GGG v Lemieux - Box office flop !!...

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Surprised Haz hasn't written a thread about this !!!

150,000 buys for Lemieux v GGG............Not good..........Same as the Hopkins v half dead Roy Jones 2 debacle.

Talking about Lemieux would anyone give him a chance against......

Benn...Eubank...Nunn........Mccallum.......Hagler.......Hearns....Kalambay....Graham........Collins......Martinez.....Hoppo...Pavlik......Tate...

Thought not......

Time for GGG to move up to 168 and fight someone decent me thinks....Instead of taking out the trash.

Lara has been guilty of "phoning it in" on occasions and as a result I don't think he's reached the same heights as Rigo Once he's stepped up in class his record has become patchy. Shame really as he definitely has the tools to test GGG but perhaps his laid back "Cuban attitude" has been his downfall

I agree there Dave. Very talented although he has shown it for a sustained period. Makes hard work of fights that he should be winning with ease with his skill levels.

Angulo was hurting him, GGG knocks him out. I suppose I've done him a bit of a disservice in calling him a runner. I know he's more than that however he would have to employ those tactics against GGG.

In the 2nd half of the Alvarez fight he mainly cruised and ran the way Floyd does in the last round of most of his recent fights when the fights won.

Does Lara have the ability to give GGG a good fight? Sure he does. Does he have the rest of the required attributes? Size, power, resilience, work rate? I don't think so personally. He might well try and run and spoil but I don't see it working. If he couldn't get out of the way of Anglo he's not staying clear of golovkin.

I think GGG would destroy him.

Cotto v Lara would be a better fight if Cotto comes through next week. Doubt Cotto would need the hassle of a fight like that (style wise) at this stage of his career after Trout made him look silly.

Is this Mayweather's legacy? Talking PPV numbers on a boxing board?

Here's Loeffler's view:

"It will do just over 150,000 buys, which was the number we originally based things on when we talked to [Lemieux promoter] Golden Boy about making the fight to determine how much Lemieux would need and what Gennady would need," Loeffler said.

During the buildup to the fight, Loeffler was bullish that the event could exceed their initial expectations because of how much buzz the fight was getting and the fact that they sold out Madison Square Garden. But faced with tremendous competition from college football games and a popular National League Championship Series between the New York Mets and Chicago Cubs -- involving two huge markets -- the fight suffered, Loeffler said.

"I thought it would have a good chance to break 200,000, but with all the college football games and no way to predict the Mets would be playing the Cubs -- a high-end playoff series -- it was tough," he said. "A lot of people were watching baseball in those big markets, but overall, we were happy with the event. When you can sell every single ticket to Madison Square Garden and generate a gate of over $2 million, you're happy."

HBO Sports senior vice president Mark Taffet, who runs HBO PPV, said the event was a strong first-time pay-per-view effort for Golovkin, regarded by many as a future face of boxing in the wake of Floyd Mayweather's retirement last month.

"Golovkin-Lemieux met or exceeded every benchmark of success which was set going into the event," Taffet told ESPN.com. "The PPV buys solidly met expectations even amidst the Mets-Cubs national telecast registering the highest-ever TBS baseball playoff viewership, including the PPV-critical markets of New York and Chicago. This, combined with the palpable excitement of the sold-out crowd in Madison Square Garden and the in-ring performances by Gennady Golovkin and [co-feature winner Roman] 'Chocolatito' Gonzalez, encourage us that the next great era of boxing has begun and will continue with the highly-anticipated [Miguel] Cotto-Canelo [Alvarez)] megafight on Nov. 21."

Loeffler said he knew he was taking a risk by putting Golovkin on pay-per-view, especially against an opponent who had only appeared once previously on HBO and did not have a big name in the United States.

"But we've always taken risks to get Gennady where he's at," Loeffler. "And so we thought it was the right step at this point. It was worth it. We generated a lot of money with the pay-per-view, delay rights from HBO, the closed circuit and the international revenue.

"A lot of people focus on the American market, but he had one of the highest rated international shows in the U.K. on BoxNation, on SAT.1 in Germany and the biggest channel in Russia. He was also on Polsat, the biggest channel in Poland, for the first time. And on top of that, the Garden told us we broke the merchandise record for any boxing event there: over $122,000."

Loeffler said Golovkin will continue to appear on HBO as well as on HBO PPV, depending on the level of fight.

"He is the type of fighter who can fight on HBO and still have a significant budget or have a big fight on pay-per-view," Loeffler said. "I thought we gave the fans a lot of value with considering the ticket prices and the price of the pay-per-view. It was their first time on pay-per-view, and even though we thought it might break 200,000, we certainly don't look at it as a negative. The fight still generated more than the license fee would have been from HBO, and the international sales were very strong, as were our sponsorships."

Golovkin's team would be nuts to leave 160, give up all the titles they have secured (which remain bargaining chips in any negotiation) and potential fights with Cotto and Canelo (huge PPV affairs) to seek out James DeGale and Badou Jack.

Hopefully he can fight the lot in time. Once he's wiped out 160, he can do the same at 168.

Things are looking up for GGG.

Only another half dozen fights and he shoud break the 1 million barrier

You complain about Mayweather's legacy making us talk about PPV numbers and then post an article making excuses for GGG's poor numbers, oh the irony.

AdamT wrote: Things are looking up for GGG.

Only another half dozen fights and he shoud break the 1 million barrier

Which of course is a sign of success and an easy mark to break?

Only something like 30% of HBO/Showtime PPV fights from the last 30 years broke a million. Only around 20% involving non-heavyweights.

There's also the Mayweather-Pacquiao legacy to consider. A lot of people were burned by that dismal affair and so naturally, you'd expect to see a slump in it's aftermath as casual fans give PPV boxing a wide berth (like when Haye vs Harrison broke Sky's PPV model for a while).

In addition, Golovkin's nationality has an affect. Of the 20% mentioned above - Pacquiao was the only "a-side" of non-American descent (on 4 or 5 occasions depending who you feel was the star in Pac-Cotto).

PPVs featuring two non-Americans that broke 1m? No even a handful.

Again, though, PPV numbers on a boxing board? Says a lot.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You complain about Mayweather's legacy making us talk about PPV numbers and then post an article making excuses for GGG's poor numbers, oh the irony.

I didn't complain. Oh the inability to read.

it's good to see that after a quiet month, normal service on the board is resumed

milkyboy wrote:it's good to see that after a quiet month, normal service on the board is resumed

Hagler 115-114 Leonard

GGG is a good fighter, but nobody cares about him, other than hardcore fans.

hazharrison wrote:

milkyboy wrote:it's good to see that after a quiet month, normal service on the board is resumed

Hagler 115-114 Leonard

AdamT wrote:GGG is a good fighter, but nobody cares about him, other than hardcore fans.

Then again the same could be said of Mayweather until he beat Oscar. You sometimes have to beat the star to become the star. I think the PPV numbers were fine considering you had a Kazakh and a Canadian fighting at MSG and also that it was GGG's first PPV. It's a solid base from which to build his profile and the numbers will increase if he gets the bigger names.

.

hazharrison wrote:Is this Mayweather's legacy? Talking PPV numbers on a boxing board?

Here's Loeffler's view:

"It will do just over 150,000 buys, which was the number we originally based things on when we talked to [Lemieux promoter] Golden Boy about making the fight to determine how much Lemieux would need and what Gennady would need," Loeffler said.

During the buildup to the fight, Loeffler was bullish that the event could exceed their initial expectations because of how much buzz the fight was getting and the fact that they sold out Madison Square Garden. But faced with tremendous competition from college football games and a popular National League Championship Series between the New York Mets and Chicago Cubs -- involving two huge markets -- the fight suffered, Loeffler said.

"I thought it would have a good chance to break 200,000, but with all the college football games and no way to predict the Mets would be playing the Cubs -- a high-end playoff series -- it was tough," he said. "A lot of people were watching baseball in those big markets, but overall, we were happy with the event. When you can sell every single ticket to Madison Square Garden and generate a gate of over $2 million, you're happy."

HBO Sports senior vice president Mark Taffet, who runs HBO PPV, said the event was a strong first-time pay-per-view effort for Golovkin, regarded by many as a future face of boxing in the wake of Floyd Mayweather's retirement last month.

"Golovkin-Lemieux met or exceeded every benchmark of success which was set going into the event," Taffet told ESPN.com. "The PPV buys solidly met expectations even amidst the Mets-Cubs national telecast registering the highest-ever TBS baseball playoff viewership, including the PPV-critical markets of New York and Chicago. This, combined with the palpable excitement of the sold-out crowd in Madison Square Garden and the in-ring performances by Gennady Golovkin and [co-feature winner Roman] 'Chocolatito' Gonzalez, encourage us that the next great era of boxing has begun and will continue with the highly-anticipated [Miguel] Cotto-Canelo [Alvarez)] megafight on Nov. 21."

Loeffler said he knew he was taking a risk by putting Golovkin on pay-per-view, especially against an opponent who had only appeared once previously on HBO and did not have a big name in the United States.

"But we've always taken risks to get Gennady where he's at," Loeffler. "And so we thought it was the right step at this point. It was worth it. We generated a lot of money with the pay-per-view, delay rights from HBO, the closed circuit and the international revenue.

"A lot of people focus on the American market, but he had one of the highest rated international shows in the U.K. on BoxNation, on SAT.1 in Germany and the biggest channel in Russia. He was also on Polsat, the biggest channel in Poland, for the first time. And on top of that, the Garden told us we broke the merchandise record for any boxing event there: over $122,000."

Loeffler said Golovkin will continue to appear on HBO as well as on HBO PPV, depending on the level of fight.

"He is the type of fighter who can fight on HBO and still have a significant budget or have a big fight on pay-per-view," Loeffler said. "I thought we gave the fans a lot of value with considering the ticket prices and the price of the pay-per-view. It was their first time on pay-per-view, and even though we thought it might break 200,000, we certainly don't look at it as a negative. The fight still generated more than the license fee would have been from HBO, and the international sales were very strong, as were our sponsorships."

Golovkin's team would be nuts to leave 160, give up all the titles they have secured (which remain bargaining chips in any negotiation) and potential fights with Cotto and Canelo (huge PPV affairs) to seek out James DeGale and Badou Jack.

Hopefully he can fight the lot in time. Once he's wiped out 160, he can do the same at 168.

Well that's it then...

I take it all back..

What do all former ppv stars have in common??

They have a guy editing articles to make them look bad before posting them on here ???

Haha

They were making serious money before the age of 33 and created real legacies.

In fairness we are too subjective on GGG and Floyd..

We need Haz objectivity on these guys..

So let's not complain !!

I like GGG, he is a good figher, but I can't ignore these numbers. They are very poor. I don't buy the excuse he isn't American either.

It's like Waldorf and Statler...

So a fighter's quality is now based on earnings and PPV numbers?

I'm guessing Roy Jones's legacy just took a hit?

I'm arguing no more about it. As it stands his numbers suck, hopefully they improve, for boxings sake.

hazharrison wrote:It's like Waldorf and Statler...

So a fighter's quality is now based on earnings and PPV numbers?

I'm guessing Roy Jones's legacy just took a hit?

Yep I have Mayweather top 10 because of his PPV figures....

AdamT wrote:I'm arguing no more about it. As it stands his numbers suck, hopefully they improve, for boxings sake.

Boxing doesn't live and die on PPV sales. PPV has arguably marginalised the sport. And when fans do come back to a fight like Mayweather-Pacquiao they end up walking away shaking their heads wondering 'what the hell was that all about?'

Anyone tell me in the thread where it states PPV figures were the be all and end all ??....Or where I said it measures quality of a fighter ??

You're arguing with yourself Haz mate........

I see doping is endemic in Russian sport at the moment..Could be an Olympic ban on the way!!........

Shocking..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Anyone tell me in the thread where it states PPV figures were the be all and end all ??....Or where I said it measures quality of a fighter ??

You're arguing with yourself Haz mate........

I see doping is endemic in Russian sport at the moment..Could be an Olympic ban on the way!!........

Shocking..

Bit like USA in 1984-2000?

AdamT wrote:I like GGG, he is a good figher, but I can't ignore these numbers. They are very poor. I don't buy the excuse he isn't American either.

That's a pretty good reason to be honest, America is probably the biggest ppv market out there at the moment so its pretty reasonable to expect them not to splash out on a Kazakhstan vs a Canadian fight, and as you have said yourself, outside of hardcore fans nobody really knows him. Who did you really expect to buy it? Lets not get carried away with the ppv numbers that Floyd, Manny & DLH did, these were massive names in boxing that caught the eye of the casual fan & celebrities. Haz posted something explaining a few things and they themselves wern't expecting huge numbers. What do you put it down to? And don't roll out your usual 'MMA/UFC is taking over' nonsense I've already put that to bed.

150k is pretty modest. I would guess they were hoping for a little better. Im not sure at what point it becomes more beneficial to put a fight on ppv and narrow the viewership versus having it non ppv nd having a much higher viewership. Did they really think projecting 150k buys was preferrable to the decent numbers and exposure they were doing on HBO without it? Maybe testing the water.

Golovkin is also one of the biggest names in boxing right now. Whatver "hardcore" boxing fans means, any sort of genuine boxing fan will have heard of Golovkin. If they havent I wouldnt class them as much of a boxing fan.

sohotnot wrote:

AdamT wrote:I like GGG, he is a good figher, but I can't ignore these numbers. They are very poor. I don't buy the excuse he isn't American either.

That's a pretty good reason to be honest, America is probably the biggest ppv market out there at the moment so its pretty reasonable to expect them not to splash out on a Kazakhstan vs a Canadian fight, and as you have said yourself, outside of hardcore fans nobody really knows him. Who did you really expect to buy it? Lets not get carried away with the ppv numbers that Floyd, Manny & DLH did, these were massive names in boxing that caught the eye of the casual fan & celebrities. Haz posted something explaining a few things and they themselves wern't expecting huge numbers. What do you put it down to? And don't roll out your usual 'MMA/UFC is taking over' nonsense I've already put that to bed.

You put nothing to bed. Average UFC sells better than GGG.

catchweight wrote:150k is pretty modest. I would guess they were hoping for a little better. Im not sure at what point it becomes more beneficial to put a fight on ppv and narrow the viewership versus having it non ppv nd having a much higher viewership. Did they really think projecting 150k buys was preferrable to the decent numbers and exposure they were doing on HBO without it? Maybe testing the water.

Golovkin is also one of the biggest names in boxing right now. Whatver "hardcore" boxing fans means, any sort of genuine boxing fan will have heard of Golovkin. If they havent I wouldnt class them as much of a boxing fan.

Boxing fans & casual fans I think we are talking here and I don't think the casuals know GGG, and quite often its the casuals that get caught up in the hype and buy the ppv. Was there anything in the UK newspapers about the fight before & after? I wouldn't have expected the fight to do many ppv's in the uk if it was on ppv. I just feel Adam T is blowing a lot of hot air over this. Maybe your are right, maybe they are just testing the water, looking to build the next ppv star.

I just feel Adam T is blowing a lot of hot air over this. Maybe your are right, maybe they are just testing the water, looking to build the next ppv star

Come on man. I may have been a c..t in the past but what I have said on this thread lately is facts.

I like GGG but he is far from a star yet. Perhaps he will be in time. I hope so, because boxing needs more stars.

AdamT wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

AdamT wrote:I like GGG, he is a good figher, but I can't ignore these numbers. They are very poor. I don't buy the excuse he isn't American either.

That's a pretty good reason to be honest, America is probably the biggest ppv market out there at the moment so its pretty reasonable to expect them not to splash out on a Kazakhstan vs a Canadian fight, and as you have said yourself, outside of hardcore fans nobody really knows him. Who did you really expect to buy it? Lets not get carried away with the ppv numbers that Floyd, Manny & DLH did, these were massive names in boxing that caught the eye of the casual fan & celebrities. Haz posted something explaining a few things and they themselves wern't expecting huge numbers. What do you put it down to? And don't roll out your usual 'MMA/UFC is taking over' nonsense I've already put that to bed.

You put nothing to bed. Average UFC sells better than GGG.

Yes probably and in my opinion because he's not that well known outside of boxing circles and is not an American or fighting the next rising star of American boxing.

I put to bed your UFC/MMA is taking over boxing on another thread, quite possibly one of your own threads. I didn't see a reply from you, 3Fingers called it best post in ages. I don't see you as a MMA fan, just jumping on the UFC bandwagon and coming out with all the usual cliches of what UFC supposedly does better than boxing and that it is taking over and that boxing is going down the pan. UFC has just as many problems within the sport as boxing.

I don't mind mma, more of a boxing fan. Never seen the post and if I did, I possibly overlooked it because I was being a gobshi1te to over gobsh1tes around that time.

What sort of boxing fan hasnt heard of Golovkin by now? Couldnt be much a boxing fan if they havent heard of him irrespective of their label.

In the U.S, a ppv will generally struggle if it doesnt involve a Mexican, Peurto Rican or some sort of hispanic fighter that appeals to that demographic.

AdamT wrote:I just feel Adam T is blowing a lot of hot air over this. Maybe your are right, maybe they are just testing the water, looking to build the next ppv star

Come on man. I may have been a c..t in the past but what I have said on this thread lately is facts.

I like GGG but he is far from a star yet. Perhaps he will be in time. I hope so, because boxing needs more stars.

Nothing personal and I don't think you have been a c**t in the past, but I disagree what you posted on that other thread were facts, maybe go back and read what I wrote.

We all know GGG isn't a star yet hence he didn't have great numbers on his first ppv, nobody expected that. Do you not think if he was actually American he wouldn't be a bigger name?

Seen your post. a decent argument, but answer me this? Look for boxing ppv in the states in the last 2 few years add them up. Then add the UFC ones. Any fight that doesn't involve someone called Manny or Floyd doesn't do huge numbers.

Jon Jones does big numbers
GSP did big numbers
Anderson Silva
Ronda Rousey
Conor McGregor
Brock Lesnar done huge numbers.

Sh1t put that in the wrong thread mate.

AdamT wrote:I don't mind mma, more of a boxing fan. Never seen the post and if I did, I possibly overlooked it because I was being a gobshi1te to over gobsh1tes around that time.

Funnily enough now I think about it I think it was a reply to a post from one of the Admins so apologies to you for the confusion, but check it out I think I brought up some good points and stated my case in a decent manner.

Yes mate you did put up some good points.

I think both sports can co exist, but boxing needs fresh blood.

GGg is very good, but he isn't young.

If Anthony Joshua turns out to be the real deal, he could get big interest back in the Heavyweight divison.

[quote="catchweight"]What sort of boxing fan hasnt heard of Golovkin by now? Couldnt be much a boxing fan if they havent heard of him irrespective of their label.

I've only heard of him over the last 18 months - 2 years, I don't have time in my life to be scrolling the internet consistently for everything thats going on in boxing and thats the case for many people. I am not based in the UK and none of my friends are fight fans, boxing is not big here. I almost rely on you guys for keeping up with the boxing world

In the U.S, a ppv will generally struggle if it doesnt involve a Mexican, Peurto Rican or some sort of hispanic fighter that appeals to that demographic. [/quote]

This was my point to Adam T with regards to GGG and his fan base in the US, a no brainer in my opinion.

I agree mate just started noticing Gonzalez myself...

A lot of Eastern European neighborhoods in New York which is why he tends to fight there....

Whether he can go main stream remains to be seen.

Golovkin has become one of the biggest names in boxing over the last 2 years. I would expect anyone who classes themselves as a boxing fan to have heard of him by now. If they havent, Im not sure they are much of boxing fan at all. The idea that he isnt known outside of a hardcore group of boxing fans is plain ridiculous.

Criteria on what makes a fan is subjective...

GGG is a name but he isn't known out of the community...

That is unlikely to change....Probably because of where he's from and the fact Boxing is in decline.

AdamT wrote:Yes mate you did put up some good points.

I think both sports can co exist, but boxing needs fresh blood.

GGg is very good, but he isn't young.

If Anthony Joshua turns out to be the real deal, he could get big interest back in the Heavyweight divison.

Sometimes I feel you are signing the death knell on boxing, boxing will disappear because of the UFC and how great the UFC is. But I think we all agree boxing needs some new stars and they will emerge, its just that Floyd was massive, transcended boxing, anybody else who was a potential star just got swallowed up.

The UFC is just as corrupt as boxing, its an inhouse promotion body that decides who they want to make stars. At the moment Connor McGregor is the big name and Ireland is an emerging market, hence if you are fighting against any of his stable unless you knock them out you lose the decision. They need to build Irish fighters records to build the following in Ireland and make money. Same with womens MMA, they look for hot girls to make them into stars, Paige vanzant, Felice Herrig. Dana has always said he wants 'poster boys' in the UFC, Roy Nelson was just a bad smell that he couldn't ignore. Nick Diaz gets a 5 year ban for weed yet Vitor Belfort continually has elevated testosterone levels yet is still fighting. Dana never wanted to give Bisping a shot at Anderson Silva, still wants to make Overeem a star despite constantly losing, the list is endless but hey this is a boxing forum.

Boxing will improve back home and here when the heavy division gets interesting...

It died with Lewis....

History shows a strong heavy division invigorates the sport.