The Decline In Crowds At Munster Matches Was Wholly Predictable

Only 7.200 supporters attended Munster's victory over Ulster in the Guinness Pro12 two weeks ago. Afterwards, Anthony Foley bemoaned the paltry attendance.

He told the Irish Independent;

It is disappointing that the crowd was what it was. The umbilical chord has always been there between Munster and our supporters. It's important people come and support us.

You've got to come and sample it. Watching it on TV is only armchair stuff - you've got to come here and feel it. It's important for Limerick that everyone comes out and supports the game. It's a big stadium that needs filling and it's a great atmosphere.
For Saturday's Heineken Cup opener against Treviso, the crowd was bigger but not by a whole lot.

What to make of this?

Observing the fervour of their supporters during the noughties, it was easy to assume that the red hordes have been travelling to Munster games since the earliest days of the oval game (as George Hook might phrase it).

The truth is that Munster's success in the professional era pre-dates the bulk of their following jumping on board - not the other way around.

With Munster now struggling to compete with the top sides in Europe, a large portion of that support seems to be drifting away. We asked historian Dr. Liam O'Callaghan, the author of Rugby in Munster: a social and cultural history for his assessment of this trend.

Last year, we wrote about Munster's first ever match in the Heineken Cup back in November 1995. O'Callaghan was there that day as Munster pipped Swansea thanks to late winning try by Shannon full back Pat Murray.

Thomond Park was only half-full and the chatter on the terrace was not about Munster and their chances in this new-fangled competition but about the upcoming AIL games. The main concern was that one of these Munster players might pick up an injury and miss a genuinely important match.

There were a few thousand at it, there was no real fuss about it, and everybody in the crowd was just talking about the club fixtures of the previous weekend. This Munster thing was just a gentle distraction from the much more important business of AIL fixtures.

The attendance was such at the stadium that both of us viewed the game by following the play quite easily by walking around the game to follow where the action was. It was quite easy to position oneself behind the goals at Conversion time , in a vain effort to be photographed... In terms of hype around the game, for us as supporters, we were more inquisitive as to how the new competition would take off, considering it was at a time when the AIL was the be all and end all in Irish competition terms.
O'Callaghan says the drop in Munster's attendances in recent years was wholly predictable. A transient fanbase was attracted to Munster because of their success in the last decade and now that success has disappeared they are disappearing too.

Firstly, it's no great surprise. The crowds were attracted first and foremost by success. And in the last six or seven years, that's kind of fallen away. And we're seeing crowds falling away as well.
Pre-professionalism, Munster participated in the dowdy and unglamorous inter-provincial championship every winter. This competition was accompanied by resounding public disinterest (that Ulster won it every year from 1984 to 1994 may have contributed to the southern media's lukewarm attitude to the competition). It was barely any glitzier than the Railway Cup.

If you had a touring side coming from Australia and New Zealand, then you might get a big crowd but the old inter-provincial championship was a really unloved competition, a few men and his dog used to show up to watch it. The real hardcore support went to club football... that's where you got the crowds. The Munster phenomenon only took off in the professional era so there was always something new-fangled about it in the first instance.

Given that the Munster phenomenon is relatively recent, you see a lot of flexibility around demand on the supporters side, so the entrenched loyalties that older football clubs in England would have going back 150 years may not apply to the same extent.
Will the decline in the crowds at Thomond Park continue? Well, the level of success enjoyed in the mid-noughties is unlikely to return to Munster in the short-term. Ireland's provincial teams are struggling to keep pace with the monied French outfits.

No other team - apart from the other provinces - is so dependant on the players it can produce in its immediate geographical area. If you compare that to the Toulon team that won the Heineken Cup last year, they had only one player from the city of Toulon... I really think the bar has been raised in the last few years and the Irish provincial structure and business model can't really compete.

LondonTiger wrote: Toulon spent 30m Euros in total, of which 11.9m Euros was direct salaries.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:The Salary cap means absolutely Poopie in the top 14. I don't even know why it exists.

It actually does the opposite of what it is suppose to do. All the other teams are restricted in the amount they can spend but the likes of Toulon and Racing can spent what they want because their rich owners can get their business to "sponsor" players.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:What point? This has been debated many many times on here, and it's always you that seems stuck on it, Chunky. You simply can't believe the spending of the Provinces is anywhere near the top T14 clubs.

Geoff999rugby states on this thread, that Leinster, Munster and Ulster spend upwards of £5.5m
Toulon officially state that their salary spend was £5.9m last season.

These are not my figures. They are Geoff's and Toulon's.

Sin é wrote:It seems Munster had lined up Stephen Moore for next season and were blocked by the IRFU. The IRFU don't need a salary cap to exercise control.

As an aside, its interesting that the Irish Provinces can still attract top SH players.

marty2086 wrote:geoff I think Toulon, like Racing, pay the image rights from their stadium operating company which is a different department/company so its not from rugby operations

Its a gapping loop hole that no ones bothered about closing

It is understood that the IRFU’s main reluctance centred around the fact that Moore, who turns 33 in January but remains in superb condition, would have denied homegrown Irish-qualified players game time.

Munster currently have Mike Sherry, Duncan Casey, Niall Scannell and Kevin O’Byrne as hooking options in their senior squad.

geoff999rugby wrote:Munster financial situation needs a lot more than a few more people through the gate.

geoff999rugby wrote:The debt for Thomond is the problem how it is going to be shifted?

Sure we got 3 sides of the ground built for us - we have nearly paid off the debt for the Terrace side which we paid for.
Its not just that though Munster crowds are now the 3rd highest in Ireland.

Less money going into Munster than either Ulster or Leinster I suspect.

Sin é wrote:Adidas just signed another 4 year deal, so the jersey sales must be good. Munster have a fairly high powered Commercial Board (with Doug Howlett as corporate ambassador) who seem to have done a lot recently with the finances.

Sin é wrote:.

As for attendances - what do they expect with the staging of games at 6pm (or any time) on a Friday evening. It just doesn't suit Munster supporters who have to travel long distances.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:.

As for attendances - what do they expect with the staging of games at 6pm (or any time) on a Friday evening. It just doesn't suit Munster supporters who have to travel long distances.

Yet when this is raised for other teams in the league, the lower attendance is seen a conspiracy theory, and we should just get on with it.

You really couldn't make this sh1t up. Double standards on an epic deluded scale.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:.

As for attendances - what do they expect with the staging of games at 6pm (or any time) on a Friday evening. It just doesn't suit Munster supporters who have to travel long distances.

Yet when this is raised for other teams in the league, the lower attendance is seen a conspiracy theory, and we should just get on with it.

You really couldn't make this sh1t up. Double standards on an epic deluded scale.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Your "theory" was that the schedule for the Pro 12 was made up by the IRFU to favour all the provinces which you have just debunked with this thread.

The tv companies seem happy to shoot themselves and the league in the foot with ridiculous kick off times such as this.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:.

As for attendances - what do they expect with the staging of games at 6pm (or any time) on a Friday evening. It just doesn't suit Munster supporters who have to travel long distances.

Yet when this is raised for other teams in the league, the lower attendance is seen a conspiracy theory, and we should just get on with it.

You really couldn't make this sh1t up. Double standards on an epic deluded scale.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Your "theory" was that the schedule for the Pro 12 was made up by the IRFU to favour all the provinces which you have just debunked with this thread.

No it's not. My theory is that the IRFU are overall happy with the status quo on a seasonal basis, and all that the current unfit for purpose tv deal brings. Yet other teams are severely hampered by it.

It's quite hilarious that the Irish teams get 1, yes 1 awkward fixture and they then start to complain. The Welsh teams have had them for seasons but we are told it's .

The tv companies seem happy to shoot themselves and the league in the foot with ridiculous kick off times such as this.

Which proves that you only notice when Irish teams are involved. You've bene told this is happening on a regular basis for other teams, but haven't acknowledged there is a problem, because it doesn't affect the Irish.

geoff999rugby wrote:Regardless of a poor time for a kick off Munster crowds are down

They were below both Leinster and Ulster for the last 2 seasons and this year of the 4 highest games
3 were in Belfast and 1 in Dublin

The trend seems to be becoming more significant this year

2ndtimeround wrote:With the world cup having been on and the Irish fans traveling to watch the national side then there was always going to be a drop in the number of fans that are making it to the league games, fans only have a finite amount of disposable income to spend.
I doubt the reduction in numbers will be as large in the new year.

doctor_grey wrote:If I can intrude and ask:  What is the conclusion about why Munster attendance is down?  I ask because I view Munster as one of the bedrock teams which always (to me) seem to have great support in addition to that global fan base.  I get to one or two matches a season at Thomond Park and it has always seemed pretty full.