Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......

First topic message reminder :

1986
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Three champions............Tubbs, Thomas and Spinks.......

January - Remember like it was yesterday debating with guys in High about whether Tubbs speed and footwork would be enough to beat the defensively canny and bigger punching Witherspoon.......Picked Tubbs but it was a 50/50 spread and we all couldn't wait to see what happened... (Witherspoon close decision)

March - We all thought Pinky T was the next great heavy and the talk in high was whether he'd send another message post Weaver to Holmes/ Witherspoon and Spinks that he was the man by stopping the durable and charismatic Berbick........100/0 spread on this fight but it was a fight of interest.....(Berbick close decision)

April - The long awaited rematch between Holmes and Spinks........Would Larry jump on him this time ???.....Was Larry past it ???...What controversial crap would Larry harp on about in the run up ??..Eagerly anticipated rematch.........Probably 80/20 Holmes spread.....(Spinks robbery)......

2015
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Only Two champions........................ and by the way one of them apparently fought last night....

Heavyweight is crap.............Blame the actors and not the directors or the Producers.....

Lewis was shot against VitalI and unmotivated...

Lewis was a different animal when he had a challenge..

wheelchair1991 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No one suggested the 80's was a great era for Heavies...

More schooled than the heavies around now though.

I think i could beat some of the dross today did anyone se Chisora the other night utter shambles looked like he had trained for 8 in KFC and fought like it too

He's only 6ft as well

hazharrison wrote:

catchweight wrote:The 80s was never considered a great heavyweight era. Not sure where this is coming from. It had talent though, even if a lot of it went unrealised or was wasted. Back then there were a lot of talented heavyweights who struggled to stay dedictated, motivated and in shape. Now there are just generally untalented heavyweight who struggle to stay dedicated, motivated and in shape. The talent is gone.

With regards Vitali v Lewis. Is there a more damning indictment of Vitalis touted greatness as a heavyweigh that he couldnt get the job done against a fat, old and unmotivated Lewis? Lewis showed up in about the poorest condition he had ever been in. He was expecting a cakewalk. His motivation was all but gone. For the first three rounds of the fight he was asleep. Heeventually woke up and even in his poor condition he started taking control of the fight. If Vitali was a great heavyweight boxer he would have made short work of that Lewis who showed up. A Tyson, Foreman, Frazier etc would have knocked that version of Lewis out in 3 rounds.

Having watched Lewis from the get-go, I believe he was shot against Vitali. He lacked his usual snap, timing and rhythm.

He was training for Kirk Johnson (you can't blame a man for skipping a few runs when that's all you're up against).

The irony is most Klitschko supporters use the fight validate his credentials as a great heavyweight with a hard luck story. Lewis was majorly undercooked and there for the taking. A great heavyweight should been taking him out in that form. Id fancy a few not so great heavyweights to have taken him out in that sloppy condition a la Rahman.

I don't see how they can use the fight to boost Vitali's standing to be honest

The 5th and 6th rounds of that fight were one way traffic, it was becoming quite one sided with Lewis' right hand now performing like a homing missile on Vitali's face, he had a massive advantage on the inside too and he was crap there.

A novice Klitschko still gave Lewis the toughest fight of his career. The same Lewis who wiped out HW boxing in America. HW boxing went global in the 90's, Americans just can't bring themselves to accept it.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:A novice Klitschko still gave Lewis the toughest fight of his career. The same Lewis who wiped out HW boxing in America. HW boxing went global in the 90's, Americans just can't bring themselves to accept it.

Lewis had not trained, unmotivated and was overweight, if Vitali could not beat him i'm afraid he never would have

Lewis didn't train?

He might not have killed himself and looked a little fleshly. However I doubt a man that has previosuly been flattened twice, didn't train.

Vitali is a good fighter. You guys are absolutely mental.

Yes Lewis WAS better. Lewis is one of the greatest heavies ever.

1. Lewis beat VitalI.
2. He was very heavy.
3. He was old.
4. He was facing a last minute sub...
5. He was a different fighter when motivated..

No one has said VitalI isn't decent..

Vitali is more than decent Truss.

I gave your guy Tubbs credit. More schooled than Vitali and fast as hell. Still not sure he would beat Vitali.

Vitali is Good at what he does. He is awkward with good relfexes. He is as tough as old boots and strong as hell.

He obviously isn't in the class of an Ali or Holmes etc, he is a very good heavyweight.

Reading u lot bicker and banter on ere reminds me so much of the classic barbershop scene from Eddie murphy's coming to America! Keep it up guys, highly amusing stuff! For what it's worth I've watched top level boxing since the early 80's so grew up watching Holmes then Tyson and those guys were awesome! The rest, while generally better than today's bunch, weren't all that! The 90's and early 00's were fun with some good rivalries going on but since then it's been a bore fest!I reckon the K Bros would fall into the also ran category in both these era's, they'd be a handful for anyone, particularly Vitali, but they wouldn't in any way dominate as they have!

https://youtu.be/5EiSaWAIMek Classic

I can't see Fury surviving.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:So a novice Vitali giving Lewis the toughest fight of his life is cast iron evidence for him getting beaten by some 80's bum who's never beaten anyone.

Herbie Hide gave an undefeated Bowe hell for 5 rounds.

How many fights do you have before you lose your novice tag, Vitali was 32-1 when he fought Lewis, hardly novice status.

Nico the gman wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:So a novice Vitali giving Lewis the toughest fight of his life is cast iron evidence for him getting beaten by some 80's bum who's never beaten anyone.

Herbie Hide gave an undefeated Bowe hell for 5 rounds.

How many fights do you have before you lose your novice tag, Vitali was 32-1 when he fought Lewis, hardly novice status.

Calling Klitschko a novice at that stage is as valid as saying Lewis was finished/wasn't even trying. It's no coincidence Lewis' best opponent gave him his toughest fight.

Vitali wasn't a novice and Lewis was unmotivated and well past his best, he woke up and couldn't miss with the right hand.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Vitali wasn't a novice and Lewis was unmotivated and well past his best, he woke up and couldn't miss with the right hand.

100% spot on.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Vitali wasn't a novice and Lewis was unmotivated and well past his best, he woke up and couldn't miss with the right hand.

Woke up from what? being way past his best, overweight and having not trained. Must take some snapping out of.

Lewis probably was a bit past his best, just like Klitschko was a bit before his best.

AdamT wrote:Vitali is a good fighter. You guys are absolutely mental.

Yes Lewis WAS better. Lewis is one of the greatest heavies ever.

Exactly right. Just because Vitali may not have been quite as good as Lewis doesn't mean he gets dominated by guys who weren't fit to lace Lewis, or Vitali's, boots.

He woke up from his slumber, he was there forvthe taking and Vitali wasn't good enough to make it count, that bloody mess of a face was no accident.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Vitali wasn't a novice and Lewis was unmotivated and well past his best, he woke up and couldn't miss with the right hand.

Woke up from what? being way past his best, overweight and having not trained. Must take some snapping out of.

Lewis probably was a bit past his best, just like Klitschko was a bit before his best.

So your admitting Lewis was past his best then.

So Vitali was at his best after he fought Lewis, give over, he only had 14 fights in 9 years after fighting Lewis, and against who? The best fighter and biggest name he ever fought a past it Lewis beat him.

A great heavyweight would have put that Lewis away. A lot of average heavyweights would have had a shot at it too. Pointless to pretend Lewis was anywhere near his best that fight and pointless to pretend Vitali Klitschko was a novice. He couldnt beat a old, unmotivated, sloppy version of Lewis in a fight that is considered to be Klitschkos defining fight.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

AdamT wrote:Vitali is a good fighter. You guys are absolutely mental.

Yes Lewis WAS better. Lewis is one of the greatest heavies ever.

Exactly right. Just because Vitali may not have been quite as good as Lewis doesn't mean he gets dominated by guys who weren't fit to lace Lewis, or Vitali's, boots.

Tubbs, Tucker and Witherspoon would all give Vitali a good fight. Tubbs has to turn up in shape to have a chance of nicking it on the cards but it's not a cert for Vitali. He just hasn't had the opposition to gauge how gauge how he would fair against reasonable quality operators.

The 80's lot fought each other so they're easier to measure. I do rate Vitali, by the way, but I rate the 80's guys too. Vitali could annihilate them or they could beat him on points. No one knows.

Vitali did lose to an old and past it Lewis though. That much is fact.

Does anybody else think a young Mike beats Lewis.

I switched to the Lewis camp for a while,but I am back to thinking Tyson could knock him out.

It is a tough one.

AdamT wrote:Does anybody else think a young Mike beats Lewis.

I switched to the Lewis camp for a while,but I am back to thinking Tyson could knock him out.

It is a tough one.

Well apparently a way past his best Lewis gave a way past his best Tyson an absolute pasting. So you'd have to say a prime Lewis gives a prime Tyson a hammering.

Yeah Lewis was well past it mate. He was basically a fat coffin dodger byt the time he fought Vitali.

Young Mike beats young Lewis, but the Lewis that Stewart trained beats post Douglas Tyson 8 times out if ten.
Anyway having read through 4 pages of this, I'm going to come to Truss's defense hear; Wlad has not beaten anyone of the quality of Tubbs, Witherspoon or Thomas, and neither did Vitali, and unless certain posters are just trying to wind him up, I'm questioning why they won't answer the question posed by Truss- who has either brother beaten that is in the their league? Now don't get me wrong I think the brothers hold their own, but lets not pretend that their skillsets are as good- it's their size and athleticism that keeps that at the races here.
Secondly whilst there have been a few mentions that people saw Tubbs and Thomas against Tyson, it's worth recalling the Tubbs was probably the only man ever to win the opening round against Tyson, and that Thomas is acknowledged as giving a peak Tyson his toughest ever fight.
Thirdly, Whilst the Brothers are truly superheavyweights, noe of the aforementioned were exactly small, so size probably isn't going to be the dominant factor in any potential match up.

hjumpshoe wrote:Reading u lot bicker and banter on ere reminds me so much of the classic barbershop scene from Eddie murphy's coming to America! Keep it up guys, highly amusing stuff! For what it's worth I've watched top level boxing since the early 80's so grew up watching Holmes then Tyson and those guys were awesome! The rest, while generally better than today's bunch, weren't all that! The 90's and early 00's were fun with some good rivalries going on but since then it's been a bore fest!I reckon the K Bros would fall into the also ran category in both these era's, they'd be a handful for anyone, particularly Vitali, but they wouldn't in any way dominate as they have!

Some of the joe Louis and Marciano threads we've had are a like a never ending pastiche of Eddie and arsenio

milkyboy wrote:

hjumpshoe wrote:Reading u lot bicker and banter on ere reminds me so much of the classic barbershop scene from Eddie murphy's coming to America! Keep it up guys, highly amusing stuff! For what it's worth I've watched top level boxing since the early 80's so grew up watching Holmes then Tyson and those guys were awesome! The rest, while generally better than today's bunch, weren't all that! The 90's and early 00's were fun with some good rivalries going on but since then it's been a bore fest!I reckon the K Bros would fall into the also ran category in both these era's, they'd be a handful for anyone, particularly Vitali, but they wouldn't in any way dominate as they have!

Some of the joe Louis and Marciano threads we've had are a like a never ending pastiche of Eddie and arsenio

Obviously without any of the humour or insight.

Have you read Dettloff's Ezzard Charles book yet Rowley?

yes, lest there's any doubt... I wouldn't recommend anyone seeking them out in expectation of light entertainment.

Yes I have haz, it is well worth getting hold of. Reminder of how ridiculously good he was at light heavyweight

Rowley wrote:Yes I have haz, it is well worth getting hold of. Reminder of how ridiculously good he was at light heavyweight

Half-way with it. They don't make them like that anymore!

must download this onto the kindle.