World Tour Finals (WTF!) 2015 - Day 4 (was Day2 and Day3!)

First topic message reminder :

The ATP website seems to have evolved and become AI-enabled and may not show the correct day when you click on the link, so here are a variety of links

PDF version - PDF version
Day 4 link - Day 4 link (may work)
Live Scores on the ATP Web Site - ATP Live Scores
Barclays Live Scores - Barclays Live Scores


MotD - Murray v Nadal.

slashermcguirk wrote:Well played federer first of all but my goodness that was horrendous stuff from djokovic. It was like Novak just checked out in the 2nd set, worst I have seen from him in a long time. I suppose it proves he is human!

Serving second when Federer is serving well nearly always gets under Novak's skin.

Jahu wrote:HMM, sorry to hear that, hope you can catch the highlights on youtube.

Still friends?

Yes, but I think we should see other people too.

HM Murdock wrote:

Jahu wrote:HMM, sorry to hear that, hope you can catch the highlights on youtube.

Still friends?

Yes, but I think we should see other people too.

Sure, I guess after so many years of marriage, you need some new kinky options to spice it up a bit

socal1976 wrote:Can't wait for Novak v. the Rog. I think Novak takes it in two close sets that are decided by one break or a tiebreak. Roger is already complaining about the surface. As predictably are his fans. Maybe I have more faith in Roger than many of his fans. I will say this Novak on current form should eventually wear Roger down on a surface and conditions that really suit him. I mean he has won this tournament a number of times now on this surface. But we are saying that about a lot of tournaments nowadays.

I hope the wait was worthwhile. Did you see Fed's slices landing with very low bounces that work really well on this surface. He really meant it when he said he likes this surface. No one can blame you for your optimism in Djoko's favour. But I had a hunch tonight Fed has something big to prove, although i didn't expect the old man to still have it on his racket to completely destabilise Djokovic, mentally and game-wise.

Looking at those hit points on the Federer BH since the new racquet! Whoa!

Dw Hmm, one day itll be split between sky and bt and youll have to pay for both...

HM Murdock wrote:That head-to-head is proving very stubborn!

Can't comment on the game as I didn't get to watch it, but it seems the old guy can still shake a bit!

From Novak's perspective, if he's going to suffer a loss then a round robin match is the one to do it in.

Yeah, Fed's going to get into 2016 level at worst.

I'd be shocked if Djokovic isn't in the semi. Murray will probably look to throw it tomorrow!

Oh nooo, Andy-Nadal at 2pm tomorrow.

Looks like Federer put his towel out first.

Swiss, German. What's the difference?

Not the most thrilling of contests, but some very decent quality from both in the first set.

Hardly a calamitous loss for Novak, but here endeth a couple of more streaks - and once again at the hands of Federer.

Previously undefeated indoors since 2012 ; and a run of 23 successive matches won, until tonight

Federer has chalked up two more wins than anyone else this season v the World No.1 (and still the bookies clear title favourite here in London, surely....) ; which is still only three victories in all, but interestingly they all came in straight sets.

Djoko said at the press, we are not told where to sit, so first guy out chooses which bench.

But since towels have names, organizers should of told players where to sit, or at least ask the GOAT where would his highness like to sit, since it will be him first walking on court, and then put towels with names on benches

bogbrush wrote:

Swiss, German. What's the difference?

Ask an Austrian

bogbrush wrote:Fed looks dead 'ard with his stubble face. Obviously that's his new tactic versus Novak.

I'm trying that look as well - now I look like Jeremy Corbyn.

bogbrush wrote:Looks like Federer put his towel out first.

Swiss, German. What's the difference?

Neutrality?

lags72 wrote:Not the most thrilling of contests, but some very decent quality from both in the first set.

Hardly a calamitous loss for Novak, but here endeth a couple of more streaks - and once again at the hands of Federer.

Previously undefeated indoors since 2012 ; and a run of 23 successive matches won, until tonight

Federer has chalked up two more wins than anyone else this season v the World No.1 (and still the bookies clear title favourite here in London, surely....) ; which is still only three victories in all, but interestingly they all came in straight sets.

I thought it was 39?

I heard it was ginger

Was this a Djoko tactic to be second in the group?

Have I miscounted legendkiller....??

I made it 23 dating back to his previous loss (again to that pesky Swiss OAP) at Cincy, but my maths must be wrong.

You guys are talking about different things!

LK indoors run, Lags unbeaten run.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Fed looks dead 'ard with his stubble face. Obviously that's his new tactic versus Novak.

I'm trying that look as well - now I look like Jeremy Corbyn.

Are you going to start reading out other people's posts?

Also this was the end of 15 Master matches won from Djoko.

Last lost indoors in Paris 2012 from Querrey.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Looks like Federer put his towel out first.

Swiss, German. What's the difference?

Neutrality?

Well, officially.

Here's to many more years!

Thanks for clarifying LuvSports !  Otherwise things could have veered into lies, damn lies & statistics ......

bogbrush wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Fed looks dead 'ard with his stubble face. Obviously that's his new tactic versus Novak.

I'm trying that look as well - now I look like Jeremy Corbyn.

Are you going to start reading out other people's posts?

CAS would like to say "Here's to many more years!"

CAS wrote:Here's to many more years!

Methinks, Federer would take less years on tour, but a couple more slam trophies in his collection.

Djokovic was imperious defeating Nishikori 6-1 6-1, but soundly beaten by the old man 7-5 6-2.  

Djokovic has now lost 6 times this year with Federer beating him three times - and each time in straight sets (two sets).

2015 so far head to heads

Djokovic versus Federer  4:3
Djokovic versus Murray  6:1
Djokovic versus Wawrinka 3:1
Djokovic versus Karlovic 0:1

So only Federer has beaten Djokovic more than once this year.  
Also worth noting:
Djokovic versus Nadal 3:0

2015 Roger Federer Head to Heads
Federer vs Kohlschreiber 3–0
Federer vs Djokovic 3:4
Federer vs Kevin Anderson 2:0
Federer vs Andy Murray 2:0
Federer vs Milos Raonic 2:0
Federer vs Stan Wawrinka 2:1
Federer vs Ivo Karlovic 1:0
Federer vs Rafael Nadal 1:0

I hope Bogbrush had a pleasant business meeting /whatever kept him busy enough to give up his corporate tickets; during the evening.

'So you'd like us to sell 30% of our stake?'
'COME ON'
'I'm sorry what?'
'No nothing, yes, what? Ah yes, sure, sell it go right ahead.'
'Is everything ok?'
'I could have been there, what the hell am I doing here?! Who knew my jinx would work so well, the only baked goods Djokovic will get is in his bakery in Serbia after he gets knocked out in the group stages.'
'Umm, nice doing business; perhaps next time we can deal with you during the second week of the French Open, that way we can be sure Federer won't be playing'
'F*** &*£'

You've been watching far too many (B) movies IMBL.

lags72 wrote:You've been watching far too many (B) movies IMBL.

Yeah, I really think I need to return those 'Federer vs Roddick- Head To Head Highlights Reel' back to the store.

It Must Be Love wrote:

lags72 wrote:You've been watching far too many (B) movies IMBL.

Yeah, I really think I need to return those 'Federer vs Roddick- Head To Head Highlights Reel' back to the store.

They still do VHS?

Blockbuster died back when Rodbrick still had a decent h2h sadly...

Cruel!

Actually, I hate corporate entertainment events. I only go every blue moon and I'm way too busy right now.


What of Murray / Nadal? Looks like the winner gets Djokovic so this might be a very poor standard match.

I would back Murray personally, which would ironically give Federer Stan or Nadal in the semis, which is hardly a decent prize, and Novak Murray...

Good win for Fed - he is still giving Novak more trouble than just about anyone.  Agree that if this were the final, Novak would have been better, but still a good win.

The court must be quite slow, as I have seen hardly any net play - even Fed's match against Berdych and the bits I just saw from today's match were mostly played from the baseline.

Fed is now likely to win the group, which gives him relatively high chance of playing Nadal in the SF I think, which is not so good for him.  I would not be surprised to see Novak vs Rafa final, with Novak likely winning that one quite easily.

summerblues wrote:The court must be quite slow, as I have seen hardly any net play - even Fed's match against Berdych and the bits I just saw from today's match were mostly played from the baseline.

Listen to the first 10-12 minutes of Koenig/Goodall on ATP stream covering this match and their observations. They also mention that Nadal has also stated an indoor court like O2 should be quicker. If you have ESPN3, you can listen to their comments in the Replay.

Fed should let Ninja win in 2 sets and send Djoko packing for Monaco.

Ninja needs a little confidence boost, Fed does not need that win.

lags72 wrote:Thanks for clarifying LuvSports !  Otherwise things could have veered into lies, damn lies & statistics ......

Indeed it was wire crossing, but what the hey. Let's have a disagreement. Might have more fight in it than some of the participants at the WTF

IF.........

Federe did lose in 2 to Nishikori and Djokovic beat Berdych in 2, then we have

Federer W2 L1 4-2 (sets)
Djokovic W2 L1 (4-2)
Nishikori W2 L1 (4-3)

Couple of questions

- I assume that puts Nishikori out, yes?
- How do Federer & Djokovic get separated? Is it H2h or games?

EDIT I got it; Federer would top the group because of the h2h. Actually, that means Federer has already secured the win of the group if I'm correct. Doesn't matter much, Nadal or Murray aren't a lot different here I think.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

lags72 wrote:Thanks for clarifying LuvSports !  Otherwise things could have veered into lies, damn lies & statistics ......

Indeed it was wire crossing, but what the hey. Let's have a disagreement. Might have more fight in it than some of the participants at the WTF

Still reeling at Stan's attitude. At least Berdych has competed and looked upset at losing. Little Daveed might yet have a part to play in this event.

If my maths is correct the only way that Berdych can have a hope is to win in straight sets against Djoko and then hope Fed beats Nishi.
I think I'm right in saying that a straight sets defeat for Djoko against Berdych will put Djoko out whatever happens. But I can't see Djoko slipping up again.

bogbrush wrote:IF.........

Federe did lose in 2 to Nishikori and Djokovic beat Berdych in 2, then we have

Federer W2 L1 4-2 (sets)
Djokovic W2 L1 (4-2)
Nishikori W2 L1 (4-3)

Couple of questions

- I assume that puts Nishikori out, yes?
- How do Federer & Djokovic get separated? Is it H2h or games?

Very unlikely to happen but yes Nishikori would be out. As for Federer/Djokovic if still the same rules as in 2009 it would be on percentage of games won.

It's h2h

http://www.barclaysatpworldtourfinals.com/en/event/semifinal-qualifying-procedure

2009 happened because 3 of them (Murray, Federer, JMDP) were tied and had each beaten each other, so h2h was neutered and sets happened to be tied, so it went to games.

Yes correct it's h2h as Nishikori would only be 4-3 in sets. One fact from 2009 was that every match in the Federer/Del Potro/Murray/Verdasco group went to 3 sets. Only one across both groups this year so far.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Fed looks dead 'ard with his stubble face. Obviously that's his new tactic versus Novak.

I'm trying that look as well - now I look like Jeremy Corbyn.

Are you going to start reading out other people's posts?

CAS would like to say "Here's to many more years!"

It Must Be Love wrote:

lags72 wrote:You've been watching far too many (B) movies IMBL.

Yeah, I really think I need to return those 'Federer vs Roddick- Head To Head Highlights Reel' back to the store.

   
I have to salute both of these exchanges. Genuine laughs raised by both.

How a Federer win (or is it a Novak defeat?) seems to lift the forum spirits!

The win puts Federer in the semifinals of WTF for the 13th time in 14 appearances.

Djoko had not lost at the ATP Finals since 2011, won last three.

Murray v Nadal promises to be interesting and tantalizing. Close three sets is what I expect.

Wawrinka may have better attitude this evening. We should ask Mirka to be in the stands and assist Stan the Man!

I am going to give up predicting after getting it so wrong last night.

Murray in 2 sets; one close, one not.


See what I did there?

Not surprise at the result, above average Federer beats below par Djokovic. I said earlier that my theory of Federer winning the minor matches predicted a win for him in this one.

Key stats FEd converting B/P at 50% (4/8) , Fed hitting 67% of first serves, and Djokovic winning a mere 33% (6/18) of second serve points.

Fed quote: "My game is to mix it up, change up the spins. His game is to press you away."

At the moment Fed-Djok does look a likely final; however a Fed-Rafa semi might throw a spanner into that.