Another mass shooting at a college in America

First topic message reminder :

Umpqua Community College was locked down Thursday morning after reports of a shooting on campus.

The Douglas County Sheriff's Office said the 911 center received reports of an active shooter around 10:38 a.m.

An Oregon State Police spokesman told CNN there were 10 confirmed deaths and more than 20 wounded. Hospitals as far away as Eugene were preparing to take patients.

The shooter was reportedly detained.

The FBI was sending agents from several offices around the state to Roseburg, and the ATF said it was sending additional units from Portland and a K-9 team to assist in the investigation.

Fire District No. 2 in Douglas County tweeted a warning for people to stay away from the area.

According to the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, students, faculty and staff were being transported to the Douglas County Fairgrounds.

GSC wrote:Media reporting 12 dead in another shooting in Cali

Sounds like terrorism to me...

The sort of thing that could happen anywhere..

But do use it as as an excuse to lump on the USA and willingly forget 47 percent of Americans are for stricter gun control and 51 percent didn't vote for George Bush.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

GSC wrote:Media reporting 12 dead in another shooting in Cali

Sounds like terrorism to me...

The sort of thing that could happen anywhere..

But do use it as as an excuse to lump on the USA and willingly forget 47 percent of Americans are for stricter gun control and 51 percent didn't vote for George Bush.

In this instance I agree. Posted that when the only update was the media reporting deaths.

'Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen Malik, 27' confirmed as shooter.

Motive as yet unknown, wonder if American response to Syria will change depending on whether the motive turns out to be workplace dispute or Islamic terrorism.

Can't see it changing, TopHat.

From what McCain said yesterday he favours a men on the ground approach, and i think that is where we are heading.

McCain has wanted action in Syria for ages......He's a hawk.

Luckily we have Obama for another 14 months.............So the GOP will have to wait for everything they want.

It will be interesting to see how President Trump handles this.

Truss, do you not think that people are somewhat not wrong to go to domestic instances with the US and also that it's an indictment to some extent that it is a natural reaction? I would suggest both are fair opinions on the basic information, which is obviously going to be discussed?

Maybe but the wiser will save their opinion until they have actual information.

It's conversation with no ramifications, plus you have initial thoughts, undeniably. You have an initial thought, verbalised or not, and I think it's natural right now that you probably think "domestic incident" first. I'm not a politician, so my points are not important and I needn't consider my public position and influence. 

The forum is somewhat conversational. Thus there is room for moving judgement

At the same time, if you give snap judgments, people can criticise.

It does seem to be the case that the guy and his partner went postal on his work colleagues being that he worked there, had an argument, then returned a few hours later.

Hero wrote:It does seem to be the case that the guy and his partner went postal on his work colleagues being that he worked there, had an argument, then returned a few hours later.

Suggestion is that it appears to be planned, not spontaneous/reactionary, albeit still unconfirmed whether workplace related (most likely) or terrorism.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in America, how many armed police does it take to kill an unarmed (no firearm) random lone black dude?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343872/It-looks-like-execution-Cops-surround-gun-black-man-San-Francisco-street.html

10+ apparently....

It does not matter what the motives were for this guy and his wife shooting up a centre......

1 - Its a place that aids disabled people
2 - He has a muslim/non white name and that is good enough for 95% of the already dead American public.

As regards for the cop shooting posted by Toppy. It looks like some cop version of the St Valentines day massacre.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Truss, do you not think that people are somewhat not wrong to go to domestic instances with the US and also that it's an indictment to some extent that it is a natural reaction? I would suggest both are fair opinions on the basic information, which is obviously going to be discussed?

The founding fathers decided to write the second amendment for valid reasons and we are stuck with it..

This stuff happens...Just have to hope it doesn't happen to you or your loved ones..

We are where we are.....

TopHat24/7 wrote:Meanwhile, elsewhere in America, how many armed police does it take to kill an unarmed (no firearm) random lone black dude?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343872/It-looks-like-execution-Cops-surround-gun-black-man-San-Francisco-street.html

10+ apparently....

That is horrendous.

It happens over here on trains..

Enough of the kindergarten anti-US crap.

Happened, 10 years ago.

Alistair wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Meanwhile, elsewhere in America, how many armed police does it take to kill an unarmed (no firearm) random lone black dude?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343872/It-looks-like-execution-Cops-surround-gun-black-man-San-Francisco-street.html

10+ apparently....

That is horrendous.

Can you imagine that over here??? We had uproar over a drunk smackhead getting a backhander when not getting out of the way of riot police.

This is 10+ armed cops versus a single guy with no firearm and no other distractions cowering with his back to the wall.

Scottrf wrote:Happened, 10 years ago.

Probably the only time as well?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It happens over here on trains..

Enough of the kindergarten anti-US crap.

No it does'nt that was mistaken identity. Tragic but an accident.

10 plus cops all pointing their guns at 1 man holding a knife who may or may not be mentally ill still he is 1 man obviously not armed with a gun where is the training.

Is this what they call American exceptionalism?????

Cops back home have a tough job and do it admirably...

Not like the fun time cops in this Country have..Barrel of laughs over here...

They only have to use firearms sparingly and can't even do that without screwing up...

Does screwing up mean not shooting the criminal? Should we all take the US heavy handed approach?

We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill...

Stop being an apologist for brutality, Truss.

A Taser would have worked just fine.

No we should use your approach Alistair...where all bad men get away with it because innocent people might be hurt if we try to apprehend them..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No we should use your approach Alistair...where all bad men get away with it because innocent people might be hurt if we try to apprehend them....unless they f*ck with 'merica.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No we should use your approach Alistair...where all bad men get away with it because innocent people might be hurt if we try to apprehend them..

So you can either fire multiple rounds into this guy or just leave him to it?

They are the only two options in your mind?

You're more intelligent than you make yourself sound trying to defend this crap.

Cops are there to protect the public..

Guy had a knife in a public place..what was he doing ..peeling potatoes..??

What weapon did that guy on the train have again ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Cops back home have a tough job and do it admirably...

Not like the fun time cops in this Country have..Barrel of laughs over here...

They only have to use firearms sparingly and can't even do that without screwing up...

Not bashing US here but the influx of guns into the projects and inner city neighbourhoods in America just after the civil rights bill was announced has been a major factor in the rise of gang culture which has resulted in the current attitude the cops have towards members of the AA community.

You add drugs to the guns that the CIA flooded AA communities with after the civil rights movement and you have vast swaths of AA communities basically in a state of perpetual war. Poverty, drugs , guns a heavy cocktail that has proven to destroy people and countries all over the world. Both the drugs and guns were never made in these communities they were shipped in and the rise of gang culture took root.

This would not have been tolerated in other communities and never has and its a policy we are seeing the results of in Syria today. I know most on here do not have faith in the most high but I believe that eventually when he wills the wicked of this world will get whats coming to them and your wealth, race, or fame will not be able to help you.

What member of the public was in immediate danger? The guy was staggering at at a snails pace surrounded by armed guards. He could have easily been apprehended without danger. It was an execution, stop defending it or bringing in irrelevant cases.

Scottrf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No we should use your approach Alistair...where all bad men get away with it because innocent people might be hurt if we try to apprehend them..

So you can either fire multiple rounds into this guy or just leave him to it?

They are the only two options in your mind?

You're more intelligent than you make yourself sound trying to defend this crap.

I don't think it's just his mentality. It seems to be the mentality of a minority of US based cops.

The problem is you can dig up so many of these instances where US Cops do these things without thinking and Truss would defend them.

Walter Scott
Sean Bell
Gilbert Flores
Michael Brown
Tamir Rice - He was 12 years old.

Scottrf wrote:Happened, 10 years ago.

When was that?

If the Brazillian at the tube station, whilst no excuse and still awful, I'd say there's a difference between 10 cops all with guns standing around a guy that's surrendering with his back to the wall on a quiet street with few other people around because you think he looks like a guy reported to have a knife and a guy (wrongly) identified as a suspected terrorist in the middle of a busy tube station running away from police and legging it over barriers.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Happened, 10 years ago.

When was that?

If the Brazillian at the tube station, whilst no excuse and still awful, I'd say there's a difference between 10 cops all with guns standing around a guy that's surrendering with his back to the wall on a quiet street with few other people around because you think he looks like a guy reported to have a knife and a guy (wrongly) identified as a suspected terrorist in the middle of a busy tube station running away from police and legging it over barriers.

It's the Menezes killing, so yes.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Happened, 10 years ago.

When was that?

If the Brazillian at the tube station, whilst no excuse and still awful, I'd say there's a difference between 10 cops all with guns standing around a guy that's surrendering with his back to the wall on a quiet street with few other people around because you think he looks like a guy reported to have a knife and a guy (wrongly) identified as a suspected terrorist in the middle of a busy tube station running away from police and legging it over barriers.

That's the incident, except he jumped no barriers, and wasn't running when he was shot.

Pr4wn wrote:Stop being an apologist for brutality, Truss.

A Taser would have worked just fine.

Spoiler:

UK police take down a knife-wielding attacker.

That is how it is done. The only difference between this and the US examples is attitutde & training.

Yup used his oyster card

I'd argue also it's about bravery and courage. Too easy to fire off a round (Or in Sean bell's case, 50) and claim lives were in danger.

Alistair wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No we should use your approach Alistair...where all bad men get away with it because innocent people might be hurt if we try to apprehend them..

So you can either fire multiple rounds into this guy or just leave him to it?

They are the only two options in your mind?

You're more intelligent than you make yourself sound trying to defend this crap.

I don't think it's just his mentality. It seems to be the mentality of a minority of US based cops.

The problem is you can dig up so many of these instances where US Cops do these things without thinking and Truss would defend them.

Walter Scott
Sean Bell
Gilbert Flores
Michael Brown
Tamir Rice - He was 12 years old.

Wow five people out of 320 million..

Yep we are all wrong us. .

Scottrf wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Happened, 10 years ago.

When was that?

If the Brazillian at the tube station, whilst no excuse and still awful, I'd say there's a difference between 10 cops all with guns standing around a guy that's surrendering with his back to the wall on a quiet street with few other people around because you think he looks like a guy reported to have a knife and a guy (wrongly) identified as a suspected terrorist in the middle of a busy tube station running away from police and legging it over barriers.

That's the incident, except he jumped no barriers, and wasn't running when he was shot.

Noted, just re-read up on. Would still say there are material differences, but it was a dark day for British policing, certainly.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Alistair wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No we should use your approach Alistair...where all bad men get away with it because innocent people might be hurt if we try to apprehend them..

So you can either fire multiple rounds into this guy or just leave him to it?

They are the only two options in your mind?

You're more intelligent than you make yourself sound trying to defend this crap.

I don't think it's just his mentality. It seems to be the mentality of a minority of US based cops.

The problem is you can dig up so many of these instances where US Cops do these things without thinking and Truss would defend them.

Walter Scott
Sean Bell
Gilbert Flores
Michael Brown
Tamir Rice - He was 12 years old.

Wow five people out of 320 million..

Yep we are all wrong us. .

Oh, so cause there's plenty more where that comes from it's ok?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Cops back home have a tough job and do it admirably...

Not like the fun time cops in this Country have..Barrel of laughs over here...

They only have to use firearms sparingly and can't even do that without screwing up...

Not bashing US here but the influx of guns into the projects and inner city neighbourhoods in America just after the civil rights bill was announced has been a major factor in the rise of gang culture which has resulted in the current attitude the cops have towards members of the AA community.

You add drugs to the guns that the CIA flooded AA communities with after the civil rights movement and you have vast swaths of AA communities basically in a state of perpetual war. Poverty, drugs , guns a heavy cocktail that has proven to destroy people and countries all over the world. Both the drugs and guns were never made in these communities they were shipped in and the rise of gang culture took root.

This would not have been tolerated in other communities and never has and its a policy we are seeing the results of in Syria today. I know most on here do not have faith in the most high but I believe that eventually when he wills the wicked of this world will get whats coming to them and your wealth, race, or fame will not be able to help you.

Heaven forbid anyone should take responsibility for his or her actions.

Sorry Truss but whilst some people may be Anti-US there does seem to be a bad problem with the Police and gun culture at the moment (wasn't there a shooting a few days okay and another 2 weeks back?)

My own view is that some of your police forces need a massive overhaul, especially those that are deemed to have a lot of racial incidences. The people need to have faith that the people charged with protecting them are protecting them. Yes it's pants that as it stands Good cops are being linked in with the bad cops (and lets be honest, there's more good than bad) but if reform gets you on a good standing again and helps weed out the kak then I think it should be done.

The gun culture is something else though and I honestly haven't got the first clue how to sort it now.

Also can we not use this as a lets bash Truss thread, it gets really old really fast and then everyone moans when he sticks up for himself. Plus you'll get a much better debate if you ask his opinion and discuss it properly.

Derbymanc wrote:
Also can we not use this as a lets bash Truss thread, it gets really old really fast and then everyone moans when he sticks up for himself. Plus you'll get a much better debate if you ask his opinion and discuss it properly.

I actually admire his thick skin, however, i've asked his opinion and to clarify comments and he prefers not to. I think he actually enjoys the attention.

Derbymanc wrote:Also can we not use this as a lets bash Truss thread

But it's so fun.

Ran into a bloke, American chap, a few weeks ago just after the Paris Attacks who told me that the USA could never have a Paris-esque situation because "We'd shoot back". While this isn't of the scale the Parisian attacks were, it does reinforce the reality that there's a reason why a large perce percentage of guns used in murder/robbery are stolen. After less than a millenia with the damned things the human mind still hasn't developed its instincts to "fight, flight or get a gun"

Scottrf wrote:What member of the public was in immediate danger? The guy was staggering at at a snails pace surrounded by armed guards. He could have easily been apprehended without danger. It was an execution, stop defending it or bringing in irrelevant cases.

Judgement call.....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:What member of the public was in immediate danger? The guy was staggering at at a snails pace surrounded by armed guards. He could have easily been apprehended without danger. It was an execution, stop defending it or bringing in irrelevant cases.

Judgement call.....

Oh come on, give it a rest with this knee-jerk defence of the indefensible, just because you share their nationality. U.S. gun laws are a joke and it would appear that U.S. police, who're armed, are increasingly not fit for purpose. By all means cane the U.K. police when they get it wrong but, as in so many things, you can't justify one lot of stupidity as OK just because of some other idiot.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:Stop being an apologist for brutality, Truss.

A Taser would have worked just fine.

Spoiler:

UK police take down a knife-wielding attacker.

That is how it is done.  The only difference between this and the US examples is attitutde & training.

Not being funny Toppy but you can't expect the yanks to do this without some sort of projectile. That's just un-American.

760,000 cops are incompetent because of a sprinkling of cases..

Okay..

Who said that?