Will Federer & Nadal ever play again?

Nadal consistently misses his appointments, and now in Shanghai Federer blows out at the first opportunity.

I think they'll have to fiddle the draw at the O2 to get them in the same group.

Part of me fears the carnage that would ensue on here, part of me wants to see that carnage!

Apparently they are both nominated for the Sportsmanship Award this year, so at least they are competing in something?

There both playing IPTL, aren't they?

When was the last time they played each other?

aus sf '14?

Federer, Djokovic and Nadal could all be in the same group at WTF.

Murray, Ferrer, Berdych, Wawrinka - Group A
Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Nishikori - Group B.

Very

Gasquet/Tsonga to replace Nishikori after the first Nishikori match.

Haven't we seen enough of them playing each other already?

Perhaps, in Basel 2015, if both of them can get to the Final.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/scores/current/basel/328/draws

On the same subject, will Federer get to play Ferrer for the 17th time? As many know, the record winning sequence between players stands at 16; and Federer has it twice (with Ferrer and Youzhny). With the Colonel ever less likely to make the business end of events the best chance for a record-breaking 17th successive seems to be little Daveed being in the same group at the O2.

Of course, he might beat him; "nobody beats David Ferrer 17 times in a row...."

As a Federer fan I am frustrated that Federer kept running into Nadal when he wasn't at his best, in 2008 they played 4 times when Federer had dipped from previous years and was losing to Mardy Fish, Stepanek and others, from mid 2009 Rafa was struggling but he didn't play Federer, in 2011 Federer was a step below Rafa and Novak, he ran into him 4 times, one of which Federer was awesome indoors of cour

2012 Federer finds some form and manages to beat Rafa, Rafa then again gets injured midway through the season when Federer is now works number 1 and Wimbledon Champion so they don't play again.

2013, Federer had his worst season since 2002, played Rafa 4 times in a row and then once at the start of the year. Nadal was in the form of his life.

2014 Federer has a resurgence then Rafa gets injured in the second half  of the season so they don't play.

2015 Rafa seriously dips off and Federer is making slam and masters finals constantly....doesn't play Rafa once.

When Federer dips he still limps to semi finals an Finals where he would then be a lamb to the slaughter, when Rafa is off he is doesnt quite do the same.

It's one aspect of their games that gets overlooked. That being said I'm not saying it's the only reason  Rafa beats Federer as he beat him in 05 06 and 07 as well when Fed was awesome, I just think they are rarely playing well at the same time! But more often than not when Rafa is playing well he gets Roger but when Roger is playing well he keeps missing Nadal

In 2009 Rafa and Fed did meet at Madrid and Fed did beat him. In 2011 Fed also beat Rafa at WTF. In 2012 they met twice and Rafa beat him at AO before Fed beat Rafa at IW.

Dont worry, there're still Basel, Paris and WTF but Im not sure Fed would get the better of Rafa though.

Nah, when Rafa was playing well at USO, in 2010 and 2011, its Fed who missed their meetings. At 2013 USO too. In 2011 Fed was still playing well so losing to Rafa was the norm.

If Rafa was good enough to reach the QF or SF to meet Fed at USO this year for eg., I'm not sure Fed would reach the final! Its not like theyre scheduled to meet in R2 or R3!

In 2011 he was playing well but not was very inconsistent, Federer was more consistent 2012 across the year.

Had Federer won those matches against Novak in 10 and 11 Rafa would have killed him. They are two excpetions Nadal didnt get to play Federer when he would have liked to. It was only really 2010 where Rafa didn't beat up on Roger when their forms wernt simultaneous.

I'm just saying there met 4 times in 2013 and the start of 14 when Rafa was miles ahead of Roger

Federer is the superior player all of 2015 didn't even get close to getting a piece of him.

I remember in early 09 Novak really got beaten up by Rafa, their h2h was 14-4! Then Novak got a reprieve and managed to take some chunks out of a out of form Rafa at the end of 09 playing him 3 times and crushing him. That wasn't the real Rafa, as he later proved on 2010, just wish Roger got some of that action in that period too!

I'm not saying it's the only reason Rafa has a great record against Roger, I'll qualify what I mean by saying Federer was lucky to get Murray so many times in 14 to save that h2h.

Well Fed was beating Rafa at the YEC so it didnt matter that they didnt meet YEC in 2009. Other than that, I dont see what Fed had missed as most of the times they're not scheduled to meet early in the draw (and if Rafa got to meet Fed in a F or SF, he should be good enough to beat Fed except indoors). In 2013, Fed was playing OK at IW until his back issue so its not like hes playing poorly and then met Rafa. In Rome he reached the final so again he was playing well. Cincy and WTF were surfaces favoring Fed so even hes playing a notch down from his normal level, he's still good enough to reach the QF and SF respectively. Its not like his game was so off that he lost in R2 or R3.

I really dont think Fed missed many chances of beating Rafa, except maybe at Cincy this year.

Oh, Fed was consistent across 2012 but he still lost to Rafa at AO. Fed was also beaten by Novak at Rome and FO in the SF when Rafa made the finals. On grass maybe its Rafa who missed the meetings that year at Halle and Wimbledon. Rafa skipped the whole chunk of 2012 after the Wimbledon so its not like hes losing before meeting Fed.

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Well Fed was beating Rafa at the YEC so it didnt matter that they didnt meet YEC in 2009. Other than that, I dont see what Fed had missed as most of the times they're not scheduled to meet early in the draw (and if Rafa got to meet Fed in a F or SF, he should be good enough to beat Fed except indoors). In 2013, Fed was playing OK at IW until his back issue so its not like hes playing poorly and then met Rafa.  In Rome he reached the final so again he was playing well.  Cincy and WTF were surfaces favoring Fed so even hes playing a notch down from his normal level, he's still good enough to reach the QF and SF respectively. Its not like his game was so off that he lost in R2 or R3.

I really dont think Fed missed many chances of beating Rafa, except maybe at Cincy this year.

I'm not a great fan of the original argument, but that really is... well deeply flawed might be a polite description.

Well BB your take may be flawed too so lets leave it at that, we have our own opinions thats all I have to say.

I'm nt sure what you're argument is BLB,  he beat Federer at the YEC in 2013 so that's my point, Federer was well off at that point.

I'm saying Federer clearly wasnt playing his confident level but still was getting to SF and Fs to play Rafa in years the Spaniard was top dog.

I would have liked to see Federer have a crack at Nadal in the second half of 2012, 14 and all of 15 is all.

As Federer got a pasting in the years 13, 11 and 08 when everyone could see he wasn't quite at a level to challenge Rafa like he was in 12, 14 and 15 especially the summer months and of course mainly Rafa wasn't the Rafa we all know

Just a hopeful Federer fan who wants to see what would happen now

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Nah, when Rafa was playing well at USO, in 2010 and 2011, its Fed who missed their meetings. At 2013 USO too. In 2011 Fed was still playing well so losing to Rafa was the norm.

There is a huge different though in not keeping an appointment to meet by losing to the #2 or #3 player in the world in a semifinal like Federer did vs. Nadal not keeping his appoitments losing to guys ranked in the 30,40's,etc... I think that is frustrating for many Federer fans- Nadal has been more prone to real upsets.

Sure both have missed meetings they should have made though.

Nadal himself said once when asked about the H2H- he needs to be playing at peak ability to make finals while Federer is better and can make finals at less than peak... Now that's nadal being a bit modest but there is some truth to that at various times.

At same time- there is just no way around that Nadal style was a matchup nightmare for Federer.. Even both at their best- Nadals game was always going to be Feds kryptonite. It's also not really unusual in the history of the game for the overall greater player like Federer to have someone who just doesn't match up well with... Look at any great and there was someone.. Sampras/Krajiceck,etc.. Federer had the unique misfortune that the guy he had most problems with also happened to be a top 3 or 4 all time player who met him many times in important places. Heck Hrbaty gave Nadal AND Federer fits but no one cares or notices because he was a low rung player who only make it to meet them a few times. It is what it is though- they still brought out the best in each other many times, and I think either is pretty pleased with their place in history

But 2012 and 2014 if Rafa wasn't injured and missed the second half season, I don't think Fed would beat Rafa should they meet! Rafa was still playing well enough to reach SF and F during 2012 and 2014 before his injury break.

You see, Fed lost to Rafa being the norm, so if Rafa was good enough to reach QF, SF or F to meet Fed, I won't bet that Fed would have any advantage over a below par Rafa. OTOH, a below par Fed reaching SF or F to face Rafa was almost sure of a defeat at the hands of Rafa. I acknowledged that on grass and on indoor courts that may be another story (as stated in my previous post(s)).

In 2010, Fed needed three sets to beat Rafa at WTF and Fed was playing well then; so, a below par Fed lost to a Rafa who's playing well at WTF 2013, I see it as being logical, not something unusual.

Yes but at least in 2012 and 14 summer months I think it would have been one heck of a contest! Would have loved to have seen it,  they haven't really ever both being playing great at the same time for a number of years. I would say 2012 was the closest both were confident and winning tournaments at the same time maybe since 07/08 and it hasn't really happened since

I've often pointed out that if Federer had been a poorer clay court player he'd have possibly had 1 less Slam and a good h2h with Nadal.

Would that have helped though? H2H off clay is 10-8 to Nadal. Let's say Fed had been less good and they had only met 5 times on clay (with Rafa winning all 5). It would then be a 15-8 H2H and Fed would have one less slam.

15-8 is still not a good H2H. Fed would want 17 slams instead of 16 for sure.

Well then go further, if Federer was less of a player on clay and Nadal was as good an indoor player as Federer is on clay, just for giggles make it so they've played 15 imes indoor and just the 5 times on clay...then the h2h would be good for Federer.

The crazy thing about doing that is, by making Federer less complete and Rafa more complete it actually favours Federer in their h2h

Dunno, Feds outdoor hc h2h is more embarassing than his clay one... Not sure making Rafa a more complete hc player is what you should be wishing for, hed be out of sight!
Dunno if I want them to play again, they both blew most of their chances the last 5 years to properly meet again and the magic has gone...

I do agree the magic is gone

I'd have to check the stats but I think they only played on outdoor hard courts 6 times or so in 6 years before Federer was 30, a lot of those losses have come after that

Last time we checked it was 8-1 to Rafa with 3-0 at slams, all the Aussie. Even at 30+ thats not the sort of return id expect from roger who is and should show to be the more accomplished hc
player.

Could play in the final of Basel, but looks tenuous. Rafa has cilic up next, and roger has to deal with tricky Goffin

If Rafa is more complete a player, I doubt Fed could even have any advantage on indoor HCs. The H2H would be even worse for Fed.

The H2H is just what it is; a more complete Rafa at an earlier age would make things worse for Fed. Fed still got his 17 slams , that's more important for him.

Gasquet has more chances of beating Nadal as its indoor. People really need to get real if they think Nadal is suddenly going to take this title from nowhere.

If the Cilic match is any indication, or the Dimitrov, Nadal will play baseline slugfest and win. Both Dimitrov and Cilic had breaks and sets.

Federer's FH seems to be wayward, as seen in Goffin match.

If Federer can play like he played O2, he can win, but can he?

Belovedluckyboy wrote:If Rafa is more complete a player, I doubt Fed could even have any advantage on indoor HCs. The H2H would be even worse for Fed.

... and Federer would have 3 more RGs. . What-if does not help either Federer or Nadal.

LF doesn't seem to follow the conversation about the H2H.

CAS, even on outdoor HCs, Rafa was 4-1 vs Fed, from 2004 to 2011, before Fed turned 30. It's on grass and on indoor HCs that Fed had the edge.

Rafa is now in the SF. All the winners of the QF matches had to go the distance to win their matches, I don't see anyone as a sure winner of the title.

They will play tomorrow, so this thread was answered in 2 weeks

I was just going to say the same - question asking if they would ever play again answered in 2 weeks.

They could play three more times this year after tomorrow.

Yeah, bogbrush getting all emotional and soft as he ages.

Though bb does not like Nadal, he will miss Nadal I swear, when he quits tennis next year

What happened at the end there with Fed ? I looked and he was 5-1 up and next minute it was 5-4. Any way, he got there in the end.
Now, of course, Fed and Rafa will do nothing but play each other over the next few weeks. I reckon Rafa has a good chance tomorrow. The one thing that may tell against him is stamina. He's had some long matches.

Jahu wrote:Though bb does not like Nadal, he will miss Nadal I swear, when he quits tennis

I will miss Nadal too - good stories need to have their villains.

But while he is playing, I am enjoying having him around.  For me, this year has been by some distance the most enjoyable year of watching Rafa.

Hahaha, sweet irony sb.

Let's all hope Djoko has the same quality year as Nadal, all next year

Jahu wrote:Let's all hope Djoko has the same quality year as Nadal, all next year

LOL, indeed.

summerblues wrote:

Jahu wrote:Though bb does not like Nadal, he will miss Nadal I swear, when he quits tennis

I will miss Nadal too - good stories need to have their villains.

But while he is playing, I am enjoying having him around.  For me, this year has been by some distance the most enjoyable year of watching Rafa.

Enjoy it wont last

I nominate this thread for end of year egg on face award:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/34689109

Nore Staat wrote:I nominate this thread for end of year egg on face award:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/34689109

I second the nomination...

The Spaniard said: "I have played against Roger hundreds of times around the world, in Madrid a couple of times in finals, but I have never played him in his home.''

Some Fedal fans may object to this...

Playing this final to me, is all gravy. To come back in that Rosol match, then take out Dimitrov & Cilic indoors being down as he was, then win in 2S v Gasquet, when Gasquet had all those chances - great to see Nadal mentally "there," regardless of the result in final. Looking forward to a competitive match, not bothered about who hoists the trophy....

Getting away from Basel, Fed and Rafa are in the opposite halves of the draw in Paris. So, if they are to meet there, they will both have to make the final, and Rafa will quite possibly have to advance through Nole.

So the odds there must be quite low, and WTF is a better chance for another meeting (or two).