Ireland vs Romania, 27 September

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IRELAND v ROMANIA
27 September 2015
KO: 16:45 BST
Wembley Stadium, London
Live on ITV1 (United Kingdom) and TV3 (Republic of Ireland)

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant Referee 1; Romain Poite (France)
Assistant Referee 2; Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

Teams

IRELAND



15. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Jared Payne (Ulster)
12. Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
9. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)

1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
3. Nathan White (Connacht)
4. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
6. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) captain

Replacements;

16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
18. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
19. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster)
20. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
21. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
22. Paddy Jackson (Dungannon)
23. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)

ROMANIA



15. Catalin Fercu
14. Adrian Apostol
13. Paula Kinikinilau
12. Csaba Gal
11. Ionut Botezatu
10. Michael Wiringi
9. Valentin Calafeteanu

1. Andrei Ursache
2. Andrei Radoi
3. Paulica Ion
4. Valentin Poparlan
5. Ovidiu Tonita
6. Viorel Lucaci
7. Mihai Macovei (c)
8. Daniel Carpo

Replacements

16. Mihaita Lazar
17. Otar Turashvili
18. Alexandru Tarus
19. Johannes van Heerden
20.Stelian Burcea
21. Florin Surugiu
22. Florin Ionita
23. Florin Vlaicu

Head to Head

Played; 8
Ireland Won; 8
Romania Won; 0
Draws; 0

Last 5 Meetings

Ireland 43 - 12 Romania
26th November 2005
Lansdowne Road, Dublin

Ireland 45 - 17 Romania
11th October 2003
Rugby World Cup 2003, Pool A, Match 3
Central Coast Stadium, Gosford

Ireland 39 - 8 Romania
7th September 2002
Thomond Park, Limerick

Romania 3 - 37 Ireland
2nd June 2001
Bucharest

Ireland 44 - 14 Romania
15th October 1999
Rugby World Cup 1999, Pool E, Match 27
Lansdowne Road, Dublin

VinceWLB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Romania are a damn good team and could really give Italy a run. They really show the benefits of having a fully pro domestic league.

It wasn't that long ago that they were pushing to enter the (at the time) 5N, at the end Italy got the favours because of geographical reasons. In the meantime Georgia overtook them and are now next in line to join the top tier tournament. Such is the fate of Romanian rugby.

Unfortunately the collapse of communism meant the collapse of the huge state funding rugby in Romania used to get. They have greatly regressed since their Glory Days.

VinceWLB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Romania are a damn good team and could really give Italy a run. They really show the benefits of having a fully pro domestic league.

It wasn't that long ago that they were pushing to enter the (at the time) 5N, at the end Italy got the favours because of geographical reasons. In the meantime Georgia overtook them and are now next in line to join the top tier tournament. Such is the fate of Romanian rugby.

According to Romanian posters on other forums, rugby took a huge hit in playing numbers when they left the USSR and in turn they had a massive downturn in performances. When they almost failed to qualify for the 2011 world cup it gave the Romanian union a huge shot up the backside to reverse the worrying trend and the union and government has been pumping money into the sport ever since. They have made a remarkable turnaround in performances since 2010.

Just joined this thread so don't know what has or hasn't been said.
I didn't see the whole game but, from what I did see, Ireland looked pretty clinical without being 100% ruthless. They are ticking over quite nicely and, despite an iffy build-up, I think they could go far especially if they stay relatively injury free. I like their style of rugby too.

Guys in the event that Rob Kearney is out for the big game against France - Schmidt's statement on the injury after the match wasn't hugely promising...

I suppose we are looking at....

15 - Zebo
14 - Bowe/D.Kearney
11 - Earls

I think after Bowe looked a lot better today we might be better starting to him as Dave is a more versatile bench option.

But if Kearney is out for any significant length of time and we need to replace him, who would we bring in?

Also, is Payne going to 15 where he has played most of his rugby for Ulster an option?

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/rob-kearney-injury/310377

God, the quote is a lot better sounding than the build up to it, to be honest.

"I think Rob was involved in a high speed play immediately after coming onto the pitch. Just in scoring the try, he’s just jarred himself up a little bit. We hope it’s not too much. I guess the next 24 to 48 hours will tell whether he’s done anything that would be telling for next week. We would hope at this stage that he’s OK."

There seems to be some hope there, in my opinion.

Hope so - Kearney has hit this competition running!!!!  Real powerful Authority.  And now he might be gone for our biggest games and beyond......  Fingers cross.

SecretFly wrote:God, the quote is a lot better sounding than the build up to it, to be honest.

"I think Rob was involved in a high speed play immediately after coming onto the pitch. Just in scoring the try, he’s just jarred himself up a little bit. We hope it’s not too much. I guess the next 24 to 48 hours will tell whether he’s done anything that would be telling for next week. We would hope at this stage that he’s OK."

There seems to be some hope there, in my opinion.

Hope so - Kearney has hit this competition running!!!!  Real powerful Authority.  And now he might be gone for our biggest games and beyond......  Fingers cross.

I hope you are right.  Zebo has looked very strong at 15, especially in an attacking sense.  But with the organized approach we will take to the France game, Rob is certainly the man we would want at the back.

On that basis, who would your two wings be if Rob was starting at 15 against France?  Very tough to leave one of Zebo and Earls out, but they are both really options at 11 when it comes to wing play.

At this point I wouldn't be too concerned, going by what Schmidt has said. Kearney didn't look all that bothered with the injury, so I have reason to remain optimistic. Maybe he will miss the Italian game.

If Kearney is injured then Zebo will start in his place, with Earls and Bowe on the wings, I would think, with Fitz on the bench v France.

Like him or loath him Zebo is currently our most creative player (outside Sexton) which is concerning in the overall scheme of things. The possible problem with the French game is that if we get sucked into a slug fest with them it might turn out not so good.

Of course the other thing is we all seem to be thinking the Italian game is a foregone conclusion....it should be (especially if Parisse is out and Ghirardini looks unlikely as well) but....well erm...there isnt a hope in hell they will beat us right?

I think it'll need the Italy game to finally decide on wings.  Let's face it, the first two sides presented their elements of difficulty but neither of them were ever going to threaten a victory (unless a fluke of injuries to our boys and/or a truly out-of-character 'Japanese' performance from them)

So I really think we need that Italian game to see how things go.  I felt today was relatively accomplished, but there were also a lot of needless mistakes (that would have been punished by much better sides) - and more often than not pressured by our own desire to play at speed (sometimes) and losing accuracy rather than anything the Romanians were doing.  I still think we need a lot of tightening up in phase work and I still think our general fitness levels are still suspect in comparison to considered rivals.

ME-109 wrote:Like him or loath him Zebo is currently our most creative player (outside Sexton) which is concerning in the overall scheme of things. The possible problem with the French game is that if we get sucked into a slug fest with them it might turn out not so good.

Of course the other thing is we all seem to be thinking the Italian game is a foregone conclusion....it should be (especially if Parisse is out and Ghirardini looks unlikely as well) but....well erm...there isnt a hope in hell they will beat us right?

They have looked really, really poor thus far. They got walloped by France and could have been turned over by Canada....they won by 5 points against Canada, which included a last minute 3 point penalty. This is a Canada team who we wrapped up the bonus point try against by half time. It would take a monumental implosion within the Ireland team to get turned over by this Italy team.

Artful_Dodger wrote: It would take a monumental implosion within the Ireland team to get turned over by this Italy team.

It would................ wouldn't it.     We've done a few in our time.  Let's not tempt fate even talking about it

SecretFly wrote:I think it'll need the Italy game to finally decide on wings.  Let's face it, the first two sides presented their elements of difficulty but neither of them were ever going to threaten a victory (unless a fluke of injuries to our boys and/or a truly out-of-character 'Japanese' performance from them)

So I really think we need that Italian game to see how things go.  I felt today was relatively accomplished, but there were also a lot of needless mistakes (that would have been punished by much better sides) - and more often than not pressured by our own desire to play at speed (sometimes) and losing accuracy rather than anything the Romanians were doing.  I still think we need a lot of tightening up in phase work and I still think our general fitness levels are still suspect in comparison to considered rivals.

On the point about phase play, the lineout was really disappointing. We had two very kickable penalties early on and on both occasions went to the lineout. On the first we were penalised for accidental obstruction and on the second we gave position away through a collapsed maul. Similarly the strike moves from the lineout were telegraphed. I think we can put a lot of this down to two things - 1) No Paul O'Connell in the lineout and 2) No Johnny Sexton running the strike moves when the ball went to midfield.

Granted, even without those two leaders when it comes to mauls and strike moves, we should have done better.

Italy certainly have a hope of beating us, and France have an even bigger hope. But I would back this side to win those two games if we perform to our potential. I know we're good enough, doesn't guarantee anything, but we have come through tight games and we have come through really physical games under Schmidt and we have a nice bit of death in our squad too. We can be beaten, but we should be confident.

Just read the stat that Chris Henry made the most carries out of anybody and the most tackles out of everybody. I don't think we drop either of our flankers so he'll still miss out, but it's reassuring to have that kind of quality as back up.

Matt Williams on TV3 was pretty much backing up our eirebilly's views on Payne. Does Cave or Fitzy have any chance of usurping him? His proven defensive solidity will save him I'd say. But he's really not playing brilliantly when in possession.

Just got back from the game, fantastic atmosphere and great day out. Was behind one of the posts (Ireland attacking our corner in the second half) so can't say too much definitively, but have caught up with the highlights. If it's all way off don't put me in the stocks. Key points:

- Zebo and Earls really shone as creative lights in the team. Of course it was Romania, but both very composed, took whatever chances they had well, and opened up spaces for other players. Zebo's pass for Earls try was outstanding.
- Tommy Bowe finished his tries well, but was feck all involved aside from two ~10 metre finishes put on a platter for him. He is a fantastic finisher and can always be trusted under the high ball but I think Ireland need to consider what the other wingers bring, which to my mind is more creativity and threat of a break.
- I like Darren Cave in the 12 role, and think he is a very good option there. If Kearney is out for Italy (which I hope he isn't), Payne to 15 and Cave in at 12, with Henshaw at 13 is what I'd want to see. Best use of resources. Payne at 13 was not at his best today
- Great to see Henry come back from his year with that try. Thought he had a good game and SOB may be a casualty to him in the starting line-up in the near future.
- Toner got through his work and the lineout went well, but I think Henderson is now ahead of him in the pecking order, and offers so much more, most obviously in the secure, go forward ball he carries.
- Madigan is an incredibly frustrating player. So solid in his kicking off the tee today, but sometimes his decision making is badly wanting, and he got away with it a few times today when better opposition would have made hay. I cant remember who said it on here but they summed it up perfectly that Madigan is either 4/10 or 9/10, sometimes in the same game, but Paddy Jackson is a solid 7/10.

Some on here have labelled me a hater of Payne but in fairness, I rate the guy just not as a 13.
He is vaunted on here for his control and awareness but during the last 3-4 games he has played, he has shown none of this and looks a little lost at 13. Defensively solid (although a few missed tackles are creeping into his game) but with ball in hand, his decisions look off. He times his kicks poorly (too late or over cooks them), he runs sideways taking defenders with him and removing overlaps, he often over runs his support lines and he doesn't seem very vocal in the defensive line.

I have made it no secret that I believe that Cave 12 and Henshaw at 13 are in my opinion the best centre pairing Ireland have. If Cave or Henshaw are not fit then I believe that Earls should go to 13 as even the most one eyed supporter must see what Earls is doing, his runs, his awareness for offloading and his defence.

I say Earls to 13 as I believe that Zebo would be better utilised at 11 with Kearney (or Payne if Kearney unfit) at 15 but if Earls is to play 11 (with Cave and Henshaw 12-13) then its a straight fight between Kearney and Zebo which leaves Payne on the bench or not even making the 23.

Bowe had a very good game yesterday but it would be extremely harsh on Dave Kearney to lose the 14 spot as he has been outstanding there.

My ideal backline and one that I feel will do well is :

09 : Murray (Redden bench)
10 : Sexton (Jackson bench as he controls the game far better than Madigan)
11 : Earls (has been excellent there)
12 : Cave
13 : Henshaw
14 : Dave Kearney
15 : Rob Kearney (Zebo as back-up)

Job done - pretty happy with this.

Was very impressed with Zebo and Earls and Bowe looked to have turned a corner with this - wasn't back to his best but 2 good finishes will give him confidence and made some super catches under the high ball.

I believe he is still first choice and Joe is holding him back for France and the knock out stages and is a few weeks behind some of the other backs fitness wise.

Henry was the standout player for me and must be pushing O'Brien for a starting place.

Generally I think the side don't look as fit as we did in the 6N or up there with England, Scotland or Wales - quite a lot of guys huffing and puffing which is worrying. Not sure they have got this preparation right at all but will see in the next 3 weeks.

On the up side we look pretty slick with the ball in hand, individually everyone is performing, the scrum is good, no serious injuries but we will have to step it up a lot in the next few weeks.

Argentina looking very strong too - much better than France so things will get incrementally harder from here in.

As I expected though England are being found out and I expect the SF will be against either Australia or SA who could drop to this side of the draw if Scotland win their group.

rodders wrote:Job done - pretty happy with this.

Was very impressed with Zebo and Earls and Bowe looked to have turned a corner with this - wasn't back to his best but 2 good finishes will give him confidence and made some super catches under the high ball.

I believe he is still first choice and Joe is holding him back for France and the knock out stages and is a few weeks behind some of the other backs fitness wise.

Henry was the standout player for me and must be pushing O'Brien for a starting place.

Generally I think the side don't look as fit as we did in the 6N or up there with England, Scotland or Wales - quite a lot of guys huffing and puffing which is worrying. Not sure they have got this preparation right at all but will see in the next 3 weeks.

On the up side we look pretty slick with the ball in hand, individually everyone is performing, the scrum is good, no serious injuries but we will have to step it up a lot in the next few weeks.

Argentina looking very strong too - much better than France so things will get incrementally harder from here in.

As I expected though England are being found out and I expect the SF will be against either Australia or SA who could drop to this side of the draw if Scotland win their group.  

Was away yesterday so just watched the replay. Only things to add is our fitness is a serious concern. Also Healy had his worst ever game for Ireland. Go knocked on 3-4 times, gave away at least one silly penalty and besides 1 run was poor in loose. Solid in scrum.

Was very happy for Earls. He is and always has been a try machine. Great player. Zebo did really well too. Great pass for one try and unlucky not to bag one himself.

It was also good to see Chris Henry play so well. What a player to have in the squad. I would be tempted to start him at 7 SOB at 6 and Heaslip at 8.

Overall Ireland werent that impressive though. I dont think we have learned anything form the first two games.

There's no more easy games indeed Rodders, the learning curve ends here and I'm not entirely sure what to think. It must be so difficult to go out there and perform some of what you know to 80% of how you can perform it. It must be so much easier to just go out and play to your very best but we all know Joe is holding back the tactics and the players.
I know we are a much better side than Italy so barring some kind of 2007-like chokage we should sail past them with more of a look at ticking the boxes, crossing the t's and maybe even dotting a few i's. The first time we see Joe's 1stXV performing to the actual match winning plan will be against France, this is when even you (Eirebilly) will feel a deep sense of satisfaction with Joe's way I fell we're better than France even if France decide to turn up on the day. I fully believe this Ireland side will have the nous to do the job required and get past France.
With that final pool win out of the way we'll be facing Argentina and that's when we will really know we're in a world cup. They look to be very much on their world cup form again and they will take a little more force to be removed from our path to glory.

I really feel the team are just bursting to let loose and I hope the rest of the team can find the same kind of form within themselves that Earls and Zebo have in spades. I'm a little worried that Payne and Henshaw haven't had any time together in the midfield and we can only hope they can slot together without a hiccup.

I think Schmidt has done a great job of encouraging competition amoungst the squad. It looks like all wingers are playing their skins off to force their way into the team.

It does look like we have one of the strongest most cohesive squads ever.

We will probably get smashed by France.

Healy looks some weeks away from fitness, Joe is gambling on being in the latter stages and giving guys a hit out.

If it works it is a stroke of genius otherwise they will regret not booking a trip to spala!

Rob Kearney pulling up too - Toner down with cramp. The main players are clearly still not up to full fitness, with the exception of guys like Dave Kearney, Earl's, Cave, Henderson etc. - obviously they started training earlier but a few guys look way off so hope they have got this right.

Italy look poor on the plus side but in 2 weeks things get serious! France aren't great but if we can't out work them then we will struggle.

Pete330v2 wrote:There's no more easy games indeed Rodders, the learning curve ends here and I'm not entirely sure what to think. It must be so difficult to go out there and perform some of what you know to 80% of how you can perform it. It must be so much easier to just go out and play to your very best but we all know Joe is holding back the tactics and the players.

I'm pretty happy with the tactics Pete - the execution isn't 100% but things are clicking well and the skill levels look good so clearly they have done a lot of work with the ball.

I do worry that we made a mistake not taking the player into a training camp - we were the fittest side in the 6N but this tactic of letting the players train at their provinces was a risk and looking the the physical fitness of several players I don't think this is worked - guys are tiring after 40-50 min, players re going down with cramp and there is a lot of huffing and puffing.

This is a strategy they have taken, so presume they know what they are doing but do fear that there is still a hangover from 2007 and that the IRFU have thrown the baby out with the bath water by deciding against overseas camps.

Overall am happy with what I've seen performance wise but concerned that key players like Sexton and POC don't look like they could last 80min and the big games are coming up.

I mean we are in a better place than Wales who look to have over done it but would like to see certain guys look fitter than they do - POC, Toner, Payne, Bowe, Kearney, SOB, Best in particular....

So the huff'n'puff aspect of our performances come back to prominence in the posts of quite a few above.

For me this has always been the big factor with Ireland.  Not just now but always.  We still look off the kind of fitness/stamina levels in general (a few exceptions - Zebo as an example) of teams in our class level (England, Wales, Australia, even Scotland).  
We seem to really suffer when either we decide to up the tempo ourselves or we're forced to do it by opponents coming on to us.
Healy was pounding heavy-footed around the park and is that really the level a central player needs to be at a week or so from a crunch WC game?  Whoever is in charge of our fitness preparations (and Schmidt himself must have a keen interest) then they seem to be cutting this 'form building' trick very fine indeed.  But you look at Joe and he never seems to be concerned about that huff'n'puff aspect of his player's performances. So it's a quiz.

In the first half yesterday, there were gulps of pace, but acres of waddle and pause.  I think the Romanians were confused as much as anything else.  I think they were expecting something much more dynamic hitting them and they waited and waited but the Irish weren't overly interested.  We must be an extremely frustrating side to prepare for and maybe we truly are a GREAT side, because sometimes you look at the scoreboard and you wonder how we're doing it considering how disinterested some players often look.

This is just so hard to read.  We're either bluffing the bejaysus out of everyone with the wheezing and strolling or we're yet again too casually on the way to some embarrassing losses.

SecretFly wrote:So the huff'n'puff aspect of our performances come back to prominence in the posts of quite a few above.

For me this has always been the big factor with Ireland.  Not just now but always.

Yeah not sure i agree fly - I believe we've been the fittest side in the NH for the last 2 seasons.

Our ability to defend for long periods and take teams through phases is a big part of our success - we aren't the fastest or most powerful side so like the ABs work rate, fitness and technique is key to us being competitive with the likes of England, Wales, SA, France, Australia etc. who have more naturally powerful ball carriers and strike runners.

My concern is if we've dropped off a level and other sides have improved then that could be a leveller against some of these teams we'd normally expect to breakdown over the 80 min.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:So the huff'n'puff aspect of our performances come back to prominence in the posts of quite a few above.

For me this has always been the big factor with Ireland.  Not just now but always.

Yeah not sure i agree fly - I believe we've been the fittest side in the NH for the last 2 seasons.

Our ability to defend for long periods and take teams through phases is a big part of our success -  

My concern is if we've dropped off a level and other sides have improved then that could be a leveller against some of these teams we'd normally expect to breakdown over the 80 min.  

Away we go again.  Even when we agree, we disagree, rodders

Well let me re-word it.  

Defence preparedness is a different form of resilience and it requires different kinds of fitness/strength levels.  It is impact resistance and quick fire return to position after being on the ground, and it's a lot of concentration (energy draining too).  But it doesn't involve a lot of extended sprints.  Plus - the very nature of defensive perfection means that you are using up bucket loads of finite 80min energy.  So when it comes to the chase (and we might need to chase!), you logically have less of it.

I don't think we were fitter than England or Wales in the 6N.  We had our gameplan and the players were geared up physically to play it.  But when teams tried to keep us mobile and tried to stretch us and tire us, they often made hay and had us all puffing'n'panting.  We don't get close to the scientific levels Wales do (and now England do).  

Just look at how Wales can lose so many players and still throw out replacements that have the same thrust and dynamism.  It's not chance and it's not players just luckily in top form - it's a factory.  Gatland insists on readiness to go beyond the 80 at full belt from all his players in the squad.  Now yes, there is an argument that he can over-do it and pay the consequences.  But over the years, you could have the argument that we often under-do it and value the science too little.   

What Wales or England might lack in technique or subtlety, they make up for in the ability to sustain a high tempo chance game of offload and hope.  A game that can kill us off easily enough considering how we thrive on close-run wins.

GunsGerms wrote:Was very happy for Earls. He is and always has been a try machine. Great player. Zebo did really well too. Great pass for one try and unlucky not to bag one himself.

It was also good to see Chris Henry play so well. What a player to have in the squad. I would be tempted to start him at 7 SOB at 6 and Heaslip at 8.

Overall Ireland werent that impressive though. I dont think we have learned anything form the first two games.

Quick someone call emergency services...Guns is clearly not well.

We had plenty of energy in hammering Scotland in the final game of our 6N's, after just having playing against Italy, France, Wales and England. I think Ireland were as fit as any of the others.

We don't know what the midweek training was like before the Romanian game. The guys playing yesterday may have been a bit fatigued if the training over the last couple of weeks has been upped a level. Maybe Schmidt wanted the guys playing v Romania to test their tired bodies? I don't know, but it would help explain why a few looked slightly off the pace.

Munchkin wrote:We had plenty of energy in hammering Scotland in the final game of our 6N's, after just having playing against Italy, France, Wales and England. I think Ireland were as fit as any of the others.

We don't know what the midweek training was like before the Romanian game. The guys playing yesterday may have been a bit fatigued if the training over the last couple of weeks has been upped a level. Maybe Schmidt wanted the guys playing v Romania to test their tired bodies? I don't know, but it would help explain why a few looked slightly off the pace.

Could be and I hope so.

wolfball wrote:

rodders wrote:Job done - pretty happy with this.

Was very impressed with Zebo and Earls and Bowe looked to have turned a corner with this - wasn't back to his best but 2 good finishes will give him confidence and made some super catches under the high ball.

I believe he is still first choice and Joe is holding him back for France and the knock out stages and is a few weeks behind some of the other backs fitness wise.

Henry was the standout player for me and must be pushing O'Brien for a starting place.

Generally I think the side don't look as fit as we did in the 6N or up there with England, Scotland or Wales - quite a lot of guys huffing and puffing which is worrying. Not sure they have got this preparation right at all but will see in the next 3 weeks.

On the up side we look pretty slick with the ball in hand, individually everyone is performing, the scrum is good, no serious injuries but we will have to step it up a lot in the next few weeks.

Argentina looking very strong too - much better than France so things will get incrementally harder from here in.

As I expected though England are being found out and I expect the SF will be against either Australia or SA who could drop to this side of the draw if Scotland win their group.  

Was away yesterday so just watched the replay. Only things to add is our fitness is a serious concern. Also Healy had his worst ever game for Ireland. Go knocked on 3-4 times, gave away at least one silly penalty and besides 1 run was poor in loose. Solid in scrum.

I think Healy being forced into the team on reputation is not good for him or Ireland. In the 6N this year as well he was trying to forced it too much, and this lead to him spilling in contact or getting isolated quite a bit similar to yesterday, which could be more damaging against a better side. I know it is his first start after a long spell out but I really think McGrath should be starting for Italy and France, the team can't be waiting for Healy to play himself to form.

rodders wrote:

Munchkin wrote:We had plenty of energy in hammering Scotland in the final game of our 6N's, after just having playing against Italy, France, Wales and England. I think Ireland were as fit as any of the others.

We don't know what the midweek training was like before the Romanian game. The guys playing yesterday may have been a bit fatigued if the training over the last couple of weeks has been upped a level. Maybe Schmidt wanted the guys playing v Romania to test their tired bodies? I don't know, but it would help explain why a few looked slightly off the pace.

Could be and I hope so.

I seem to remember Schmidt saying something about concentrating more on fitness levels halfway through the warm ups. I might have imagined it though Maybe look later to see if I can find it.

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Was very happy for Earls. He is and always has been a try machine. Great player. Zebo did really well too. Great pass for one try and unlucky not to bag one himself.

It was also good to see Chris Henry play so well. What a player to have in the squad. I would be tempted to start him at 7 SOB at 6 and Heaslip at 8.

Overall Ireland werent that impressive though. I dont think we have learned anything form the first two games.

Quick someone call emergency services...Guns is clearly not well.

I have never said he is a bad player. He usually isnt as good as your gushing suggests he is though. Its all relative.

SecretFly wrote:

In the first half yesterday, there were gulps of pace, but acres of waddle and pause.  I think the Romanians were confused as much as anything else.  I think they were expecting something much more dynamic hitting them and they waited and waited but the Irish weren't overly interested.  We must be an extremely frustrating side to prepare for and maybe we truly are a GREAT side, because sometimes you look at the scoreboard and you wonder how we're doing it considering how disinterested some players often look.

This is just so hard to read.  We're either bluffing the bejaysus out of everyone with the wheezing and strolling or we're yet again too casually on the way to some embarrassing losses.

Ireland were clearly holding back yesterday. Compared the way they attacked compared to the way they attacked Canada. Against Canada they were holding the defenders in by using clever lines of running etc. Yesterday it was just over and back which was easy for Romania to defend. In the first half they did use the rugby league style diamond formation a bit but not much. They used it a lot against Canada.

I'd agree that they've never looked like the fittest team going. The reason I think that is mainly down to the times they've faced France in recent seasons. France are not the fittest side going, we're told, but they always finish strongly against Ireland. Maybe that's a mental thing, who knows.

Marshes wrote:I think Healy being forced into the team on reputation is not good for him or Ireland. In the 6N this year as well he was trying to forced it too much, and this lead to him spilling in contact or getting isolated quite a bit similar to yesterday, which could be more damaging against a better side. I know it is his first start after a long spell out but I really think McGrath should be starting for Italy and France, the team can't be waiting for Healy to play himself to form.

I'd say the plan in this world cup is to use him as an impact sub and maybe give him a start later in the tournament. His handling - just holding onto the ball - in the last 2 games has been woeful but that's easy to fix.

Healy obviously isn't match fit but is getting there.
Strauss and Ryan are also both getting visibly better with game time.

I can't believe Cave has so much following. IMHO he was fairly anonymous for most of the game and when he makes a break of note he yet again shows he doesn't have the pace to score. I'm not a fan of Fitz either but he has to be a better option at 12 than Cave until Henshaw gets back.

Zebo is reveling in his role at 15, and that's twice now he's thrown those long mis-pass assists. His timing was slightly off for the assist to Bowe's first but was spot on for Kearney's. Earls did show after all that he has acceleration and that's exactly what I want to see from the winger rather than not backing himself.

I though Cave played pretty well - was quiet in the first half but got better as the game went on.

I'm not a massive fan of him as a 13 but for me he's the best back up to Henshaw at 12 and Payne at 13, so is there on merit.

If Luke Fitzgerald made 2 line breaks they'd give him the freedom of Dublin

Think Healy dropping the ball may have something to do with his hand not being up to scratch yet. In an interview last week he said there's always trouble rebuilding the smaller muscles in your arm etc. His work in the loose may not be up to his lofty standards - but having said that I don't think it matters so much, because I think he's our most powerful loose head in the scrum. Schmidt (in press conference last week) mentioned Healy has to be retrained in the scrum, told to go at less than 100% to prevent a wheeling penalty. Earlier this season against Bath in the HC, he physically drove prop Palma-Newport up and completely out of the scrum, airborne! I have never seen that done before. He certainly got the better of his Romanian counterpart yesterday in what was billed as an area of concern for Ireland. In the 6n's France probably just about shaded our scrum featuring McGrath. It seems completely reasonable to me to give Healy all the time possible to clean up his cobwebs in the loose, because he'll probably start against France.

I don't buy into Cave yet. Matt Williams and Wood on TV3 were backing him to start against Italy following the game. Williams in particular seems to have a real problem with Payne. Personally I don't see it. Cave was able to make an outside break or two against a tiring Romania - but I'm quite sure he won't have the same chances against a better team.

I see Devon Toner topped Ireland's tackle count once again. I know he is not as physical as Henderson who may start v Italy but Toner does offer more than just a good lineout operator.

rodders wrote:I though Cave played pretty well - was quiet in the first half but got better as the game went on.

I'm not a massive fan of him as a 13 but for me he's the best back up to Henshaw at 12 and Payne at 13, so is there on merit.

If Luke Fitzgerald made 2 line breaks they'd give him the freedom of Dublin

You know deep down inside you that I am right about Payne

Cave - Henshaw is the way forward now

Not sure about the story with R Kearney. Looked to be a bit of a dead leg when he was scoring his try, will be surprised if it is anything more serious.

Earls played really well, as did Zebo. Bowe looked decent. The back 3 were always going to look good against the Romanians. None of them had to do much from a defensive point of view.

Centres were solid but relatively quiet.

Madigan showed us why we need Sexton fit for this campaign. Thought Jackson did better when he came on but does versatility keep Madigan ahead of him on the bench as centre cover.

Reddan was solid and, I thought, kept a good tempo. Ball presentation to him in the most part was fairly good.

Backrow showed they could all perform the jobs assigned. Jordi can fill a role, Henry can be a nuisance at the breakdown. Thought Heaslip led the pack very well while he was on the field.

Our tight five controlled the Romanian tight five which was their area of strength. Toner's ability to make a lineout functionable shouldn't be underestimated. Healy was rusty but was chop tackled almost immediately any time he took the ball. Strauss and Cronin were okay. I actually thought Furlong did a better job than White at tighthead in the game... did he nip ahead for the bench spot there?

Very good atmosphere at the game. Won't say great because there wasn't that nervous tingling of a tight match when you are wishing your team to win but worried about the opposition... we never had to worry about the opposition.

Roll on Italy.

eirebilly wrote:

rodders wrote:I though Cave played pretty well - was quiet in the first half but got better as the game went on.

I'm not a massive fan of him as a 13 but for me he's the best back up to Henshaw at 12 and Payne at 13, so is there on merit.

If Luke Fitzgerald made 2 line breaks they'd give him the freedom of Dublin

You know deep down inside you that I am right about Payne

Cave - Henshaw is the way forward now

There's something altogether indigenous about that that doesn't sit easy with me with that - since those English fellas Maggsie and Hendo retired the natives have been hogging the midfield spots.

#justice4jared

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Not sure about the story with R Kearney.  Looked to be a bit of a dead leg when he was scoring his try, will be surprised if it is anything more serious.

Pulled his glute muscle and was getting scans today. I'd imagine they will have Felix Jones on standby if he's out of the tournament but probably they'll chance it with Zeebs and K2 and see if he makes it back....

thebandwagonsociety wrote: Thought Heaslip led the pack very well while he was on the field.

There was a drop off in intensity after a while until POC came on and everyone seemed to up their game again.

Matt Williams on TV3 really doesn't rate Payne and thinks Cave should be there. Woody wasn't too impressed either with Payne.

I think it was Stringer who said that he seems to be hesitent in his decision making which doesn't bode well against better opposition.

I hope people are now beginning to see the benefits of having a few speed merchants on the pitch (Zebo & Earls). Lack of pace (even if he had decent acceleration) has always been Darren Cave's downfall. If you are pacy you can get away with a lot (for example, Fergus McFadden) - you can't coach that.

I would love to see a backline of 11 Zebo, 12 Henshaw, 13 Earls, 14 Bowe & 15 Kearney. I'd pick Bowe over D Kearney at this stage because Bowe is just a super finisher (as well as being good in the air) and he seems to be better a bit of form back. He would also intimidate the opposition more. *

(Had to laugh at extract from Stephen Ferris's book about how ROG (or his reputation) put the fear of god into him when he was a young fella!).

Sin é wrote:Matt Williams on TV3 really doesn't rate Payne and thinks Cave should be there. Woody wasn't too impressed either with Payne.

I dont think anyone said they dont rate Payne.

Sin é wrote:Matt Williams on TV3 really doesn't rate Payne and thinks Cave should be there. Woody wasn't too impressed either with Payne.

I think it was Stringer who said that he seems to be hesitent in his decision making which doesn't bode well against better opposition.

Maybe Strings should have hesitated before throwing that intercept against Romania in 2007.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Matt Williams on TV3 really doesn't rate Payne and thinks Cave should be there. Woody wasn't too impressed either with Payne.

I think it was Stringer who said that he seems to be hesitent in his decision making which doesn't bode well against better opposition.

Maybe Strings should have hesitated before throwing that intercept against Georgia in 2007.

FTFY

The TV3 panel have their thoughts on Payne, but you also have Gordon D'Arcy who thinks Payne may be the second most important player in the entire team according a recent column. Schmidt also singled the centre partnership out for praise after the game. Plenty of other current and former players, pundits and supporters I've seen rate him super-highly.

For me, I think a lot of pundits have a problem with Paynes accent not his style of play and you have to filter the ones that are genuine critics of his from the ones who would be gushing with praise had he been born in Mayo or somewhere. There are people who are genuinely critics of him as a player then there are those for whom a non-Irish player has to be Christian Cullen and Brian O'Driscoll rolled into one to merit selection over a good Irish player.

I would have thought Matt Williams would have had more sympathy with someone who's clearly from down under masquerading as an Irishman

Payne's kicking out of hand has been bad but he has done plenty of good things. I dont see any sense in dropping him at this stage.

Yeah, tbh, I don't see any player who can come in and do what he does as a link player, defender, defensive organiser and ball carrier. I view Payne as a stopgap while other players come through. Sooner or later someone is going to take his shirt, I just don't believe the players we have are better than him atm. There's McCloskey, Olding, Henshaw is still developing- his days are numbered for sure.

Against Romania he kicked twice and both times it was poorly executed, but both times we had penalty advantage so I don't have a problem with using penalty advantage for a risky/difficult kick. In the Canada game he kicked poorly in open play which is much less forgivable.