Ireland v Canada, 19 September

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IRELAND v CANADA
19 September 2015
KO: 14:30 BST
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Touch judges: Pascal Gaüzère (France) & Mike Fraser (New Zealand)
Television match official: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

A. Head to Head

6 Played 6
5 Won 0
1 Drawn 1
0 Lost 5
226 Points 77

B. Recent Form

Sat 30 May 1987
Canada 19 - 46 Ireland

Sun 30 Nov1997
Ireland 33 - 11 Canada

Sat 17 Jun 2000
Canada 27 - 27 Ireland

Sat 8 Nov 2008
Ireland 55 - 0 Canada

Sat 23 May 2009
Canada 6 - 25 Ireland

Sat 15 Jun 2013
Canada 14 - 40 Ireland

C. Teams

IRELAND

[tbc]

CANADA


1. Hubert Buydens – (Unattached/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK
2. Ray Barkwill – (Unattached/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON
3. Doug Wooldridge – (Lindsay RFC/Ontario Blues) Lindsay, ON
4. Brett Beukeboom – (Cornish Pirates) Lindsay, ON
5. Jamie Cudmore, Captain – (Clermont Auvergne) Squamish, BC
6. Kyle Gilmour – (Rotherham Titans/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB
7. John Moonlight – (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Pickering, ON
8. Aaron Carpenter – (Cornish Pirates/Ontario Blues) Brantford, ON
9. Gordon McRorie – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
10. Nathan Hirayama – (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
11. DTH van der Merwe – (Scarlets) Victoria, BC
12. Nick Blevins – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
13. Ciaran Hearn – (Unattached/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL
14. Jeff Hassler – (Ospreys) Okotoks, AB
15. Matt Evans - (Cornish Pirates) Maple Bay, BC

16. Benoit Piffero – (Unattached/Atlantic Rock) Montreal, QC
17. Djustice Sears-Duru – (Oakville Crusaders/Ontario Blues) Oakville, ON
18. Andrew Tiedemann - (Unattached/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB
19. Jebb Sinclair – (London Irish/Atlantic Rock) Fredericton, NB
20. Richard Thorpe – (London Welsh) Beckenham, England
21. Phil Mack – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
22. Liam Underwood – (Balmy Beach RFC/Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON
23. Conor Trainor – (UBCOB Ravens/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC

Unavailable for selection:

Tyler Ardron – (Ospreys) Lakefield, ON
Harry Jones – (Capilano RFC/BC Bears) West Vancouver, BC

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
He has phenomenal pace - but his coach is conserative and would not like any individual display like that. The coach picks the guys who are safe first. That is why Gilroy is not in the squad and Zebo has also changed how he plays with Ireland.

Bring back Kidney I say. Lets go back to being way below average.

Why are you bringing Kidney into it? Kidney was regarded as conservative as well.

Rob Penney made the comment on twitter about Zebo that there were too many brakes being put on Zebo "as the boy can play". I'd imagine Penney would have similar thoughts on Earls who can also play.

Penney, the guy that got run out of Munster? Yep, his views were cherished.

Penney thought Donnacha O'Callaghan could play on the wing too that's why he got run out of town

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
He has phenomenal pace - but his coach is conserative and would not like any individual display like that. The coach picks the guys who are safe first. That is why Gilroy is not in the squad and Zebo has also changed how he plays with Ireland.

Bring back Kidney I say. Lets go back to being way below average.

Why are you bringing Kidney into it? Kidney was regarded as conservative as well.

Rob Penney made the comment on twitter about Zebo that there were too many brakes being  put on Zebo "as the boy can play". I'd imagine Penney would have similar thoughts on Earls who can also play.

Why are you bringing Rob Penney into it? Who cares what he thinks?

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

So now you are saying his only attribute is that he is fast!  

He has phenomenal pace - but his coach is conserative and would not like any individual display like that. The coach picks the guys who are safe first. That is why Gilroy is not in the squad and Zebo has also changed how he plays with Ireland.

He's put on some bulk and is looking a lot more physical but I think it's cost him a touch of pace.I think the bulk is more useful though so it's a good trade off as he's still very quick.

I just don't know about that - he was very fast in the first warmup game. He was flying all over the place. Maybe his legs were a bit tired - it was at the end of the game.

The whole team were blowing hard after 60 mins..hopefully the conditioning means the whole peaking plan over the coming month comes to fruition

Kearney was muttering that he was absolutely knackered.  So much so that he needed to ask around his team-mates to make sure it wasn't just him.  They all felt the game was very fast and knackering.

Alarming news actually when you consider the acrobatic athleticism going on in England with the Duracell Battery boys.  That Canadian game isn't close to the sustained pace better sides will hit us with.

Actually if you look at the Canada game the pace was very high, certainly much higher than any of our warm-up games but probably not as high as what we might face in the KO stages. It was a high-tempo game. Thats what we wanted of course, play a tempo that doesn't give Canada the chance to reorganise.

Also, it was in the Millennium Stadium, which is notoriously stuffy/humid.

High it was...highest it won't be if we get to play established sides.

The sucking for air with many players was a little unsettling considering the preparation time.  Actually the Canadians didn't seem to be sucking so much.

Perhaps, like DOD alludes to, it is pin-pryck accuracy with conditioning towards Italy and France (dicey timing!) - undoubtedly too the closed roof humidity at Millennium aided in the drain.  
But it just was a little uneasy to see what effect those runs and the general pace of the game had on a good few of our players.

We traditionally do kinda suffer most when sides add and add more pace (either a surprise opening period or that second half end game when we tend to cling and cling to small gains)  So I was hoping we'd been addressing that traditional weakness in our game and I really think we'll need much more puff than was on display.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

So now you are saying his only attribute is that he is fast!  

He has phenomenal pace - but his coach is conserative and would not like any individual display like that. The coach picks the guys who are safe first. That is why Gilroy is not in the squad and Zebo has also changed how he plays with Ireland.

He's put on some bulk and is looking a lot more physical but I think it's cost him a touch of pace.I think the bulk is more useful though so it's a good trade off as he's still very quick.

I just don't know about that - he was very fast in the first warmup game. He was flying all over the place. Maybe his legs were a bit tired - it was at the end of the game.

http://www.the42.ie/iain-henderson-joe-schmidt-canada-2336972-Sep2015/

I don't think he'd have lost a foot race from the halfway line to a forward before he bulked up.In fairness Henderson had a slight head start and he's also exceptionally fast for a guy who's going to be a lock.

I do think Earls looks far bigger and stronger these days and that's more important as at this level he won't get nearly as many opportunities to sprint 40 metres compared to the amount of times he can make an impact with a tackle or a carry in traffic.

Notch wrote:One poster criticises a player for executing a difficult pass on the run to an unmarked player which makes the try certain, another poster says he didn't use his pace to finish himself because his coach is conservative and presumably wouldn't like to see a player showing off by running at full tilt. You couldn't make some of the stuff that gets said on here up!

The incident was raised as an example of the enigma that is Keith Earls.

1. The pass was well executed and resulted in a try.
2. There is no such thing as a certain try.
3. Rugby players make handling errors especially at speed.
4. If Earls did have the phenomenal pace that Sine keeps telling us he has then he should never have passed.
5. If Schmidt was conservative he would encourage low risk play, and therefore applaud the keeping the ball in hand option.
6. The Canadians weren't as fit as Ireland and were well beaten that late in the game.
7. Watching the game live (in 3D!) and subsequently on screen, there is no way the Canadian cover offered more threat of catching Earls than the chasing flanker.

The conclusion is that Earls doesn't have the phenomenal pace that he is sometimes attributed as having.

So if the only option open to him was to pass, that was a good call, well executed - zero criticism.
OTOH if Earls choose to pass when he could have made the line, that's a questionable call - justified criticism.

Rational analysis isn't made up, but it does require a modicum of logic.

He's no Andrew Conway or Fionn Carr that's for sure.

He showed the bull a clean pair of heels in training and the rumour mill went into overdrive.

Nah, the cover was always gaining on him. Good decision to pass. Difficult skill; good execution. Game awareness, skill, decision making- good play from him.

We don't have any players with top rank pace. I don't believe Earls was going to make it himself and him recognising that and putting Kearney away with a great pass does him credit.

You can't find anything to criticise him with in that passage of play. He draws the cover like flies to a honeypot and he puts his teammate under the posts.

I was delighted because he usually tucks the ball under his arm and runs into touch, or kicks the ball away.

Yeah exactly. It was the exact opposite of what he's done many times in his career in those situations and for which he is always criticised. Good on him.

The Joe factor. "Just don't keep doing what you're doing - change you."

Other coaches seem to pick players who do things they like and not go near other players that do things they don't like. Joe tries to turn them all into players that he likes - therefore in a small player base country, he has suddenly more to choose from....

That's Joe - common sense man.

SecretFly wrote:The Joe factor.  "Just don't keep doing what you're doing - change you."

Other coaches seem to pick players who do things they like and not go near other players that do things they don't like.  Joe tries to turn them all into players that he likes - therefore in a small player base country, he has suddenly more to choose from....

That's Joe - common sense man.

Exactly - he turned all the outside backs into Fergus McFadden so then he didn't need Fergus anymore.

Notch wrote:Nah, the cover was always gaining on him. Good decision to pass. Difficult skill; good execution. Game awareness, skill, decision making- good play from him.

We don't have any players with top rank pace. I don't believe Earls was going to make it himself and him recognising that and putting Kearney away with a great pass does him credit.

You can't find anything to criticise him with in that passage of play. He draws the cover like flies to a honeypot and he puts his teammate under the posts.

It was a great pass off his left hand and while running at full pace and he waited til the last possible second to throw the pass.Top class piece of play and a great example of how Schmidt raises the skill levels of players when he has enough time to work with them.

On a different note our forwards have begun to pass the ball an awful lot more,this is what will allow us to become a much greater threat in attack,if ball carriers can attract defenders and then shift the ball on space will appear for the backs to exploit.Schmidt has had enough time to work with the players so their skill levels will now be at the level needed to play a more expansive game.

SecretFly wrote:Penney, the guy that got run out of Munster?  Yep, his views were cherished.

The guy who said recently he would love to come back to Munster

Rob Penz ‏@PenzRob Jun 17

@Aoifs2707 Hope all is good with you? I still watch all the Munster games...would love to come back if the circumstances allowed! take care

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Penney, the guy that got run out of Munster?  Yep, his views were cherished.

The guy who said recently he would love to come back to Munster

Rob Penz ‏@PenzRob Jun 17

@Aoifs2707 Hope all is good with you?  I still watch all the Munster games...would love to come back if the circumstances allowed! take care

We'd all welcome him back. I liked him... Munster bosses behind the scenes obviously didn't.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Penney, the guy that got run out of Munster?  Yep, his views were cherished.

The guy who said recently he would love to come back to Munster

Rob Penz ‏@PenzRob Jun 17

@Aoifs2707 Hope all is good with you?  I still watch all the Munster games...would love to come back if the circumstances allowed! take care

We'd all welcome him back.  I liked him... Munster bosses behind the scenes obviously didn't.

No. He got an offer too hard to refuse (which is going to set him up financially for life). He turned down an offer in France as well, so it is well worth his while. Rob said he is also involved in the coaching of the Japan U20s team.

murray kinsella wrote:The Earl of the Ruck

Earls was hugely effective for Ireland last weekend, leading the charge with his 10 first arrivals. There was a dominant hit and seven effective marks among them, while the 27-year-old was similarly efficient with his three second arrivals.

Defensively, Earls was a handful too, winning one turnover and being present on three further occasions. Overall, the left wing had 20 involvements in the rucks in Cardiff and not a single negative one among them.

The flow of the game comes into this of course; Dave Kearney on the other side only had 11 involvements in comparison, but Earls’ power in the hit at ruck time was notable. He appears to have grown as an athlete in the last year or so, and it told at the rucks.
Most importantly, his technique and aggression were excellent, allowing him to excel in this area.

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-canada-rucks-analysis-rwc-15-2347705-Sep2015/?utm_source=twitter_self

First arrivals to the ruck:

10 Keith Earls – 1 dominant, 7 effective, 2 guard
10 Jamie Heaslip – 8 effective, 2 guard
10 Peter O’Mahony – 8 effective, 1 guard, 1 present
9 Paul O’Connell – 8 effective, 1 guard
9 Jack McGrath – 7 effective, 2 ineffective
7 Sean O’Brien – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 1 guard
7 Rory Best – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 1 ineffective
7 Iain Henderson – 1 dominant, 4 effective, 1 guard, 1 present
7 Mike Ross – 6 effective, 1 ineffective
7 Cian Healy – 4 effective, 3 guard
6 Jared Payne – 1 effective, 2 present, 2 ineffective
4 Chris Henry – 3 effective, 1 guard
4 Donnacha Ryan – 4 effective
4 Dave Kearney – 3 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Johnny Sexton – 1 dominant, 1 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Luke Fitzgerald – 2 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Cian Healy – 1 effective, 2 guard
2 Rob Kearney – 1 dominant, 1 effective
2 Conor Murray – 1 dominant, 1 effective
2 Simon Zebo – 2 effective
2 Sean Cronin – 1 effective, 1 guard
2 Nathan White – 2 guard
1 Eoin Reddan – 1 effective

Sin é wrote:

murray kinsella wrote:The Earl of the Ruck

Earls was hugely effective for Ireland last weekend, leading the charge with his 10 first arrivals. There was a dominant hit and seven effective marks among them, while the 27-year-old was similarly efficient with his three second arrivals.

Defensively, Earls was a handful too, winning one turnover and being present on three further occasions. Overall, the left wing had 20 involvements in the rucks in Cardiff and not a single negative one among them.

The flow of the game comes into this of course; Dave Kearney on the other side only had 11 involvements in comparison, but Earls’ power in the hit at ruck time was notable. He appears to have grown as an athlete in the last year or so, and it told at the rucks.
Most importantly, his technique and aggression were excellent, allowing him to excel in this area.

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-canada-rucks-analysis-rwc-15-2347705-Sep2015/?utm_source=twitter_self

First arrivals to the ruck:

10 Keith Earls – 1 dominant, 7 effective, 2 guard
10 Jamie Heaslip – 8 effective, 2 guard
10 Peter O’Mahony – 8 effective, 1 guard, 1 present
9 Paul O’Connell – 8 effective, 1 guard
9 Jack McGrath – 7 effective, 2 ineffective
7 Sean O’Brien – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 1 guard
7 Rory Best – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 1 ineffective
7 Iain Henderson – 1 dominant, 4 effective, 1 guard, 1 present
7 Mike Ross – 6 effective, 1 ineffective
7 Cian Healy – 4 effective, 3 guard
6 Jared Payne – 1 effective, 2 present, 2 ineffective
4 Chris Henry – 3 effective, 1 guard
4 Donnacha Ryan – 4 effective
4 Dave Kearney – 3 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Johnny Sexton – 1 dominant, 1 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Luke Fitzgerald – 2 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Cian Healy – 1 effective, 2 guard
2 Rob Kearney – 1 dominant, 1 effective
2 Conor Murray – 1 dominant, 1 effective
2 Simon Zebo – 2 effective
2 Sean Cronin – 1 effective, 1 guard
2 Nathan White – 2 guard
1 Eoin Reddan – 1 effective

Luke Fitz has been slacking off! Joe will go nuts!

Imagine that, Jamie Heaslip is actually doing some work and not posing around the pitch.

Or he's just loitering at the breakdown to avoid carrying or tackling?

No wonder he never gets injured

So Jack McGrath, Best, Ross, Payne, Dave K, Sexton and Luke must be dropped for the French game. Not effective enough. If they play, we'll lose. No room for sentiment.

SecretFly wrote:So Jack McGrath, Best, Ross, Payne, Dave K, Sexton and Luke must be dropped for the French game.  Not effective enough.  If they play, we'll lose.  No room for sentiment.

I'd say drop the backrow completely and just have Earls there. Ireland don't need try scoring backs..

Some workrate from Donnacha Ryan (Rucking actions per minute of game time)
1.86 Donnacha Ryan
0.67 Chris Henry
0.50 Cian Healy

Only fair to compare him to other subs. According to an interview with him elsewhere, he is faster now than before his injury.

Sin é wrote:

murray kinsella wrote:The Earl of the Ruck

Earls was hugely effective for Ireland last weekend, leading the charge with his 10 first arrivals. There was a dominant hit and seven effective marks among them, while the 27-year-old was similarly efficient with his three second arrivals.

Defensively, Earls was a handful too, winning one turnover and being present on three further occasions. Overall, the left wing had 20 involvements in the rucks in Cardiff and not a single negative one among them.

The flow of the game comes into this of course; Dave Kearney on the other side only had 11 involvements in comparison, but Earls’ power in the hit at ruck time was notable. He appears to have grown as an athlete in the last year or so, and it told at the rucks.
Most importantly, his technique and aggression were excellent, allowing him to excel in this area.

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-canada-rucks-analysis-rwc-15-2347705-Sep2015/?utm_source=twitter_self

First arrivals to the ruck:

10 Keith Earls – 1 dominant, 7 effective, 2 guard
10 Jamie Heaslip – 8 effective, 2 guard
10 Peter O’Mahony – 8 effective, 1 guard, 1 present
9 Paul O’Connell – 8 effective, 1 guard
9 Jack McGrath – 7 effective, 2 ineffective
7 Sean O’Brien – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 1 guard
7 Rory Best – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 1 ineffective
7 Iain Henderson – 1 dominant, 4 effective, 1 guard, 1 present
7 Mike Ross – 6 effective, 1 ineffective
7 Cian Healy – 4 effective, 3 guard
6 Jared Payne – 1 effective, 2 present, 2 ineffective
4 Chris Henry – 3 effective, 1 guard
4 Donnacha Ryan – 4 effective
4 Dave Kearney – 3 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Johnny Sexton – 1 dominant, 1 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Luke Fitzgerald – 2 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Cian Healy – 1 effective, 2 guard
2 Rob Kearney – 1 dominant, 1 effective
2 Conor Murray – 1 dominant, 1 effective
2 Simon Zebo – 2 effective
2 Sean Cronin – 1 effective, 1 guard
2 Nathan White – 2 guard
1 Eoin Reddan – 1 effective

Kinsella says Earls started as a flanker which was news to me but judging by the overall figures ties in.
One of the most interesting things about the stats is that Madigan isn't in any of them (and Healy is mentioned twice in the first arrivals list).

Interesting comments from Heaslip this morning on 42.ie:-

Simon Zeebo is fastest in the squad and reckons Luke Fitzgerald is the most skillful, which must be a p*ss take or else Fitz has slipped him a fiver.

Rates Brad Thorn as the most inspirational leader he's played with ... a wee dig at O'Connell maybe?

Nice one Rodders.  Get the 'dissent in camp' angle started just in time for the bigger games.  That's all we need

Walesonline: Heaslip Headbutts POC in Heated Hooley over Hairdryer.

rodders wrote:Interesting comments from Heaslip this morning on 42.ie:-

Simon Zeebo is fastest in the squad and reckons Luke Fitzgerald is the most skillful, which must be a p*ss take or else Fitz has slipped him a fiver.

Rates Brad Thorn as the most inspirational leader he's played with ... a wee dig at O'Connell maybe?

I seem to recall Brad Thorn having a go at him - something on the lines from Thorn of 'less talk and more push' in the scrum.

Poor from Heaslip though if he has ambitions of replacing POC as captain to pick all of his Leinster mates.

SecretFly wrote:Nice one Rodders.  Get the 'dissent in camp' angle started just in time for the bigger games.  That's all we need

Walesonline: Heaslip Headbutts POC in Heated Hooley over Hairdryer.

Hey don't shoot the messenger fly!

Apparently when quizzed on what he thought about O'Connell''s leadership qualities, Heaslip answered "who?".

Too late for Brad to find the Irish Granny though.....


BTW, are we playing Romania at the weekend? How come we're still using this derelict Canadian site to chat/sneer on?

We're the quietest fans on these boards now....something good must be brewing.

Interviewer: "And best coach you've played under?"

Heaslip: "Probably Eddie. He was more ball and chain and that's the approach I've always liked because of my S&M propen.... profpens............ curiosity.
Joe is great but a little soft on the fringes, and the lesser players in the squad can use that to negatively influence him into picking them when they aren't really up to it. Rory would be good at that. He knows how to do that Puppy-dog-lost-its-toy look when Joe feels like dropping him."