World class players - top 3 in the world in each position

I know this is completely subjective but I thought it would be interesting to get peoples views on who they believe the top players world wide are following the RWC. 'World class' is now widely considered as the top 3 players in the world in each position.

For me these are the players world wide who I would most want in my starting XV if I was picking a side to play for my mortgage.

1.Ayerza, Sio, Nariashvili
2.Coles, Bismark, Best
3.Herrera, Nel, O Franks
4.Retallick, Etzebeth, Wyn Jones
5.De Jager, O'Connell, Whitelock
6.Kaino, O'Brien, Gorgodze
7.Pocock, McCaw, Hooper
8.Vermuelen, Read, Picamoles

9.Smith, Genia, Du Preez
10.Carter, Biggar, Foley

11.Savea, Nadolo, Habana
12.Nonu, Giteau, Fofana
13.Conrad Smith, Bennett, Kriel
14.Ashley-Cooper, Milner-Skudder, Imhoff
15.Folau, Le Roux, Ben Smith

Honorable mentions:

Shota Horie - A hooker who can hook, what a revelation it was!
Stephen Moore
Agustin Creevy
Sekope Kepu
Davit Zirkashvili - A rock in the Georgia scrum
Jonny Gray
Leone Nakarawa
Michael Leitch
Francois Louw
Sam Warburton - I haven't been a huge fan in the past as I felt he lacked consistency. This RWC he was excellent though.
Talupe Faletau
Amanaki Mafi - A wrecking ball in attack.
Greg Laidlaw - Another player who I haven't rated too highly in the past that really impressed me.
Beauden Barrett
Sonny Bill Williams
Jonathan Joseph
DTH Van Der Merwe
Santiago Cordero - A wonderful broken play runner.
Ayumu Gorumara - Yet another surprise package in that impressive Japan side.

Injury considerations - guys who played in the RWC but suffered injury during I have considered as they had a chance to prove recently prove themselves prior to injury. Those out long term I have not considered however. The only player who I would have picked but didn't due to this was Cruden.

As for recent retirements, I have chosen to include the likes of POC, Carter, Nonu and Conrad Smith who have just retired from Internationals.

Some positions were far easier than others for me with open side and number 8 for instance having three clear standouts. Blind side I will admit to bodging a bit but I rate O'Brien and Gorgodze very highly so have fitted them in there. Hooker was also a position of strength with 6 players standing out for me.

Scrum half was a real struggle with Aaron Smith way ahead of the competition IMO. Genia has found form once again to claim a place there and Fourie Du Preez pulled the strings well enough to take the other spot.

Loose head I also struggled with. Ayerza and Sio were standouts but after that I didn't feel many threw their hands up. McGrath was really impressive for Ireland but didn't start - I thought Healy ahead of him was solid but nothing like his swashbuckling best. In the end I plumped for Mikheil Nariashvili as I felt he was the rock (along with Kirkashvili) that an ever impressive Georgia scrum was built around.

Sean O'Brien isn't a world class 6 considering he hasn't played there for Ireland in years.

The line between open and blindside is becoming more blurred for many international sides IMO Rory.

Francois Louw was the first guy to miss out there but personally I'd say he is an open side who wears 6. You could argue that SA open sides traditionally wear 6 rather than 7 but then Burger is on the other flank!

Fernandez Lobbe is another terrific player not included who wears 7 for Argentina but I would very happily have on either flank.

As said in the OP I bodged blind side a bit given how many terrific 7s there are going around. Personally I think O'Brien has all the attributes to make an excellent 6 and I rate him highly enough to be considered world class so I included him.

Alun Wynn Jones?

Oh dear lord......

And Creevy is better than all those hookers you listed.

And Folau has been poor for sometime now. He ma be injured...but has nothing of note.

Brown is worthy of a mention for FB. But he's hated by anyone whos not English

Struggling with a fair few of those Carlos, notably Genia, Giteau, Sio, Coles.

My attempt:

1.Ayerza, Ben Arous, Beast
2.Creevy, Bismark, Best
3.Herrera, Slimaini, Zirkashvili
4.Retallick, Etzebeth, Skelton
5.Whitelock, De Jager, POC
6.Burger, Kaino, Dusatoir
7.Pocock, McCaw, Louw
8.Vermuelen, Read, Denton

9.Smith, Murray, Du Preez
10.Carter, Barrett, Foley

11.Savea, Nadolo, Imhoff
12.Nonu, SBW, De Allende
13.Conrad Smith, Joseph, Fekitoa
14.Huget, Naholo, Cordero
15.Smith, Brown, Hogg

Barrett? You are joking aren't you?

For the 10's. Only Foley's shaky kicking puts him behind Carter but for the rest of his play, he was better than Carter in my opinion. Biggar also played very well.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Barrett? You are joking aren't you?

Nope. Better all round player than Foley imo

This is basically who was in form at the world cup then?

No 7&1/2 wrote:This is basically who was in form at the world cup then?

Seem some think so.

Genia hasn't looked great for about 4 years, WLR had a dreadful WC by his standards.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Barrett? You are joking aren't you?

Nope. Better all round player than Foley imo

Foley and Biggar more successful and better all round players and can handle the big matches better than him though.

The Loaded Dog wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Barrett? You are joking aren't you?

Nope. Better all round player than Foley imo

Foley and Biggar more successful and better all round players and can handle the big matches better than him though.

I don't agree. Barrett would be starting for any other country bar New Zealand imo. Happy to agree to disagree, I don't rate Bigger that highly tbh.

King Carlos

Good stab at it. No one will agree but its half decent. Willie Le Roux has pedigree but has been woefully off form. I think Brown would and then Spedding probably are ahead of him at the moment. Hell if there was better competition for places in the bok squad he'd have been dropped months ago.

I think Foley benefited hugely from having Giteau on his shoulder. He's a decent 10, well balanced game but without Giteau the AUS backline falls apart. Place kicking is a little hit and miss.

Not sure about Best to be honest being anywhere near the top of the tree.

Not sure on the props but I'd go with...

1. Ayerza, Ben Arous, Beast
2. Cole, Moore, Best
3. Herrera, Slimaini, Zirkashvili
4. Retallick, Etzebeth, Henderson
5. Whitelock, De Jager, POC
6. Kaino, Burger, Gordgodze
7. McCaw, Hooper, Warburton
8. Pocock ,Read, Vermuelen

9. Smith, Murray, Laidlaw
10.Carter, Sexton, Ford

11. Savea, Habana, Imhoff
12. Nonu, SBW, De Allende
13. Conrad Smith, Joseph, Payne
14. Milner-Skudder, AAC, North
15. Smith, Brown, Falou

Henderson & Payne Rodders?

Are either of those even the best in their position in Ireland?

Yup.

Henderson was our best player in the RWC.

Ahh rodders, with all the wealth of talent in the world at 13 out there, you still feel the need to name Payne as one of the best 3. Hard to take you serious at times

eirebilly wrote:Ahh rodders, with all the wealth of talent in the world at 13 out there, you still feel the need to name Payne as one of the best 3. Hard to take you serious at times

I don't think there is a wealth of talent at all, after Smith there is a huge drop off. De alande and Joseph are talented but unproven. Kuridrani didn't have a great tournament, Jon Davies is injured.

So for me you are looking at picking Ben Smith out of position or someone like Fekitoa who didn't feature much.

Payne is the best in the NH at the minute but there isn't much competition.

In fact if BOD came back he'd be straight in the top 3

Payne is very debatable at being the best form 13 but surely being world class isn't purely related to form any way. You don't go from being world class to rubbish in a month; more a long term thing?

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Ahh rodders, with all the wealth of talent in the world at 13 out there, you still feel the need to name Payne as one of the best 3. Hard to take you serious at times

I don't think there is a wealth of talent at all, after Smith there is a huge drop off. De alande and Joseph are talented but unproven. Kuridrani didn't have a great tournament, Jon Davies is injured.

So for me you are looking at picking Ben Smith out of position or someone like Fekitoa who didn't feature much.

Payne is the best in the NH at the minute but there isn't much competition.

I am not basing it on the RWC, basing it on form for the last year.

Kriel, Joseph, JD2, Conrad, The Argentinian, the Canadian, the Italian (cant remember their names) have all looked better than the negative Payne. I even believe that Henshaw is a better 13 (although not playing there internationally) and Earls looked better there for Ireland.

Just my thoughts though

I must admit I did think Henderson looked a quality lock. He looks like he could really go on and be a top lock.

in fact its scary when you look around and see how many young good ones could be top class. Ill throw Launchburys name in there aswell.

eirebilly wrote:

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Ahh rodders, with all the wealth of talent in the world at 13 out there, you still feel the need to name Payne as one of the best 3. Hard to take you serious at times

I don't think there is a wealth of talent at all, after Smith there is a huge drop off. De alande and Joseph are talented but unproven. Kuridrani didn't have a great tournament, Jon Davies is injured.

So for me you are looking at picking Ben Smith out of position or someone like Fekitoa who didn't feature much.

Payne is the best in the NH at the minute but there isn't much competition.

I am not basing it on the RWC, basing it on form for the last year.

Kriel, Joseph, JD2, Conrad, The Argentinian, the Canadian, the Italian (cant remember their names) have all looked better than the negative Payne. I even believe that Henshaw is a better 13 (although not playing there internationally) and Earls looked better there for Ireland.

Just my thoughts though

Yes billy we get it you don't like Payne (or Joe Schmidt) and would cite a load of players you don't even know the names of, or even playing in the same position, as superior players.

It's a subjective list but I wouldn't pick 3 players ahead of Payne based on what I've watched in 2015 - so he makes my cut.

I'd probably put Cruden above Barrett, and probably Carter at 10. It's an AB blackout at 10 though.
I'm not sure about Smith at 9, he didn't seem to have a particularly good rapport with Carter, and he's never impressed at S15 level.
I think Kriel is lucky to even appear once on this list. Can't defend, and was anonymous in both the QF and SF. All he's done is run really well for ten seconds on his debut to score an admittedly good try.

rodders wrote:

Yes billy we get it you don't like Payne (or Joe Schmidt) and would cite a load of players you don't even know the names of, or even playing in the same position, as superior players.

It's a subjective list but I wouldn't pick 3 players ahead of Payne based on what I've watched in 2015 - so he makes my cut.

I don't like Payne? Have a look in the Ireland thread where I have selected him at 15 ahead of Kearney so I must rate him? I also have not said anything too bad about Schmidt...

I simply believe that there are far better 13's around than Payne...

I said those players because I have watched them but just could not remember their names, no real crime in that?

I could probably pick 10 better 13's than Payne Rodders, very strange choice.

I do rate Henderson but he's not a world class lock...yet.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I could probably pick 10 better 13's than Payne Rodders, very strange choice.

I do rate Henderson but he's not a world class lock...yet.

And I reckon a few guys in your pick are barely top club standard players but hey its all a matter of opinion pooly....

eirebilly wrote:]

I don't like Payne? Have a look in the Ireland thread where I have selected him at 15 ahead of Kearney so I must rate him? I also have not said anything too bad about Schmidt...

Or you just hate Kearney even more than Payne, which is perfectly understandable of course

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:]

I don't like Payne? Have a look in the Ireland thread where I have selected him at 15 ahead of Kearney so I must rate him? I also have not said anything too bad about Schmidt...

Or you just hate Kearney even more than Payne, which is perfectly understandable of course

Why hate? I don't hate any player. Come on rodders, try not to lower yourself to Notch's standards of childish comebacks when not agreeing with someone's opinions

GeordieFalcon wrote:Alun Wynn Jones?

Oh dear lord......

And Creevy is better than all those hookers you listed.

And Folau has been poor for sometime now. He ma be injured...but has nothing of note.

Brown is worthy of a mention for FB. But he's hated by anyone whos not English

Joe Launchbury it is then . You don't be on the losing team by 20 points against Aus get the MOTM award for nout!

Also this is based on the world cup, so Warburton has to be in the top 3 open-sides, likely at the expense of Hooper. Or Pocock if you shift him to 8 where he played for most of the tournament.

eirebilly wrote:

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:]

I don't like Payne? Have a look in the Ireland thread where I have selected him at 15 ahead of Kearney so I must rate him? I also have not said anything too bad about Schmidt...

Or you just hate Kearney even more than Payne, which is perfectly understandable of course

Why hate? I don't hate any player. Come on rodders, try not to lower yourself to Notch's standards of childish comebacks when not agreeing with someone's opinions

OK hate is maybe an exaggeration  - I think you hold a slightly unreasonable and disproportionately negative opinion of his ability and character in relation to his peers, in particularly his adopted countrymen and more specifically those from southwesterly counties - would like to see Notch come up with that one

mikey_dragon wrote:Also this is based on the world cup, so Warburton has to be in the top 3 open-sides, likely at the expense of Hooper. Or Pocock if you shift him to 8 where he played for most of the tournament.

Which is exactly what I have done....

rodders wrote:
OK hate is maybe an exaggeration  - I think you hold a slightly unreasonable and disproportionately negative opinion of his ability and character in relation to his peers, in particularly his adopted countrymen and more specifically those from southwesterly counties - would like to see Notch come up with that one

Sure now, that would hold weight if I selected Zebo ahead of Payne and Kearney at 15 rodders

Anyways, should not really go off topic anymore

mikey_dragon wrote:Also this is based on the world cup, so Warburton has to be in the top 3 open-sides, likely at the expense of Hooper. Or Pocock if you shift him to 8 where he played for most of the tournament.

I'd have Pocock, Hooper, McCaw, Louw and Hardie as the top 5 opensides of the tournament. Warburton probably fits the world class label better as has done it over more time than Hardie, but I think the Scottish Kiwi had a better tournament

eirebilly wrote:

Sure now, that would hold weight if I selected Zebo ahead of Payne and Kearney at 15 rodders

No because Zebo should be selected ahead of those two... [/quote]

I take it you're an Ulster fan Rodders?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I take it you're an Ulster fan Rodders?

Well yes ..... but you aren't suggesting that influenced my selection are you?

rodders wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I take it you're an Ulster fan Rodders?

Well yes ..... but you aren't suggesting that influenced my selection are you?

Haha, I thought thought you were being serious but can understand the joke now. Jared Payne

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Also this is based on the world cup, so Warburton has to be in the top 3 open-sides, likely at the expense of Hooper. Or Pocock if you shift him to 8 where he played for most of the tournament.

I'd have Pocock, Hooper, McCaw, Louw and Hardie as the top 5 opensides of the tournament. Warburton probably fits the world class label better as has done it over more time than Hardie, but I think the Scottish Kiwi had a better tournament

It's no surprise that you don't want a Welsh open-side in the top 3. Hardie, pffft. We'll see just how good he is come February, but as it stands I think the only two 7's in the world who could be considered better than Warburton is McCaw and Pocock (on their day). Pocock was probably the best by some distance, despite the fact he played at No.8...

I'd also drop Genia. Don't see what he's done that is so good. You could put in Laidlaw or Davies instead.

mikey_dragon wrote:

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Also this is based on the world cup, so Warburton has to be in the top 3 open-sides, likely at the expense of Hooper. Or Pocock if you shift him to 8 where he played for most of the tournament.

I'd have Pocock, Hooper, McCaw, Louw and Hardie as the top 5 opensides of the tournament. Warburton probably fits the world class label better as has done it over more time than Hardie, but I think the Scottish Kiwi had a better tournament

It's no surprise that you don't want a Welsh open-side in the top 3. Hardie, pffft. We'll see just how good he is come February, but as it stands I think the only two 7's in the world who could be considered better than Warburton is McCaw and Pocock (on their day). Pocock was probably the best by some distance, despite the fact he played at No.8...

I'd also drop Genia. Don't see what he's done that is so good. You could put in Laidlaw or Davies instead.

Why February? Anyone with an ounce of rugby knowledge would have seen how good he was during the WC (and S15 as it happens). But in a less dismissive/annoying way, I'd also say Warburton is up there.

Laidlaw isn't even in the top 5/6 in the world.

mikey_dragon wrote:

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Also this is based on the world cup, so Warburton has to be in the top 3 open-sides, likely at the expense of Hooper. Or Pocock if you shift him to 8 where he played for most of the tournament.

I'd have Pocock, Hooper, McCaw, Louw and Hardie as the top 5 opensides of the tournament. Warburton probably fits the world class label better as has done it over more time than Hardie, but I think the Scottish Kiwi had a better tournament

It's no surprise that you don't want a Welsh open-side in the top 3. Hardie, pffft. We'll see just how good he is come February, but as it stands I think the only two 7's in the world who could be considered better than Warburton is McCaw and Pocock (on their day). Pocock was probably the best by some distance, despite the fact he played at No.8...

I'd also drop Genia. Don't see what he's done that is so good. You could put in Laidlaw or Davies instead.

Well argued

I said "of the tournament" and also said that Warburton fits the world class label better than Hardie

World class surely goes beyond the last 6 weeks?

Hardie has been great at S15 level which is the closest you'll get to Int level. I'd throw him at a similar level to Warburton but behind Pocock & McCaw obviously. Not a huge Hooper fan so wouldn't include him personally.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Also this is based on the world cup, so Warburton has to be in the top 3 open-sides, likely at the expense of Hooper. Or Pocock if you shift him to 8 where he played for most of the tournament.

I'd have Pocock, Hooper, McCaw, Louw and Hardie as the top 5 opensides of the tournament. Warburton probably fits the world class label better as has done it over more time than Hardie, but I think the Scottish Kiwi had a better tournament

It's no surprise that you don't want a Welsh open-side in the top 3. Hardie, pffft. We'll see just how good he is come February, but as it stands I think the only two 7's in the world who could be considered better than Warburton is McCaw and Pocock (on their day). Pocock was probably the best by some distance, despite the fact he played at No.8...

I'd also drop Genia. Don't see what he's done that is so good. You could put in Laidlaw or Davies instead.

Why February? Anyone with an ounce of rugby knowledge would have seen how good he was during the WC (and S15 as it happens). But in a less dismissive/annoying way, I'd also say Warburton is up there.

Laidlaw isn't even in the top 5/6 in the world.

Because that is when the 6 Nations begins. Yeah I guess Hardie would look amazing against the likes of Japan, etc, - granted he and the other Kiwi open-side you have playing for you also played well against Australia - but when it comes to the 6 Nations you'll often be playing teams better than most of your world cup opponents. Also I never watched the S15 but please, Hardie better than Warbs because of some good S15 form? Give us a break...

If you say so, but looking at the OP this is clearly based on the world cup. I felt Laidlaw and Davies were better than Genia who somehow features in the top 3.

Also if it isn't based on the world cup then I feel Warburton would still be in based on his previous 6 Nations form, as would Biggar (sorry English I know that bugs you).

Also I never watched the S15 but please, Hardie better than Warbs because of some good S15 form? Give us a break...

I think your argument begins to look a bit thin after that comment Mick.

Well no, Biggar wouldn't be in a top 3 of world class 10s based on the say, the last 2 years of rugby. But he most definitely is in based on just the world cup

Warburton for me is not a top 3 openside, a top 5 yes... but he's perhaps the best or close to the best captains out there. In the NH he is peerless. He's so valuable in that way and why he'd start for me.. and if not at 7, i'd find a place for him at 6 or 8.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Also this is based on the world cup, so Warburton has to be in the top 3 open-sides, likely at the expense of Hooper. Or Pocock if you shift him to 8 where he played for most of the tournament.

I'd have Pocock, Hooper, McCaw, Louw and Hardie as the top 5 opensides of the tournament. Warburton probably fits the world class label better as has done it over more time than Hardie, but I think the Scottish Kiwi had a better tournament

It's no surprise that you don't want a Welsh open-side in the top 3. Hardie, pffft. We'll see just how good he is come February, but as it stands I think the only two 7's in the world who could be considered better than Warburton is McCaw and Pocock (on their day). Pocock was probably the best by some distance, despite the fact he played at No.8...

I'd also drop Genia. Don't see what he's done that is so good. You could put in Laidlaw or Davies instead.

Why February? Anyone with an ounce of rugby knowledge would have seen how good he was during the WC (and S15 as it happens). But in a less dismissive/annoying way, I'd also say Warburton is up there.

Laidlaw isn't even in the top 5/6 in the world.

Because that is when the 6 Nations begins. Yeah I guess Hardie would look amazing against the likes of Japan, etc, - granted he and the other Kiwi open-side you have playing for you also played well against Australia - but when it comes to the 6 Nations you'll often be playing teams better than most of your world cup opponents. Also I never watched the S15 but please, Hardie better than Warbs because of some good S15 form? Give us a break...

If you say so, but looking at the OP this is clearly based on the world cup. I felt Laidlaw and Davies were better than Genia who somehow features in the top 3.

Also if it isn't based on the world cup then I feel Warburton would still be in based on his previous 6 Nations form, as would Biggar (sorry English I know that bugs you).

Nice pathetic dig. You did notice that Wales were one of the top teams to have 'outsiders' playing for them didn't you? Hardie and Cowan were far better against Oz than Warburton was. You also don't watch S15 much then which is of a higher standard than our RCC.

I also think you're being highly disrespectful to Japan and USA. Japan I would say are on a par with Fiji based on WC form who, incidently, won 3 matches - 1 of which was against SA. USA are also much improved and better than Uruguay.

Anyway, I have more interesting things to be getting on with than arguing with a little Welshman with a complete disregard and appreciation of talented rugby players outside his own country.

Good luck to you.

The Welsh wums derailing a thread shocker......