Referee's

Please for the love of (insert your own chosen deity) can we leave threads about games alone and post all the stuff about referees,good, bad or indifferent on here.

That way we may be able to discuss rugby games rather than how referee's are biased, rubbish,cheats, ruining your, my, that league.


Cheers

Good idea. Will try to stick to it myself, but don't think certain others will.

Hope to be proven wrong.

Not going to happen, nor should it. Decisions are a part of discussing the events of the game.

Scottrf wrote:Not going to happen, nor should it. Decisions are a part of discussing the events of the game.

They are, but this isn't about simply discussing officials decisions in a game thread. In fact it's about some destroying game threads, using those threads as a conduit to vent their spite. This needs to stop, and this thread is a way of doing that. It should happen, but I doubt it will.

Is that on the pro 12 threads? If it completely derails the threads fair enough, I don't tend to read them.

Scottrf wrote:Is that on the pro 12 threads? If it completely derails the threads fair enough, I don't tend to read them.

It is, and reading them will just give you a headache. The threads outside of that which do discuss refs, etc are fine, and enjoyable to read. Not so the Pro12 threads that tend to be hijacked if they involve the Provinces.

There are a small number of posters from both the regions and the provinces that derail pro12 threads regardless of if its about officials or something else, the majority of them turn into playground one-up-man-ship with each side simply blaming the other for starting it 1st. I very much doubt a thread about referee's will change that.

I doubt it will change it either. But If you don't try you don't know.

I see the scarlets are to send the authorities footage of all the dodgy Leighton Hodges decisions in the leinster v scarlets game.

Good stuff.

Leinster should do the same for the reverse a couple of weeks ago where Fiztgibbon seemed to refuse to penalise the Scarlets.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Leinster should do the same for the reverse a couple of weeks ago where Fiztgibbon seemed to refuse to penalise the Scarlets.

Yes they should if they feel they have ample video evidence. It's the failure to raise awareness of the league's shortcomings that is contributing to it's downfall.

What downfall?

Its Poopie

Chunky Norwich wrote:Its Poopie

You're welcome to your opinion, but what downfall?

Munchkin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Its Poopie

You're welcome to your opinion, but what downfall?

Its Poopie. And getting Poopie to the point of people laughing at it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Leinster should do the same for the reverse a couple of weeks ago where Fiztgibbon seemed to refuse to penalise the Scarlets.

Yes they should if they feel they have ample video evidence.  It's the failure to raise awareness of the league's shortcomings that is contributing to it's downfall.

At least you have accepted that the refs aren't bias towards the provinces now. It took a while but we got there

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Its Poopie

You're welcome to your opinion, but what downfall?

Its Poopie. And getting Poopie to the point of people laughing at it.

Again, you're welcome to your opinion, but what downfall?

Have you not seen the clip of Hitler complaining about Pro 12 refs?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Have you not seen the clip of Hitler complaining about Pro 12 refs?

Drat! Forgot about the evil dictator! No arguing against that!

Chunky again your taking your opinion and using it to arrive at a conclusion that doesn't hold up to fact

Theres no evidence of a downfall in the Pro12, in fact the opposite would appear to be true considering they were able to add Sky to their broadcasters and increase attendances to games. Surely a downfall would see a fall in attendances and/or a loss of broadcasters?

marty2086 wrote:Chunky again your taking your opinion and using it to arrive at a conclusion that doesn't hold up to fact

Theres no evidence of a downfall in the Pro12, in fact the opposite would appear to be true considering they were able to add Sky to their broadcasters and increase attendances to games. Surely a downfall would see a fall in attendances and/or a loss of broadcasters?

The league having it's own review of officials. Teams compiling lists of unacceptable decisions. Fans booing referieez off the pitch even whrn their team has won.

Its getting worse and worse.

Yeah but then you'd have to ask where currently teams don't ask for clarifcation. English teams certainly do and the international teams do. Are you really doing your job right as a coach if you're not asking? I think we'd all agree that the football Premiership is one of the most professional leagues in the world and the greatest manager there in a lot of opinions (Ferguson) used to constantly question refs and get some of them banned from reffing Man U. Is that league viable?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Chunky again your taking your opinion and using it to arrive at a conclusion that doesn't hold up to fact

Theres no evidence of a downfall in the Pro12, in fact the opposite would appear to be true considering they were able to add Sky to their broadcasters and increase attendances to games. Surely a downfall would see a fall in attendances and/or a loss of broadcasters?

The league having it's own review of officials. Teams compiling lists of unacceptable decisions.  Fans booing referieez off the pitch even whrn their team has won.

Its getting worse and worse.  

Fans will always boo officials. Some fans even boo when the calls are obviously correct...

You see the league having it's own review of officials as a negative! There's no pleasing you. It's great that this is being done, and surely the answer to your gripes.

It's only getting 'worse and worse' in your head. It's what you want to see. It's your only hope of something that is never going to happen - A B&I.

I have been at matches and actually seen people leaving the game in disbelief at what they are seeing and claiming why they are bothering when such inept refereeing is reflecting on the outcome of a rugby match. The product is poor becuase we have inept officials.

Why can't people see this ?

LordDowlais wrote:I have been at matches and actually seen people leaving the game in disbelief at what they are seeing and claiming why they are bothering when such inept refereeing is reflecting on the outcome of a rugby match. The product is poor becuase we have inept officials.

Why can't people see this ?

Because we don't have your fertile imagination?

But the question is is that different to anywhere else LD? How much complaining do you see in the football Premiership against fully professional refs?

Fans leave games early all the time, and in all games. Want to get to their transport, or whatever.

The league should always be reviewing its officials but the current one is....

'....comprehensive officiating review, focusing predominantly on the appointment of the league's assistant referees'

As for teams compiling lists of unacceptable decisions

“We are going through a process, as we do after every game,” said head coach Wayne Pivac.

“You can have an opinion, but you have to be able to back it up with facts and video and that’s what we have done.

“We will send some video away and we are just asking for clarification, so if we are in those positions going forward hopefully the outcomes are a bit more favourable.”

So it happens after every game, its just highlighted on this occasion because of the added controversy and they can be better prepared

As a few on here have stated, they have seen incidents at games and been outraged only to see things differently once they have seen highlights or the whole match back. Outraged home fans aren't the best barometer for a refs performance

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have been at matches and actually seen people leaving the game in disbelief at what they are seeing and claiming why they are bothering when such inept refereeing is reflecting on the outcome of a rugby match. The product is poor becuase we have inept officials.

Why can't people see this ?

Because we don't have your fertile imagination?

It's not my imagination, I have witnessed it with my own eyes and ears. I have actually been at games where people have left and said they would not bother next time because they are fed up. The last time I saw it was at the Ospreys V Munster game, and it was not just one or two, there were loads of them all up in arms because of the inept refereeing. Please do not take the mick as I have witnessed it first hand.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have been at matches and actually seen people leaving the game in disbelief at what they are seeing and claiming why they are bothering when such inept refereeing is reflecting on the outcome of a rugby match. The product is poor becuase we have inept officials.

Why can't people see this ?

Because we don't have your fertile imagination?

It's not my imagination, I have witnessed it with my own eyes and ears. I have actually been at games where people have left and said they would not bother next time because they are fed up. The last time I saw it was at the Ospreys V Munster game, and it was not just one or two, there were loads of them all up in arms because of the inept refereeing. Please do not take the mick as I have witnessed it first hand.

I haven't noticed a huge drop off in attendance at Scarlets. Maybe Scarlets fans are victims of mass hysteria? It can happen, I suppose. Especially in Wales, with the water and everything.

Munchkin wrote:I haven't noticed a huge drop off in attendance at Scarlets. Maybe Scarlets fans are victims of mass hysteria? It can happen, I suppose.

I do not get to go to too many Scarlets matches. It's too far to travel, and now that the holiday season is over I have no reason to go down to my caravan in Tenby so I do not bother, so I cannot speak for them, but I do go to a lot of Blues games, and I also try to watch Ospreys and trust me, there are a lot of disgruntled fans when it comes to the standard of refereeing in our league. Not just me and chunky on here.

Ok a genuine question.
How do we improve the standard?
Full time refs? Who pays them? Where do they train? More ref swaps with other leagues?

I Know, LD. Might be as many as 6 of you. Maybe as much as 20. I suppose that isn't enough to qualify as mass hysteria. Rules out the water as well, methinks. Do you all drink in the same pub?

Munchkin wrote:I Know, LD. Might be as many as 6 of you. Maybe as much as 20. I suppose that isn't enough to qualify as mass hysteria. Rules out the water as well, methinks. Do you all drink in the same pub?

Why ? Why the sarcasm ? Why ruin a perfectly good debate by turning it into a bun fight ? I want to talk about referees and how we think the situation could be improved, you just want to take the p1ss as usual.

carpet baboon wrote:Ok a genuine question.
How do we improve the standard?
Full time refs? Who pays them? Where do they train? More ref swaps with other leagues?

Well for a start I would have fully pro refs. I would get them all up to speed and as close as possible to the fitness of the players, I would have them all employed by the league, not the unions, and I would have them all driving the same protocols and all working to the same mandates that the league sets out. You see, for instance, the WRU could have their refs looking at certain aspects of the game, and the IRFU could have their refs looking at something else. I would want one employer with one hymn sheet.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I Know, LD. Might be as many as 6 of you. Maybe as much as 20. I suppose that isn't enough to qualify as mass hysteria. Rules out the water as well, methinks. Do you all drink in the same pub?

Why ? Why the sarcasm ? Why ruin a perfectly good debate by turning it into a bun fight ? I want to talk about referees and how we think the situation could be improved, you just want to take the p1ss as usual.

Because I can't take your claim seriously. The evidence contradicts your claim. I can also understand why fans might walk out on Ospreys and Cardiff this season. They haven't exactly lit up the league, have they? Although Ospreys will get back on track no doubt.

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I Know, LD. Might be as many as 6 of you. Maybe as much as 20. I suppose that isn't enough to qualify as mass hysteria. Rules out the water as well, methinks. Do you all drink in the same pub?

Why ? Why the sarcasm ? Why ruin a perfectly good debate by turning it into a bun fight ? I want to talk about referees and how we think the situation could be improved, you just want to take the p1ss as usual.

Because I can't take your claim seriously. The evidence contradicts your claim. I can also understand why fans might walk out on Ospreys and Cardiff this season. They haven't exactly lit up the league, have they? Although Ospreys will get back on track no doubt.

I am not doing this with you. Go find somebody else who will de-rail the thread and have a bun fight with you.

LordDowlais wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Ok a genuine question.
How do we improve the standard?
Full time refs? Who pays them? Where do they train? More ref swaps with other leagues?

Well for a start I would have fully pro refs. I would get them all up to speed and as close as possible to the fitness of the players, I would have them all employed by the league, not the unions, and I would have them all driving the same protocols and all working to the same mandates that the league sets out. You see, for instance, the WRU could have their refs looking at certain aspects of the game, and the IRFU could have their refs looking at something else. I would want one employer with one hymn sheet.

I can agree with this, but cost and resources would be an issue. Resources certainly would be an issue.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I Know, LD. Might be as many as 6 of you. Maybe as much as 20. I suppose that isn't enough to qualify as mass hysteria. Rules out the water as well, methinks. Do you all drink in the same pub?

Why ? Why the sarcasm ? Why ruin a perfectly good debate by turning it into a bun fight ? I want to talk about referees and how we think the situation could be improved, you just want to take the p1ss as usual.

Because I can't take your claim seriously. The evidence contradicts your claim. I can also understand why fans might walk out on Ospreys and Cardiff this season. They haven't exactly lit up the league, have they? Although Ospreys will get back on track no doubt.

I am not doing this with you. Go find somebody else who will de-rail the thread and have a bun fight with you.

Ah, it's getting close to your quitting time. I know ye too well

Munchkin wrote:I can agree with this, but cost and resources would be an issue. Resources certainly would be an issue.

Well, I suppose we would have to increase the league fees to pay for it. I dunno, each team pays 100k each, thats £1.2 million for referees. Does that seen fair enough to you ? Or do you think it is too much ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I can agree with this, but cost and resources would be an issue. Resources certainly would be an issue.

Well, I suppose we would have to increase the league fees to pay for it. I dunno, each team pays 100k each, thats £1.2 million for referees. Does that seen fair enough to you ? Or do you think it is too much ?

It would depend on refs wages. It would be very expensive, I think, but I also think it would be the Unions that pay out, as they do now. Unless you're suggesting the teams pay top up? I think it could be doable, but then it still comes down to resources.

Has anyone ever seen an actual bun fight, with people throwing real buns?

Does anyone know how much a professional ref gets paid?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Has anyone ever seen an actual bun fight, with people throwing real buns?

Buns were too valuable as a kid. Certainly had food fights with all the stuff we didn't like though

LordDowlais wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Ok a genuine question.
How do we improve the standard?
Full time refs? Who pays them? Where do they train? More ref swaps with other leagues?

Well for a start I would have fully pro refs. I would get them all up to speed and as close as possible to the fitness of the players, I would have them all employed by the league, not the unions, and I would have them all driving the same protocols and all working to the same mandates that the league sets out. You see, for instance, the WRU could have their refs looking at certain aspects of the game, and the IRFU could have their refs looking at something else. I would want one employer with one hymn sheet.

In this framework would we still refs taking charge on "home" soil?

Munchkin wrote:Does anyone know how much a professional ref gets paid?

Some of them make extra for international games and European games though, I do not think we could get an exact £.

Munchkin wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Has anyone ever seen an actual bun fight, with people throwing real buns?

Buns were to valuable as a kid. Certainly had food fights with all the stuff we didn't like though

It does seem like a waste of perfectly good buns.

carpet baboon wrote:In this framework would we still refs taking charge on "home" soil?

If they are fully professional and impartial then that should not be an issue. Refs who ref people who are from the same organisation is my issue, their nationality isn't, as long as they are good enough I could not give two hoots where they came from. At least they would all have just one organisation sanctioning things and pushing the same mandates and protocols.

Chunky Norwich wrote:I see the scarlets are to send the authorities footage of all the dodgy Leighton Hodges decisions in the leinster v scarlets game.

Good stuff.

Can't be good for his self esteem. But watching that game I would be backing the decision if I was a Scarlets supporter... Heck I'll support the decision anyway if we can see it across the board. In that game I thought Hodges was intimidated by Leinster's pedigree and their crowd.

LordDowlais wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:In this framework would we still refs taking charge on "home" soil?

If they are fully professional and impartial then that should not be an issue. Refs who ref people who are from the same organisation is my issue, their nationality isn't, as long as they are good enough I could not give two hoots where they came from. At least they would all have just one organisation sanctioning things and pushing the same mandates and protocols.

The reason for the question was more to do with travel, as always working away would ratchet up the cost