Ireland vs Romania, 27 September

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IRELAND v ROMANIA
27 September 2015
KO: 16:45 BST
Wembley Stadium, London
Live on ITV1 (United Kingdom) and TV3 (Republic of Ireland)

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant Referee 1; Romain Poite (France)
Assistant Referee 2; Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

Teams

IRELAND



15. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Jared Payne (Ulster)
12. Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
9. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)

1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
3. Nathan White (Connacht)
4. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
6. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) captain

Replacements;

16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
18. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
19. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster)
20. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
21. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
22. Paddy Jackson (Dungannon)
23. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)

ROMANIA



15. Catalin Fercu
14. Adrian Apostol
13. Paula Kinikinilau
12. Csaba Gal
11. Ionut Botezatu
10. Michael Wiringi
9. Valentin Calafeteanu

1. Andrei Ursache
2. Andrei Radoi
3. Paulica Ion
4. Valentin Poparlan
5. Ovidiu Tonita
6. Viorel Lucaci
7. Mihai Macovei (c)
8. Daniel Carpo

Replacements

16. Mihaita Lazar
17. Otar Turashvili
18. Alexandru Tarus
19. Johannes van Heerden
20.Stelian Burcea
21. Florin Surugiu
22. Florin Ionita
23. Florin Vlaicu

Head to Head

Played; 8
Ireland Won; 8
Romania Won; 0
Draws; 0

Last 5 Meetings

Ireland 43 - 12 Romania
26th November 2005
Lansdowne Road, Dublin

Ireland 45 - 17 Romania
11th October 2003
Rugby World Cup 2003, Pool A, Match 3
Central Coast Stadium, Gosford

Ireland 39 - 8 Romania
7th September 2002
Thomond Park, Limerick

Romania 3 - 37 Ireland
2nd June 2001
Bucharest

Ireland 44 - 14 Romania
15th October 1999
Rugby World Cup 1999, Pool E, Match 27
Lansdowne Road, Dublin

GunsGerms wrote:On the wing though. I like Earls too but I think Dave Kearney has been our top performing back. Earls is a try scoring machine so he will get game time.

When it comes to ruck resourcing, Kearney hasn't been that great. The Earl of Thomond is the king of the ruck resourcing (better than most backrowers in fact).

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:On the wing though. I like Earls too but I think Dave Kearney has been our top performing back. Earls is a try scoring machine so he will get game time.

When it comes to ruck resourcing, Kearney hasn't been that great. The Earl of Thomond is the king of the ruck resourcing (better than most backrowers in fact).

You are taking stats from one game Sin. Kearney has lead the stats in other ways in his last few games too. The Earl of Moyross will possibly start on the wing v Italy with Kearney on the other wing.

Player1 plays one game.  He's "nailed on" according to his fans.  
Player1 is rested and Player2 plays the next game.  He's "nailed on" according to his fans.  
Player2 is subbed during the next game because of a slight knock.  Player3 moves position to take over.  Player 3 becomes "nailed on" according to his fans.

Player1 resumes position when rested enough.  He's now back as first choice "nailed on".

These nails don't have much grip!  I suggest longer ones.

Agreed fans are fickle. Particulary with when it comes to Bowe lately. He will hit top form in this WC Im sure.

Bowe v Kearney.

Bowe is an excellent player but Kearney has certainly been in some form. Its hard for me this as on one hand I would like to give Kearney a start v Italy to keep his match fitness up but on the other hand I would like to start Bowe so that he can continue his improvement and match fitness.

I wonder if Schmidt will start with Bowe and give Kearney the second half (or vice versa).

Marshes? Is he from Ulster?

Why not start both Bowe and Kearney? Earls and Payne are both due a rest if we're aiming for our first choice players to start 3 games in the group each.

Against Italy Henshaw and Fitzgerald come in for Cave and Payne, Kearney comes in on the left wing for Earls. Then against France we go with the first choice back line from that point on; Earls, Henshaw, Payne, Kearney/Bowe, Kearney (hopefully he'll be fit).

Notch wrote:Why not start both Bowe and Kearney? Earls and Payne are both due a rest if we're aiming for our first choice players to start 3 games in the group each.

Against Italy Henshaw and Fitzgerald come in for Cave and Payne, Kearney comes in on the left wing for Earls. Then against France we go with the first choice back line from that point on; Earls, Henshaw, Payne, Kearney/Bowe, Kearney (hopefully he'll be fit).

It will probably be Bowe and Kearney actually you are right. Maybe Zebo at 15 again if Rob is injured.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:On the wing though. I like Earls too but I think Dave Kearney has been our top performing back. Earls is a try scoring machine so he will get game time.

When it comes to ruck resourcing, Kearney hasn't been that great. The Earl of Thomond is the king of the ruck resourcing (better than most backrowers in fact).

You are taking stats from one game Sin. Kearney has lead the stats in other ways in his last few games too. The Earl of Moyross will possibly start on the wing v Italy with Kearney on the other wing.

One game where everyone was raving about Kearney and saying that Fitz should start ahead of earls:

1st arrivals at ruck:

10 Keith Earls – 1 dominant, 7 effective, 2 guard
4 Dave Kearney – 3 effective, 1 ineffective
3 Luke Fitzgerald – 2 effective, 1 ineffective

2nd arrivals:
9 Luke Fitzgerald – 6 effective, 2 guard, 1 ineffective
4 Dave Kearney – 1 effective, 2 guard, 2 present
3 Keith Earls – 1 effective, 2 guard

3rd arrivals
2 Keith Earls – 1 effective, 1 guard
0 Dave Kearney
0 Luke Fitz

I am aware of the stats and have said Earls has been very good but like I said Kearney has also lead the stats in other areas.

One stat you have forgotten is that Earls is Ireland's joint top world cup try scorer of all time on 7 tries. BOD also has 7 but it took him three world cups to get there.

Earls and Bowe are IMO our biggest try scoring threats.

Why not Kearney and Bowe together? Well I would personally like to keep them both playing 14.

Cave and Henshaw the centres and Fitz on the left is the way I would go.

Which side presented Ireland with more genuine difficulties?

'Neither', some might say. Well yes, but which of them? I'd suggest Canada that came at us and tried to counter more effectively than Romania managed. Van der Merwe being a constant niggling threat.

So, as everyone keeps reminding each other, there isn't really one game that can ever be measured against another one on a genuine like-with-like basis.

I'd be like Billy, I'd probably give Bowe another run-out against Italy to let him try to build on renewed confidence. But the Romanian game didn't 'nail on' anyone in my eyes.

Just because the opposition isn't tough, you can compare player performance against similar opposition.

And for example, Cave & Earls v. Wales in first game would be similar opposition to Romania (Payne & Cave).

I don't think we've seen Ireland under any sort of pressure since the England game tbh. Italy vs Canada showed that if you let Canada have the ball to run at you they can be difficult but we just didn't let them into the game at all. Neither Canada or Romania have really been good enough to ask any serious questions of us.

Sin é wrote:

Blanko wrote:Poor Jared. You must have known this was coming Notch. Couple of warm ups and low class opposition and we are back to drop Jared and get in Earls or Fitz. Any reason will do - not a 13 , not an organizer, etc

If the France game wasn't so important I only wish JS would put Fitz or Earls in the centre instead of Payne. That would put an end to this talk.

I see exactly what Notch (and BOD) is saying. Payne stops all those breakthroughs and organizzes the defense that Earls or Fitz will never do. I guess people don't want to see it - at least that's what it looks like with the almost hostility towards payne on here.  

Earls and Fitz will do their usual as soon as we play someone good. Best would be to put the posts on the sidelines. That would help a bit.

No one gets attacked on here of late like Payne I wish I knew the reason

This is what Matt Williams had to say about Payne:

"He's making really poor decisions: he's kicking the ball all the time and he's kicking very badly," said Williams of Payne.

"He's not making breaks. He's running across field.

"So, you can tick just about every box for doing things wrong as an outside centre in attack.

"I certainly do not believe that for us to go deep in the tournament that's going to be good enough.

"We have to get some centres that are going to show the ability to go through teams."

Williams says the outside centre should be Darren Cave. ROG thinks it should be Luke Fitz. The one thing in common they all have is that they don't rate Payne as an outside centre.

Matt Williams

SecretFly wrote:

I'd be like Billy, I'd probably give Bowe another run-out against Italy to let him try to build on renewed confidence.  But the Romanian game didn't 'nail on' anyone in my eyes.

Don't be like me, you still have some credibility on this site...

Agree with me and Notch will have a meltdown and guns will call you a Munster fan

That would be a horrible thing to call him. I wouldnt do that.

I'm an equal-opportunities moaner, Billy.  The Provincial diehards all hate me

I've given out stink about Rob Kearney (he's back in my good books big time!) and I've directed a smattering of side-swipes at electric eel Fitz.  I've even had a swipe at Heaslip a few years ago when everything he seemed to do had a scowl attached to it.  
So that's my own side taken care of to an extent.  

Then obviously I've been hard on Bowe for quite some time now - long enough to be told by one Ulster man that I had hopped on a recent media-led bandwagon.  No, I think I made that bandwagon in me own shed.    I've never got on Payne's case though - yet.  

And at times in the not too distant past, I'd been niggling down Zebo's trail of course....

I think all in all we have a squad that can do well now.  All that matters now is concentration and proper gameplans.... oh and a bit more puff in the engines

In the US its called flip flopping Fly...its an admirable attempt but you still come back to the same old same old (as does Guns who at least is usually just being loyal to his old chums from his alma mater).

Anyhow Payne is likely to start and I dont see any major issue with him. He and Henshaw did a fine job during the 6ns.

ME-109 wrote:In the US its called flip flopping Fly...its an admirable attempt but you still come back to the same old same old (as does Guns who at least is usually just being loyal to his old chums from his alma mater).

Anyhow Payne is likely to start and I dont see any major issue with him. He and Henshaw did a fine job during the 6ns.

Crap, DOD. It's called growing up and not being a kid swapping Football stickers at the back of class Remember those days? Filling your scrapbook with your favourite team players. A bit like Kidney in his prime

SecretFly wrote:Marshes?  Is he from Ulster?

What are you referencing here fly? I'm a bit confused!

Marshes wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Marshes?  Is he from Ulster?

What are you referencing here fly? Bit confused!

I wasn't sure what your Provincial colours were. Still not. But I thought 'Ulster'?

Connacht Fly, with the national team as primary concern. Evidenced by my continuous posts that Carr, Adeolokun and O Halloran are the obvious back three for Ireland, but the established big three stranglehold refuse to acknowledge it

Yeah, what I'd give to have Bunny Carr in the squad.

But that's okay... sorry for that, Marshes, got that all wrong about where you came from.

I was going to make a point about a comment you made earlier concerning the Romanian match. But the point only had meaning if you were an Ulster man..... and you aren't...!

Thank God, I never made my point!

Blanko wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Williams says the outside centre should be Darren Cave. ROG thinks it should be Luke Fitz. The one thing in common they all have is that they don't rate Payne as an outside centre.

Matt Williams

https://twitter.com/StephenFerris6/status/648805281615495168

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/tommy-bowe-says-criticism-of-jared-payne-is-wide-of-mark-1.2370319

Maybe Willams is just being a strategic Aussie and trying to talk Payne off the Irish team sheet in an attempt to knock out a contender. He's got a horse in the race too.

I think all this Twitter guff gets too personal though. Why don't the people simply try telling him where he's wrong rather than just the 'muppet' stuff

Obviously Ireland are boring the pants off all the media hacks being too happy, efficient and so far having a good WC.

Someone start and Ireland v Italy thread...its midweek ffs.

I'm not condoning the way Ferris responds to that, just indicating that the balance of opinion amongst the coaches, former players and the squad indicates that Payne is highly respected by his peers.

ME-109 wrote:Someone start and Ireland v Italy thread...its midweek ffs.

What good would that do? We know all the nailed on guys are going to play in it. What's to discuss?

Which type of Pasta sauce is better...

Notch start a thread please. I want to tell DOD how much I hate that pale vomit stuff called Carbonara...

Notch wrote:I'm not condoning the way Ferris responds to that, just indicating that the balance of opinion amongst the coaches, former players and the squad indicates that Payne is highly respected by his peers.

I think Ferris is right. Williams deserved it. What's good for the goose... I mean if Williams has no problem putting the boot in to an Ireland player, one of his own apparently ("we"), during a world cup, then he should understand that some supporters will turn on him in response.

Stringer deserves a boot in the @rse as well.

Stringer got the boot in the arse. Thus why he's taking well timed cuts and thrusts now. Fair game as you say.

True, he did, but two wrongs don't make a right. If he thinks it's ok to to put the boot into an Irish player during the world cup, then it doesn't speak well of him.

Ok, so we are not allowed to highlight any mistakes that Payne has made and simply must say that he is the best player Ireland have, has bucket loads of composure, brilliant awareness, superb in attack, king in defence, excellent kicker and the best midfield defensive line caller Ireland have had.

Finally we have an even better option than BOD ever was at 13.

He's giving opinions.  

Yes, people get irate when they feel their players are being attacked.  But do we really want the sugary guff that's coming at us from across the water?  

Ireland has always had more bite in analysis terms, and to be honest, the TV3 coverage took a bit of time to find its feet in that regard.  They were too bland in the beginning.  But now Keith Wood and Williams and others are beginning to relax and actually say things that MIGHT get talked about the next day.

That's really what we all want - whether we like to admit it or not - someone stinging us or our views and us coming back the next day to put the boot in.  That's what sporting occasions are all about.

Meanwhile over on ITV, some plonker keeps throwing the same running-joke at Pienaar about Japan's win - even forgetting the fact that England have just mimicked the choke.

I know which I'd prefer to listen to.

eirebilly wrote:Ok, so we are not allowed to highlight any mistakes that Payne has made and simply must say that he is the best player Ireland have, has bucket loads of composure, brilliant awareness, superb in attack, king in defence, excellent kicker and the best midfield defensive line caller Ireland have had.

Finally we have an even better option than BOD ever was at 13.

We are. Nobody listens to us. Well, not me anyway. Voicing our opinions on a fans forum is very different to publicly hammering a player on a national broadcast.

P.s BOD couldn't kick for toffee either.

I simply do not see what Williams, Wood or Stringer said that was so wrong. They hardly hammered Payne, they simply voice their opinions as pundits.

I have done the same here and faced criticism from the likes of Notch that went below any mature means of communication. Fact is, some people have their favourites and take any comments against their favourite player way too personal.

SecretFly wrote:He's giving opinions.  

Yes, people get irate when they feel their players are being attacked.  But do we really want the sugary guff that's coming at us from across the water?  

Ireland has always had more bite in analysis terms, and to be honest, the TV3 coverage took a bit of time to find its feet in that regard.  They were too bland in the beginning.  But now Keith Wood and Williams and others are beginning to relax and actually say things that MIGHT get talked about the next day.

That's really what we all want - whether we like to admit it or not - someone stinging us or our views and us coming back the next day to put the boot in.  That's what sporting occasions are all about.

Meanwhile over on ITV, some plonker keeps throwing the same running-joke at Pienaar about Japan's win - even forgetting the fact that England have just mimicked the choke.

I know which I'd prefer to listen to.

Is he simply giving his opinion? Is he being completely honest? Or is he playing the bad guy in the hope of attracting more attention? Does Payne deserve that level of criticism? I don't believe so. I do believe a pundit is trying to cash in on negative publicity. It's the negative stuff that gets noticed, and it's the negative stuff that pays.

eirebilly wrote:I simply do not see what Williams, Wood or Stringer said that was so wrong. They hardly hammered Payne, they simply voice their opinions as pundits.

I have done the same here and faced criticism from the likes of Notch that went below any mature means of communication. Fact is, some people have their favourites and take any comments against their favourite player way too personal.

billy, you're the last person I would expect to disagree with Williams comments....

I actually don't fully agree with them. I don't see Cave as a 13 just yet, still see him more as a 12 with Henshaw 13 Munckin.

I just don't see why there is such an explosion over them. They are peoples opinions after all and neither of them 'hammered' Payne.

Just do not see the need in resorting to such levels of abuse for someone having a different opinion than what you have.

eirebilly wrote:I actually don't fully agree with them. I don't see Cave as a 13 just yet, still see him more as a 12 with Henshaw 13 Munckin.

I just don't see why there is such an explosion over them. They are peoples opinions after all and neither of them 'hammered' Payne.

Just do not see the need in resorting to such levels of abuse for someone having a different opinion than what you have.

You completely agree with his comments on Payne. Hardly surprising considering how critical you have been of Payne on these forums. You're completely entitled to those opinions, as we all are.

What abuse? Catch a grip man.

The reason people are responding like this is, the criticism seems way out of line with the reality of what the player actually offers. Like... he's being singled out. But he's currently one of the most important players in the team. It's absolutely incomprehensible at times. If that can be justified logically, then fair enough. But it isn't justified- statements have been made which are not reconcilable with the reality of whats happening on the pitch. People say he doesn't run lines like a centre or he isn't a defensive organiser. Thats what is so... weird.

It's just weird. When players deserve criticism, people won't react like, say, Ferris did on twitter there. When they don't  deserve it and they still get it its obviously very disappointing and thats where that reaction comes from.

I don't think Jared Payne will be happy with his kicking out of hand against Canada. I don't think it's unfair to point out that he executed those kicks poorly and made one mistake that lead to a try. But in terms of what he offers the team, even in the context of what he offered the team in that game alone, some of the things that have been said are bizarre in the distance between what's being stated and what the reality is.

I don't think Payne will get more than 30 caps. I think he is a bridge player inbetween an older generation of Irish centres moving on and a new generation coming in. He is a stopgap. But we have not one single player who can do the job he is doing. Having him is something to be grateful about, for all of us.

Peter Stringer's criticism of Payne wasn't over the top. He said his attack isn't good enough and he looks indecisive. He should not look indecisive against Romania! Shock journalism wouldn't be Stringer's bag for the record. And he says Payne is not good enough in attack. You need a player who can at least threaten a linebreak. Fitzgerald has that ability if you don't want to use Earls there.

Munchkin wrote:P.s BOD couldn't kick for toffee either.

No of course he couldnt.

eirebilly wrote:
I have done the same here and faced criticism from the likes of Notch that went below any mature means of communication.

What do you mean "the likes of Notch" - it was either him or it wasn't!

Munchkin wrote:

Is he simply giving his opinion? Is he being completely honest? Or is he playing the bad guy in the hope of attracting more attention? Does Payne deserve that level of criticism?  I don't believe so. I do believe a pundit is trying to cash in on negative publicity. It's the negative stuff that gets noticed, and it's the negative stuff that pays.

I think he has strong opinions and you can see when he's bristling to get them out.  I don't see it as stage managed.  I see him as being a direct speaker who felt a little constrained by the studio set-up at first but whined and interjected and finally came round to the idea that he wanted to speak his mind.  He did so too when talking about how long it has taken Ireland and Irish players to fully buy into the technical details of modern rugby.  He got frustrated and said 'we' have to admit these things to ourselves.  And he's right there.  We do have to admit we were off the pace and that the foreign coaches coming in have forced a more methodical planned approach to what happens on the field.

But that's not to say I agree with most of what he says or any of it.  I have my own opinions but I like others to have the courage to express their strong views too - even though I don't buy them for a second.  Chunky would be an example.  Let him have his opinions and then I'll hit back with mine.

It seems Williams has a major issue with mid-field and go-forward ball.  He thinks it's all too lateral.  Now such an opinion wasn't a lone opinion in the build up to the WC.  Many commentators shared the view.  So now he's airing it again because he says the first two opponents disguise the difficulty we'll have in sturdier games.  And who is to say that he's wrong yet?  It might turn out that he's wrong, but right now, based on our overall lack of cutting edge on display over two years, he might turn out to be right.

GunsGerms wrote:

Munchkin wrote:P.s BOD couldn't kick for toffee either.

No of course he couldnt.

He was actually rubbish when he was first capped (admitted it himself) but worked his socks off to improve that. Also his distribution and passing was poor initially...another area he became great at but in the beginning both areas were not particularly good.