wing/Full Back - Colomiers

[mikey_dragon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35123236 There's been a few occasions over the years when I thought McBryde could do with a slap. After reading some of the cobblers in that article I've never more wanted to be the one to issue him that clip! I mean if he left out the dire inaccuracies then would have made a good point, but he didn't, and it's also really rich coming from one of Wales' shi*test ever coaches.

[Guest]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35123236 There's been a few occasions over the years when I thought McBryde could do with a slap. After reading some of the cobblers in that article I've never more wanted to be the one to issue him that clip! I mean if he left out the dire inaccuracies then would have made a good point, but he didn't, and it's also really rich coming from one of Wales' shi*test ever coaches.

I get McBryde's point, and I have been quite vocal in the past that Faletau leaving was in his best interests, but it's totally at odds with the views of his head coach (Gats) and his employer (WRU). He's basically advocating that Welsh players move to clubs in better competitions with more internationals around them as it's good for them. Again, I get the point and I tend to agree, but that's either going to cause conflict within the Welsh camp between him and Gats, or it's a turnaround in view from the WRU and they are actually happy for players to leave now. Which is it?! A unified standpoint from the WRU/Team Wales is needed, not having coaches go rogue and come with out polar opposite opinions. Here's hoping Gats kicks him in the nuts and tells him to keep his cake hole shut or he'll make them all look silly (or sillier?!)

[mikey_dragon]

Griff I guess you missed the bit where I insinuated that outside of the dire inaccuracies a fair point was made - if I have to pin point the exact quotes for you then you're a bit lacking in comprehension. You are correct about a required unified standpoint however, but when have NGD ever had rights equal to the other three? Hope Gats kicks him and Howley out of the coaching staff after a shot to the nuts.

[Guest]

Excuse me? I might have quoted your post, but I was not talking to you. I was merely saying that I do not agree with McBryde for saying this publically, even if he does make a good point. So WTF are you on about 'pinpoint exact quotes' and 'lacking in comprehension'. It is clearly you who lacked the comprehension of MY post.

You need to climb down from up your own ar@e, sun shine. Learn some posting etiquette.

[mikey_dragon]

You quoted my post and wasn't replying to me? Awkward... "I get McBryde's point" which exactly? He spoke a lot of cobblers in the article and going by some of your early comments on the Faletau move over the past few weeks, along with believing that being outside of Wales is in his best interests then I would hazard a guess which comments you are leaning towards. The way McBryde has come out with this publically is an entirely different point - though I did say that I agreed with you when you expanded onto this.

[mikey_dragon]

Anyway the team for Pau has been unveiled and again I'm not entirely sure why so many changes have been made, or why our best TH is on the bench covering LH.

[GavinDragon]

Did a little research on when contracts expire. This is not scientific so if anyone has more up to date information, please correct me:-

2016 - Boris Stankovich - Prop
2016 - Shaun Knight - Prop
2016 - Cory Hill - Lock
2016 - Hugh Gustafason - Hooker/Prop (not certain on this - could be 2017)
2016 - Pat Leach - Centre (again not certain, but doesnt seem to have had an extension for 2 years)
2016 - Jason Tovey - Outside Half
2016 - James Thomas - Back row (again not certain on this one)
2016 - James Benjamin - Back row (not certain)
2016 - Matthew Pewtner - wing (could be 2017)

2017 - Rynard Landman
2017 - Brok Harris
2017 - Sarel Pretorious (signed on a "long term deal" so could be 2018)
2017 - TRT
2017 - Elliot Dee
2017 - Tyler Morgan
2017 - Joe Davies
2017 - Hallam Amos
2017 - Matthew Screech
2017 - Lloyd Fairbrother
2017 - Lewis Evans
2017 - Nick Cudd
2017 - Nick Crosswell
2017 - Ollie Griffiths
2017 - Andrew Coombs
2017 - Charlie Davies (could be 2018)
2017 - Carl Meyer
2017 - Tom Prydie
2017 - Ross Wardle
2017 - Adam Warren (not certain)
2017 - Nick Scott (not certain)
2017 - Jack Dixon
2017 - Aled Brew

2018 - Dorian Jones

And I have no idea on Luc Jones - probably an indefinite contract! But it looks certain we will need a LH, Lock, Centre and Outside Half, with a maximum of 2 NWQ spaces, depending if any of tha above re-sign.

[GavinDragon]

Dragons: C Meyer, N Scott, A Hughes, A Warren, A Hewitt, J Tovey, S Pretorius, P Price, E Dee, L Fairbrother, C Hill, R Landman (captain), N Crosswell, N Cudd, T Faletau.

Replacements: R Buckley, B Harris, S Knight, M Screech, O Griffiths, C Davies, D Jones, R Wardle.

I don't understand this guys logic behind switching the team around so much. Dorian gets a run of games and plays well then is dropped. Likewish Screech. Picking our third best TH while both others sit on the bench. Our ex-welsh international hooker is left out alltogether

[mikey_dragon]

Brok Harris? I always thought Stanko had originally signed on to take a coaching role. It seems like we have the bulk of the squd taken care of anyway - but as you say and as it's been said for months we need to look at signing a LH, lock and midfield cover.

[GavinDragon]

Added him in

[Guest]

You quoted my post and wasn't replying to me? Awkward... "I get McBryde's point" which exactly? He spoke a lot of cobblers in the article and going by some of your early comments on the Faletau move over the past few weeks, along with believing that being outside of Wales is in his best interests then I would hazard a guess which comments you are leaning towards. The way McBryde has come out with this publically is an entirely different point - though I did say that I agreed with you when you expanded onto this.

Didn't read your post to be honest.  Just clicked on your link and read McBryde's comments.  Shouldn't have quoted you.  Should have just started a fresh post about the link.

My only point is that, regardless of my views on this, in any organisation - government, NHS, WRU, RFU, whoever - the senior people need to be giving a unified message or all confidence is lost in them (especially with the WRU at this point in time as public confidence is low anyway).  Gats saying one thing and McBryde saying another suggests a lack of unity in the WRU coaching team, which is not good for the players or the general public.  He should have kept different or opposing views to Gats outside of the public domain.  Now players who might have been persuaded to come home for fear of not getting into the Welsh side may decide to stay away or leave to go abroad as McBryde seems to advocate it.  This is not what Gats or the WRU have been championing.  

On Faletau; yes, my own view was that a move was good for HIM (not for the Dragons), but that doesn't mean I think the coaches at the national governing body should be contradicting each other.  'Twas the only point I was making.

[mikey_dragon]

Well there you go then Griff - again I have no choice to assume you're still replying to me as I'm quoted.

That's a fair point - but McBryde is talking sh*t and given your views I assumed you were 'seeing his point' there - perhaps I was wrong about that. Always thought McBryde was a poor coach and very lucky to get his job; right now I just hate the guy for blurting out inaccuracies that are banded about by anti-gwent members of the pink cowboy hat brigade.

It will be interesting to see whether or not Gatland responds to McBryde and what the response will be.

[Guest]

Astounded by the team, to be honest. We have 8 days after this before the Cardiff game and this is a competition we can progress in. I do feel some of the selections is just him throwing certain players under the bus (Fairbrother and especially Tovey). Absolute clown. At least he had the decency to send his boy back to the PS team though.

[GavinDragon]

Think Ian Evans, Ben Broster, Nick Macleod, Gavin Henson are players we may be looking at

[GavinDragon]

NGDPS Side:

Dragons: GR Jones, A Brew, B Nightingale, A Jones, G Gasson, A O'Brien, L Jones, L Garrett, H Gustafson (captain), L Brown, S Andrews, A Brown, J Skinner, J Benjamin, H Keddie.

Replacements: E Shipp, R Cornock, A Jeffries, A Sweet, O Davies, A Robson, C Edwards.

[mikey_dragon]

Think Ian Evans, Ben Broster, Nick Macleod, Gavin Henson are players we may be looking at

Broster would be a wasted signing, and Nick Macleod as well probably. I'd only take him if I knew we were going to be getting Gavin Henson as well.

[GavinDragon]

Admit to not having seen Broster play since he left Wasps, but he could scrummage then, which is an ideal replacement for Boris.

I am sure Lyn is looking at or speaking to Henson, but my concern with him is the number of games he will play. Nick Macleod can play 10/15 and could be a good backup should Tovey leave. (which I would be sad to see - I still rate Tovey and Darren Edwards got the best out of him)

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Astounded by the team, to be honest. We have 8 days after this before the Cardiff game and this is a competition we can progress in. I do feel some of the selections is just him throwing certain players under the bus (Fairbrother and especially Tovey). Absolute clown. At least he had the decency to send his boy back to the PS team though.

My guess is that he's got the Blues game in mind and thinks putting our best XV out and losing would knock our confidence / momentum ahead of the 27th. Aside from the fact that it assumes we'll lose, which I hate, even if it is likely, it's as if he's prepared to take a defeat if it means beating the Blues - but the problem with that is that you risk a heavier defeat in the first game, and put more pressure on yourself to win the second game, having effectively sacrificed the first game. We're not guaranteed to win either game, so we should be trying to win both.

[Cardiff Dave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35123236 There's been a few occasions over the years when I thought McBryde could do with a slap. After reading some of the cobblers in that article I've never more wanted to be the one to issue him that clip! I mean if he left out the dire inaccuracies then would have made a good point, but he didn't, and it's also really rich coming from one of Wales' shi*test ever coaches.

Sounds like the WRU bloke is suggesting that it's a drag being a Drag.

[Cardiff Dave]

You quoted my post and wasn't replying to me? Awkward... "I get McBryde's point" which exactly? He spoke a lot of cobblers in the article and going by some of your early comments on the Faletau move over the past few weeks, along with believing that being outside of Wales is in his best interests then I would hazard a guess which comments you are leaning towards. The way McBryde has come out with this publically is an entirely different point - though I did say that I agreed with you when you expanded onto this.

Didn't read your post to be honest.  Just clicked on your link and read McBryde's comments.  Shouldn't have quoted you.  Should have just started a fresh post about the link.

My only point is that, regardless of my views on this, in any organisation - government, NHS, WRU, RFU, whoever - the senior people need to be giving a unified message or all confidence is lost in them (especially with the WRU at this point in time as public confidence is low anyway).  Gats saying one thing and McBryde saying another suggests a lack of unity in the WRU coaching team, which is not good for the players or the general public.  He should have kept different or opposing views to Gats outside of the public domain.  Now players who might have been persuaded to come home for fear of not getting into the Welsh side may decide to stay away or leave to go abroad as McBryde seems to advocate it.  This is not what Gats or the WRU have been championing.  

On Faletau; yes, my own view was that a move was good for HIM (not for the Dragons), but that doesn't mean I think the coaches at the national governing body should be contradicting each other.  'Twas the only point I was making.

Think you and Mikey had your wires crossed momentarily. No harm done. Agreed that McBryde's comments aren't exactly helpful to put it mildly.

[Cardiff Dave]

My only point is that, regardless of my views on this, in any organisation - government, NHS, WRU, RFU, whoever - the senior people need to be giving a unified message or all confidence is lost in them (especially with the WRU at this point in time as public confidence is low anyway).  

Fat chance.
Can't even get the names of the teams right mun and apparently we only have one proper region. Re Cardiff; Nugget can't say the C word on air and S4C only say the G word when airing. Must be confused people and kids asking awkward questions throughout the regions, including the real one, wondering who's who and what's what.

[GavinDragon]

Its not that confusing David - my 10 year old seems to understand it.

[Cardiff Dave]

Its not that confusing David - my 10 year old seems to understand it.

Wish I was 10 again. Great age to be. Plenty confusion though Gav mostly involving grown ups.

[GavinDragon]

Men against boys at the PS game today. Pack were completely outmuscled and the backs weren't much better.

Very few of that squad look capable of making the grade as a professional. Which is quite worrying when there are a few so called senior players in that side.

The only one who may make it is Leon Brown.

[Guest]

I don't want to make excuses, and I have no real knowledge of the Doncaster squad, but it seems a much harder task for these premiership select sides than for the other teams. Doncaster are together all year round, whereas these select sides are shunted together from 4 seperate club sides (in the case of Gwent). Just the knowledge of each other, partnerships, patterns of play, etc. must be more 'fluid' for the sides competing as clubs. I know the whole point from a Welsh perspective is to give exposure to all of the up and coming prospects rather than just club sides which might not include the academy and youth products, but I suppose I'm just saying that results like this shouldn't be too unexpected when you face a good championship side.

[GavinDragon]

I agree Griff. I think next season there needs to be a full season of fixtures for each squad - they could play each other home and away and could also look to play English A sides.

But in all honesty - Doncaster would compete physically in the English premiership. They strangled us at the set piece today.

I think our props will learn alot from facing them.

[bedfordwelsh]

What a first half. 24 nil up 3 tries to the good. Dee and Tovey having very good games

[GavinDragon]

we are playing error free rugby and capitalising on theirs. The ref doesnt want to give penalties at the scrum which is working massively in our favour

[bedfordwelsh]

we are playing error free rugby and capitalising on theirs. The ref doesnt want to give penalties at the scrum which is working massively in our favour

See it's an easy game really lol

[Guest]

Woah! I saw the score was 0-10, but 0-24?! Crikey. Not wanting to sound cynical about my own team, but are Pau just not bothered???

[bedfordwelsh]

Woah! I saw the score was 0-10, but 0-24?! Crikey. Not wanting to sound cynical about my own team, but are Pau just not bothered???

Griff,

Steely and Adrian Hadley are commentating on radio and they have said how poor Pau are but they also said as ever you can only play what's in front of you etc and the first half we played pretty much error free rugby and took chances when they made mistakes.

Pau made 13 changes from last week but 10 of the starting line up drew with Racing two weeks ago so they are no mugs, we are down to 14 at mo but Dee, Tovey, Ashton, Meyer and Cudd have had really top draw games.

[Guest]

Good stuff. Allez les Dragons!

[bedfordwelsh]

Even given this result which with 6/7 minutes to go should be in the bag LJ still makes some strange decisions.

We lost Pretorious and Faletau at half time and then going into the last quarter he takes Landman off when you think you would need some strong leadership etc.

[wayne]

I don't want to make excuses, and I have no real knowledge of the Doncaster squad, but it seems a much harder task for these premiership select sides than for the other teams. Doncaster are together all year round, whereas these select sides are shunted together from 4 seperate club sides (in the case of Gwent). Just the knowledge of each other, partnerships, patterns of play, etc. must be more 'fluid' for the sides competing as clubs. I know the whole point from a Welsh perspective is to give exposure to all of the up and coming prospects rather than just club sides which might not include the academy and youth products, but I suppose I'm just saying that results like this shouldn't be too unexpected when you face a good championship side.

Quite right Griff, we HAVE to blood the youngsters in these games, to provide the pathway

[Guest]

I don't want to make excuses, and I have no real knowledge of the Doncaster squad, but it seems a much harder task for these premiership select sides than for the other teams. Doncaster are together all year round, whereas these select sides are shunted together from 4 seperate club sides (in the case of Gwent). Just the knowledge of each other, partnerships, patterns of play, etc. must be more 'fluid' for the sides competing as clubs. I know the whole point from a Welsh perspective is to give exposure to all of the up and coming prospects rather than just club sides which might not include the academy and youth products, but I suppose I'm just saying that results like this shouldn't be too unexpected when you face a good championship side.

Quite right Griff, we HAVE to blood the youngsters in these games, to provide the pathway

Oh, definitely. I was fully behind a move away from the 4 prem clubs representing us to regional select sides. But it's always going to be more difficult now: it's more like 4 poor man's Baa Baas sides we're entering now!

I agree with the comment above about having more fixtures for these sides in future rather than just the B&I cup. That would create a more official tier in between Premiership and regional level that will hopefully be a better step up for players than straight from the prem.

[GavinDragon]

Absolutely agree. But I do think this comp is a good litmus test for our youngsters against some hardened pro's in the championship.

Doncaster are second in the Championship, and they brought down a fairly strong side. To be well beaten by them is not disgraceful.

But I do wonder whether many, if any, of that xv will make the grade

[wayne]

I don't want to make excuses, and I have no real knowledge of the Doncaster squad, but it seems a much harder task for these premiership select sides than for the other teams. Doncaster are together all year round, whereas these select sides are shunted together from 4 seperate club sides (in the case of Gwent). Just the knowledge of each other, partnerships, patterns of play, etc. must be more 'fluid' for the sides competing as clubs. I know the whole point from a Welsh perspective is to give exposure to all of the up and coming prospects rather than just club sides which might not include the academy and youth products, but I suppose I'm just saying that results like this shouldn't be too unexpected when you face a good championship side.

Quite right Griff, we HAVE to blood the youngsters in these games, to provide the pathway

Oh, definitely. I was fully behind a move away from the 4 prem clubs representing us to regional select sides. But it's always going to be more difficult now: it's more like 4 poor man's Baa Baas sides we're entering now!

I agree with the comment above about having more fixtures for these sides in future rather than just the B&I cup. That would create a more official tier in between Premiership and regional level that will hopefully be a better step up for players than straight from the prem.

I don't know, about your team Griff, but we have a coach and system behind our Team, Dan Griffiths is the Coach, it can only be better that they are meeting up on a regular basis and yes more games for these players would be good.
Also well done on your win today, if we can play the kind of Rugby we played today, for the rest of the season and you can win this competition we can have 3 teams in RCC1 next season.

[Guest]

Definitely good for our players. And especially if they're young. If you're a club stalwart, playing prop for e.g. Newport RFC in the B&I cup at 35, then a 40 point drubbing might not be much of a learning experience. Old dogs and new tricks, etc. But for the young lads - as long as the coaching and analysis is good, with some constructive feedback, then hopefully they've got the capacity to learn and improve. But I guess we just have to accept that sometimes they're going to get a good beating from good championship sides. They're pretty much pro in the championship aren't they? Especially those at the top end I think.

[Guest]

I don't want to make excuses, and I have no real knowledge of the Doncaster squad, but it seems a much harder task for these premiership select sides than for the other teams. Doncaster are together all year round, whereas these select sides are shunted together from 4 seperate club sides (in the case of Gwent). Just the knowledge of each other, partnerships, patterns of play, etc. must be more 'fluid' for the sides competing as clubs. I know the whole point from a Welsh perspective is to give exposure to all of the up and coming prospects rather than just club sides which might not include the academy and youth products, but I suppose I'm just saying that results like this shouldn't be too unexpected when you face a good championship side.

Quite right Griff, we HAVE to blood the youngsters in these games, to provide the pathway

Oh, definitely. I was fully behind a move away from the 4 prem clubs representing us to regional select sides. But it's always going to be more difficult now: it's more like 4 poor man's Baa Baas sides we're entering now!

I agree with the comment above about having more fixtures for these sides in future rather than just the B&I cup. That would create a more official tier in between Premiership and regional level that will hopefully be a better step up for players than straight from the prem.

I don't know, about your team Griff, but we have a coach and system behind our Team, Dan Griffiths is the Coach, it can only be better that they are meeting up on a regular basis and yes more games for these players would be good.
Also well done on your win today, if we can play the kind of Rugby we played today, for the rest of the season and you can win this competition we can have 3 teams in RCC1 next season.

Hi Wayne, yes we have a coach and a structure but these players are with respective clubs (Newport, Ebbw Vale, Cross Keys, Bedwas), AND sometimes playing at the region, for most of the season. Same for yours too. So these players have perhaps 3 different coaches (prem club, Lyn the lip if they get Dragons time, Prem select), up to 3 game plans, playing styles, philosophies to buy into, etc. Must be more difficult than for Doncaster players, for example, who just have 100% Doncaster focus all season. One set of team mates, one training ground, one set of coaches, one set of moves, etc. Plus they're not quite on the same level as the Championship sides - it's more our development teams against championship teams with a pro focus trying their best to enter the English elite league - so they'll be a blend of youth and experience.

Like I said, not making excuses just pointing out some differences that might paper over the poor performances

[GavinDragon]

I was sat in front of the Knight's analysis guys who were explaining to the press guy that the maj are pro with a few clubs mix and match of pro and semi pro e.g. moseley

[mikey_dragon]

The PS XV have done okay in this competition, and the B&I cup asks a lot from our players. Our team is mostly made up of past and present academy players; most of the premiership players that supplement them aren't really going to be anything other than semi-pro, and some of the forwards from the premiership aren't strong enough to match the top English championship sides. Anyway it looks as if Doncaster will win the pool, I think we'll come a respectable second. We should be better next year, although we should be ruthless in selection. Most of us already know who won't make it as a pro player already.

Now onto the Dragons - great to get a bonus point win against what looked like a strong Pau (on paper at least). I'm disappointed that we let them back in late on though, that is definitely a trend with the Dregs. I remember being concerned over the changes, but were the coaches making tactical changes after doing their homework? Either way I guess we were all wrong. Good to hear Tovey was MOTM because I thought he was about to slip off the radar with Jones and AOB getting better. Need points, ideally a win away to Sale. Castres looked to have packed it in with this competition now, so we should beat them at home - then we top the group for the second year running and hopefully go one better than last year .

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