"England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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"England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
First topic message reminder :
Bob Dwyer has today gone to the media, furious at England's cheating at scrum time.
He has been backed by Jonathan "ask the ref" Kaplan, who tweeted furiously throughout the England v Wales showdown at Marler's illegal and obvious boring in; even going so far as to post numerous camera angles of the clear cheating. "I'd like to see England pack straight...just once" twittered the vehement Kaplan.
Will notorious scrum pedant Poite take note? Or is this just smoke and mirrors by a desperate Australian patriot and a Saffer ex-ref with an axe to grind?
Elsewhere in the news, a kiwi national paper has run the controversial headline "England already out of World Cup" over an article in which they liken Captain Robshaw and coach Lancaster to "dumb and dumber" stopping off to lambast Sir Clive Woodward as "the instigator of England's constrained, boring and overly-analytical approach".
Further putting the boot in, Irish great Gordon D'Arcy has slammed Sam Burgess as "embarrassingly naive" and mocked his selection. "Stuart Lancaster picked a league convert who doesn't know how to play" he is quoted as saying in the Irish Times.
OUCH! The rugby world cup is hotting up it seems! The media have been so quiet until now.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/72585035/rugby-world-cupwinning-coach-bob-dwyer-claims-england-are-scrum-cheats
https://twitter.com/TheVietGwent/status/648087535336443904/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11521784
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/england-rugby-team/news/article.cfm?c_id=500823&objectid=11521321
Bob Dwyer has today gone to the media, furious at England's cheating at scrum time.
He has been backed by Jonathan "ask the ref" Kaplan, who tweeted furiously throughout the England v Wales showdown at Marler's illegal and obvious boring in; even going so far as to post numerous camera angles of the clear cheating. "I'd like to see England pack straight...just once" twittered the vehement Kaplan.
Will notorious scrum pedant Poite take note? Or is this just smoke and mirrors by a desperate Australian patriot and a Saffer ex-ref with an axe to grind?
Elsewhere in the news, a kiwi national paper has run the controversial headline "England already out of World Cup" over an article in which they liken Captain Robshaw and coach Lancaster to "dumb and dumber" stopping off to lambast Sir Clive Woodward as "the instigator of England's constrained, boring and overly-analytical approach".
Further putting the boot in, Irish great Gordon D'Arcy has slammed Sam Burgess as "embarrassingly naive" and mocked his selection. "Stuart Lancaster picked a league convert who doesn't know how to play" he is quoted as saying in the Irish Times.
OUCH! The rugby world cup is hotting up it seems! The media have been so quiet until now.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/72585035/rugby-world-cupwinning-coach-bob-dwyer-claims-england-are-scrum-cheats
https://twitter.com/TheVietGwent/status/648087535336443904/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11521784
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/england-rugby-team/news/article.cfm?c_id=500823&objectid=11521321
Last edited by donglewood on Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:21 pm; edited 7 times in total
donglewood- Posts : 158
Join date : 2015-09-01
Location : London
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
I just look at the OP and think - who hasn't? Who hasn't used blockers (sorry 'dummy runners') Who hasn't used every trick under the sun including getting rule changes cos they can't scrum for toffee.
Its a team's responsibility to, lets say, 'adjust to the referee's interpretation'. If the referee, with the help of touch judges and the TMO, don't feel there is anything wrong then officially there isn't. If there is a problem with 'cheating', then, as long as people are not getting hurt it's a problem with the referee not the team playing.
Its a team's responsibility to, lets say, 'adjust to the referee's interpretation'. If the referee, with the help of touch judges and the TMO, don't feel there is anything wrong then officially there isn't. If there is a problem with 'cheating', then, as long as people are not getting hurt it's a problem with the referee not the team playing.
lostinwales- lostinwales
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Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
I would love to see all this England hype that has been in the press.
I have missed it.
sure the English papers talk about the england team a lot - logical surely. But I have not seen a single article indicating England are serious contenders to win the tournament.
I sometimes think people go out of their way to find offence or justify prejudice.
I have missed it.
sure the English papers talk about the england team a lot - logical surely. But I have not seen a single article indicating England are serious contenders to win the tournament.
I sometimes think people go out of their way to find offence or justify prejudice.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Sorry I thought most teams "cheat"
Flankers break the laws, props the break the laws...its down to the ref controlling it.
But because its England....we're the pantomime villain...
I love it!!
Flankers break the laws, props the break the laws...its down to the ref controlling it.
But because its England....we're the pantomime villain...
I love it!!
Geordie- Posts : 28896
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
"I would love to see all this England hype that has been in the press.
I have missed it."
http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/rugby-stuart-lancaster/index.html
Very smug picture to be honest!
I have missed it."
http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/rugby-stuart-lancaster/index.html
Very smug picture to be honest!
TightHEAD- Posts : 6192
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Tighthead, this epitomises it for me....and sums up his England team at the moment.
Respect. Manners. Humility. Doing right by people. Grafting. These are all principles he learned at the parental knee at Lime Tree Farm, in Culgaith, one of the high points of the Pennines
Geordie- Posts : 28896
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
GeordieFalcon wrote:Tighthead, this epitomises it for me....and sums up his England team at the moment.Respect. Manners. Humility. Doing right by people. Grafting. These are all principles he learned at the parental knee at Lime Tree Farm, in Culgaith, one of the high points of the Pennines
Aye.
Really the team could do with showing some of the Aussie or Saffer arrogance. they are just too nice and need a bit more devil in them.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
'Barb' and Kraplan
Cyril- Posts : 7162
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
LondonTiger wrote:I would love to see all this England hype that has been in the press.
I have missed it.
sure the English papers talk about the england team a lot - logical surely. But I have not seen a single article indicating England are serious contenders to win the tournament.
I sometimes think people go out of their way to find offence or justify prejudice.
Unfortunately some people see what they want to see and have ingrained preconceived ideas that they actively look to find evidence to support - even if it's not truly there. Normally I just accept that as an unfortunate fact of life but this morning it seems more irritating than usual!!
The tension must be getting to me!!
Saturday will be an immensely tight match I feel and one I hope that England can edge. I take some comfort from the Australian display against Fiji but am under no illusions that Saturday is likely to be a whole new level of intensity. My (half Welsh) son is going to Cardiff today to watch the Fiji match and has disappeared off with a Welsh flag etc supplied by his mam. I must admit to being very conflicted as I still normally like to see NH and particularly home nations teams do well but there is a part of me that is hoping that Fiji help England out this afternoon!!
stub- Posts : 2226
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
GeordieFalcon wrote:Tighthead, this epitomises it for me....and sums up his England team at the moment.Respect. Manners. Humility. Doing right by people. Grafting. These are all principles he learned at the parental knee at Lime Tree Farm, in Culgaith, one of the high points of the Pennines
What an arrogant toffee nosed so and so!!
stub- Posts : 2226
Join date : 2013-01-31
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
On A side note though, I do think England cheat at the scrums, and on Saturday they were doing it at every scrum....
But like I said, New Zealand do not have to worry about that as they are not playing them, it is Australia's problem now.
But like I said, New Zealand do not have to worry about that as they are not playing them, it is Australia's problem now.
LordDowlais- Posts : 15419
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Props cheating at a scrum
Who'da thunk it
Who'da thunk it
BamBam- Posts : 17226
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
I doubt there has been a scrum in the tournament so far when some form of 'cheating' hasn't taken place.
Cyril- Posts : 7162
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
BamBam wrote:Props cheating at a scrum
Who'da thunk it
You can't cheat if you don't know the rules!
TightHEAD- Posts : 6192
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Think saying the 2015 tournament is already more successful than its predecessor is a bit harsh not to mention a lot premature. Seems like all of them are great craic and don't need to be ranked. Though I'm sure our teams' results have a hand in it.
Media try to highlight perceived illegalities by teams seen as threats. Australia highlighting Marler is no different to England calling McCaw a cheat. Since the game's laws are so open to interpretation you're always going to get controversy.
The All Blacks have such a simple pool because they were the top ranking team when the draw was announced. Therefore they get the easiest pool. Having said that they don't lose pool games so it's kind of irrelevant in a way and they get a pig of a quarterfinal which they could have been undercooked for. Remember the aim of rewarding the top seeded teams is giving them the easier paths out of the pool. Nothing more than that-once they're in the knockout stages they're on their own. And due to a couple of upsets their first knockout opponent can turn decidedly tricky.
Media try to highlight perceived illegalities by teams seen as threats. Australia highlighting Marler is no different to England calling McCaw a cheat. Since the game's laws are so open to interpretation you're always going to get controversy.
The All Blacks have such a simple pool because they were the top ranking team when the draw was announced. Therefore they get the easiest pool. Having said that they don't lose pool games so it's kind of irrelevant in a way and they get a pig of a quarterfinal which they could have been undercooked for. Remember the aim of rewarding the top seeded teams is giving them the easier paths out of the pool. Nothing more than that-once they're in the knockout stages they're on their own. And due to a couple of upsets their first knockout opponent can turn decidedly tricky.
disneychilly- Posts : 2156
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
disneychilly wrote:The All Blacks have such a simple pool because they were the top ranking team when the draw was announced
Can we do the 2019 WC draw now ?
LordDowlais- Posts : 15419
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Nonsense.Bob Dwyer and Kaplan wrote:England have been cheating for years
doctor_grey- Posts : 12354
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
"TOmorrow or next week I might support another team."
I guess that's any other team playing England.
SL and the England camp have done everything possible to stay out of the media for the wrong reasons. But still they publish inane articles where the headline confirms that it is a waste of time reading further. Every article carries the obligatory picture of Sam Burgess in training kit. It is extremely boring stuff. But when it gets accompanied by inadequate Irish centres and has been long ago and now forgotten Australian old fogies having unnecessary pops at the team then it goes beyond friendly rivalry and steps over in to nasty bile filled jealous hatred.
I guess that's any other team playing England.
SL and the England camp have done everything possible to stay out of the media for the wrong reasons. But still they publish inane articles where the headline confirms that it is a waste of time reading further. Every article carries the obligatory picture of Sam Burgess in training kit. It is extremely boring stuff. But when it gets accompanied by inadequate Irish centres and has been long ago and now forgotten Australian old fogies having unnecessary pops at the team then it goes beyond friendly rivalry and steps over in to nasty bile filled jealous hatred.
englandglory4ever- Posts : 1635
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Dwyer and others have succeeded in at least drawing attention to the scrums which remain a farce and a 50/50 lottery. That's ultimately what this was about. Beyond that it has no meaning.
RubyGuby- Posts : 7404
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Bob Dwyer always comes up with something to stir the pot before a game with England.
Farr-Jones will probably have a comment or two in the next 24 hours too.
Farr-Jones will probably have a comment or two in the next 24 hours too.
Bathman_in_London- Posts : 2266
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
doctor_grey wrote:Nonsense.Bob Dwyer and Kaplan wrote:England have been cheating for years
Depends. Either everyone cheats or noone does. Taking a cynical view you take what you can get away with. Teams can cheat in different areas to each other as well so tend to highlight those where other teams break the laws.
disneychilly- Posts : 2156
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Dwyer probably is jaded because he couldn't score a date whilst working in Leicester. And if you can't score in Leicester.............Bathman_in_London wrote:Bob Dwyer always comes up with something to stir the pot before a game with England.
Farr-Jones will probably have a comment or two in the next 24 hours too.
doctor_grey- Posts : 12354
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
englandglory4ever wrote:"TOmorrow or next week I might support another team."
I guess that's any other team playing England.
SL and the England camp have done everything possible to stay out of the media for the wrong reasons. But still they publish inane articles where the headline confirms that it is a waste of time reading further. Every article carries the obligatory picture of Sam Burgess in training kit. It is extremely boring stuff. But when it gets accompanied by inadequate Irish centres and has been long ago and now forgotten Australian old fogies having unnecessary pops at the team then it goes beyond friendly rivalry and steps over in to nasty bile filled jealous hatred.
I got to hand it to you though, your victim mentality is not helping matters. You constantly use the word hate, and you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder regarding this issue.
Trust me, I am Welsh, and I do not hate England/English/God Save The Queen blah, blah, blah. Neither do any of the people I know. So for me it is not every team playing England. It will be on Saturday though, especially if things do not go our way this evening.
LordDowlais- Posts : 15419
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
The Ospreys always struggle to score in Leicester
RubyGuby- Posts : 7404
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Must be a personal problem...................RubyGuby wrote:The Ospreys always struggle to score in Leicester
Maybe they should simply plan to stay over on a Saturday night???????
doctor_grey- Posts : 12354
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
disneychilly wrote:doctor_grey wrote:Nonsense.Bob Dwyer and Kaplan wrote:England have been cheating for years
Depends. Either everyone cheats or no one does. Taking a cynical view you take what you can get away with. Teams can cheat in different areas to each other as well so tend to highlight those where other teams break the laws.
This. and some teams do it more than others
TJ- Posts : 8630
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
LondonTiger wrote:GeordieFalcon wrote:Tighthead, this epitomises it for me....and sums up his England team at the moment.Respect. Manners. Humility. Doing right by people. Grafting. These are all principles he learned at the parental knee at Lime Tree Farm, in Culgaith, one of the high points of the Pennines
Aye.
Really the team could do with showing some of the Aussie or Saffer arrogance. they are just too nice and need a bit more devil in them.
hmm, I think you are looking for some negative attention, eh?
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
In this case Bilt arrogance is merely self-belief possessed by teams you don't like.
disneychilly- Posts : 2156
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Of course all teams cheat. Unless a penalty is given away accidentally, then all are given away in the pursuit of gaining an advantage:
Turning in at the scrum - trying to get under the opposition prop to destabilize him so he can't anchor properly - advantage to your own scrum = cheating
Offside - ahead of your own player to gain more time when chasing the up and under = cheating.
Offside in defensive line - trying to close the gap quicker or give attacker less time before the hit = advantage to defending team = cheating.
Not releasing the ball - trying to buy more time = cheating.
Not releasing the man - trying to slow the ball down = cheating.
Not feeding straight in scrum - trying to increase likelihood of winning scrum = cheating.
No attempt at retreating when up field and your full back kicks it long - gaining an advantage by closing the gap quicker = cheating.
Crossing - usually picked up - but blocking/decoy is a more subtle form - trying to obstruct the view/path of defender to give a clearer gap for your team mate to run through = advantage = cheating.
etc.
etc.
etc.
It's everywhere. It's the game.
Turning in at the scrum - trying to get under the opposition prop to destabilize him so he can't anchor properly - advantage to your own scrum = cheating
Offside - ahead of your own player to gain more time when chasing the up and under = cheating.
Offside in defensive line - trying to close the gap quicker or give attacker less time before the hit = advantage to defending team = cheating.
Not releasing the ball - trying to buy more time = cheating.
Not releasing the man - trying to slow the ball down = cheating.
Not feeding straight in scrum - trying to increase likelihood of winning scrum = cheating.
No attempt at retreating when up field and your full back kicks it long - gaining an advantage by closing the gap quicker = cheating.
Crossing - usually picked up - but blocking/decoy is a more subtle form - trying to obstruct the view/path of defender to give a clearer gap for your team mate to run through = advantage = cheating.
etc.
etc.
etc.
It's everywhere. It's the game.
Guest- Guest
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
One thing I have noticed is that no one ever gets pinged for being in front of the kicker from the KO or a Restart. Its usually pretty blatant like the screw feed but its never picked up.
RubyGuby- Posts : 7404
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
The English have heavily criticised Wales/Gethin Jenkins for 'scrum cheating' since 2013. Maybe now you see it isn't just a welsh thing! That said the scrums in international rugby are an absolute mess. Not even the feeds are straight. I'm not expert so I'm simply going to hope there are some miraculous new rules that can be brought it to shore this area up.
In other news, Wales to get 5 points later this evening.
In other news, Wales to get 5 points later this evening.
mikey_dragon- Posts : 15638
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Biltong wrote:maestegmafia wrote:Biltong wrote:I agree Maes, it isn't always about hate, I just like certain teams more than others, simple really.
We get to speak to all different nationalities on websites so it can happen that you may form a certain bias against a specific nation, but it still isn't hate.
It is a word thrown about too loosely.
I am not a big fan of NH teams, but during the Wales vs England game I said to my mates I would like Wales to win.
Purely because I can't stand the media hype over England at the moment.
Bring them down a few notches I say.
TOmorrow or next week I might support another team.
Would you mind supporting us for a few more games mate... You might just be our lucky mascot ???
It all depends mate. We will have to see how everything unfolds
Fancy avoiding the boys in red in the quarter finals?
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Funny how Dwyer is always in the headlines attacking the opposition before a big game for Australia.
profitius- Posts : 4726
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
maestegmafia wrote:Biltong wrote:maestegmafia wrote:Biltong wrote:I agree Maes, it isn't always about hate, I just like certain teams more than others, simple really.
We get to speak to all different nationalities on websites so it can happen that you may form a certain bias against a specific nation, but it still isn't hate.
It is a word thrown about too loosely.
I am not a big fan of NH teams, but during the Wales vs England game I said to my mates I would like Wales to win.
Purely because I can't stand the media hype over England at the moment.
Bring them down a few notches I say.
TOmorrow or next week I might support another team.
Would you mind supporting us for a few more games mate... You might just be our lucky mascot ???
It all depends mate. We will have to see how everything unfolds
Fancy avoiding the boys in red in the quarter finals?
With all the injuries you guys are having it might be our best bet to get to a semi final, sorry.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
The only thing from the OP that I agree with is the Burgess piece by Darcy. However, I get the feeling that a lot of England fans would agree with it too. Why oh why did Lancaster not select Burrell? This defies belief IMO.
It might shock a few people but I like the England team and always have. There is certainly a lot to like about this squad and management. The only gripe I have is that the RFU has earned £200m so far (source Sunday times Business supplement 27th Oct) in gate receipts on a world cup that cost them £80m. On top of this there is an estimated £982m boost to the British economy.
The economic boost is fair game IMO however given that a lot of fans are set to miss out on all games because of inflated ticket prices I think that the profit that the RFU is set to haul in is grotesque. Therefore, knowing that the RFU would lose approx £50m in endorsements if England got knocked out of their own WC part of me would now prefer Wales and Australia to advance and not England whereas before I wanted Wales to get KO'd.
That said it has been a great tournament so far and the RFU has done a great job.
It might shock a few people but I like the England team and always have. There is certainly a lot to like about this squad and management. The only gripe I have is that the RFU has earned £200m so far (source Sunday times Business supplement 27th Oct) in gate receipts on a world cup that cost them £80m. On top of this there is an estimated £982m boost to the British economy.
The economic boost is fair game IMO however given that a lot of fans are set to miss out on all games because of inflated ticket prices I think that the profit that the RFU is set to haul in is grotesque. Therefore, knowing that the RFU would lose approx £50m in endorsements if England got knocked out of their own WC part of me would now prefer Wales and Australia to advance and not England whereas before I wanted Wales to get KO'd.
That said it has been a great tournament so far and the RFU has done a great job.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
GunsGerms wrote:
That said it has been a great tournament so far and the RFU has done a great job.
Apart from English fans going to games sans England and singing swing low sweet chariot.... and not respecting the haka or cibi...or kickers...or the RFU banning bag pipes, and the tmo awarding bogus tries to England and the tier 2 countries getting shafted by the fixtures and lack of trains and Peloma Faith and Geordan Murphies mike being turned down and those awful O2 adds with Chris Robshaw looking like a big dopey giant and ...
I'm hoping it'll improve come the ko stages though.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
The minnows always get shafted. Thats world rugbys fault not the RFU. They schedule the event.
As for the bagpipes. That was a joke I agree.
I dont care about Swing Low. Fans can sing if they want IMO as long as it isnt offending anyone.
You have to admit the facilities, including grounds, training facilities and hotels for the teams have been really good. Ireland's training pitch is an exact replica of wembley, inch for inch including slight pitch camber.
As for the bagpipes. That was a joke I agree.
I dont care about Swing Low. Fans can sing if they want IMO as long as it isnt offending anyone.
You have to admit the facilities, including grounds, training facilities and hotels for the teams have been really good. Ireland's training pitch is an exact replica of wembley, inch for inch including slight pitch camber.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Not quite, GunsGerms. It cost them £80m just for the right to hold the tournament. They also then have the costs of running the tournament.
I think the RFU's projected profit if they sell every ticket is around £10-15m. Which sounds a lot but is a margin of less than 10% on a fairly risky venture. The bulk of the profut goes to the IRB - but that's its primary source of funds for 8 years and a lot of it goes back into rugby.
I don't like the ticket prices, but I understand why they are what they are, and it's not to line the RFU's pockets
Likewise the benefits to the UK come at the cost of a fair amount of infrastructure build to improve transport links to Twickenham etc.
I think the RFU's projected profit if they sell every ticket is around £10-15m. Which sounds a lot but is a margin of less than 10% on a fairly risky venture. The bulk of the profut goes to the IRB - but that's its primary source of funds for 8 years and a lot of it goes back into rugby.
I don't like the ticket prices, but I understand why they are what they are, and it's not to line the RFU's pockets
Likewise the benefits to the UK come at the cost of a fair amount of infrastructure build to improve transport links to Twickenham etc.
Poorfour- Posts : 6429
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Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Poorfour wrote:Not quite, GunsGerms. It cost them £80m just for the right to hold the tournament. They also then have the costs of running the tournament.
I think the RFU's projected profit if they sell every ticket is around £10-15m. Which sounds a lot but is a margin of less than 10% on a fairly risky venture. The bulk of the profut goes to the IRB - but that's its primary source of funds for 8 years and a lot of it goes back into rugby.
I don't like the ticket prices, but I understand why they are what they are, and it's not to line the RFU's pockets
Likewise the benefits to the UK come at the cost of a fair amount of infrastructure build to improve transport links to Twickenham etc.
Yes you're right I get that but I didnt think the profit margin would be as tight as 10%. If true I think that's perfect. Do you have a source? Much appreciated if so.
The economic benefits to the UK are fair game in my opinion.
The IRB gets a fee of £80 plus endorsements and TV sales. Havent seen any figures on that however, the times estimates that overall economic activity generated is approx £2.2bn so there is no doubt the IRB or World Rugby gains a lot.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Gees Robshaw getting some slating now by Eddie Jones.
I hope England really put up those ozzies!
... but hopefully still lose by 2 points ...
I hope England really put up those ozzies!
... but hopefully still lose by 2 points ...
rodders- Moderator
- Posts : 25501
Join date : 2011-05-20
Age : 43
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
GunsGerms wrote:
Yes you're right I get that but I didnt think the profit margin would be as tight as 10%. If true I think that's perfect. Do you have a source? Much appreciated if so.
From rugby World in 2013:
The organisers were proud to announce that 92 per cent of the population would be within 50 miles of one of the stadiums. It will still be a testament to the organizers if they can mobilise the casual fan to games and reach the 2.3m ticket sales needed to break-even, especially when the behemoth that is the Premier League is in full flow.
Read more at http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/blogs/with-fixtures-and-venues-announced-the-countdown-is-on-29537#zmxTd1oxDAAhZG1Z.99
And from Daily Mail last month:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3247208/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-ticket-sales-break-new-ground-tournament-proving-sport-s-biggest-just-six-days.html wrote:Rugby World Cup ticket sales hit 2.35million, a new tournament record
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Shock,horror England have been cheating for years,try Decades like EVERY other Country.
Before the days of cards the culprit would be scragged in the Lineout or Ruck or just
punched out.
Such tactics today would earn a Red Card maybe the object of the exercise,since under current
laws the IRB recognize.It is almost impossible to legally hook the ball it being 2 balls lengths
too far from the hooking foot.Bent feeds are be more or less tolerated solutions will be applied
post RWC
Bob Dwyer or Eddie Jones approaching the Ref pre match standard practice during 3Ns years
ago nothing new there.
EVERY team needs to play the Ref,and it would be sensible to know his foibles Pre.match so
as not to transgress.
BUT when a REF shows you he`s something hot on such as breakdown transgressions
only an idiot would keep on doing the same thing.
Before the days of cards the culprit would be scragged in the Lineout or Ruck or just
punched out.
Such tactics today would earn a Red Card maybe the object of the exercise,since under current
laws the IRB recognize.It is almost impossible to legally hook the ball it being 2 balls lengths
too far from the hooking foot.Bent feeds are be more or less tolerated solutions will be applied
post RWC
Bob Dwyer or Eddie Jones approaching the Ref pre match standard practice during 3Ns years
ago nothing new there.
EVERY team needs to play the Ref,and it would be sensible to know his foibles Pre.match so
as not to transgress.
BUT when a REF shows you he`s something hot on such as breakdown transgressions
only an idiot would keep on doing the same thing.
emack2- Posts : 3686
Join date : 2011-04-01
Age : 81
Location : Bournemouth
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
LondonTiger wrote:GunsGerms wrote:
Yes you're right I get that but I didnt think the profit margin would be as tight as 10%. If true I think that's perfect. Do you have a source? Much appreciated if so.
From rugby World in 2013:The organisers were proud to announce that 92 per cent of the population would be within 50 miles of one of the stadiums. It will still be a testament to the organizers if they can mobilise the casual fan to games and reach the 2.3m ticket sales needed to break-even, especially when the behemoth that is the Premier League is in full flow.
Read more at http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/blogs/with-fixtures-and-venues-announced-the-countdown-is-on-29537#zmxTd1oxDAAhZG1Z.99
And from Daily Mail last month:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3247208/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-ticket-sales-break-new-ground-tournament-proving-sport-s-biggest-just-six-days.html wrote:Rugby World Cup ticket sales hit 2.35million, a new tournament record
Thank you so much. Ok in fairness the RFU have done a fine job.
I wonder how much of the break even target accounts for the fee to prise Burgess away from the Rabbitos?...
.........only joking..........
.......not
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Joking aside (or not), Burgess is sponsored by Canterbury and guess who makes the kit for both Bath and England? If you were of cynical mind, you might see a connection, especially if the kit supplier for said club changed to Canterbury in the first full season he will play for them.
But back on the WC, I think the RFU have done really well so far in terms of fans in attendance, and all the atmosphere that goes with full stadia.
But back on the WC, I think the RFU have done really well so far in terms of fans in attendance, and all the atmosphere that goes with full stadia.
Bathman_in_London- Posts : 2266
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Bathman_in_London wrote:Joking aside (or not), Burgess is sponsored by Canterbury and guess who makes the kit for both Bath and England? If you were of cynical mind, you might see a connection, especially if the kit supplier for said club changed to Canterbury in the first full season he will play for them.
But back on the WC, I think the RFU have done really well so far in terms of fans in attendance, and all the atmosphere that goes with full stadia.
The whole Burgess saga does reek Im afraid.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Reek of what? Burgess is one of the most marketable products in rugby - league or union - and both the RFU and Bath want him as a player. I don't see what the issue is. Lancaster sees him as someone who can add something to the England team, regardless of his union experience or performances to date, but that is his call and he will live or die as England coach on how Burgess and others perform.
So where is the conspiracy, the 'underhand dealings', something that reeks?
As to Dwyer and Kaplan whining about England, it is the same as Carling and Barnes slagging off Robshaw - commentators feel they have to say something incendiary to get quoted and earn a crust. As many others have said, every team pushes the boundaries, but that is what the referee is there for. I would be very unhappy if I was a world cup referee from an England game being told I was either blind, biased or did not know the rules (particularly by an ex referee who was as awful as Kaplan was).
So where is the conspiracy, the 'underhand dealings', something that reeks?
As to Dwyer and Kaplan whining about England, it is the same as Carling and Barnes slagging off Robshaw - commentators feel they have to say something incendiary to get quoted and earn a crust. As many others have said, every team pushes the boundaries, but that is what the referee is there for. I would be very unhappy if I was a world cup referee from an England game being told I was either blind, biased or did not know the rules (particularly by an ex referee who was as awful as Kaplan was).
nlpnlp- Posts : 509
Join date : 2011-06-14
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
"I wonder how much of the break even target accounts for the fee to prise Burgess away from the Rabbitos?...
.........only joking..........
.......not"
Oh dear our near neighbours really are jealous of our big Sam aren't they. Can't stop talking about him can they? Quite amusing.
.........only joking..........
.......not"
Oh dear our near neighbours really are jealous of our big Sam aren't they. Can't stop talking about him can they? Quite amusing.
englandglory4ever- Posts : 1635
Join date : 2011-08-04
Location : Brighton, Sussex
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Jounos have to write inflamatory stuff. If not they don't get published and no money. Its a real shame that England people have to write debilitating stuff about their own team. Shows the dollar is mightier than patriotism. 99% of what's been written in the media so far has been pure horse shoite. Most of it not worth wasting anybody's time reading past the headline.
englandglory4ever- Posts : 1635
Join date : 2011-08-04
Location : Brighton, Sussex
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
englandglory4ever wrote:Jounos have to write inflamatory stuff. If not they don't get published and no money. Its a real shame that England people have to write debilitating stuff about their own team. Shows the dollar is mightier than patriotism. 99% of what's been written in the media so far has been pure horse shoite. Most of it not worth wasting anybody's time reading past the headline.
Why do you feel you have to write inflammatory stuff all the time...?
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
englandglory4ever wrote:"I wonder how much of the break even target accounts for the fee to prise Burgess away from the Rabbitos?...
.........only joking..........
.......not"
Oh dear our near neighbours really are jealous of our big Sam aren't they. Can't stop talking about him can they? Quite amusing.
You are certainly one of the most delusional posters I have seen on these boards, and that is saying something!
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: "England have been cheating for years" - Bob Dwyer and Kaplan
Rory_Gallagher wrote:englandglory4ever wrote:"I wonder how much of the break even target accounts for the fee to prise Burgess away from the Rabbitos?...
.........only joking..........
.......not"
Oh dear our near neighbours really are jealous of our big Sam aren't they. Can't stop talking about him can they? Quite amusing.
You are certainly one of the most delusional posters I have seen on these boards, and that is saying something!
Well Ireland know all about him. Guess that's why you are so jealous. He nearly beat your lot single handed.
englandglory4ever- Posts : 1635
Join date : 2011-08-04
Location : Brighton, Sussex
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