Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread X-rated

by funnyExiledScot Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:41 pm

Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread X-rated - Page 10 Richar11

1872 Champions

Glasgow
Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread X-rated - Page 10 Only_f11

1872 Runners-up

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:43 pm

Riskysports wrote:I think if Jackson and Taylor keep playing like they are - then they have to be in the match day squad come 6 nations

Taylor is looking very assured and even one of the stronger players is a top class side - Now if he could get a hair cut - then he could be a started

Jackson starting to some some real form - and if he settles down and keeps that form - then we have a real option

The next couple of months going to be key

I’ve always said that I don’t think Horne-Bennett works at international level and Taylor might be the answer to that if Scott’s form doesn’t improve and Dunbar carries on being an injury liability.

I’d be very, very happy it Taylor was persuaded to come to Edinburgh. Can’t see it happening though.

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:48 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:My own view is that this whole Plan A and Plan B stuff is utter tripe (that's a Glaswegian delicacy by the way).

Weir is a bad rugby player. He doesn't "control" the game any better than the other two. His kicking game has, for at least 2 years, been dreadful. That he squanders attacking opportunities by hoofing the ball badly doesn't make him any better at controlling a game than the other two. Russell and Jackson are both in a different league. They are capable of performances that Weir just doesn't have in him. The real contrast is between two skillful players and a very limited player. With respect to taking risks I rank them both the same. I don't think Russell or Jackson are any less likely to make an error than Weir, but they are far more likely to create a try.

I also don't subscribe to the "we've seen it all before with Jackson" dogma. Why are Scotland fans so suspicious of Jackson, and not with Russell and Weir?? Russell was p1ss poor in the 6 Nations, and Weir was an utter calamity under Scott Johnson. His performance against France was the worst I've seen from a Scotland 10 since Parks' first stint at 10 under Matt Williams. At least with Jackson (and Russell) we know that they are capable of playing the sort of rugby we want to be playing. What on earth is Weir for?

Russell and Jackson for me come the 6 Nations. With the backline we now have, we need footballers at 10. We can't afford to neuter the backline by picking Meatball to play this mythical Plan B.

Don't hold back - say what you really think FES! Laugh

When I said "we've seen it all before with Jackson" I mean it in terms of consistency. As great as Jackson was yesterday I think that was only his 2nd start. We've seen him show short bouts of very good form before followed by mediocrity / headless chicken stuff. Hopefully he can get a run of games now (Gopparth is available next week) and show consistency leading up to the 6N.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:50 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Anyone still think Weir is better than Jackson??

Apart from the one responsible of the Glasgow recruitment and players contracts, were there people thinking that? Can't remember anyone on here at least.

There were many on here. I'd say the majority were for ditching Jackson in favour of Weir. There were times when I would have probably said the same myself based on form. Weir came through strong and looked very much the future at a time when Jackson just couldn't get rapiers like Morrison, De Luca and Lamont to play like the ABs. Weir just hasn't developed, whereas Jackson has always had more talent, and is now showing some form. As Risky rightly says, it's early days for Jackson at Wasps, but he had so much more to offer than Weir, I think he's already done enough to convince me that he's a better option for Scotland, particularly now we have some proper backs.

by EWT Spoons Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:19 pm

I agree with FES on this one.

When Weir was coming through, after that game against Saxons, I along with many others was calling for Weir to be in the side. But he's not improved and if anything he's regressed.

We have talented backs and Jackson can actually pass the ball and get the backline involved, whereas Weir tends to hoof the ball away. Which has it's merits at times but we either don't have the chasing game to compliment it, or his kicking isn't all that good, or both. Either way Jackson at the moment is looking the better bet to sit on the bench behind Finn, given the style of play we are trying to implement.

I know it's early days for Jackson at Wasps, but he started last season really well before picking up an injury and seems to be doing the same now. He's got a few more weeks before the 6 nations kicks off to show this isn't a flash in the pan and he deserves to be in with a shout. He's certainly likely to have more gametime under his belt than Weir is at least

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:23 pm

Taylor and Jackson both had superb weekends.

I do however think the MFL tag is going to come home to roost in the Glasgow pack. What a dreadful performance against the saints!

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:32 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Taylor and Jackson both had superb weekends.

I do however think the MFL tag is going to come home to roost in the Glasgow pack. What a dreadful performance against the saints!

Not just the forwards either. Apparently the tackling in the backs in the run-up to the Pisi try was straight from the Dan Parks "saloon door" tackling manual.

Hopefully it was just a bad day at the office for the soap dodgers.

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:33 pm

If you haven't seen Hogg's attempted high ball catch and are in need of a picard

moment for you Monday morning - check out the highlights

by VinceWLB Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:35 pm

I remember the days when Glasgow had a great defense. Even in the league they have conceded 15 tries in 7 games, Edinburgh only 6!

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:37 pm

Hogg's attempted tackle for their 2nd try will also bring out a similar reaction.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:42 pm

Who would Glasgow use at 15 if Hogg is dropped for Treviso? Murchie is out is he not?

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:43 pm

Seymour I suspect with Big T or Juniour on the wing.

by TJ Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:10 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:I agree with FES on this one.

When Weir was coming through, after that game against Saxons, I along with many others was calling for Weir to be in the side. But he's not improved and if anything he's regressed.

We have talented backs and Jackson can actually pass the ball and get the backline involved, whereas Weir tends to hoof the ball away. Which has it's merits at times but we either don't have the chasing game to compliment it, or his kicking isn't all that good, or both. Either way Jackson at the moment is looking the better bet to sit on the bench behind Finn, given the style of play we are trying to implement.

I know it's early days for Jackson at Wasps, but he started last season really well before picking up an injury and seems to be doing the same now. He's got a few more weeks before the 6 nations kicks off to show this isn't a flash in the pan and he deserves to be in with a shout. He's certainly likely to have more gametime under his belt than Weir is at least

Jackson is showing good form no doubt - but still knocked on an easy catch. I do fear for his inconsistency but he hasn't had the chance to play with the rest of the current scotland team. Competition for the Scotland shirt can only be good.

As for Weir - he simply has not had the game time he needs for the last 3 years. He needs to move to a club where he is the number one 10 - even if that means going to the english or French second division. Being 2nd in line at Glasgow is getting him nowhere

by TJ Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Riskysports wrote:I think if Jackson and Taylor keep playing like they are - then they have to be in the match day squad come 6 nations

Taylor is looking very assured and even one of the stronger players is a top class side - Now if he could get a hair cut - then he could be a started

Jackson starting to some some real form - and if he settles down and keeps that form - then we have a real option

The next couple of months going to be key

I’ve always said that I don’t think Horne-Bennett works at international level and Taylor might be the answer to that if Scott’s form doesn’t improve and Dunbar carries on being an injury liability.

I’d be very, very happy it Taylor was persuaded to come to Edinburgh. Can’t see it happening though.

Hornes form is fantastic tho - and he is running around folk for fun rather than trying to run thru them - and IMO is the form 12 right now. Not even looking weak in defense. Good to see Taylor hitting form tho. Right now I would play Horne / Bennett with Taylor on the bench I think

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Agreed on Horne. The only caveat is his tackling. He isn't ducking them or missing them, just not stopping his man dead, and by all accounts Burrell had the advantage line at his mercy at the weekend and gave Saints all the momentum they needed by charging at Russell/Horne.

Still, with Dunbar out and Scott still short of form, I'd go with Horne at 12. Taylor's form has come at 13, and it would be wrong to ask him to perform a different job for Scotland and assume his form will transfer. That's a mistake we've made all too often. Taylor is challenging Bennett, and Bennett still has credit in the Bank of fES from his World Cup performances.

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:28 pm

My concern is that every 6N team bar Italy has a very physical midfield and I just don’t think Russell-Horne-Bennett would cope at the higher level defensively.

I say they wouldn’t cope, but I suspect they would get the man down but will probably have to give away to gainline to do so, giving the opposition easy front foot ball.

I just think we need a good big ‘un in there somewhere whether it is Dunbar, Scott or Taylor – whoever is fit or on form.

by TJ Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:30 pm

As long as he stops his man it will do - you can't have everything and I would rather Scotland went for attack and to outscore the opposition rather than go for defense and be unable to score - see England in the WC for why Wink

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:36 pm

TJ wrote:As long as he stops his man it will do - you can't have everything and I would rather Scotland went for attack and to outscore the opposition rather than go for defense and be unable to score - see England in the WC for why

This is where we disagree to an extent - quick ball is everything in rugby and if the opposition are regularly getting over the gainline in the midfield then we are going to struggle.

I do agree though that I'd rather have attacking prowess yet defensive deficiency over the other way round (within reason).

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:37 pm

It's a tough decision actually, but I would give Horne a chance. I certainly wouldn't sacrifice Russell or Bennett just to get more muscle into the backs, you'd lose too much. I'm also not convinced by Scott at the moment, in attack or defence. He's bigger and stronger than Horne, but he's got a knack of "not being there" when tackles need to be made. That's different to missing tackles, and I'm not accusing him of anything other than bad positioning, but I've yet to see all that new strength being used to really put in a defensive shift and knock players back.

by EWT Spoons Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:43 pm

Is Horne still considered a back up 10 at Glasgow? Or is he now just primarily classed at 12?

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:58 pm

He seems to play mostly at 12 for Glasgow. Presumably Meatball would be seen as second choice 10?

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:04 pm

Horne was the only reserve 10 on Saturday

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:08 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Horne was the only reserve 10 on Saturday

But what about Plan B?? Wink

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:09 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Horne was the only reserve 10 on Saturday

But what about Plan B??

Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread X-rated - Page 10 Wad

by jimbopip Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:11 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:It's a tough decision actually, but I would give Horne a chance. I certainly wouldn't sacrifice Russell or Bennett just to get more muscle into the backs, you'd lose too much. I'm also not convinced by Scott at the moment, in attack or defence. He's bigger and stronger than Horne, but he's got a knack of "not being there" when tackles need to be made. That's different to missing tackles, and I'm not accusing him of anything other than bad positioning, but I've yet to see all that new strength being used to really put in a defensive shift and knock players back.

Strangely enough, I agree with almost every word of this. Except I think Matt Scott's problems are much deeper than "not being there". The first half against England at Twickers and the Samoa game are shockingly bad. I don't think it's just about not knowing the systems: he seems actively to be trying to get away from the attackers. Like Dan Parks, but with speed and no shame at all.

As for Hornee's position; when Pudding is fit and on form he'll be back in at 12. I think Hornee and Richie V are cursed by being good enough to cover a few positions really well (10,12, 15 for Hornee) but not be as outstandingly good as the incumbents.

by R!skysports Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:15 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Agreed on Horne. The only caveat is his tackling. He isn't ducking them or missing them, just not stopping his man dead, and by all accounts Burrell had the advantage line at his mercy at the weekend and gave Saints all the momentum they needed by charging at Russell/Horne.

Still, with Dunbar out and Scott still short of form, I'd go with Horne at 12. Taylor's form has come at 13, and it would be wrong to ask him to perform a different job for Scotland and assume his form will transfer. That's a mistake we've made all too often. Taylor is challenging Bennett, and Bennett still has credit in the Bank of fES from his World Cup performances.

Thank goodness we do not have a policy of only picking players playing in Scotland

Not only would we miss out of some of our key players - we would also lose our cash reserves in the off shore - hidden - banking world of FES

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:03 pm

Not sure you can mention "cash reserves" in the context of a discussion on Scottish rugby!

Fortress Scotland was a daft policy, particularly with only two Pro teams.

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:40 pm

I've come across this worrying article - 32 Edinburgh players who are running to the end of their contract.

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/32-edinburgh-players-have-yet-to-be-offered-a-new-contract/

I've highlighted them as

Black - please please please don't go
Green - would be nice to keep them
Red - Meh, not fussed

John Andress

Sam Beard

Simon Berghan

Tom Brown

Phil Burleigh

Neil Cochrane

Mike Coman

Jack Cuthbert

Chris Dean

Allan Dell

Alasdair Dickinson

Dougie Fife

Ross Ford

Nathan Fowles

Grant Gilchrist

Roddy Grant

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

Damien Hoyland

Otulea Katoa

Sam Kennedy

Stuart McInally

Fraser McKenzie

Nick McLennan

WP Nel

Jamie Ritchie

Matt Scott

Grant Shiells

Andries Strauss

Rory Sutherland

Alex Toolis

Ben Toolis

Either way - there are a lot of new contracts needing offered, no doubt on improved salaries.

by R!skysports Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:09 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I've come across this worrying article - 32 Edinburgh players who are running to the end of their contract.

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/32-edinburgh-players-have-yet-to-be-offered-a-new-contract/

I've highlighted them as

Black - please please please don't go
Green - would be nice to keep them
Red - Meh, not fussed

John Andress

Sam Beard

Simon Berghan

Tom Brown

Phil Burleigh

Neil Cochrane

Mike Coman

Jack Cuthbert

Chris Dean

Allan Dell

Alasdair Dickinson

Dougie Fife

Ross Ford

Nathan Fowles

Grant Gilchrist

Roddy Grant

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

Damien Hoyland

Otulea Katoa

Sam Kennedy

Stuart McInally

Fraser McKenzie

Nick McLennan

WP Nel

Jamie Ritchie

Matt Scott

Grant Shiells

Andries Strauss

Rory Sutherland

Alex Toolis

Ben Toolis

Either way - there are a lot of new contracts needing offered, no doubt on improved salaries.

Since we do pick up on the technical skills of certain posters when quoting, I would feel it remiss of me not to point out that there are no Black text

What do you want to do with the blue?

by jimbopip Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:16 pm

RDW, I wouldn't stand for anyone criticising my technical skills if I were you. Whistle

by **RDW** Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:32 pm

What you on about? Is the standard text colour not black?

It looks it to me...

by Nematode Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:27 pm

I reckon the 5 key players to keep are Ben Toolis, WP Nel, Dickinson, Sutherland and SHC.

I reckon our front row will have a high price tag given its dominance though.

Scott might be relatively cheap to retain - his injury rate is high and will be with Scotland frequently.

by VinceWLB Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:27 am

Alex Toolis has showed up greatly in the last few games, i would definitely keep him.

by cakeordeath Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:31 am

Zander Fagerson may be a good prop, but I am not so sure he is good at locking his phone. He just tweeted his undying love of Dan Carter, to Dan Carter, and expressed his wish to move to 10.

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:48 pm

TJ wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:I agree with FES on this one.

When Weir was coming through, after that game against Saxons, I along with many others was calling for Weir to be in the side. But he's not improved and if anything he's regressed.

We have talented backs and Jackson can actually pass the ball and get the backline involved, whereas Weir tends to hoof the ball away. Which has it's merits at times but we either don't have the chasing game to compliment it, or his kicking isn't all that good, or both. Either way Jackson at the moment is looking the better bet to sit on the bench behind Finn, given the style of play we are trying to implement.

I know it's early days for Jackson at Wasps, but he started last season really well before picking up an injury and seems to be doing the same now. He's got a few more weeks before the 6 nations kicks off to show this isn't a flash in the pan and he deserves to be in with a shout. He's certainly likely to have more gametime under his belt than Weir is at least

Jackson is showing good form no doubt - but still knocked on an easy catch. I do fear for his inconsistency but he hasn't had the chance to play with the rest of the current scotland team. Competition for the Scotland shirt can only be good.

As for Weir - he simply has not had the game time he needs for the last 3 years. He needs to move to a club where he is the number one 10 - even if that means going to the english or French second division. Being 2nd in line at Glasgow is getting him nowhere

You are nit picking now. If Weir ever played like that against Toulon he would wake up chewing his pillow. There is a good reason Jackson was sold. Wasps wouldn't have wanted Weir!

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:50 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:What you on about? Is the standard text colour not black?

It looks it to me...

This is black text

by R!skysports Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:54 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:What you on about? Is the standard text colour not black?

It looks it to me...

Blue
Black
Green
A cake cake

by **George Carlin** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:03 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:What you on about? Is the standard text colour not black?

It looks it to me...

This is black text

How terribly racist. Run

by **RDW** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:08 pm

Well screw you all - it looks black to me and you all know what I meant!

by **RDW** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:09 pm

Also, no one got anything to say about such a big list of players out of contract?

by EWT Spoons Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:11 pm

There are some worrying names on that list for sure, it also has to be almost the entire squad are coming up for renewal, which seems really bad planning.

Fingers crossed the black and green players get resigned, and we lose the red ones.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:18 pm

RD, is the Sam Kennedy on your list the same as Sean Kennedy the SH ?

by **RDW** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:19 pm

Nel is the biggest worry - an international class tighthead in his prime will have a lot of interest.

It would stick in the throat a bit of he left so soon after qualifying for Scotland, but big money generally always wins.

by **RDW** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:20 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:RD, is the Sam Kennedy on your list the same as Sean Kennedy the SH ?

Well noticed - a mistake in the original article.

Maybe a bit harsh making him a red, but he's never overly impressed me.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:22 pm

Well we could take him and you can have Hart back. Kennedy was good for us when Cusiter and Pyrgos were injured.

by **George Carlin** Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:29 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well screw you all - it looks black to me and you all know what I meant!

I know someone with whom you would have a wonderful meeting of minds:
Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread X-rated - Page 10 Crazy-10

by R!skysports Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:30 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Also, no one got anything to say about such a big list of players out of contract?

Because that would be far to close to discussing real rugby issues and we all know we are more irrelevant than that

"Chocolate Bicycle Droppings"

by funnyExiledScot Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:32 pm

The list is a concern. The priority for me is to keep our first choice front row. Imagine the Solomons playing style without a decent front row! Doesn't bear thinking about.

Of the reds I'd be fine with Strauss leaving. He's NSQ and NVG (not very good). McLennan has had not impact at all, haven't seen Katoa play and Andress has been disappointing (although would need replacing).

I'd keep Cuthbert and Coman actually. They won't be expensive and are good squad options to have.

by funnyExiledScot Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:35 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Well screw you all - it looks black to me and you all know what I meant!
I know someone with whom you would have a wonderful meeting of minds:

My Gran (approaching 90) would get along with Uncle Dougie. When we moved to Edinburgh from London my poor wife had to endure an afternoon coffee session with GrannyfES, who promptly told Mrs fES that moving to Edinburgh was a great decision: "more pale faces".

For the first time in our marriage, Mrs fES was speechless.

by EWT Spoons Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:43 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nel is the biggest worry - an international class tighthead in his prime will have a lot of interest.

It would stick in the throat a bit of he left so soon after qualifying for Scotland, but big money generally always wins.

Whilst I would be gutted if Nel left, I wouldn't begrudge him of a move.

He's given his all for Edinburgh over the last 3 years and played superbly, and probably played more mins than most other players. His stock is unlikely to be higher than it is now so this is his best chance to get a good deal. He's also likely to want to actually win something before he calls it a day and sadly that seems unlikely with Edinburgh.

Whilst yeah it would be nice if players showed loyalty etc but if he wasn't playing well we'd be calling for him to be dropped, so it works both ways, and pro rugby is a very short career.

by R!skysports Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:33 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Nel is the biggest worry - an international class tighthead in his prime will have a lot of interest.

It would stick in the throat a bit of he left so soon after qualifying for Scotland, but big money generally always wins.

Whilst I would be gutted if Nel left, I wouldn't begrudge him of a move.

He's given his all for Edinburgh over the last 3 years and played superbly, and probably played more mins than most other players. His stock is unlikely to be higher than it is now so this is his best chance to get a good deal. He's also likely to want to actually win something before he calls it a day and sadly that seems unlikely with Edinburgh.

Whilst yeah it would be nice if players showed loyalty etc but if he wasn't playing well we'd be calling for him to be dropped, so it works both ways, and pro rugby is a very short career.

If he left - I would be very annoyed - as it would highlight the mockery of the resident rule -we all remember Flutey and how we derided that

If he must leave - maybe to Glasgow :-)

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