Leicester Tigers Thread 2015/16 A New Beginning Part 1

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :


2015/16 Senior Squad ATM:
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Mauger (HC), Hansen (Defence + Skills Coach), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Murphy (Ass. Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) Youngs, Ghiraldini, Bateman, Thacker
4/5) De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
6/7/8) Crane, Croft, Fonua, McCaffrey, O'Connor, Pearce, Williams
9) Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Betham, Camacho, Goneva, Thompstone,
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2015/16 Development Squad: Oliver Byrant, Jake Farnworth, George Tresidder,  Will Owen

2015/16
Greg Bateman (Exeter)
Mike Williams (Warriors)
Mike Fitzgerald (Chiefs)
Opeti Fonua (Welsh)
Brendon O'Connor (Blues)
Peter Betham (NSW Waratahs)
Lachlan McCaffrey (London Welsh)
Jono Kitto (Bay of Plenty + Cheifs Development Squad)

Transfers Out 2014/15:
Paul Burke (N/A)
Phil Blake (N/A)
Neil McCarthy (Glous)
Tom Price (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Exeter)
Neil Briggs (Sale)
Julien Salvi (Exeter)
Pohe (USC)
Brad Thorn (Retirement)
Peterson (Glasgow)
Hamilton (Coventry)
Bristow (Wasps)
R.Williams (?)
Whetton
Hepetema (BoP)
Allen (Retirement)

[Geordie]

Yeah it was quite an experienced pack we put out. Normally Dean uses it very much as the development side...but I'm beginning to suspect that with the crazy amount of injuries we've had, he's currently using it as a match fitness team instead.

Don't forget the weather was utterly attrocious. IF you put out an inexperienced side they might not have been used to such bad conditions. (It was appalling weather even for a Newcastle winter)

[formerly known as Sam]

We weren't set up for bad weather. Bryant the prospect playing 10 has a great passing game but his lack of kicking game is an issue and he's much more likely to end up at 12. We have more centres than fly halfs in the development squad though.

[king_carlos]

Were you at the game GF?

Without the AP I think most sides are using it as a match fitness side with a lot of fringe players to be fair. With the Tigers usual injuries building up we haven't had the chance though. It doesn't help that two of the most talented youngsters in forwards and backs play the same position. Oli Bryant and Charlie Thacker at 12, Will Owen and Will Evans at openside. Getting all 4 in the side knocks balance a bit.

Plus our young LHs seem unable to scrummage...

Sam - I thought Burns had one of his best games for Tigers in pretty dire circumstances on Saturday. As such I'd stick with him. I can see the argument for Williams from a kicking side of things though, both from the tee and tactically. Earlier in the season his kicking from hand was excellent and got us out of a couple of tricky spots.

[formerly known as Sam]

I suppose it makes more sense to rotate Williams back in for Treviso. Get him game time and some match fitness there.

[LondonTiger]

Dom Barrow banned for a week for striking Maro Itoje. Fair enough, and I guess the low ban reflects the provocation - but still annoying that Itoje was constantly doing the same and worse yet was not cited.

[BamBam]

Young Maro is developing a knack for getting away with this kind of thing

[formerly known as Sam]

It's intelligent play from Itoje. Barrow has a temper and if you're brave enough to take the consequences why not wind him up? If he gets a reputation for this sort of thing he'll start getting pinged and carded though so he's treading a fine line.

[king_carlos]

It's the sort of knack that most can't stand when it's against them (it drove me nuts at the weekend) but are quietly pleased by when it's in their side. That's as long as he stays on the right side of the line though of course. As Sam says, all it takes these days with cameras covering every inch of play is one moment of pure idiocy and a play has a reputation for their career. Refs will say it doesn't figure in their decisions but you can regularly see prior conceptions doing just this.

A more general example of these preconceptions is how much quicker refs are to blow for holding on if it's a sides 7 (especially a well known one) over the ball. Most refs this season have been trying to give the attacking side more chance to clear guys out and taking slightly longer to blow for not releasing. When a 7 with a reputation for turnovers get over the ball many refs are far faster to give them the call and often more lenient for not showing a clear release of the tackled player.

[broadlandboy]

Manu on the bench

[bedfordwelsh]

Any news on Owen Williams' injury, suspected broken jaw wasn't it?

[formerly known as Sam]

Any news on Owen Williams' injury, suspected broken jaw wasn't it?

No more news than that I don't think. Gutting for him he was playing exceptionally well after just recovering from injury.

[Welly]

Talk we might be looking at bringing Matera back if Argentina franchise struggles (Money wise) as a replacement for Crane.

Hell of a player but would rather we signed a proper 8 to replace Crane and bring in Milne.

Still need to sign for next season IMO
1) A Hooker (either an experienced Hooker I.E. Ford or a Young player with potential and proven AP experience i.e. Mcguigan)
2) A LH/TH
3) A Centre depending if Roberts, Bai and JDV all go even with toomua coming.
4) An outside back assuming Goneva goes and Loamanu/Camacho/Benjamin are all maybes.

Have in the academy
Bryant (He is a 12 not a 10 IMO) to replace Roberts IMO.
Odogwu, Worth and Yawyaga all prob could do with 2 or so season in the development squad first

Like to see room made for Beckett and Milne.

[formerly known as Sam]

Matera is a bit of a penalty magnet despite his obvious power around the park. We don't really need another eight with McCaffery, Fonua and Pearce. I'd rather we moved Will Owen into a greater rotation role and focused the money elsewhere.

Back up hooker is a priority. LH is based on what happens with Augero, Mulipola and Rizzo. If we can keep two of the three then we're in a decent position. Centre I'm relaxed on as we have potential coming through ditto wing though if we could sign a younger Loamano that would help cover nicely.

[king_carlos]

I've only just got back home having been away for the weekend so I haven't seen the game. Reading reports I must say it sounds like the result was a cause for relief rather than celebration after the 3 first half tries then injuries.

I can't comment on Manu as I haven't seen the game. I must say that I think the club dealt with his return perfectly though by not naming him until late on to reduce the hype as much as could be.

On Matera I'd lean towards the views Sam gives above. I think he's a cracking player so wouldn't complain about him returning. At the same time we now have McCaffery performing fantastically in the role Matera would play - i.e. a flanker who covers the back row. Owen is talented enough to deserve some chances, I'd like to see Thacker moved to the back row. Even after that Will Evans has been starting at openside in the A-league ahead of Owen so is clearly rated.

The other possibility with Matera is that Croft is also off as well as Crane. With Williams looking like first choice at full fitness and second rows (Slater/Fitz) being picked at blindside ahead of him for big games it is a realistic possibility. At current I sadly can't see him getting another look with England unless he suddenly returns to his explosive best. I'd still be reluctant though.

[king_carlos]

1.Ayerza, Mulipola/Aguero/Rizzo/signing(s)
2.Youngs, signing, Bateman, Van Vurren/Farnworth
3.Cole, Balmain, Pas
4.Slater, Barrow
5.Kitch, Fitz, De Chaves
6.Williams, Croft/signing?, Beckett/Milne
7.O'Connor, Thacker, Owen
8.McCaffery, Pearce, Fonau

9.Youngs, Harrison, Kitto
10.Burns, Williams

11.Veainu, Goneva/signing, Benjamin/Camacho
12.Toomua, Smith, Bryant
13.Tuilagi, signing/JDV/Roberts, Catchpole
14.Betham, Thompstone, Odogwu
15.Tait, Bell, Morris

With McCaffery covering the back row, Betham and Tait covering 13, TV covering the back 3, etc.

It's got the making of a VERY good squad IMO but the front row will need investment to both keep the current players (Logo would be fantastic but feels more unlikely) and bring new guys in (reserve hooker especially). The LH situation is further compounded by Brugnara and Sio still looking unable to scrummage.

[Welly]

Thompstone has re-signed.

And talk that we are to announce a big name signing today.

[Welly]

Now Matt Smith has re-signed.

[king_carlos]

Great news on Smith and Thompstone. MS has looked a new man this year playing at 12 in the Mauger/Hansen system.

'Tombstone' has been excellent for us last season and this one so far. He's just one of those guys who keeps putting out strong performances week in, week out. With how well Lewington is playing at LI there should probably be more lingering disappointment that he left Tigers. Thankfully getting Thompstone the other way has helped alleviate that a bit!

[LondonTiger]

Veainu signed a new contract.

[maverickmak]

Standing by for a marquee announcement...

[LondonTiger]

Last announcement at mid-day

[formerly known as Sam]

Well this is one way to make a Monday more interesting. I'd prefer news that Mulipola is staying to another marquee signing.

[king_carlos]

Great news on TV. I must say that I do enjoy the theatrics of 'magic Monday' which the club have adopted! A final announcement at midday. I'm guessing that will be the suggested signing for next season rather than a resigning - I wouldn't complain if Logo or Niki resigned though!

Logo
Aguero
Rizzo
Brugnara
Pasquali
Croft
Pearce
Crane
Bai
Roberts
De Villiers
Niki
Benjamin
Camacho
Bell

Those are still out of contract. I'd expect us to keep on Bell, Pearce and Pas given they are coming on nicely. Niki and Logo would be great but I expect they will be offered very large paydays in France which I couldn't criticise them for taking.

The others are up in the air. Camacho/Benjamin have really poor injury records which hamper them. It would be so sad to see Crofty go but I can increasingly see it being a possibility. Crane I feel will want a move for more game time. Likewise for Roberts.

[Welly]

Signed JPP.

[LondonTiger]

Signed JPP.

Hmm.

[king_carlos]

Agreed LT.

[Welly]

Why?

He plays OC, wing and Fullback @ international level.
Anyone says our back 3 players and OC in the academy are not AP level yet in 3 years time should be ready for the senior rugby.

Perfect replacement for Goneva IMO (Guessing he is going).

[maverickmak]

I expect Goneva, Benji and/or Camacho are going.

Very good threes players. Perhaps a little underrated. Not many weaknesses, pacey and a proven finisher at all levels.

[LondonTiger]

Goneva, Camacho, Benjamin all likely to be going.


However I just feel we need an extra hooker more than an extra back 3 player if we are spending serious money. All the recruitment has been in the backs - a good indicator of the changing style of play, but we still need to be solid up front.

[Welly]

Goneva, Camacho, Benjamin all likely to be going.


However I just feel we need an extra hooker more than an extra back 3 player if we are spending serious money. All the recruitment has been in the backs - a good indicator of the changing style of play, but we still need to be solid up front.

TBH With Leo's money we should be able to get a decent replacement.

Highly doubt another starting hooker would come to be behind Youngs potentially.

A player like Ford would fit in with Leo's cap.

[maverickmak]

We were looking at McGuigan at Falcons. Good young hooker.

[king_carlos]

I agree that as a replacement for Niki he is a very good acquisition Welly. He's a couple of years younger, even more versatile and has tons of top level experience.

There's just the inevitable twinge of sadness that it likely spells Goneva leaving. Plus I can't help but feel the money may be better spent elsewhere.

9.Youngs, Harrison, Kitto
10.Williams, Burns
11.Veainu, Betham
12.Toomua, Smith
13.Manu, Cathpole
14.JPP, Thompstone
15.Tait, Morris

As far as a back line of confirmed guys signed on for next season I will take that! Bell should be added to it as well plus the possibility of Bryant or Odogwu getting game time from the youngsters.

[maverickmak]

Backs certainly look very strong for next season, and there's a few good youngsters about who could get an opportunity when injuries inevitably hit.

Just a couple of signings to shore up the pack and I'm satisfied we can take whatever anyone throws at us!

[formerly known as Sam]

I do hope we are going to move on a couple like Camacho and Crane. We need to make some room for those coming through. Seeing Lewington playing so well is no surprise for me and I'm concerned that unless we jettison some fringe players our talented youngsters will leave for first team action and we will once again be left questioning how they slipped through our fingers.

Having said that JP covers a good portion of the back line and is strong, quick and aggressive. He should add some experience but can be a little hot headed at times.

[Welly]

Again the backs closes to Lewington talent wise are prob still 2 years off senior rugby.

as long as in that 3rd year they have been given a good run at and looked at properly it's fine.

[nathan]

Thompstone and smith have signed new contracts

[nathan]

Oh and Veainu has signed a extended contract!

[formerly known as Sam]

Welly I'd like to see young talent take up squad roles earlier. Playing four or five games a season will not hamper us but will improve their game significantly. Being limited to A league and LG Cup is ok but they will need some AP time or at the end of those three years they either won't be here or won't have reached their potential yet and we'll end up signing experienced cover.

[king_carlos]

I've said it so many times over the summer and so far this season but one vital thing that Cockers etc could do better is giving the young players a chance in a close to full strength, winning side to see how they do. If we throw them into a game with a scratch side when the injury list is enormous then youngsters will always struggle. Particularly if partnered with a fellow youngster alongside them such as in the centre.

Treviso at Welford would be a great opportunity to do this. Particularly in the back row with O'Connor injured. If another hooker is back fit to bench then I would be very happy to see Thacker at openside.

Mulipola, Youngs, Balmain, De Chaves, Kitch, Croft, Thacker/Owen, McCaffery
Harrison, Burns, Goneva, Smith, Tuilagi, Thompstone, Tait

Bench: Leo/Bateman/Van Vurren, Aguero, Cole, Fitz, Pearce, Youngs, Bell, De Villiers

If JDV can't make it then TV or Betham are great options from the bench. I'd like to see both get a much needed rest though. Ideally McCaffery needs a week off as well but with O'Connor going down on Saturday that probably isn't an option until after Stade.

[Welly]

Currently
Mulipola
Owen
Van Vurren
JDV

are 1000% not going to be involved ATM.

[king_carlos]

Are they not in the ERCC squad Welly?

I hadn't considered that...

[Welly]

Yep.

Bateman and Leo are also not going to be fit from what i gather.

Leaves Thacker as our only Replacement hooker ATM so he would have to either start or be on the bench ATM.

Would go with
1) Aguero
2) Youngs
3) Balmain
4) Fitzgerald
5) De Chaves
6) Croft
7) McCaffrey
8) Pearce
9) Youngs
10) Burns
11) Betham (Was rested against Saracens)/Thompstone
12) Smith
13) Manu
14) Camacho
15) Tait

16) Thacker
17) Ayerza
18) Cole
19) Barrow
20) Crane
21) Harrison
22) Bell/Bai (Injury to Bell i think)
23) Catchpole

[king_carlos]

Ah cheers LT. Has there been any recent news on Bateman or Leo?

Thacker needs a chance at 7 this season. He just isn't going to reach his potential at hooker. Regardless of how well he does around the park he will always be under pressure in the scrum due to his height. With a strong LH who can hold the TH at bay and a TH who can pressure the opposition hooker he can gain parity and strike the ball cleanly. The second his props are under pressure he simply isn't big enough to deal with pressure coming a strong scrummaging hooker.

Yep with those guys out then that must be what we're looking at. Kitch getting a rest would be a good idea but if he is left out the EPS (I can see it happening again frustratingly) then he'll be wanting prove a point. Especially with Kruis and Launchbury going through concussion protocols.

I'd start Niki if he's available.

[formerly known as Sam]

Personally I'd like to see;

Aguero, Youngs, Balmain
Barrow, Fitzgerald
Croft, Pearce, Owen
Harrison, Burns
JDV, Manu
Goneva, Bell, Betham

Bench: Thacker, Ayerza, Cole, De Chaves, McCaffery, Kitto, Smith, Tait.

We can change the midfield if we need to after 60 mins but both those guys need game time to get fit. Youngs should not have to play more than 55 minutes. McCaffery can come on and boss the breakdown if required.

[LondonTiger]

Owen and JDV not in ECC squad

[king_carlos]

Having now seen the game in full after being away for the weekend I thought that Seb was outstanding in the second row on his return to first team action. With Slater out injured and Kitch possibly involved in the 6 Nations it's good timing too.

It was a timely reminder of what he did last season, i.e. he was was good at set-piece, carried regularly and has a very low error count. However I also felt he looked a bit stronger and more physical in contact than he did last year. Perhaps that's down to him being fresh and raring to go but I was impressed.

I'd definitely start him again against Treviso after that performance.

How are guys added to the ERCC squad LT? With Leo and Bateman injured we are one injury away from not having 2 fit hookers in our registered squad. There must surely be some conversations going on about adding Van Vurren to it at least.

[LondonTiger]

3. ELIGIBILITY OF PLAYERS
3.1 Each club must nominate a squad of up to 41 players. A minimum of 10 of the players nominated by the club must be capable of playing in front row forward positions. All such players must, on registration, be fully and properly registered with their club and Union and available to play for the club from that date.

3.2 A club must nominate a squad of between 19 and 23 players for each match.

3.3 A minimum of six front row players must be included in each match squad such that on the first occasion that a replacement is required in each position, a replacement can be made. Where uncontested scrums are ordered due to the departure of a front row player and there is no suitable replacement, the player whose departure caused the uncontested scrums may not be replaced (i.e. the club will be required to play with 14 players).

3.4 In order to reduce the possibility of uncontested scrums, each club may also nominate further front row players, referred to as Emergency Front Row players, who may be registered with EPCR on a match-by-match basis provided that all necessary details of the players have been submitted before 12 noon (GMT) on 22 October 2015. The provision for the nomination of Emergency Front Row players is not intended to allow clubs to improve the quality of their squads, and is designed to cater for illness and/or injury in the relevant positions. The players added to squads will typically come from a club's academy or similar.

3.5 Each club may register up to two additional players during the pool stage, each to replace a player previously registered. If a club registers two additional players, one such player must be a front row player. Additional players must have a three-month contract with the club and must not have played for another club in the tournament. Additional player registrations must be submitted by 12 noon (GMT) on the Tuesday before the match. De-registered players may be re-registered (in place of the relevant additional players) during the pool stage.

3.6 Each club involved in the knockout stage may register up to three further players. If a club registers three further players, one such player must be a front row player. Such registrations must be submitted by 12 noon (GMT) on 31 March 2016. The players in question must not have played for another club in the tournament.

3.7 Each club is permitted a maximum of two 'non-European players' in each match squad.

[king_carlos]

Cheers LT.

"3.4 In order to reduce the possibility of uncontested scrums, each club may also nominate further front row players, referred to as Emergency Front Row players, who may be registered with EPCR on a match-by-match basis provided that all necessary details of the players have been submitted before 12 noon (GMT) on 22 October 2015. The provision for the nomination of Emergency Front Row players is not intended to allow clubs to improve the quality of their squads, and is designed to cater for illness and/or injury in the relevant positions. The players added to squads will typically come from a club's academy or similar."

Given Van Vurren wasn't at the club on 22nd October I guess that means that Farnworth must be our 'emergency front row player' who covers hooker? If OTY goes down I certainly wouldn't want to go into a Champions Cup game with wee Harry and Farnworth as our 2 hookers!

If the deadline to register guys for Saturday is noon today then perhaps an extra hooker may have been added this morning.

That said if only 2 changes can be made during the pool stages then Logo getting included would be priority one and the coaches would likely want JDV in there as well. With Morris in the squad but out for the season plus Roberts, Loamanau and Brugnara registered but unlikely to feature there are certainly guys registered who could be swapped out.

[formerly known as Sam]

I would assume that we've done the paperwork to add JDV to the squad. If Owen isn't registered then McCaffery should be at 7 with Fonua on the bench. It is imperative that we get the five points from this game and key players can be pulled off once this has been achieved.

[nathan]

O'conner out for 6 weeks, o. Williams 8 with a double fracture to his jaw.

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