The Decline In Crowds At Munster Matches Was Wholly Predictable

by Chunky Norwich Tue 17 Nov 2015, 5:13 pm

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/the-decline-in-crowds-at-munster-matches-was-wholly-predictable/316134

Only 7.200 supporters attended Munster's victory over Ulster in the Guinness Pro12 two weeks ago. Afterwards, Anthony Foley bemoaned the paltry attendance.

He told the Irish Independent;

It is disappointing that the crowd was what it was. The umbilical chord has always been there between Munster and our supporters. It's important people come and support us.

You've got to come and sample it. Watching it on TV is only armchair stuff - you've got to come here and feel it. It's important for Limerick that everyone comes out and supports the game. It's a big stadium that needs filling and it's a great atmosphere.
For Saturday's Heineken Cup opener against Treviso, the crowd was bigger but not by a whole lot.

What to make of this?

Observing the fervour of their supporters during the noughties, it was easy to assume that the red hordes have been travelling to Munster games since the earliest days of the oval game (as George Hook might phrase it).

The truth is that Munster's success in the professional era pre-dates the bulk of their following jumping on board - not the other way around.

With Munster now struggling to compete with the top sides in Europe, a large portion of that support seems to be drifting away. We asked historian Dr. Liam O'Callaghan, the author of Rugby in Munster: a social and cultural history for his assessment of this trend.

Last year, we wrote about Munster's first ever match in the Heineken Cup back in November 1995. O'Callaghan was there that day as Munster pipped Swansea thanks to late winning try by Shannon full back Pat Murray.

Thomond Park was only half-full and the chatter on the terrace was not about Munster and their chances in this new-fangled competition but about the upcoming AIL games. The main concern was that one of these Munster players might pick up an injury and miss a genuinely important match.

There were a few thousand at it, there was no real fuss about it, and everybody in the crowd was just talking about the club fixtures of the previous weekend. This Munster thing was just a gentle distraction from the much more important business of AIL fixtures.

The attendance was such at the stadium that both of us viewed the game by following the play quite easily by walking around the game to follow where the action was. It was quite easy to position oneself behind the goals at Conversion time , in a vain effort to be photographed... In terms of hype around the game, for us as supporters, we were more inquisitive as to how the new competition would take off, considering it was at a time when the AIL was the be all and end all in Irish competition terms.
O'Callaghan says the drop in Munster's attendances in recent years was wholly predictable. A transient fanbase was attracted to Munster because of their success in the last decade and now that success has disappeared they are disappearing too.

Firstly, it's no great surprise. The crowds were attracted first and foremost by success. And in the last six or seven years, that's kind of fallen away. And we're seeing crowds falling away as well.
Pre-professionalism, Munster participated in the dowdy and unglamorous inter-provincial championship every winter. This competition was accompanied by resounding public disinterest (that Ulster won it every year from 1984 to 1994 may have contributed to the southern media's lukewarm attitude to the competition). It was barely any glitzier than the Railway Cup.

If you had a touring side coming from Australia and New Zealand, then you might get a big crowd but the old inter-provincial championship was a really unloved competition, a few men and his dog used to show up to watch it. The real hardcore support went to club football... that's where you got the crowds. The Munster phenomenon only took off in the professional era so there was always something new-fangled about it in the first instance.

Given that the Munster phenomenon is relatively recent, you see a lot of flexibility around demand on the supporters side, so the entrenched loyalties that older football clubs in England would have going back 150 years may not apply to the same extent.
Will the decline in the crowds at Thomond Park continue? Well, the level of success enjoyed in the mid-noughties is unlikely to return to Munster in the short-term. Ireland's provincial teams are struggling to keep pace with the monied French outfits.

No other team - apart from the other provinces - is so dependant on the players it can produce in its immediate geographical area. If you compare that to the Toulon team that won the Heineken Cup last year, they had only one player from the city of Toulon... I really think the bar has been raised in the last few years and the Irish provincial structure and business model can't really compete.

by GavinDragon Tue 17 Nov 2015, 5:17 pm

Very interesting read.

by Pot Hale Tue 17 Nov 2015, 5:50 pm

Only 7.200 supporters attended Munster's victory over Ulster in the Guinness Pro12 two weeks ago. Afterwards, Anthony Foley bemoaned the paltry attendance.

He told the Irish Independent:
"It is disappointing that the crowd was what it was. The umbilical chord has always been there between Munster and our supporters. It's important people come and support us. You've got to come and sample it. Watching it on TV is only armchair stuff - you've got to come here and feel it. It's important for Limerick that everyone comes out and supports the game. It's a big stadium that needs filling and it's a great atmosphere."

For Saturday's Heineken Cup opener against Treviso, the crowd was bigger but not by a whole lot.

What to make of this?

Observing the fervour of their supporters during the noughties, it was easy to assume that the red hordes have been travelling to Munster games since the earliest days of the oval game (as George Hook might phrase it).

The truth is that Munster's success in the professional era pre-dates the bulk of their following jumping on board - not the other way around.

With Munster now struggling to compete with the top sides in Europe, a large portion of that support seems to be drifting away. We asked historian Dr. Liam O'Callaghan, the author of Rugby in Munster: a social and cultural history for his assessment of this trend.

Last year, we wrote about Munster's first ever match in the Heineken Cup back in November 1995. O'Callaghan was there that day as Munster pipped Swansea thanks to late winning try by Shannon full back Pat Murray.

Thomond Park was only half-full and the chatter on the terrace was not about Munster and their chances in this new-fangled competition but about the upcoming AIL games. The main concern was that one of these Munster players might pick up an injury and miss a genuinely important match.

"There were a few thousand at it, there was no real fuss about it, and everybody in the crowd was just talking about the club fixtures of the previous weekend. This Munster thing was just a gentle distraction from the much more important business of AIL fixtures.

The attendance was such at the stadium that both of us viewed the game by following the play quite easily by walking around the game to follow where the action was. It was quite easy to position oneself behind the goals at Conversion time , in a vain effort to be photographed... In terms of hype around the game, for us as supporters, we were more inquisitive as to how the new competition would take off, considering it was at a time when the AIL was the be all and end all in Irish competition terms."

O'Callaghan says the drop in Munster's attendances in recent years was wholly predictable. A transient fanbase was attracted to Munster because of their success in the last decade and now that success has disappeared they are disappearing too.

"Firstly, it's no great surprise. The crowds were attracted first and foremost by success. And in the last six or seven years, that's kind of fallen away. And we're seeing crowds falling away as well."

Pre-professionalism, Munster participated in the dowdy and unglamorous inter-provincial championship every winter. This competition was accompanied by resounding public disinterest (that Ulster won it every year from 1984 to 1994 may have contributed to the southern media's lukewarm attitude to the competition). It was barely any glitzier than the Railway Cup.

"If you had a touring side coming from Australia and New Zealand, then you might get a big crowd but the old inter-provincial championship was a really unloved competition, a few men and his dog used to show up to watch it. The real hardcore support went to club football... that's where you got the crowds. The Munster phenomenon only took off in the professional era so there was always something new-fangled about it in the first instance.

Given that the Munster phenomenon is relatively recent, you see a lot of flexibility around demand on the supporters side, so the entrenched loyalties that older football clubs in England would have going back 150 years may not apply to the same extent."

Will the decline in the crowds at Thomond Park continue? Well, the level of success enjoyed in the mid-noughties is unlikely to return to Munster in the short-term. Ireland's provincial teams are struggling to keep pace with the monied French outfits.

"No other team - apart from the other provinces - is so dependant on the players it can produce in its immediate geographical area. If you compare that to the Toulon team that won the Heineken Cup last year, they had only one player from the city of Toulon... I really think the bar has been raised in the last few years and the Irish provincial structure and business model can't really compete."

The full interview with Liam O'Callaghan can be heard here:

https://soundcloud.com/ballsdotie/dr-liam-ocallaghan-on-the-decline-in-munsters-attendances

by LeinsterFan4life Tue 17 Nov 2015, 6:12 pm

Munster's attendances are in decline but that Ulster match shouldn't be used as an indicator. For some reason the Pro12 thought it would be a great idea to put the match on a Friday at 6:30pm, on the day of the 3rd place playoff...

This should be one of the highest attended matches in the Pro 12 but once again the league shoots itself in the foot with scheduling.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 17 Nov 2015, 6:47 pm

Friday at 6.30pm? That's appalling scheduling. Must have been a nightmare trying to finish work and the get over to the ground for kick off.

by Chunky Norwich Tue 17 Nov 2015, 6:57 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Friday at 6.30pm? That's appalling scheduling. Must have been a nightmare trying to finish work and the get over to the ground for kick off.

Welcome to the Pro 12

by LeinsterFan4life Tue 17 Nov 2015, 7:04 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Friday at 6.30pm? That's appalling scheduling. Must have been a nightmare trying to finish work and the get over to the ground for kick off.

Welcome to the Pro 12

So it seems the scheduling doesn't suit all Irish teams then... Perhaps it is just the tv companies dictating ko times?

by Chunky Norwich Tue 17 Nov 2015, 7:06 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Friday at 6.30pm? That's appalling scheduling. Must have been a nightmare trying to finish work and the get over to the ground for kick off.

Welcome to the Pro 12
So it seems the scheduling doesn't suit all Irish teams then... Perhaps it is just the tv companies dictating ko times?

Not really much point in me going through that again.

by **profitius** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 7:14 pm

Munster was split between Cork and Limerick, now its just Limerick. The much bigger and wealthier population of Cork have been largely ignored and its asking a lot for those to travel to Limerick, which is a long round trip for a home game.

by Cyril Tue 17 Nov 2015, 7:24 pm

You're always going to lose bandwagon fans when the side goes through a slump. The fair weather fans will return if/when they win something.

by LeinsterFan4life Tue 17 Nov 2015, 8:28 pm

profitius wrote:Munster was split between Cork and Limerick, now its just Limerick. The much bigger and wealthier population of Cork have been largely ignored and its asking a lot for those to travel to Limerick, which is a long round trip for a home game.

But they have games in Musgrave park that also never sell out or even come close to sellouts. A couple of years ago they had a match against Connacht in Cork, which only got about 8k through the gates. The Cork public don't seem too interested in rugby.

by justified sinner Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:22 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Friday at 6.30pm? That's appalling scheduling. Must have been a nightmare trying to finish work and the get over to the ground for kick off.

Welcome to the Pro 12

World Cup mate. Either cancel games, like the English were forced to under the competition rules, or play some games accepting crowds will be impacted. Think Pro12 got this one right. For once.

by Chunky Norwich Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:51 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote: the Irish provincial structure and business model can't really compete.

The key sentence for me.

by LeinsterFan4life Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:54 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote: the Irish provincial structure and business model can't really compete.

The key sentence for me.

With what?

by Chunky Norwich Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:56 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote: the Irish provincial structure and business model can't really compete.

The key sentence for me.
With what?

With the article and it's content.

by Guest Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:53 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote: the Irish provincial structure and business model can't really compete.

The key sentence for me.

Have to say that there's some truth in that. Neither the Provinces or the AP can compete with the French right now, or are likely to do so in the near future. Sure the likes of Sarries can continue to spend more and more, and they will, getting themselves further into debt in the quest to buy success, but that isn't a sustainable model. It will last as long as the debt is called in, or the owner ceases to be. The best hope we have is to continue to invest in grass roots up, and develop our own players. If the suggestion is that we should join the rat race by forgetting about the NIQ, and simply spend loads on overseas players, then that really would be a screw up of a business model, and one ultimately doomed to failure. Not just for the Provinces, but also for the national side.

by Pot Hale Tue 17 Nov 2015, 11:09 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote: the Irish provincial structure and business model can't really compete.

The key sentence for me.
With what?

With the article and it's content.

The key sentence comes from a guy in an interview giving his opinion. Do you know who he is?

As for someone saying that the Irish provinces can't compete with spending by English and French clubs, I think you'll find quite a few people were saying that during the endless arguments over changes to the Heineken Cup. Nothing new really.

by Weegie Wizard Wed 18 Nov 2015, 9:50 am

I don't agree that the Munster model can't or isn't competing with Toulon etc.

That assumes that the goals are the same for both clubs. Toulon care about Toulon. The folk running Munster need to consider what is best for both Munster and Ireland. Why must we judge it on Toulon's aims? If we take international rugby into account as well then surely Munster (or any of the other Irish provinces) is the success story?

by geoff999rugby Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:24 am

Irish sides have never attempted to compete with the top French sides.

However we are able to compete financially with the top English clubs - at least those that adhere to the salary cap.

by geoff999rugby Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:45 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
profitius wrote:Munster was split between Cork and Limerick, now its just Limerick. The much bigger and wealthier population of Cork have been largely ignored and its asking a lot for those to travel to Limerick, which is a long round trip for a home game.
But they have games in Musgrave park that also never sell out or even come close to sellouts. A couple of years ago they had a match against Connacht in Cork, which only got about 8k through the gates. The Cork public don't seem too interested in rugby.

Well to be fair most seasons that get the scraps - all, or virtually of the big games, go to Limerick.
To be honest if I lived in Cork not sure I'd bother.
This year they have 4 games - Treviso, Cardiff, Ospreys, Edinburgh.
Only the Edinburgh game doesn't clash with either the WC or the 6N.
That is pretty thin groul.

As I say I would not bother buying a season ticket for those 4 games and probably would just watch them from the comfort of my own home

If Cork stopped being treated as a second class city the public would show more interest.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 11:55 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Irish sides have never attempted to compete with the top French sides.

.

Why did Leinster seek finacial help from a millionaire to bring back Johnny Sexton then?

Of course they are competing with the French clubs. Both on and off the pitch.

by Breadvan Wed 18 Nov 2015, 12:06 pm

Always been bemused by the old Heineken cup crowd at Thomond. Adults with painted faces,old blokes off their seats going nuts when a kick goes out deep into opposition territory. Like Cyril posted, in every sport the bandwagon fans won't come when the team isn't as good as it was. The hardcore can keep they're heads held high...

by geoff999rugby Wed 18 Nov 2015, 12:16 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Irish sides have never attempted to compete with the top French sides.

.

Why did Leinster seek finacial help from a millionaire to bring back Johnny Sexton then?

Of course they are competing with the French clubs. Both on and off the pitch.

You know perfectly well what I mean - the Irish sides have not been able to compete financially with the top Top 14 sides.
Their bench mark is to match the top English sides.

The difference between the salaries at the top Irish and English sides, compared to the Top 14 sides, is a hell of a lot more than any salary Sexton is receiving

by marty2086 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 12:54 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Irish sides have never attempted to compete with the top French sides.

.

Why did Leinster seek finacial help from a millionaire to bring back Johnny Sexton then?

Of course they are competing with the French clubs. Both on and off the pitch.

How does that show that they are competing? Sexton wanted to come back, they wanted him so they found a way to get him within their budget

Do the NDCs and the likes of Davies coming back to Wales mean the Regions are competing with the Top 14 sides then?

by The Great Aukster Wed 18 Nov 2015, 1:10 pm

Dr. Liam O'Callaghan wrote:the drop in Munster's attendances in recent years was wholly predictable. A transient fanbase was attracted to Munster because of their success in the last decade and now that success has disappeared they are disappearing too.

I understand Dr O'Callaghan isn't here to defend himself, but this statement doesn't stand up to scrutiny. He contradicts himself by saying the decline in numbers was wholly predictable, and then makes that conditional on success.

Did he predict Munster's declining fortunes ten years ago? It doesn't sound like it. Rather he has seen the declining numbers now and attributed them to Munster's relative lack of success since the HEC wins.

People have been attracted to success, it has always been thus, so what is the story (if any) here?

by geoff999rugby Wed 18 Nov 2015, 1:22 pm

I have certainly been told that for a number of reasons Munster are more reliant on success to attract a big crowd than either Leinster or Ulster.

by marty2086 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 1:40 pm

It can't help losing their biggest names in recent years either, guys like ROG, DOC and POC generated an excitement amongst fans but right now with the added losses of guys like Varley, Jones, Hanrahan and POM being injured theres an uncertainty about them

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 2:05 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Irish sides have never attempted to compete with the top French sides.

.

Why did Leinster seek finacial help from a millionaire to bring back Johnny Sexton then?

Of course they are competing with the French clubs. Both on and off the pitch.

How does that show that they are competing? Sexton wanted to come back, they wanted him so they found a way to get him within their budget

Do the NDCs and the likes of Davies coming back to Wales mean the Regions are competing with the Top 14 sides then?

Of course they are. Everybody is competing with the Top14 sides.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 2:11 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Irish sides have never attempted to compete with the top French sides.

.

Why did Leinster seek finacial help from a millionaire to bring back Johnny Sexton then?

Of course they are competing with the French clubs. Both on and off the pitch.

You know perfectly well what I mean - the Irish sides have not been able to compete financially with the top Top 14 sides.
Their bench mark is to match the top English sides.

2 different statements from you there.

The difference between the salaries at the top Irish and English sides, compared to the Top 14 sides, is a hell of a lot more than any salary Sexton is receiving

Errrr, not according to the Irish press:

Gerry Thornley reports in the Irish Times today that Sexton's annual earnings could total €800,000. His IRFU salary will be between €500,000 to €600,000 and a commercial deal with the Denis O'Brien-owned Topaz will make him between €150,000 to €200,000.

This would put Sexton around, and possibly over, what he reportedly made with Racing Metro, €750,000 according to Brendan Fanning.

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/jonny-sexton-to-earn-around-e800k-on-return-to-ireland/139421

by No 7&1/2 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 2:13 pm

The majority of the Premiership sides aren't competing financially. Thought you were saying that the Pro 12 teams have even less cash, how are they competing?

by geoff999rugby Wed 18 Nov 2015, 2:23 pm

Chunky as I clarified I meant compete financially - of course we compete with them on the pitch that is self evident.

As to Sextons salary if we take that figure at face value and add it to the Irish provinces salary level that still puts Leinster total salary level way below that of Toulon, Clermont, Racing etc.

Are you saying you believe the difference between the Irish provinces and the top French sides is only €500,000 to €600,000

If so you are well wide of the mark.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 2:42 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Chunky as I clarified I meant compete financially - of course we compete with them on the pitch that is self evident.

As to Sextons salary if we take that figure at face value and add it to the Irish provinces salary level that still puts Leinster total salary level way below that of Toulon, Clermont, Racing etc.

What is Leinster's total salary level?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 2:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The majority of the Premiership sides aren't competing financially. Thought you were saying that the Pro 12 teams have even less cash, how are they competing?

The Irish infact do the best at competing with the French off the field.

The Welsh have many players playing outside of Wales. The Scots have players playing outside of Scotland, England have players like Armitage, Abendanon, Flood who would surely be in the England squad. Which current Irish internationals are playing in France? Not many, because they are able to compete financially with a range of packages and mechanisms.

So to say the Irish aren't able to compete with the TOP14 sides, (when the only nations players that aren't currently plucked by big buhcks by the Frenc are Irish ones) is a tad disingenuous. Good luck to Ireland though, if the model works, then fair enough.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 2:54 pm

Eh? So you're now saying that the English, Welsh, Scots can't compete but the Irish can?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:05 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Eh? So you're now saying that the English, Welsh, Scots can't compete but the Irish can?

No, they all compete financially, but to varying levels.

It's all relative, but they're in the same ball game. Now if we want to compete further, and begin to get back to the level where the Irish sides were 4 - 8 years ago, then, we need a British and Irish League.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:07 pm

But the English can't. That's why Bath and Saracens are stamping their feet and cheating. Unless by competing financially you mean offering players much less money than the French?

by Guest Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:09 pm

Why would you need a B&I league if the model is working for the Provinces?

by marty2086 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:13 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Eh? So you're now saying that the English, Welsh, Scots can't compete but the Irish can?

No, they all compete financially, but to varying levels.

It's all relative, but they're in the same ball game. Now if we want to compete further, and begin to get back to the level where the Irish sides were 4 - 8 years ago, then, we need a British and Irish League.

So you keep saying but your yet to say what will be different

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:15 pm

Munchkin wrote:Why would you need a B&I league if the model is working for the Provinces?

If you don't fancy getting to another European semi final in the future (or at least that level of rugby) then you probably don't need change.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:16 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Eh? So you're now saying that the English, Welsh, Scots can't compete but the Irish can?

No, they all compete financially, but to varying levels.

It's all relative, but they're in the same ball game. Now if we want to compete further, and begin to get back to the level where the Irish sides were 4 - 8 years ago, then, we need a British and Irish League.

So you keep saying but your yet to say what will be different

What will be different? In what sense? Financially ?

by marty2086 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:18 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Eh? So you're now saying that the English, Welsh, Scots can't compete but the Irish can?

No, they all compete financially, but to varying levels.

It's all relative, but they're in the same ball game. Now if we want to compete further, and begin to get back to the level where the Irish sides were 4 - 8 years ago, then, we need a British and Irish League.

So you keep saying but your yet to say what will be different

What will be different? In what sense? Financially ?

Your stating it'll all rosy if we scrapped the Pro12 for a B&I League yet you never seem to state how in any way, be it financially or competitively or even in any other way

by No 7&1/2 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:20 pm

Or why the English would want in.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:23 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Your stating it'll all rosy if we scrapped the Pro12 for a B&I League yet you never seem to state how in any way, be it financially or competitively or even in any other way

I can't make people read the thread I created. But if you don't read it, then I'm not sure you can really say I haven't bothered to address those things.

by Guest Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:24 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Why would you need a B&I league if the model is working for the Provinces?

If you don't fancy getting to another European semi final in the future (or at least that level of rugby) then you probably don't need change.

A B&I won't make a difference if the model remains the same, it would be just another league, and the model we currently have is the best for us. We simply can't compete with the French in terms of buying up world class talent, and if we did try, it would eventually have a very negative impact on the Provinces, and the national side.

We can't compete with the French. We would be foolish to try.

by marty2086 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:25 pm

Your theory goes along the lines that the Pro12 earns X from tv deals, the AP Y so combine the two you get Z yes?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:27 pm

marty2086 wrote:Your theory goes along the lines that the Pro12 earns X from tv deals, the AP Y so combine the two you get Z yes?

Not necessarily combining the 2. It would be a completely new package obviously.

by marty2086 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:28 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Your theory goes along the lines that the Pro12 earns X from tv deals, the AP Y so combine the two you get Z yes?

Not necessarily combining the 2. It would be a completely new package obviously.

But you think that any new deal would be pretty close to what the AP are getting now?

by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:31 pm

marty2086 wrote:

But you think that any new deal would be pretty close to what the AP are getting now?

Way more I'd expect.

by marty2086 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:32 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

But you think that any new deal would be pretty close to what the AP are getting now?

Way more I'd expect.

Based on what?

by geoff999rugby Wed 18 Nov 2015, 3:33 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Chunky as I clarified I meant compete financially - of course we compete with them on the pitch that is self evident.

As to Sextons salary if we take that figure at face value and add it to the Irish provinces salary level that still puts Leinster total salary level way below that of Toulon, Clermont, Racing etc.

What is Leinster's total salary level?

Taking into account all factors it is equivalent to the English salary cap as are Munster and Ulster.
Even assuming the Sexton salary is over and above that the final figure remains considerably below the bigger spending French sides

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