Scarlets v Munster 23rd October 2015 19:05 Parc y Scarlets

Each side has begun their 2015/16 Guinness PRO12 campaign with perfect 100% winning records - the best start Scarlets have made to any season in the tournament, whilst Munster also began with four wins in both 2010/11 and 2011/12.

Scarlets have not been defeated since Edinburgh visited Parc y Scarlets in March, with their eight successive victories to date continuing their best ever winning run in the competition.

Munster's solitary defeat in their last eleven Guinness PRO12 matches came in last season's final to Glasgow Warriors, whilst their only loss in their last ten fixtures against Welsh regions came on a trip to Ospreys last March.

Scarlets have won just one of their last four clashes with Munster: 18-13 in March 2014. Munster have not been victorious at Parc y Scarlets since a 17-14 win in the European Cup in December 2011.

At Parc y Scarlets, 7.05pm. Live on BBC Wales/TG4
Referee: Gary Conway (IRFU, 16th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Simon Rees, Martyn Lewis (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: Gwyn Bowden (WRU)
TMO: Jon Mason (WRU)
Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/18125.php#kMHvgBUrtw5vlGii.99

Previous Meetings

Date Home Score Away Att
21/02/15 Scarlets 25 - 25 Munster Rugby 6,059
10/10/14 Munster Rugby 17 - 6 Scarlets 13,851
01/03/14 Scarlets 18 - 13 Munster Rugby 6,487

We are going to rock up in a new corporate jet with the Munster players waving their huge €€€€€ payslips (or £££ given the exchange rate) wearing expensive suits and Ray Ban sunglasses while twirling the keys to their Ferraris in the face of the Scarlets Players...and because of the massive salaries will beat the poverty stricken Scarlets. I believe its the Academy team being sent (on €100000 per game) who are being sent over as the higher paid stars cant be bothered...

On the rugby front the fact that we have 100% record so far is hard to believe. We have been playing like drains 80% of games. Unless we start getting our act together Scarlets could hose us.

The Scarlets are not much better ME-109, we seem to have about 40-60mins in us, but where we play those minutes are hit and miss too. Could be a good game where both teams actually turn up and try to play rugby. Or it could be a real snore fest where both are off colour.

One thing for sure thought is with fishing like that, you wont be going hungry.

Wayne Pivac has today hinted some of the internationals could make a return on Friday following assessment during the week, great news for Scarlets fans but do any of the Munster fans on here know how many of your guys are likely to be back.
With both teams on 4 from 4 and the possible return of some internationals this game could really kickstart the season.

You'd think Ball can come back in and play, and probably Samson Lee as he didn't have much game time. If Scarlets want to win then I think both of those must be selected.

Not sure about Samson, after all for an oap pete the meat has done well. Personally I think Ken will be either in the bench or starting though.

Scarlets v Munster, Guinness PRO12 Round 5, Friday October 23rd at Parc y Scarlets - 7.05pm.

Munster: Andrew Conway; Stephen Fitzgerald, David Johnston, Denis Hurley, Gerhard van den Heever; Tyler Bleyendaal, Cathal Sheridan; Dave Kilcoyne, Duncan Casey, BJ Botha; Robin Copeland, Mark Chisholm; Dave O'Callaghan, Jordan Coghlan, CJ Stander- capt.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, James Cronin, John Ryan, Dave Foley, Shane Buckley, Tomás O'Leary, Ian Keatley, Ronan O'Mahony.

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I'd say we're in for a thrashing. Definately looking at this through closed fingers.

Scarlets welcome return of internationals for top of table clash

15 Aled Thomas, 14 Hadleigh Parkes, 13 Regan King, 12 Gareth Owen, 11 DTH van der Merwe, 10 Steven Shingler, 9 Rhodri Williams, 1 Rob Evans, 2 Ken Owens, 3 Samson Lee, 4 Jake Ball, 5 Tom Price, 6 Lewis Rawlins, 7 James Davies, 8 John Barclay ©

Replacements: Emyr Phillips, Phil John, Peter Edwards, George Earle, Jack Condy, Gareth Davies, Dan Jones, Tom Williams

Sin é wrote:Scarlets v Munster, Guinness PRO12 Round 5, Friday October 23rd at Parc y Scarlets - 7.05pm.

Munster: Andrew Conway; Stephen Fitzgerald, David Johnston, Denis Hurley, Gerhard van den Heever; Tyler Bleyendaal, Cathal Sheridan; Dave Kilcoyne, Duncan Casey, BJ Botha; Robin Copeland, Mark Chisholm; Dave O'Callaghan, Jordan Coghlan, CJ Stander- capt.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, James Cronin, John Ryan, Dave Foley, Shane Buckley, Tomás O'Leary, Ian Keatley, Ronan O'Mahony.

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I'd say we're in for a thrashing. Definately looking at this through closed fingers.

Crap...they usually keep the rubbish teams for Musgrave park....Where's Saili?

Might as well hand Scarlets the five points now.

Highly conditions players coming back in to an unbeaten team, you'd think it should be a Scarlets win when looking at the team's. The problem is you can never write Munster off.

LordDowlais wrote:Scarlets welcome return of internationals for top of table clash

15 Aled Thomas, 14 Hadleigh Parkes, 13 Regan King, 12 Gareth Owen, 11 DTH van der Merwe, 10 Steven Shingler, 9 Rhodri Williams, 1 Rob Evans, 2 Ken Owens, 3 Samson Lee, 4 Jake Ball, 5 Tom Price, 6 Lewis Rawlins, 7 James Davies, 8 John Barclay ©

Replacements: Emyr Phillips, Phil John, Peter Edwards, George Earle, Jack Condy, Gareth Davies, Dan Jones, Tom Williams

We're certainly looking to maximise our run off home games looking at that, it can't be far away from our European starting line up. Just hope we put in the performance that selection warrants though as Munster are top for a reason.

I'm surprised King is still on two legs!

Ball has had hardly any rugby so needs some game time, Samson gets fit by playing so also needs the game time. Ken also has not had much rugby but looked very good when he has had the chance. Davies though has played pretty much all of every game, so hopefully Rhodri will play the 80mins.

I'd rather Gareth Davies start at 9, provided he's fully fit, and doesn't have any niggling injuries- I thought he played really well for Wales at the world cup- he was one of the few players who actually engaged his brain and played what was in front of him, rather than sticking to the drill every time he got the ball... always good to have a thinking player who makes quick decisions at 9/10, and given his form at the world cup, I'd have him as one of the first on the team sheet. You can always bring him off around the 60 minute mark then if he starts feeling the pace.

If Munster get within 10 points of Scarlets it will be a miracle.

The crowd don t rate this ref as J Davies stated he is rubbish giving a yellow for a soft high tackle.

Now a squint throw and a forward pass , what is going !

This is a frustrating game stop start, I have not seen a straight throw or feed the ref is so poor which makes it evenworse.

G Davies great break made by Thomas but a forward pass to Van DM for a try.

High tackle by Munster a no yellow, this ref should look at his performance making decisions different for each side.

Great kick, hope it is a fair result a draw

Gutted Llanelli won but great kick at the end to win it

Fantastic win Scarlets, terrible game even worse Referee.

Good win in the end but not a great game Munster offered very little and loads of mistàkes by both teàms and the officials.

Well that was interesting...!

Great to get the win. But what an appalling referee

I was concerned when earlier in the year I had heard Scarlets were not getting any backs cover, particularly at 10 and 12/13. They look covered at centre, but Shingler isn't a great player. The team won't be winning the league with him as first choice.

ME-109 wrote:If Munster get within 10 points of Scarlets it will be a miracle.

The miracle was how they lost with that fool in the middle, having just left the ground I will reserve saying to much until I see the TV recording but if it is as bad as it looked live then that guy has to be pulled up by the league. On the night it looked to be controlled by a partisan fan rather than a qualified official.

Actually the touch judges and TMO were just as bad as the ref..

The TMO got that try call wrong for me. The Munster player had no control whatsoever.

Our Irish friends on here will tell us that there is no difference between our refs and refs from other leagues.

This game alone proves the refs in the Pro12 are holding our league back.

LordDowlais wrote:Our Irish friends on here will tell us that there is no difference between our refs and refs from other leagues.

This game alone proves the refs in the Pro12 are holding our league back.

Craig Joubert.

The yellow card call was ridiculous when followed by genuine high tackles going completely in punished after.

LordDowlais wrote:Our Irish friends on here will tell us that there is no difference between our refs and refs from other leagues.

This game alone proves the refs in the Pro12 are holding our league back.

Once again, who are these great refs in the other leagues?! please just one name, I am genuinely intrigued.

Are the Welsh fans whinging about the refs yet again? This really is getting boring now

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Our Irish friends on here will tell us that there is no difference between our refs and refs from other leagues.

This game alone proves the refs in the Pro12 are holding our league back.

Once again, who are these great refs in the other leagues?! please just one name, I am genuinely intrigued.

Fair comment...!

Steffan wrote:Are the Welsh fans whinging about the refs yet again? This really is getting boring now

First time I've ever agreed with you Steffan. Spot on.

Griff wrote:

Steffan wrote:Are the Welsh fans whinging about the refs yet again? This really is getting boring now

First time I've ever agreed with you Steffan. Spot on.

You are a man of reasonable intelligence so its only natural we would agree on something eventually

Some of the Welsh "regional" fans on here would only be happy if all games were played in Wales with Welsh referees on a day and time assigned by the WRU

Hmm, so does anyone on here actually think Conway's performance tonight was of an acceptable level for a professional sport.
For me the guy was a disgrace, he has been heard on ref link warning Scarlets players for everything all game and totally ignoring the Scarlets Captain by simply talking over him, at the same time he is just chatting to Munster players and failing to caution them for anything.
As I said earlier, exactly how Munster lost that game I can not figure out, although that was a great kick in the circumstances to take the points.

Steffan wrote:

Griff wrote:

Steffan wrote:Are the Welsh fans whinging about the refs yet again? This really is getting boring now

First time I've ever agreed with you Steffan. Spot on.

You are a man of reasonable intelligence so its only natural we would agree on something eventually

Some of the Welsh "regional" fans on here would only be happy if all games were played in Wales with Welsh referees on a day and time assigned by the WRU

I am complaining about an inept performance by an official. I am not the only one. The referee and his officials made some bizarre decisions. Despite those decisions that predominantly hindered the Scarlets, they still won by scoring tries and kicking their goals.

The moral of the story is play better rugby and poor officials make little difference.

2ndtimeround wrote:Hmm, so does anyone on here actually think Conway's performance tonight was of an acceptable level for a professional sport.
For me the guy was a disgrace, he has been heard on ref link warning Scarlets players for everything all game and totally ignoring the Scarlets Captain by simply talking over him, at the same time he is just chatting to Munster players and failing to caution them for anything.
As I said earlier, exactly how Munster lost that game I can not figure out, although that was a great kick in the circumstances to take the points.

I think it was a touch judge call on the high tackle at the end there... Great for Scarlets to continue their unbeaten run - but poor scrummagers like Botha caused them problems so that must be a cause for concern.

mikey_dragon wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Hmm, so does anyone on here actually think Conway's performance tonight was of an acceptable level for a professional sport.
For me the guy was a disgrace, he has been heard on ref link warning Scarlets players for everything all game and totally ignoring the Scarlets Captain by simply talking over him, at the same time he is just chatting to Munster players and failing to caution them for anything.
As I said earlier, exactly how Munster lost that game I can not figure out, although that was a great kick in the circumstances to take the points.

I think it was a touch judge call on the high tackle at the end there... Great for Scarlets to continue their unbeaten run - but poor scrummagers like Botha caused them problems so that must be a cause for concern.

Botha played very well, if Munster had won I think he could have deserved MOTM

I'm not doubting he played well, he's just poor at scrums and always has been. It must be concerning for that Scarlets front 5 to be driven backwards.

mikey_dragon wrote:I'm not doubting he played well, he's just poor at scrums and always has been. It must be concerning for that Scarlets front 5 to be driven backwards.

Yes concerning but their was a fair bit going on in the scrum that the ref and his merry men didn't analyse to well. One or two penalties correctly given, but most were lottery calls.
The line out is a huge worry though.

I guess with three out of the front five all on their first week back at the Scarlets that the set piece was never going to be great.

I'm sure they will be working hard on it over the next few weeks

The Scarlets were dreadful, the ref a joke but they still won a game a season ago they would have lost.

The scrum was a lottery and the ref appeared to have decided before the game that Munster would win this aspect of the contest so penalised the Scarlets consistently. Samson clearly is not fully recovered from his achilles injury and Ken also looked to be struggling. The line out though was a complete shambles, at first I thought Munster has got hold of a copy of the Scarlets calls but I am now of the opinion that Ken just didn't know them and was throwing the Wales calls instead.

The sin binning was a joke, the replay clearly showed the Scarlets wing pulling out of the high hit, but the ref was so weak, he did not have the confidence to over rule the touch judge. He then compounded his mistake by letting two clear high tackles go unpunished. As for the try's, I don't think any of them should have been given. The first was a knock on, the second elbow in touch and the third another fumble with no downward pressure.

Still if the Scarlets can play that poorly and win, look out when the play well!

Watch it at the ground last night, and though Conway (ref), must have been related to Conway (fullback) with how poor his calls were. I honestly could not believe how poor, and crooked he seemed.

But I have just finished watching on iplayer, and in fairness to him he was just out of his depth but dire both ways. The assistants and Tom were no better either.

Aa Seagul said, if the Scarlets can pick up a win when they are that bad, it does make you wonder how good they will be if/when everything clicks for a full 80.

One thing surprises me is the complete silence on this thread from Irish posters that usually defend the ref and make out its all due to whingeing Welsh fans, does that mean even they don't think Conway's performance was defendable?

2ndtimeround wrote:One thing surprises me is the complete silence on this thread from Irish posters that usually defend the ref and make out its all due to whingeing Welsh fans, does that mean even they don't think Conway's performance was defendable?

He was very bad for both teams. No bias involved whatsoever which is the usual claim from Welsh fans.

Sin é wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:One thing surprises me is the complete silence on this thread from Irish posters that usually defend the ref and make out its all due to whingeing Welsh fans, does that mean even they don't think Conway's performance was defendable?

He was very bad for both teams. No bias involved whatsoever which is the usual claim from Welsh fans.

We were talking about this after the game.

The general opinion was Welsh ref/linesmen tend to give the 50-50 to the non-Welsh sides (almost from fear of accusations of cheating), and the Irish refs/linesmen tend to favour the perceived better side (generally the Irish, as they are the 'better' team).

Also we were saying, seeing as most televised games are regional home games, and most games attended by Welsh fans are home games, and 90% of the time it's Irish refs for these games, we see more Irish refs, so it is them we get most critical about for that reason.

As a side note, our announcer did tannoy 'please respect both kickers' (when the fans are booing the decision to award the try, not the kick attempt as such). And also after the yellow he tannoyed 'please do not boo', which was met with a tongue in cheek panto boo from the crowd, and a fair bit of laughter. This didn't come across too well on the tv mind.

The only international for the Scarlets that looked good was Gareth Davies - he came off the bench. Perhaps there was some readjustment issues for the internationals, and before the team was announced I thought they would have been on the bench rather than start. Pivac must have been desperate for a win, and in this instance it almost cost him.