Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
+19
hjumpshoe
Hammersmith harrier
Dolphin Ziggler
hazharrison
milkyboy
Soldier_Of_Fortune
RatBoy66
trottb
Mayweathers cellmate
TopHat24/7
3fingers
Steffan
Nico the gman
AdamT
Lance
kingraf
catchweight
wheelchair1991
TRUSSMAN66
23 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Boxing
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Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
First topic message reminder :
1986
------
Three champions............Tubbs, Thomas and Spinks.......
January - Remember like it was yesterday debating with guys in High about whether Tubbs speed and footwork would be enough to beat the defensively canny and bigger punching Witherspoon.......Picked Tubbs but it was a 50/50 spread and we all couldn't wait to see what happened... (Witherspoon close decision)
March - We all thought Pinky T was the next great heavy and the talk in high was whether he'd send another message post Weaver to Holmes/ Witherspoon and Spinks that he was the man by stopping the durable and charismatic Berbick........100/0 spread on this fight but it was a fight of interest.....(Berbick close decision)
April - The long awaited rematch between Holmes and Spinks........Would Larry jump on him this time ???.....Was Larry past it ???...What controversial crap would Larry harp on about in the run up ??..Eagerly anticipated rematch.........Probably 80/20 Holmes spread.....(Spinks robbery)......
2015
-----
Only Two champions........................ and by the way one of them apparently fought last night....
Heavyweight is crap.............Blame the actors and not the directors or the Producers.....
1986
------
Three champions............Tubbs, Thomas and Spinks.......
January - Remember like it was yesterday debating with guys in High about whether Tubbs speed and footwork would be enough to beat the defensively canny and bigger punching Witherspoon.......Picked Tubbs but it was a 50/50 spread and we all couldn't wait to see what happened... (Witherspoon close decision)
March - We all thought Pinky T was the next great heavy and the talk in high was whether he'd send another message post Weaver to Holmes/ Witherspoon and Spinks that he was the man by stopping the durable and charismatic Berbick........100/0 spread on this fight but it was a fight of interest.....(Berbick close decision)
April - The long awaited rematch between Holmes and Spinks........Would Larry jump on him this time ???.....Was Larry past it ???...What controversial crap would Larry harp on about in the run up ??..Eagerly anticipated rematch.........Probably 80/20 Holmes spread.....(Spinks robbery)......
2015
-----
Only Two champions........................ and by the way one of them apparently fought last night....
Heavyweight is crap.............Blame the actors and not the directors or the Producers.....
Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ..)
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Steffan wrote:I've had this chat with him but he won't give upAdamT wrote:Stop pretending to be american
He has nailed the ignorance and stupidity.
trottb- Posts : 1300
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Age : 40
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
This is what happens to unemployed people on a Monday morning. Take it easy on him
Lance- Posts : 1712
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Suppose you must think I have real issues Lance, arguing with myself?
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Not even you are safe from yourself/him in his/your mood this morning.
Lance- Posts : 1712
Join date : 2011-10-29
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Lance wrote:Not even you are safe from yourself/him in his/your mood this morning.
That is funny to be fair.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
Join date : 2014-03-27
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
It goes with all of the divisions, we need promoters that want the champions to fight each other and bring the undisputed champion to the fore. The blind ambition throughout the majority of the promoters is to have their fighter holding a belt and milking it, nothing particularly wrong with that but at some point they have to face their fellow champions and unify. They'll always get split again but as long as fighters/promoters unify then the more the interest in the sport will grow again.
Tyson was obviously a big favourite with casual fans, but he also brought unification fights which brought even more interest. Unify titles and people will watch even more so.
As I've mentioned they will be split and divided up again, but if every 2 to 3 years we have a unification, at all weights, it would help build interest in the sport again.
It's the only way I can see the alphabelts continuing. Boxing is struggling and the only way forward is to bring the individual champions to the table. WBO v IBF, WBA v WBA (or whatever order) winner of each fights each other. The super six didn't really work for me, people pulling out and getting replaced etc. This format is far more interesting and doesn't take quite as long.
Tyson was obviously a big favourite with casual fans, but he also brought unification fights which brought even more interest. Unify titles and people will watch even more so.
As I've mentioned they will be split and divided up again, but if every 2 to 3 years we have a unification, at all weights, it would help build interest in the sport again.
It's the only way I can see the alphabelts continuing. Boxing is struggling and the only way forward is to bring the individual champions to the table. WBO v IBF, WBA v WBA (or whatever order) winner of each fights each other. The super six didn't really work for me, people pulling out and getting replaced etc. This format is far more interesting and doesn't take quite as long.
RatBoy66- Posts : 125
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Age : 58
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Nico the gman wrote:The World Heavyweight title was once the crown jewel of boxing, now its just an embarrassment of a division littered with garbage, what a state its in.
Probably the best post on here..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
So a novice Vitali giving Lewis the toughest fight of his life is cast iron evidence for him getting beaten by some 80's bum who's never beaten anyone.
Herbie Hide gave an undefeated Bowe hell for 5 rounds.
Herbie Hide gave an undefeated Bowe hell for 5 rounds.
Mayweathers cellmate- Posts : 685
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Vitali is useless mate. He has no iron jaw or will.
He isn't that tall or hit that hard. Easy work for the schooled heavies.
He isn't that tall or hit that hard. Easy work for the schooled heavies.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
Join date : 2014-03-27
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
What a wally...
You mention Vital was a novice and yet mention nothing about Lewis age and condition and the fact VitalI was a last minute sub...
Don't waste my time...
Witherspoon v Holmes...
You mention Vital was a novice and yet mention nothing about Lewis age and condition and the fact VitalI was a last minute sub...
Don't waste my time...
Witherspoon v Holmes...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Lance wrote:Not even you are safe from yourself/him in his/your mood this morning.
kingraf- raf
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Truss is Mike Tyson the greatest ever?
He made the Gods of the 80's look sh1t
He made the Gods of the 80's look sh1t
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
This thread is making me laugh
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Singing hey diddle diddle with a kitty in the middle, I was swingin like I didn't care
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Do you not just mean one halfwit??
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
kingraf wrote:Lance wrote:Not even you are safe from yourself/him in his/your mood this morning.
So I took a big chance at the high school dance, with a miss who was ready to play
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
I blame the fat f**ker Tony Tucker in the first place.
Thinking he can be fat and win a heavyweight title. He set the precident.
Thinking he can be fat and win a heavyweight title. He set the precident.
Soldier_Of_Fortune- Posts : 4420
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Tucker wasn't fat....
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
James Toney would of done well in the 80's Heavyweight scene.
He is also a well schooled fat f...ker.
He is also a well schooled fat f...ker.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
AdamT wrote:Vitali is useless mate. He has no iron jaw or will.
He isn't that tall or hit that hard. Easy work for the schooled heavies.
I reckon if Vitali was big and had a chin and some power he could've handled that Tubby Page guy from the 80's.
Mayweathers cellmate- Posts : 685
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There are plenty of halfwits on it
Even the halfwits were better in the 80's.
Mayweathers cellmate- Posts : 685
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Wasn't me she was foolin cause she knew what she was doin, when she told me how to walk this way
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Tyson showed what Tubbs was made of.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
In all seriousness...I think TNT would out point Vitali to a UD. Wlad...am not so sure.
Soldier_Of_Fortune- Posts : 4420
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Well done soldier boy
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Anybody other than Truss, were the 80's heavyweights really that great?
F..k I always see historians putting Tyson down saying, he lost to very good fighter he faced other than the old Holmes, or light Heavy Spinks.
F..k I always see historians putting Tyson down saying, he lost to very good fighter he faced other than the old Holmes, or light Heavy Spinks.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Never said the 80s were great...
But heavyweights like Dokes, Tate, Biggs, Tubbs, Page, Witherspoon etc were well schooled and all had long succesful amateur careers before turning pro..
But heavyweights like Dokes, Tate, Biggs, Tubbs, Page, Witherspoon etc were well schooled and all had long succesful amateur careers before turning pro..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
I'm a quarterwit. Can I join in, or will the weight of the intellectual debate emotionally crush me?
The 80's heavies had talent but were porky coke sniffers, and most of them, tucker aside, weren't very big. It's hard to say whether tubbs beats vitali... an in-shape tubbs was possibly capable of it... but we never saw an in-shape tubbs so it's guesswork. Vitali was fit, big strong and tough with a great chin. I don't imagine he's an easy fight for anyone.
tokyo buster beats him, early witherspoon could, tubbs potentially could nick a decision
The 80's heavies had talent but were porky coke sniffers, and most of them, tucker aside, weren't very big. It's hard to say whether tubbs beats vitali... an in-shape tubbs was possibly capable of it... but we never saw an in-shape tubbs so it's guesswork. Vitali was fit, big strong and tough with a great chin. I don't imagine he's an easy fight for anyone.
tokyo buster beats him, early witherspoon could, tubbs potentially could nick a decision
milkyboy- Posts : 7762
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
He was in shape against Smith, Bowe and Page....
Quarter wit is about right.
Quarter wit is about right.
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Both brothers are sh1t then.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He was in shape against Smith, Bowe and Page....
Quarter wit is about right.
my quarter beats your fc uk
milkyboy- Posts : 7762
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Th 80's was an awful HW era, that's why the short school kid managed to clean up so easily.
Mayweathers cellmate- Posts : 685
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Thanks for your opinion....
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Th 80's was an awful HW era, that's why the short school kid managed to clean up so easily.
My uncle is a massive Mike Tyson fan i might say that to him just to see the anger in his eyes
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
If the short school kid was around in this era he would retire at 22, would have wiped the division out by then, only so many puddings you can knock out in a bum division.Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Th 80's was an awful HW era, that's why the short school kid managed to clean up so easily.
Nico the gman- Posts : 1753
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Spot on Nico.....
Bruno would clean up...
Bruno would clean up...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Rewatched the Vitali Lewis fight yesterday. Had forgotten just how abysmal Vitali looked once Lewis went on the front foot. It wasn't just the cut. Vitali timing was awful once Lewis got out of first gear. A fitter Lewis knocks him out easily
Lance- Posts : 1712
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
The 80s was never considered a great heavyweight era. Not sure where this is coming from. It had talent though, even if a lot of it went unrealised or was wasted. Back then there were a lot of talented heavyweights who struggled to stay dedictated, motivated and in shape. Now there are just generally untalented heavyweight who struggle to stay dedicated, motivated and in shape. The talent is gone.
With regards Vitali v Lewis. Is there a more damning indictment of Vitalis touted greatness as a heavyweigh that he couldnt get the job done against a fat, old and unmotivated Lewis? Lewis showed up in about the poorest condition he had ever been in. He was expecting a cakewalk. His motivation was all but gone. For the first three rounds of the fight he was asleep. Heeventually woke up and even in his poor condition he started taking control of the fight. If Vitali was a great heavyweight boxer he would have made short work of that Lewis who showed up. A Tyson, Foreman, Frazier etc would have knocked that version of Lewis out in 3 rounds.
With regards Vitali v Lewis. Is there a more damning indictment of Vitalis touted greatness as a heavyweigh that he couldnt get the job done against a fat, old and unmotivated Lewis? Lewis showed up in about the poorest condition he had ever been in. He was expecting a cakewalk. His motivation was all but gone. For the first three rounds of the fight he was asleep. Heeventually woke up and even in his poor condition he started taking control of the fight. If Vitali was a great heavyweight boxer he would have made short work of that Lewis who showed up. A Tyson, Foreman, Frazier etc would have knocked that version of Lewis out in 3 rounds.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
No one suggested the 80's was a great era for Heavies...
More schooled than the heavies around now though.
More schooled than the heavies around now though.
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No one suggested the 80's was a great era for Heavies...
More schooled than the heavies around now though.
I think i could beat some of the dross today did anyone se Chisora the other night utter shambles looked like he had trained for 8 in KFC and fought like it too
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
It's a crying shame wheels...How pitiful heavy is..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Chisora weighed 260lbs it made James Toney look slim
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
He has me by 25 pounds. I need to diet.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Watched Tubbs again Truss. He was well schooled.
He can box better than the brothers, but their size and power would cause him problems.
I knew he was fast, but didn't realise how fast he was. In his early career he can box for sure.
I hold my hands up, I was wrong.
He can box better than the brothers, but their size and power would cause him problems.
I knew he was fast, but didn't realise how fast he was. In his early career he can box for sure.
I hold my hands up, I was wrong.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Takes a good man to be wrong and admit it..
Me....It's good to be Bad !!!...
Me....It's good to be Bad !!!...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
catchweight wrote:The 80s was never considered a great heavyweight era. Not sure where this is coming from. It had talent though, even if a lot of it went unrealised or was wasted. Back then there were a lot of talented heavyweights who struggled to stay dedictated, motivated and in shape. Now there are just generally untalented heavyweight who struggle to stay dedicated, motivated and in shape. The talent is gone.
With regards Vitali v Lewis. Is there a more damning indictment of Vitalis touted greatness as a heavyweigh that he couldnt get the job done against a fat, old and unmotivated Lewis? Lewis showed up in about the poorest condition he had ever been in. He was expecting a cakewalk. His motivation was all but gone. For the first three rounds of the fight he was asleep. Heeventually woke up and even in his poor condition he started taking control of the fight. If Vitali was a great heavyweight boxer he would have made short work of that Lewis who showed up. A Tyson, Foreman, Frazier etc would have knocked that version of Lewis out in 3 rounds.
Having watched Lewis from the get-go, I believe he was shot against Vitali. He lacked his usual snap, timing and rhythm.
He was training for Kirk Johnson (you can't blame a man for skipping a few runs when that's all you're up against).
hazharrison- Posts : 7540
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
For those in here actually debating, I say thank you
Dolphin Ziggler- Dolphin
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
hazharrison wrote:catchweight wrote:The 80s was never considered a great heavyweight era. Not sure where this is coming from. It had talent though, even if a lot of it went unrealised or was wasted. Back then there were a lot of talented heavyweights who struggled to stay dedictated, motivated and in shape. Now there are just generally untalented heavyweight who struggle to stay dedicated, motivated and in shape. The talent is gone.
With regards Vitali v Lewis. Is there a more damning indictment of Vitalis touted greatness as a heavyweigh that he couldnt get the job done against a fat, old and unmotivated Lewis? Lewis showed up in about the poorest condition he had ever been in. He was expecting a cakewalk. His motivation was all but gone. For the first three rounds of the fight he was asleep. Heeventually woke up and even in his poor condition he started taking control of the fight. If Vitali was a great heavyweight boxer he would have made short work of that Lewis who showed up. A Tyson, Foreman, Frazier etc would have knocked that version of Lewis out in 3 rounds.
Having watched Lewis from the get-go, I believe he was shot against Vitali. He lacked his usual snap, timing and rhythm.
He was training for Kirk Johnson (you can't blame a man for skipping a few runs when that's all you're up against).
I don't think he was shot he just lacked motivation and did not train for the reasons you have stated
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
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