We Go Again! The Premier League thread

[Guest]

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that's the golden boot wrapped up

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Can certainly see why Monk is in trouble based off today. Not only was their style completely unambitious, he took off Montero/Sigurdsson/Shelvey with his subs. I'd argue they're Swansea's 3 best attacking players. Strange subs

Olly, your sub - not going to attempt to spell his name - did well for the goal. Good unselfish headed assist. I've always reckoned you'll be ok come May but you needed that win today.

Mbokani was very good when he came on - held the ball up well which Jerome didn't do. And yes with Chelsea/arsenal on the horizon a very important three points.

I still believe all three promoted sides will survive, but Bournemouth are worrying me now

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I do think it a tad funny that fans who cried murder when Chelsea sacked managers quickly are now saying Jose should go. I don't think Chelsea will get top four, but that's with or without Jose. 

Better for Chelsea now. If they won't sack him for his behaviour then they shouldn't do it on results. Reassess come season's end, but if they are gonna go and spend big then Jose can do that and won't be scared of overhauls. He has the force of personality and the history to lure players without Champs League, moreso than many anyway.

There's also a part of me that doesn't want stroppy players at Chelsea to escape blame. They have done it before and should be culled rather than bowed down to.

I can understand not sacking him for behaviour, you know what you get with Mourinho, but I definitely think his behaviour is only acceptable because of his success. This form isn't poor, it's absolutely atrocious, it's relegation form, they're not getting top four, they require a big change to even get top half at this rate. I was on the side that Mourinho probably should keep his job a couple of weeks ago, but results keep getting worse. Three losses in the league in a row now, only just out of the relegation spots, players who previously looked world class look genuinely mediocre, one stadium ban and another suspended one in the wait, being personally sued by a former staff member, conspiracy theories, taking his staff out onto the pitch so he could slag off referees without getting in trouble, it's pathetic and anybody else but Mourinho would have been sacked by now. I think it has come to the point where I'm not sure he can bring this back now, he does seem to have totally lost it.

I do agree that the players have to hold a hell of a lot of the responsibility, but I think Mourinho is the key to Chelsea's struggles this season, I think it was noticeable from the beginning with his treatment of Eva Caneiro being totally mad. I don't know whether he has lost the players, it's hard to tell whether Mourinho is putting up a front, but if he is even 50% in private with his players of how he acts in public then I'm not surprised that they're not motivated to play for him.

Funny, I don't think you'll see Roman going "well, when you hire Jose you get Jose..." about his behaviour. If you're not getting rid over the attack on the official at West Ham or the Eva stuff then you're not getting rid because they're 6 points behind Liverpool. 

On the pitch, I don't think you sack a manager in November who cantered to the title last year. They'll be accepting top four is likely gone, but right now there is no one available with the credentials of their current manager. Equally, they probably won't get it with or without Jose so why take the blot on the copybook of firing someone their fans love. 

The club and everyone outside it do not see Chelsea as a relegation candidate right now, regardless of that position. Until it is somewhat realistic to say so then no one will be worrying. 

Give him till mid December, then decide if they want to spend in January. If they do, then decide if they want Jose fronting that spending. 

They were ok against us, seemingly overwhelmed by their own situation against Liverpool and lost away at Stoke. In between those they have secured their position in their Champs League group. It isn't the end of the world.

[Crimey]

I do think it a tad funny that fans who cried murder when Chelsea sacked managers quickly are now saying Jose should go. I don't think Chelsea will get top four, but that's with or without Jose. 

Better for Chelsea now. If they won't sack him for his behaviour then they shouldn't do it on results. Reassess come season's end, but if they are gonna go and spend big then Jose can do that and won't be scared of overhauls. He has the force of personality and the history to lure players without Champs League, moreso than many anyway.

There's also a part of me that doesn't want stroppy players at Chelsea to escape blame. They have done it before and should be culled rather than bowed down to.

I can understand not sacking him for behaviour, you know what you get with Mourinho, but I definitely think his behaviour is only acceptable because of his success. This form isn't poor, it's absolutely atrocious, it's relegation form, they're not getting top four, they require a big change to even get top half at this rate. I was on the side that Mourinho probably should keep his job a couple of weeks ago, but results keep getting worse. Three losses in the league in a row now, only just out of the relegation spots, players who previously looked world class look genuinely mediocre, one stadium ban and another suspended one in the wait, being personally sued by a former staff member, conspiracy theories, taking his staff out onto the pitch so he could slag off referees without getting in trouble, it's pathetic and anybody else but Mourinho would have been sacked by now. I think it has come to the point where I'm not sure he can bring this back now, he does seem to have totally lost it.

I do agree that the players have to hold a hell of a lot of the responsibility, but I think Mourinho is the key to Chelsea's struggles this season, I think it was noticeable from the beginning with his treatment of Eva Caneiro being totally mad. I don't know whether he has lost the players, it's hard to tell whether Mourinho is putting up a front, but if he is even 50% in private with his players of how he acts in public then I'm not surprised that they're not motivated to play for him.

Funny, I don't think you'll see Roman going "well, when you hire Jose you get Jose..." about his behaviour. If you're not getting rid over the attack on the official at West Ham or the Eva stuff then you're not getting rid because they're 6 points behind Liverpool. 

On the pitch, I don't think you sack a manager in November who cantered to the title last year. They'll be accepting top four is likely gone, but right now there is no one available with the credentials of their current manager. Equally, they probably won't get it with or without Jose so why take the blot on the copybook of firing someone their fans love. 

The club and everyone outside it do not see Chelsea as a relegation candidate right now, regardless of that position. Until it is somewhat realistic to say so then no one will be worrying. 

Give him till mid December, then decide if they want to spend in January. If they do, then decide if they want Jose fronting that spending. 

They were ok against us, seemingly overwhelmed by their own situation against Liverpool and lost away at Stoke. In between those they have secured their position in their Champs League group. It isn't the end of the world.

I just totally disagree with that position, I think the behaviour was never going to get him sacked and very rarely does get managers sacked, so long as the results are good. Without wanting to resort to cliche, football is a results business and right now Mourinho's results are beyond poor, they're ridiculously awful. They're the worse they've had in a Premier League era and the fact that their performances aren't resulting in wins is one of the most worrying parts. If the sign of champions is playing poorly but still winning, what is the sign of a team that plays well but still loses? 

I also cannot believe that Chelsea when signing Mourinho weren't expecting him to be critical of referees and generally being a pain in the media. At Madrid he was exactly the same, he poked an assistant manager in the eye for god's sake! They knew what they were getting and I think they were accepting of it because Mourinho brings results and last year seemed proof of this, but it's been a total implosion this year. 

I do get your point that whether they sack Mourinho or not they're not getting top four and that they probably won't be relegated so stick with him, but at the moment it really doesn't look like they're going to recover without some kind of big changes and I'm not sure Mourinho has the clear mind to be able to make those changes effectively, which means the only thing that can change is Mourinho. If he hasn't already lost the dressing room, I'm sure he's not far from losing them. Of his original run only Terry remains, there is no Ashley Cole, Petr Cech, Frank Lampard, Didier Drogba, those players that he relied on, the players that really believed in him have gone and the players that remained, whilst they were successful last year, they might not buy so readily into Mourinho and I think if you lose the players, it's gone, unrecoverable. 

I also comparing them to Liverpool who did sack their manager is not exactly the best comparison.

[guildfordbat]

Can certainly see why Monk is in trouble based off today. Not only was their style completely unambitious, he took off Montero/Sigurdsson/Shelvey with his subs. I'd argue they're Swansea's 3 best attacking players. Strange subs

Olly, your sub - not going to attempt to spell his name - did well for the goal. Good unselfish headed assist. I've always reckoned you'll be ok come May but you needed that win today.

Mbokani was very good when he came on - held the ball up well which Jerome didn't do. And yes with Chelsea/arsenal on the horizon a very important three points.

I still believe all three promoted sides will survive, but Bournemouth are worrying me now

Olly - as you probably know, I've never had confidence in Bournemouth's ability to survive. Hope I'm wrong - I like Eddie Howe. He comes across as a decent guy who talks honestly and with good sense. However, most of us said the same about Sean Dyche and that didn't save Burnley from the drop.

I also think Watford will get sucked in. Admittedly they've done better than I expected to date but I don't see them having sufficient talent and experience or getting enough goals to last the course.

Suppose the next transfer window could change things for several clubs so still fairly early days but they're the ones I currently most fear for.

[westisbest]

Think Norwich will do best out of the promoted sides.

Bournemouth struggling with their injuries, think they will fade quite fast.
Watford, don't think they will have enough to last the pace.

Not really in a position to be talking about teams struggling, when we are rock bottom though.

[westisbest]

Least Gabby and Westwood, Richardson dropped.

Amavi back in. Good to see Gil start.

Ayew up front.

Lets hope we give it a good go today.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Liverpool sacked their manager based on more than this season. Liverpool also sacked their manager because Klopp was available, I honestly don't think Brendan goes if Klopp is in work or unattainable. I'm not so sure Brendan's sacking was "fair" but I agreed with it because they could get Klopp. Jose has the fact he won the title last season to support him. Also, Liverpool are resurgent, apparently, so you'd think they'd have flown away from turmoil based Stamford Bridge.

Saying that, it shows nothing but the fickle nature of fans. Something to moan about. Results aren't good enough? Sack him. Sack managers? Chairmen are too trigger happy.

I would agree they expect less than perfect manners with Jose, but I don't think they are completely blind eye. Your point about them accepting behaviour when they're winning is kind of along my lines, except I think the behaviour carrying on like this during defeats is probably more annoying than the defeats. The worst thing Jose has done this season has been to bring Chelsea into disrepute. They likely have some sympathy with Jose at the moment because of how stressful his personal life has been, something weirdly ignored by the media even though they know about it. Headlines about Jose "showing the strain" or "losing the plot" seem to completely ignore the fact he has been flying home to see his father regularly who was in critical condition.

Anyway, on the football side, it is that behaviour that is likely to mean he gets less grace period for results. If they have seemingly let him behave at his worst whilst losing games then I don't think they'll suddenly sack him now.

Furthermore, I don't think you can say "perform well and don't win, that must be bad" because it isn't. One - It isn't true as they havent been performing well as such, but just not relegation team poor and two - fans will accept signs of positivity in defeat. I would expect them, even as this Chelsea, to win 4 of their next 7. Not great, but slow improvement.

Equally, if you're accepting they won't make top four with a new manager, then why jump now? They have a manager who has proven he can spend big on new players to win a league, has won a league with this group anyway and has the balls to get rid of bad influences. I don't think he'll be scared of selling Hazard abroad if he is seen as a negative character, and he definitely has the reputation that would attract players to a club outside of the Champions League.

And all the losing the dressing room stuff. Its all pontificating about stuff no one knows about. I think he has probably clashed with players, but if he wants rid of them then he'll do it. He isn't a weak personality and he will strip the club of players he doesnt need. I think the likes of Terry, Ivanovic, Cahill and Mikel will stand by him, and they are probably the biggest forces in that dressing room.

I honestly don't see a better option than keeping Mourinho as things stand.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Think Norwich will do best out of the promoted sides.

Bournemouth struggling with their injuries, think they will fade quite fast.
Watford, don't think they will have enough to last the pace.

Not really in a position to be talking about teams struggling, when we are rock bottom though.

Watford are definitely the best of the promoted sides. I think the bottom four could well be Villa, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Norwich, but I am only 100% on Bournemouth going down. West Brom will never be too far away.

[guildfordbat]

...

I honestly don't see a better option than keeping Mourinho as things stand.

Dolph - that's a good post and bottom line today although I doubt that things will stand as they are for long. In particular, the media won't just let the situation tick over. A couple more defeats and it'll be ''Crisis at the Bridge'' like never before over every tabloid, etc. The key thing then would be Mourinho's reactions - that just might be his undoing. As we know, he doesn't do ''sensible and graceful'' in defeat a la Eddie Howe. That might not mean there's a better option for Chelsea but it might make a change almost inevitable.

There again, a couple of wins on the bounce and the media's attention will turn elsewhere with Jose heading back towards his smug, contented worst.

Watch this space.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

This game has been beyond woeful

[westisbest]

Great point for us, don't care how we played.
Massive result.

Hopefully this can kick start our season now.

[Duty281]

Arsenal are going to win the league by about ten points this season.

[Hero]

They should do, though knowing Arsenal they won't.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

IT'S THE HURRIKANE

[Hero]

One season wonder?

[NickisBHAFC]

Tottenham have been outstanding so far.

I love Harry Kane, let the haters hate! One season wonder? Hahahahaha

[Duty281]

Is the Harry Kane hype back on, courtesy of one goal?

O......K.

[Guest]

Arsenal flat as a pancake

1-1 Coutinho

[MIG]

Is the Harry Kane hype back on, courtesy of one goal?

O......K.

Hattrick last week ......

[Duty281]

Is the Harry Kane hype back on, courtesy of one goal?

O......K.

Hattrick last week ......

Ah yes, 6 goals in the last 4 games. My interest in football has waned substantially; I must have missed that.

[Guest]

To be fair playing Bournemouh at the minute drastically improves anybodies scoring records.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Dat Kane/Vardy duo to fire us to Euro glory duty - get aboard the bandwagon!

[Dolphin Ziggler]

First game for a long time Kane has been able to control the ball in build up, but I've been impressed with his attitude to scoring, especially the power in his shots. Speaks of a striker who understands how to go simple to get back to form

[Guest]

Giroud is awful

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Kyle Walker left with two men to mark. Marks neither and Gibbs scores

[Guest]

Spurs not ruthless enough, will prob lose this 2-1 now

[guildfordbat]

Kyle Walker left with two men to mark. Marks neither and Gibbs scores

Agree with Neville that Lloris should have stood up and done better. Poor goal to concede.

[Duty281]

Excellent win by Palace today. Zaha was superb.

[Duty281]

Dat Kane/Vardy duo to fire us to Euro glory duty - get aboard the bandwagon!

Yes! 4-3-3, with Kane-Vardy-Carroll leading the charge. No stopping England with a front-line so formidable.

[Hammersmith harrier]

That weekend couldn't have gone much better for us, beating WBA comfortably with City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool and Chelsea all dropping points, have a feeling our defence will get us very close to the title.

[Hero]

If anyone a year ago would say a defence spearheaded by Chris Smalling would be the best in the Premier League they'd be laughed at.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Best defence or team with no ambition that is set up scared of conceding?

[Hero]

Best defence or team with no ambition that is set up scared of conceding?

Both?

[GSC]

Smalling is very good, but there's probably more of Dolphs point in that record.

[hampo17]

Palace are such a bogey team for us at the moment, controlled the game and should have had it put to bed long before they got their second goal.

[Guest]

United defence ain't great, agree with Dolph, they set up with no ambition & the primary aim each game is a clean sheet. Clean sheets vs Man City, who showed no ambition either without Silva/Aguero, an average M'Boro side, Palace, who dominated, a clean sheet vs a woeful travelling CSKA & a clean sheet vs us, who are very average, aided by Saido having a monumental foul up from five yards with a header. Whenever United come up against decent quality, they're exposed, as Southampton, Swansea & Arsenal showed. I think HH saying that United's defence will probably take them close to the title, says everything about how poor the PL has become offensively & teams just aren't ruthless enough, as Spurs showed today.

[NickisBHAFC]

Dele Alli ran the show today, he is going to be a superstar.

Fair play to Tottenham really bringing through some good young ENGLISH players.

[Hero]

To keep clean sheets in 8 out of 12 games in the Premier League even if the philosophy is a possession based one is still no mean feat and some credit has to go to the defenders for that.
Why is it always on here that the ineptitude of others rather than the ability of some is the answer? There's never a 'yes they're doing well' but always a 'the others are doing worse' mentality.

[hampo17]

Just the way it is with some fans Rich, United could smash their next opponents 4-0 and some would say so and so were rubbish. Same with all teams.

[Guest]

Dele Alli ran the show today, he is going to be a superstar.

Fair play to Tottenham really bringing through some good young ENGLISH players.

I wouldn't say ran the show, played well, but as ever, the hype will be over the top, given he's English. I imagine he will be the next savour of English football, after Wilshere, Sterling & Barkley.

In reality, the praise should go to Sporting Lisbon, who made Eric Dier & MK Dons developed Alli. Spurs just signed them.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'm gonna call you both out on that, Hero and Paul, cos its nonsense. Firstly, Mr Hudson (loved your stuff with Jay Z btw) you have quite the habit of doing it yourself!

Moreover, I do think it is pertinent to discuss United's system in relation to their defence. You cannot excuse your woes in front of goal by talking about the style of play but then just pat yourself on the back for keeping clean sheets. I doubt you give Pulis such credit and coming from Allardyce to Bilic I can happily talk of the pleasures of not protecting the clean sheet and respecting the point.

All things considered, I think a little ambition shown in some of these matches and Manchester United would be top and their fans wouldn't be bored. They even managed to get a 0-0 draw with Palace, a team who don't draw.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Dele Alli ran the show today, he is going to be a superstar.

Fair play to Tottenham really bringing through some good young ENGLISH players.

I wouldn't say ran the show, played well, but as ever, the hype will be over the top, given he's English. I imagine he will be the next savour of English football, after Wilshere, Sterling & Barkley.

In reality, the praise should go to Sporting Lisbon, who made Eric Dier & MK Dons developed Alli. Spurs just signed them.

I don't like Spurs, but credit where its due, a lot of clubs fear young players. I've been impressed by both Dier and Alli, and certainly prefer Alli to Mason's brand of huff and puff.

They should have won today, and look best bet for the side to take Chelsea's place in the top four. What will hold them back is that little bit of of a struggle they have to kill off teams, and that sometimes I feel like they focus so much on the hard work and bluster that they actually forget to do the simple bit that wins games; scoring goals.

[hampo17]

I don't think it's untrue to say some fans prefer to say how poorly a team is playing, rather than how well one is playing Chris. See it on beer and social media all the time.

[Hero]

Would I like Utd to be more attacking, have I bemoaned their current style of play?
Yes, I'm used to a Utd that's played attractive, attacking football.
But I still can give credit to their defence for how they've rose to this challenge, this is a defence that two years ago was torn apart with the losses of Rio, Vidic and Evra, what remained was regarded as mediocre, that brought in a number of defenders that were either unproven or not heavily rated, and that everything was due to a certain DDG.
I'll criticise other teams where it's due but I'll also give praise, jeez I've even given it to Liverpool in the past few weeks (mainly due to my love for the Normal One).

[GSC]

A few years ago, Chelsea had a fantastic defense playing Terry because the midfield sat so deep that season he was never exposed vs pace or movement. Flip side is Chelsea were useless going forwards and the attacking players were isolated. United may be doing with a different style but its having the same effects.

[Guest]

Without a proven striker, Arsenal will not challenge for the title and Liverpool will not push for top four. However, seems LFC have begun to consider life with Sturridge by signing "in principle" some kid from South America in January. Certainly a step in the right direction but I fear it may be too late if he doesn't come in 'til January to make enough of an impact. Think were already banking on the possibility that everyone else has an absolute mare and falls away spectacularly in the New Year.

[compelling and rich]

isnt the saying that new managers should work from the back and work forwards. lvg has sorted our defence out we just need to work on going forward now. dropping rooney would be the start but doubt hes got the balls for that.

think schneiderlin has been a big boost to the defensive side that goes unnoticed, he give so much protection to the back four, also noticeable that southampton of recent years had a decent defensive record that has waned since he's left

[Guest]

You mean Clyne, Shaw & Forster are no longer playing for Southampton, not putting their defensive record, solely to do with Morgan.

[compelling and rich]

where did i say it was soley down to him? dont forget lovren

[Hammersmith harrier]

Putting our defensive stability down to the system does our defenders a great disservice especially Smalling who has been superb. It seems that seem unable to accept that they were wrong about him and his subsequent form this season can't be down to the fact he's a very good defender.

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