Froch vs Pascal

Cracking fight. Two tough guys standing throwing bombs. This was the first I seen it in years

Anyone that hasn't seen it, give it a view.

I remember it on ITV very good fight

Yeah very good fight as I remember it started very fast but towards the latter part of the fight it simmered down but each could have gone before. Froch made a statement that night.

He did one two. No matter what people think of Froch, he is one of my fav fighters.

He brings excitement.

AdamT wrote:He did one two. No matter what people think of Froch, he is one of my fav fighters.

He brings excitement.

He did adam I think he was an honest fighter who never tried to be something he was not. He knew he was no pure boxer and he had obvious flaws but he played to his strengths and it took him very far. Ok his strengths were not enough against Ward but he out toughed everyone else. Thats why I think he dodged Degale.

Good post onetwo.

He probably knew at this stage of his career, Degale would of possibly coasted to a decision.

I think Froch deserves to go down as a British great. Even though he was never the established number 1 in his division,I still think he is Hall of Fame worthy. There are lesser men in it than Froch.

AdamT wrote:Good post onetwo.

He probably knew at this stage of his career, Degale would of possibly coasted to a decision.

I think Froch deserves to go down as a British great. Even though he was never the established number 1 in his division,I still think he is Hall of Fame worthy. There are lesser men in it than Froch.

Yeah I don't want to turn this into a Mayweather bashing thread but I agree Froch is a future HOFer.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

AdamT wrote:He did one two. No matter what people think of Froch, he is one of my fav fighters.

He brings excitement.

He did adam I think he was an honest fighter who never tried to be something he was not. He knew he was no pure boxer and he had obvious flaws but he played to his strengths and it took him very far. Ok his strengths were not enough against Ward but he out toughed everyone else. Thats why I think he dodged Degale.

Yep Froch played to his strengths, which were his great chin, and toughness and will to win.

All about opinion but I believe he would have KO'd or stopped Degale, Froch was relentless, when Degale wants he's usual little breather, Froch would have been all over him, Degale wouldn't have kept Froch out for 12 rounds.

I agree Nico, Degale would win rounds early on but he almost lost against Dirrell due to his lack of output in the second half of the fight and that was against another low output fighter, he'd eventually get marched down by Froch.

Maybe it just wasn't a gamble Froch was willing to take.

He was out of the ring a year. Perhaps he felt he was slightly on the slide. Definitely pick him at his best to beat Degale, for sure!

You have to retire eventually, there's always another up and comer to face.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You have to retire eventually, there's always another up and comer to face.

Froch has picked the right time to retire nothing to prove, and hopefully keeps his sensible head on and stays retired.

Spade a spade?

Froch should have made DeGale his baton fight. Would have much preferred Froch to fight DeGale win lose or draw.

Calzaghe should have made Froch his baton fight.

Neither did their baton fight...

It's like you stay in the game making a living until someone comes along you can't beat. Can't say I like it. Not very old school.

Let's be honest, neither he or Calzaghe achieved greatness. real bona fide greatness. Good yes, very good yes, but not real greatness.

Greatness for Calzaghe would have been rematching and beating Hopkins, then giving Carl a slap, or at least a helluva post prime fight.

Greatness for Carl would have been cutting DeGale to ribbons then destroying Golovkin.

Surely?

Don't think Carl had the motivation for the kind of camp required to face a Golovkin. He's the kind of fighter who doesn't do family during a camp, and Golovkin would certainly have needed that kind of commitment. If he believed he could get himself in the frame to fight GGG for a king's ransom in front of 80 000 people, he would have.

As for deGale, meh fight

Froch had his passing of the torch fight with Groves anyway, it wasn't until months after the rematch that Degale started to become a realistic option by which time he had his heart set on a big money showdown with Chavez.

Should have fought GGG...

I'd have put him with Calzaghe If he'd won that...

Still great warrior and will be missed.

Anyone know what Postol is like?

Never seen him but Roach seems quite sweet on his chances of upsetting Matthysse tonight, as is Postol's manager.

He looks quite a tidy boxer with a good reach but is hittable. Could be a close fight.

Postols odds have been shortening quite drastically as the fight comes in. Looks like he is getting backed at the bookies.

Well now I see what the ice man is all about. Brilliant fight.

Haven't seen it yet, but a fair few pundits had felt Danny Garcia was running from Postol. Seems like they may have had a point.

I suppose there are some who will now say Matthysse was overrated but he was a real champion who would fight everyone in his division. I much prefer that than these so called champions ducking and diving and moving divisions to get away from opponents.

Fight everyone and sooner or later, a fighter will run into a style that's bad for him. That's why the fighters like Matthysse shouldn't be given too much flak when they take a loss.

Postol, Crawford, Broner, Vargas, Cuenca, throw in Mikey Garcia and you've got a super six. Never seen Vargas or Cuenca mind but 140's got some good fights.

Was a good fight and shame Froch won


Regards

Steffan (A rugby world cup quarter finalist)

Steffan wrote:Was a good fight and shame Froch won


Regards

Steffan (A rugby world cup quarter finalist)

Congrats mate. Didn't know you played for Wales! What an achievement.

ShahenshahG wrote:

Steffan wrote:Was a good fight and shame Froch won


Regards

Steffan (A rugby world cup quarter finalist)

Congrats mate. Didn't know you played for Wales! What an achievement.

Aye. Keep it quiet but I'm Dan Biggar. Big game against the Aussies next week. Both teams undefeated like Joe Calzaghe. Can't say the same for Froch and Pascal sadly

Steffan wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

Steffan wrote:Was a good fight and shame Froch won


Regards

Steffan (A rugby world cup quarter finalist)

Congrats mate. Didn't know you played for Wales! What an achievement.

Aye. Keep it quiet but I'm Dan Biggar. Big game against the Aussies next week. Both teams undefeated like Joe Calzaghe. Can't say the same for Froch and Pascal sadly

You turned that on me rather cleverly

Well played

Steffan wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

Steffan wrote:Was a good fight and shame Froch won


Regards

Steffan (A rugby world cup quarter finalist)

Congrats mate. Didn't know you played for Wales! What an achievement.

Aye. Keep it quiet but I'm Dan Biggar. Big game against the Aussies next week. Both teams undefeated like Joe Calzaghe. Can't say the same for Froch and Pascal sadly

True Calzaghe retired unbeaten, Froch should have taken a leaf out of Joe's book, fought all his fights in Britain, and avoided travelling to the US to fight the best.

Froch slated Calzaghe about not fighting him and had numerous pops at him thus making him public enemy number one in Wales for daring to insult Prince Joe.

You wouldn't like my brother either, he thought Calzaghe was a cherry picking homer who lost to Hopkins, I thought he edged Hopkins out personally.

Nico the gman wrote:True Calzaghe retired unbeaten, Froch should have taken a leaf out of Joe's book, fought all his fights in Britain, and avoided travelling to the US to fight the best.

Calzaghe's top 3 victories:

Lacy (Manchester, England)
Kessler (Cardiff, Wales)
Hopkins (Las Vegas, USA)

Froch's top 3 victories:

Pascal (Nottingham, England)
Dirrell (Nottingham, England)
Bute (Nottingham, England)




Regards

Steffan wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:True Calzaghe retired unbeaten, Froch should have taken a leaf out of Joe's book, fought all his fights in Britain, and avoided travelling to the US to fight the best.

Calzaghe's top 3 victories:

Lacy (Manchester, England)
Kessler (Cardiff, Wales)
Hopkins (Las Vegas, USA)

Froch's top 3 victories:

Pascal (Nottingham, England)
Dirrell (Nottingham, England)
Bute (Nottingham, England)




Regards

Why stop at just top 3 victories........??

TopHat24/7 wrote:Why stop at just top 3 victories........??

3 victories is enough. Well it wont be enough for the England rugby team to get out of their pool even if they do beat Uruguay this weekend...

Haha good touche, but also a Shane Williams-esque side-step........

Steffan wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:True Calzaghe retired unbeaten, Froch should have taken a leaf out of Joe's book, fought all his fights in Britain, and avoided travelling to the US to fight the best.

Calzaghe's top 3 victories:

Lacy (Manchester, England)
Kessler (Cardiff, Wales)
Hopkins (Las Vegas, USA)

Froch's top 3 victories:

Pascal (Nottingham, England)
Dirrell (Nottingham, England)
Bute (Nottingham, England)




Regards

I never said Froch victories,he went to the US, and fought the best in the division Mr Ward, also defended his title abroad against Taylor, the man who beat Hopkins and fought Kessler abroad as well not frightened to go into the lions den was Carl.

Mind you Joe went to the US and put prime Roy Jones in his place in his last fight.

Nico the gman wrote:

Steffan wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

Steffan wrote:Was a good fight and shame Froch won


Regards

Steffan (A rugby world cup quarter finalist)

Congrats mate. Didn't know you played for Wales! What an achievement.

Aye. Keep it quiet but I'm Dan Biggar. Big game against the Aussies next week. Both teams undefeated like Joe Calzaghe. Can't say the same for Froch and Pascal sadly

True Calzaghe retired unbeaten, Froch should have taken a leaf out of Joe's book, fought all his fights in Britain, and avoided travelling to the US to fight the best.

Froch slated Calzaghe about not fighting him and had numerous pops at him thus making him public enemy number one in Wales for daring to insult Prince Joe.

You wouldn't like my brother either, he thought Calzaghe was a cherry picking homer who lost to Hopkins, I thought he edged Hopkins out personally.

Why should a fighter fight in another country? Don't see this as a slight on anyone's greatness, a fighter could fight every fight in his garden if he gets enough fans there and keeps winning.

Froch wouldn't have stayed unbeaten as he was in the super six and Ward would beat him every time they fought.

It's obvious to compare the two fighters but the main difference is Froch did as well as he could have over his career with the ability he had. Calzaghe could possibly have achieved more than he did with his talent yet still surpassed Froch's achievements.

A ring is a ring at the end of the day, so the hometown stuff doesn't carry too much with me. However, there are gaps and questions in Calzaghe's CV I'd have liked to have seen filled. For whatever reason, some big fights never materialised. I'm not interested in pointing fingers, just wished they'd happened. For me, he could have fought and lost to RJJ and his standing would be no lower.

Froch always showed real determination to go out and find himself a fight, even though I suppose he had to. I've got a huge amount of respect for Froch because while Calzaghe was always destined for greatness I feel Froch forced himself to be great (I'm using great as an adjective here, before we get into a 'what makes a great' debate). I think I first saw Froch as a British champion against Reid and back then I'd have never guessed he'd amass the CV he has with all the titles and huge fights.

There you go, that's me. Unlikely opinion from a Welshman (but I still think had they fought Calzaghe beats him 10/10) .

Dipper Brown wrote:A ring is a ring at the end of the day, so the hometown stuff doesn't carry too much with me. However, there are gaps and questions in Calzaghe's CV I'd have liked to have seen filled. For whatever reason, some big fights never materialised. I'm not interested in pointing fingers, just wished they'd happened. For me, he could have fought and lost to RJJ and his standing would be no lower.

Do find this point a little strange.

RJJ fought for the light heavy title Nov '96 so was no longer in his weight class. At around the same time (May '96) Calzaghe was fighting at Star Leisure Centre in Cardiff.

It was in November '97 that Calzaghe beat Eubank for the Super Middle Title.

Calzaghe unified the division in 2007 (Otke still fighting until '04).

Calzaghe would have had to go up in weight to fight RJJ, really this is only viable after he had unified the division (otherwise he would be battered for not unifying) so had he won the title in '04 it could have happened then. He would have needed to unify and then move up in weight rather than having a couple of lucrative fights as 'the' man at the weight.

In '04 RJJ was light heavy champion (three titles) and just going for a unification fight with Tarver (which he lost) he then lost a further 2 fights. RJJ then had four wins before fighting Calzaghe.

For me the above shows they never really could have fought before they did, unfortunate that we had two greats near the same weight but they weren't actually at the same weight when a fight would have been realistic.

huw wrote:

Dipper Brown wrote:A ring is a ring at the end of the day, so the hometown stuff doesn't carry too much with me. However, there are gaps and questions in Calzaghe's CV I'd have liked to have seen filled. For whatever reason, some big fights never materialised. I'm not interested in pointing fingers, just wished they'd happened. For me, he could have fought and lost to RJJ and his standing would be no lower.

Do find this point a little strange.

RJJ fought for the light heavy title Nov '96 so was no longer in his weight class. At around the same time (May '96) Calzaghe was fighting at Star Leisure Centre in Cardiff.

It was in November '97 that Calzaghe beat Eubank for the Super Middle Title.

Calzaghe unified the division in 2007 (Otke still fighting until '04).

So basically you're giving him a pass for taking 10 YEARS to unify a division by fighting a load of dross. Great.

[quote="TopHat24/7"][quote="huw"][quote="Dipper Brown"]A ring is a ring at the end of the day, so the hometown stuff doesn't carry too much with me. However, there are gaps and questions in Calzaghe's CV I'd have liked to have seen filled. For whatever reason, some big fights never materialised. I'm not interested in pointing fingers, just wished they'd happened. For me, he could have fought and lost to RJJ and his standing would be no lower.
[/quote]

Do find this point a little strange.

RJJ fought for the light heavy title Nov '96 so was no longer in his weight class. At around the same time (May '96) Calzaghe was fighting at Star Leisure Centre in Cardiff.

It was in November '97 that Calzaghe beat Eubank for the Super Middle Title.

Calzaghe unified the division in 2007 (Otke still fighting until '04).

[/quote]

So basically you're giving him a pass for taking 10 YEARS to unify a division by fighting a load of dross. Great.[/quote]

Yes, Otke was a champion as well until '04 and it is widely reported that he wouldn't fight Joe. So best case it would have taken him 8 years because of circumstance.

Unifying a division would be enough for me to consider him a great regardless of him moving up in weight to fight RJJ and Hopkins.

There is also a different spin I could put back to you, he was the champion for 10 years, he beat everyone that was put in front of him. Surely this makes him one of the best ever.

Lacy, Eubank, Hopkins, Kessler and Mitchell with longevity...were enough to guarantee his status as a great.............

Jones jr wasn't much of a win..

Nobody gave a sh*t about Ottke or respected him as a 'champ'. Wouldn't have done JC any harm whatsoever to not fight him and leave that title hanging.

Bit like how not many people really knock RJJ for Dariusz M.


10 years of fighting guff. If you think 10 years of fighting Tocker Pudwills makes you a great then fair play to you, but I doubt many else (non-Welsh) do.....

For the record I'd have JC beating Froch 7/10 and their respective wins against Kessler are the difference (paper thin) between them.

Nobody holds Ottke against Calzaghe. He was a rubbish homer.

The way I see it, Froch was an over achiever. Circumstances dictated that Calzaghe doesn't have the most impressive names on his CV. Whose fault that is is another conversation altogether.

Don't know who I'd rank higher. Doesn't really matter.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Nobody gave a sh*t about Ottke or respected him as a 'champ'. Wouldn't have done JC any harm whatsoever to not fight him and leave that title hanging.

Bit like how not many people really knock RJJ for Dariusz M.


10 years of fighting guff.  If you think 10 years of fighting Tocker Pudwills makes you a great then fair play to you, but I doubt many else (non-Welsh) do.....

If he fought Tocker Pudwill every 3 months for 10 years nobody would consider him great.

As a Welshman my opinion is probably null and void on this subject but I would have him as a top 5 Brit. This should in my mind qualify him for greatness, where would you have him in a P4P Brit's list and are any Brits greats?

Dipper Brown wrote:Nobody holds Ottke against Calzaghe. He was a rubbish homer.

The way I see it, Froch was an over achiever. Circumstances dictated that Calzaghe doesn't have the most impressive names on his CV. Whose fault that is is another conversation altogether.

Don't know who I'd rank higher. Doesn't really matter.

As far as I'm aware Ottke wasn't overly keen to face Calzaghe in the UK as he was making a decent living in Germany sometimes with the help of the judges, and although I'm no fan of the guy he did have a couple of decent wins which were genuine wins. There was also talk of a possability of Joe moving up to fight DM as both were wbo champs and probably would have been a reasonably easy fight to make without Joe having to put his title on the line, but nothing came of it.

Joe does have some decent wins on his SMW champion cv and yes he could probably have pushed for more, but his boss was paying him well to stay in the UK and fight whoever. Also Hopkins at one stage agreed to come to the UK to fight him before he himself moved to LHW but then priced himself out of the fight fight when he demanded almost double, cant blame Joe or Warren for that although I'm sure many would like to.

huw wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Nobody gave a sh*t about Ottke or respected him as a 'champ'. Wouldn't have done JC any harm whatsoever to not fight him and leave that title hanging.

Bit like how not many people really knock RJJ for Dariusz M.


10 years of fighting guff.  If you think 10 years of fighting Tocker Pudwills makes you a great then fair play to you, but I doubt many else (non-Welsh) do.....

If he fought Tocker Pudwill every 3 months for 10 years nobody would consider him great.

As a Welshman my opinion is probably null and void on this subject but I would have him as a top 5 Brit. This should in my mind qualify him for greatness, where would you have him in a P4P Brit's list and are any Brits greats?

Well, on top of Tocker we also had:

Sobot
Ferreya
Thornberry
Starie
Sheika
McIntyre
Brewer
Jimenez
Mkrtchyan
Salem
Ashira

Hot list.......

That said, I would have him a top 5 Brit as well. Though another Welshman probably tops the list (Jimmy Wilde).

AdamT wrote:Cracking fight. Two tough guys standing throwing bombs. This was the first I seen it in years

Anyone that hasn't seen it, give it a view.

Certainly was a great fight, probably the best fight I saw either of them in entertainment wise.

Funny how this thread has turned into Calzaghe/Calzaghe bashing thread

sohotnot wrote:Funny how this thread has turned into Calzaghe/Calzaghe bashing thread    

It hasn't really. Just TopHat and his hatred of all things Welsh

Needless to say little ol' Wales victory over potential host world champions England in his home city of Laaaandaaaan has put a bit of fuel on his fire recently...

Steffan wrote:

sohotnot wrote:Funny how this thread has turned into Calzaghe/Calzaghe bashing thread    

It hasn't really. Just TopHat and his hatred of all things Welsh

Needless to say little ol' Wales victory over potential host world champions England in his home city of Laaaandaaaan has put a bit of fuel on his fire recently...

Said JC was a top 5 Brit ATG and the greatest British fighter ever was a Welshman.

Yeh, really hating on Wales......

TopHat24/7 wrote:

huw wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Nobody gave a sh*t about Ottke or respected him as a 'champ'. Wouldn't have done JC any harm whatsoever to not fight him and leave that title hanging.

Bit like how not many people really knock RJJ for Dariusz M.


10 years of fighting guff.  If you think 10 years of fighting Tocker Pudwills makes you a great then fair play to you, but I doubt many else (non-Welsh) do.....

If he fought Tocker Pudwill every 3 months for 10 years nobody would consider him great.

As a Welshman my opinion is probably null and void on this subject but I would have him as a top 5 Brit. This should in my mind qualify him for greatness, where would you have him in a P4P Brit's list and are any Brits greats?

Well, on top of Tocker we also had:

Sobot
Ferreya
Thornberry
Starie
Sheika
McIntyre
Brewer
Jimenez
Mkrtchyan
Salem
Ashira

Hot list.......

That said, I would have him a top 5 Brit as well.  Though another Welshman probably tops the list (Jimmy Wilde).

So he is a great but could've been better? Pretty much the same opinion on him then.

TopHat...how come you rate him as a top 5 Brit then when you have said that 10 years of fighting Tocker Pudwills does not make Calzaghe great (unless you are Welsh)

I'm confused at this 'Calzaghe fought dross and dross only but he's still a top 5 all time great Brit' stance

huw wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

huw wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Nobody gave a sh*t about Ottke or respected him as a 'champ'. Wouldn't have done JC any harm whatsoever to not fight him and leave that title hanging.

Bit like how not many people really knock RJJ for Dariusz M.


10 years of fighting guff.  If you think 10 years of fighting Tocker Pudwills makes you a great then fair play to you, but I doubt many else (non-Welsh) do.....

If he fought Tocker Pudwill every 3 months for 10 years nobody would consider him great.

As a Welshman my opinion is probably null and void on this subject but I would have him as a top 5 Brit. This should in my mind qualify him for greatness, where would you have him in a P4P Brit's list and are any Brits greats?

Well, on top of Tocker we also had:

Sobot
Ferreya
Thornberry
Starie
Sheika
McIntyre
Brewer
Jimenez
Mkrtchyan
Salem
Ashira

Hot list.......

That said, I would have him a top 5 Brit as well.  Though another Welshman probably tops the list (Jimmy Wilde).

So he is a great but could've been better? Pretty much the same opinion on him then.

Same here.

Steffan wrote:TopHat...how come you rate him as a top 5 Brit then when you have said that 10 years of fighting Tocker Pudwills does not make Calzaghe great (unless you are Welsh)

I'm confused at this 'Calzaghe fought dross and dross only but he's still a top 5 all time great Brit' stance

No question Calzaghe is a British great who would give any fighter problems regardless of where they fought, but Joe should have gone to the US long before he did that's my only criticism.

What gets on my nerves Steffan is your constant berating of Froch because he had the audacity to call Calzaghe out, and make a few backhanded jibes about Prince Joe, love Froch or hate him (which I know you hate for reasons given) he was a world class fighter who ducked nobody.

With regards to the rugby I can't stand the game, totally bores me, stop, start, stop, start,so Wales beating England or whoever wins the world cup means Jack all to me.