Surprise English Selections

Not another thread to discuss the merits of seasoned EPS players but more for fans of clubs to suggest players coming up through the ranks who might be bolters for a new coach in the future.

Ill start with Exeter Chiefs,

Alec Hepburn who signed for the Chiefs from Australian side Perth Glory, he's only played this season but his all action displays (especially from a prop) have made people really stand up and take notice, certainly has the speed and breakdown work of a flanker and has made countless line breaks already this season despite it being his first season in the Prem....... this is what Rob Baxter has to say about him when he signed:

“Alec was in a bit of a strange rugby situation. He played in the England Under-20s World Cup-winning side with some of our lads, was involved with Wasps and on loan at London Welsh. He was there with Mitch Lees and part of the squad that went on to win promotion. “He went to Australia for personal family reasons, but when we knew he was coming back to the UK we had a good look at him in those Championship games and had a chat with our lads who played with him for England Under-20s and it all came back very positively that he’s a young player we feel has got a bright future ahead of him.

Don Armand - despite not being a young'un hes got super rugby experience and holds English nationality through his Zimbabwean routes. Has played Lock and Flanker in the past for the chiefs but is now packing down at number 8 and has scored 3 tries this season. Heis currently keeping out last seasons player of the season Thomas Waldrom. Would offer a completely different impact than Morgan or Vunipola as his main assets are breakdown work and speed around the pitch as well as being a jumper in the lineout.

Don Armand is playing very well...but i'd like to keep away from foreigners.

The WC has made us a laughing stock and bringing more and more in just makes it even more of a mockery.

So lets just focus on Dave Ewers, Nathan Hughes etc

But to answer your question I still have a lot of faith in quite a few of the falcons players. Specifically Chris Harris (13) and Simon Hammersley (15)

But its difficult to look good in the current shambles.

Is Hepburn EQP?

He played in the U20 World Cup winning side so I assume so

Tiger/Chief wrote:He played in the U20 World Cup winning side so I assume so

By itself that does not make him EQP. While he may have been back then, not guaranteed as regs for age group not the same, born in Perth and resident there for the last year, he would now only be EQP from ancestors I believe.

Can we not find some ENGLISH players.....?

Thought you wanted Ewers and Kvesic in your team GF.

I know I sound a bit hypocritical but every player lately seems to be foreign.

Way of the world, very few are truely 'foreign' for me.

True

GeordieFalcon wrote:Can we not find some ENGLISH players.....?

Way to go - go get some hairy arrssssed bruisers and feck the culture cowpat and the walk into Twickenham - And while your at it select a different fecking song from swing low, the one we all sang in the changing room in the 70's - There are many heart thumping spine chilling English songs far more worthy.

To be fair to Hepburn he was in the Wasps academy from a early age! For all we know he may well have 2 English Parents!

Then I welcome him open armed.

England team 2016
1) Vunipola, 2) Hartley, 3) Hepburn
4) Mike williams, 5) Armond
6) Ewers, 7) Kvesic, 8) Vunipola
9) Dickson, 10) Steenson
12) Barritt, 13) Manu
11) Roko, 14) Yarde, 15) D.Armitage (?)

Welly wrote: England team 2016
1) Vunipola, 2) Hartley, 3) Hepburn
4) Mike williams, 5) Armond
6) Ewers, 7) Kvesic, 8) Vunipola
9) Dickson, 10) Steenson
12) Barritt, 13) Manu
11) Roko, 14) Yarde, 15) D.Armitage (?)

So where was Dickson born?

Germany

Hepburn's a loosehead, maybe slot Scott Wilson in at 3

Poopie yeh Slid Wilson in there i guess.

Nick Auterac has a very bright future and so I am tipping him for national selection.

I am also still very much persuaded by Christian Wade.

And finally the old hairy himself strait in at number 7 is the fatty boy Armitage.

It is well worth remembering that our last world class 7 (Neil Back) also had tremendous difficulty persuading the selectors or his worth and did not nail his shirt until after the 97 lions. Perhaps Armitage has a future yet?

Brendan O`Connor a genuine 7 NZ version and already qualified,playing for
Leicester,coached by among others Aron Mauger[think Kronfeld,McCaw].
England could have done worse than pick Easter and Thomas the Tank for
RWC squad.OOPs they did!!!

You think Morgan and Vunipola were bad choices?

Vunipola No,Morgan had been injured Pre=RWC,and was not 100% in it.
As Jonnie Wilkinson says NO player want`s to miss a RWC,BUT if it comes
off fine.
Folau,Slipper,Anscombe,were all carrying injuries which need surgery,Carter
was carrying an injury too.
You tell me if it effected there play Folau definitely,Carter v SA was unable to
run freely.Hence the conservative game plan,Morgan I think so yes.

Their play you mean? Morgan didn't look at his best but we've heard McCaw never plays at 100% so it is a balance at times. Hindsights a wonderful thing but not many would have picked Waldrom over Morgan as he isn't as good.

Was`nt Waldron voted player of the year2014?thought read that somewhere when
viewing reports on Exeter2014.
Both the "Pink Panthers " were good playing for Crusaders/Hurricanes some
years ago.
Also reading one of the papers of his possible recall to the squad,incidentally there
were reports of severe injuries.
To many key players did they all fully recover?most were forwards I think.

He was player of the year, good player still but not a patch on Morgan and Vunipola. Again it's about balance. You make a call on whether the player is fit or not. I would suspect that after the first week of any tournament there's not many players who are 100%.

emack2 wrote:Brendan O`Connor a genuine 7 NZ version and already qualified,playing for
Leicester,coached by among others Aron Mauger[think Kronfeld,McCaw].
England could have done worse than pick Easter and Thomas the Tank for
RWC squad.OOPs they did!!!

No thank you. Lets stick with Fraser, Kvesic, Wallace or Clifford.

kingelderfield wrote:

I am also still very much persuaded by Christian Wade.

Totally. I know people mention him defensively...but everytime I see him in an attack situation its just a pleasure to watch. Surely there has to be a place for him, even just in the flipping squad.

Daly is also putting his hand up for selection & has the added bonus of a massive boot for long range penalties.
I hear Joseph might be back playing in December so that may be a tasty match up against Daly when Wasps meet Bath in Europe that month.

Absolutely.

We are not short of players...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Absolutely.

We are not short of players...

Just coaches with international experience.

Yeah coaches are a problem. Ive said it before International experience doesn't bother me...as long as they have substantial club / European experience.

Back to the players...wheres the 12's with some size. Im all for a passing running game...but i'd still like some power somewhere in the backs, and if we put out some of the names on here...there isn't much.

I know that he had a poor 2014/15 6N, but Burrell got into the squad on the back of his performances for Saints at 12. He is not back to his best, but there are signs of improvement. He seems to have a bit more pace than last year, he is passing well, trouble is he needs to catch it to pass it and he keeps dropping it. He is getting some lousy passes though.

What is Sam Hill playing like for Chiefs, he looked good. Stephenson although talented is lightweight by comparison.

Burrell was excellent at 13 in the previous 6n. But pretty poor in the following one at 12.

The recent review I read on Sam Hills performances were basically...he is the rock doing all the basics right that is allowing the rest to make their names.

So he should definitely be looked at for the 6n...at the expense of Barritt!

Stephenson although talented is lightweight by comparison.

That's a point we are making more and more about all the backs coming through....

Re the coaches, I think I'm more interested in proven winning experience then just International. Be that league, Euro or Int, but if a coach has a proven winning back ground then that's what we want!

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I know that he had a poor 2014/15 6N, but Burrell got into the squad on the back of his performances for Saints at 12. He is not back to his best, but there are signs of improvement. He seems to have a bit more pace than last year, he is passing well, trouble is he needs to catch it to pass it and he keeps dropping it. He is getting some lousy passes though.

What is Sam Hill playing like for Chiefs, he looked good. Stephenson although talented is lightweight by comparison.

Not helping Burrell that most of the passes to him are either terrible or off ruck ball so slow he has half the opposition pack waiting for him. Saints aren't using him well imo.

Also comparing his 6Ns form to that of the 12's at the RWC he was actually still better then them!

Luther is not playing well at the moment. But that young Sale centre that shredded the quins midfield looked special. Very young but can pick a good line and has pace making him very hard to stop. He played for England age group but heard he also played for Scotland.

englandglory4ever wrote:Luther is not playing well at the moment.  But that young Sale centre that shredded the quins midfield looked special. Very young but can pick a good line and has pace making him very hard to stop. He played for England age group but heard he also played for Scotland.

Are you talking about Sam James who I believe is English or Will Addison who was born in Scotland, not sure about his parentage. I missed the game so cannot comment.

englandglory4ever wrote:Luther is not playing well at the moment.  But that young Sale centre that shredded the quins midfield looked special. Very young but can pick a good line and has pace making him very hard to stop. He played for England age group but heard he also played for Scotland.

Burrell looked very good at the weekend, did you see the game?

Here you go, I'll call it....Nathan Earle from Saracens

http://www.saracens.com/trainers/nathan-earle/

Didn't hear much about him last year......think he was injured???....but was very impressed with his u20 performances

So there you go, another full international I thank you.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Luther is not playing well at the moment.  But that young Sale centre that shredded the quins midfield looked special. Very young but can pick a good line and has pace making him very hard to stop. He played for England age group but heard he also played for Scotland.

Are you talking about Sam James  who I believe is English or Will Addison who was born in Scotland, not sure about his parentage. I missed the game so cannot comment.

It was Sam James. Very impressed with him.

1 good game, let's not go crazy

yappysnap wrote:1 good game, let's not go crazy

I have to disagree....Kevin Sinfield for England

http://www.yorkshirecarnegie.com/news/27867.php

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Are you talking about Sam James  who I believe is English or Will Addison who was born in Scotland, not sure about his parentage. I missed the game so cannot comment.

What make's you think Addison is born in Scotland? Sharks website has him born in Cumbria. Don't think he's up to international level, but a good club player.

kingelderfield wrote:Here you go, I'll call it....Nathan Earle from Saracens

http://www.saracens.com/trainers/nathan-earle/

Didn't hear much about him last year......think he was injured???....but was very impressed with his u20 performances

So there you go, another full international I thank you.

I'd go with that, Earle is a very special player, I think he came 2nd to Pollard in the U20 player of the year. Bags of gas, a great step and powerful. He was out all of last season with an achilles issue I think, hopefully he'll get an AP start soon as the boy could be a real star.

But we have Nowell, May and Watson already well along the road.

Those three should be the focus...until Earle is pulling up trees for Sarries week in week out demanding to be selected. Certainly one for the Saxons if he does.

I still think Wade has some part to play. I just love watching him when he gets the ball....he brings excitement like JSD used to.

This is one of the problems with having such a big choice of selection (and its growing). Its like being in a sweetie shop...you see one thing you like, and no sooner have you seen that, but your eyes are drawn to something else.

Sorry, I know this thread is actually about "other possible selections". Ill shut up now

I thought Earle generally looked good going forward, but despite looking solid and powerful I though he looked scared of contact situations. He seemed to actively shie away from tackling, and dropped the ball a few times when more worried about being tackled.

He reminded me so much of Tom Varndell.

Wade really struggles in the air and in defence, I just think he has too many issues to make that next step up. You need to have more of a complete game these days or a player can cost us the game.

Daly has some real issues too in defence but not as bad. He missed 4 tackles against a poor Leinster backline last week, he really needs to sharpen up.

What about Josh Beaumont, very athletic in stature. Possibly not as much grunt as Vunipola and Morhan but looks like a Kieran Reed style 8! Wouldn't mind the running game option being in the squad

Its all about balance for me Tiger/C

If we have some big ol grunt in the front 5 then you can afford more mobility in the back row (ie Beaumont type players).

If we're shy of grunt upfront then we need some beef somewhere in the pack.

I don't buy this rubbish about 100% lightweight packs.

People point to NZ as an example...but forget that players like Retallick is 19st plus...Sam Whitelock is 18st. Kaino is just shy of 18st..etc etc They're mobile...but they still have that weight behind them.

The England WC pack tried to emulate them and failed massively because of that.

Players like Kitchener...now that's what we need. A lineout man probably better than laws...yet still very mobile and has probably a stone plus on Lawes.

It makes a difference.