Eddie Jones - England's New Coach

First topic message reminder :

So the worst kept secret is out...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12005671/Eddie-Jones-to-be-confirmed-as-England-head-coach-in-next-24-hours.html

Jury's out on this one, will have to see how the 6Ns goes then ponder his selection.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:poor Jones hasn't even picked his EPS yet, let alone his team, and already being criticised for playing a negative brand of rugby, and seeking to copy a template which is so dreadful it's seen a team not yet lose a match this season.

MfC - For me it's wanting to see an England side play a style of rugby that suits our best players. Personally I believe that is attacking through the wider channels not up the middle with our current backs.

Anyone with any great knowledge on England's new scrummaging coach? I have never heard of him so will England's scrum improve?

Ian Peel will serve as scrum coach for England’s Six Nations campaign while also joining Saracens’ backroom staff on a permanent basis. The former Newcastle Falcons prop has coached England’s Under-20s since 2013 but will now relinquish that role.
England contenders: half a dozen Eddie Jones should consider for Six Nations
Read more

Peel, 39, will assist Eddie Jones in his first Six Nations, the Rugby Football Union has announced, though the new England coach could then seek a full-time scrum specialist appointment.

Peel’s appointment at Saracens offsets the Premiership club’s impending loss of Paul Gustard, who will join the England set-up in the new year.

“This is a huge opportunity and I am really looking forward to getting stuck in with lots of the guys who I have worked with through the age-group teams but also when I have gone in and helped Graham Rowntree over the last few seasons,” said Peel, of working with England for the Six Nations. “It is a huge honour to go and deliver that for the seniors and joining up with Eddie, Steve Borthwick, Paul Gustard and the rest of the team.”

Peel, a former Newcastle scrum coach, has been part of a hugely successful Under-20s set-up for England and was integral to Junior World Championship triumphs in 2013 and 2014. Peel led the coaching team that took England to the final again this year and that age-group success has not gone unnoticed.

Jones was thought to have weighed up adding his former Japan colleague and Brave Blossoms and scrum guru Marc dal Maso to the England ranks. Dal Maso is keen to keep coaching at the highest levels despite recently revealing he suffers from Parkinson’s disease.

Whether or not England turn to Dal Maso, Peel’s appointment allows Jones and the RFU breathing room over selecting a long-term specialist scrum coach.
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“I have been coaching within the RFU pathway for the last six years so this is a huge chance to go and coach seniors players at a quality club that performs at the highest level domestically and in Europe,” said Peel of his new role at Saracens.

“I have no doubt it will be a great environment to work in and there are a number of players who I have worked with within the England age-group set-up like Maro Itoje, George Kruis and Mako Vunipola.

“I am really looking forward to getting involved in the day-to-day and the hands-on coaching every week.

“I have loved every minute of working at the RFU, not just with the Under-20s but all the age-group sides within the pathway.

“It has massively developed me as a coach by working with different teams and different players and learning from those players and coaches.

“To develop as a coach under the likes of Kevin Bowring and Richard Shuttleworth has been great.

“Every team I have worked with has been different but I have massively enjoyed my time with all of them and for different reasons.

“Not just the success that went with the Under-20s with the Junior World Championships but seeing players that have developed through the pathway then go on and play in the Premiership or Championship and then ultimately going on and represent England or the British and Irish Lions. That is the biggest honour.”

Purely from the point of building on the great work Lancaster did with bringing through youth this is good to see.

I get the feeling that Jones has been told by the Ritchie etc to put a young English coaching team around him to counteract some lingering misgivings over a first overseas head coach.

With this in mind Peel is probably a good temporary replacement. He has worked with many of the players before so will know their strengths, weakness and how to work them. With several young props he will know well pushing the squad he's a good appointment to bring those through as well.

With regards to English scrum coaches it was always going be someone somewhat unproven.

Rowntree had the most pedigree with 2 Lions tours and 8 years with England, for most of which our scrum was strong. Sadly it was weakest at the RWC.

Dorian West would have been a good coup but I doubt he would have wanted to be solely a scrum coach. Similarly for Hatley and Cockers who definitely know their way round a scrummage but wouldn't want that limited a role.

Diamond part-time while still managing/coaching Sale?

I'm not sure that DOR wanted to leave their roles even for part time jobs Yappy. Baxter certainly distanced himself from that pretty early on.

king_carlos wrote:

DaveM wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Nowell will be on the left with Watson on the right I reckon Yappy.

Nowell is in even better form than Ashton and has been around the squad more recently. Watson hasn't impressed the same as Ashton or Nowell this season but has showed up well in internationals thus far and I just can't see Jones dropping a guy that talented unless he performs poorly enough to demand it.

So:

11. Nowell
14. Ashton/Rokoduguni
15. Watson

Brown is a much better FB than Watson currently. We add much more to the side with him at 15 and Watson on the wing that we do by moving Watson to 15. It will likely be Watson's best position long term, in fact I think he could be a star there with a bit more room to run. At current Brown is our best 15, I hope Jones tries to give Watson game time there towards the end of games if he gets the chance though.

For the sake of argument, if we want to replace Brown for the 6 Nations (I can't see why personally) then Pennell is our next best FB anyway IMO.

From what I've seen from Brown he's out of form. I can see Jones picking him for his attitude, but he's not the form 15 in England. And I heard that Jones is the one who convinced Goode to switch to 15. With Barritt at 12 and Farrell at 10 I'd definitely have Goode at 15 for the 6 Nations. By the summer I'd hope Watson would have found his form and have cemented his place as first choice.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35245519

Well its confirmed that Alex King wasn't even approached.

And Eddie will be overseeing attacking duties...

PR.com


Although England’s Six Nations campaign kicks off against Scotland at Murrayfield on Saturday, their coach Eddie Jones has offered to help out his former side, the Stormers.

That is the word from Stormers interim coach Robbie Fleck who said Jones, who left the Cape Town-based franchise less than two weeks into his job to take over the reins at England, is keen to help the Super Rugby side on an informal basis.

“He sent me a message through his agent the other day to say he is available at any stage though obviously he is pretty hectic at the moment,” Fleck told Reuters.

“He said when he left here that the option was there and he has backed up on his word. I am really grateful for that.

“I certainly will send him some footage and give him an update of where we are.”

Despite his short spell in charge of the Stormers, Jones made a favourable impression on the team and they would adopt some of his ideas during their upcoming Super Rugby campaign.

“The brilliant thing when Eddie was here was that we had all this knowledge and ways we wanted to play but he just simplified things,” added Fleck.

“At the end of the day his big message was the fundamentals of rugby have not changed over the years, it’s just having the confidence to go forward and do it.”

The Stormers’ Super Rugby campaign kicks off against the Bulls in Cape Town on February 27.

So, its all change, Tarzan the Kiwi and his Jane, sorry, Jones, the Australian about to rewrite English fortunes.

What concerns me is can we take the same core group of players and rebrand quite so quickly after the autumn.

If they manage it, it will be be quite the turnaround.

Smart money says Scotland will fail but i have my doubts…..France well they are boom and bust so there has to be something coming and Noves is equally capable of producing a turnaround. Italy will fall, as i expect will the Irish.

It could come down to a day in Twickenham again, just like in October…..

Gwlad wrote:So, its all change, Tarzan the Kiwi and his Jane, sorry, Jones, the Australian about to rewrite English fortunes.

What concerns me is can we take the same core group of players and rebrand quite so quickly after the autumn.

If they manage it, it will be be quite the turnaround.

Smart money says Scotland will fail but i have my doubts…..France well they are boom and bust so there has to be something coming and Noves is equally capable of producing a turnaround. Italy will fall, as i expect will the Irish.

It could come down to a day in Twickenham again, just like in October…..

Why not? Its also why he hasn't flooded the squad with all the kids we keep harping on about. That would take longer to implement.

Keep the core, tweak the tactics and really start the big work in the summer, ready for the Aussie tour.

Don't quote him GF, you're spoiling the ignore feature!

Sorry matey....

England could easily do a Wales RWC 07 GS 08 - Complete failure in 2007 under Jenkins is exactly what we needed to get rid of a coaching team that were just not up to the job. Come 2008 and a similar team with a few tweaks and its a Grand Slam. England are without doubt capable of this. It remains to be seen. Exciting few weeks ahead.

Just think of it, England might have stumbled to the semis and then you would have had that lot for another 4 years. Sometimes bottoming out is not the worse thing if you need to move forward.

Lancaster did a lot of good for England...blooded loads of players etc and tried to get them playing with much more width etc.

Had they reversed a little over the last year or so...possibly. He had his failings. Like his poor use of substitutions which I believe contributed to successive 2nd's and no 1sts in the 6n.

But that's gone now. I don't actually see Jones as the messiah, but I do see him as someone who will fix some of the glaring issues that Lancaster seemingly failed to do...like the breakdown.
Efficiency of taking chances.

If we can improve just those areas, we'll be far more of a challenge for all the teams.

With hindsight, I think Lancaster was ultimately in the wrong role - he's good at structure and long term player development, but lacked the knowledge, experience and maybe temperament to force a win when the chips were down. Maybe he has learned that now; we might never know.

It's a similar thing to Andy Robinson - a genuinely excellent Head Coach, but too weak at selection and not inspirational enough to be a great DoR.

Eddie is using largely the same personnel as Lancaster - which shouldn't be a surprise - and will continue to bring new players through, but the main thing he seems to be changing is the willingness to play on the edge. Lancaster tried almost to be whiter than white and it didn't work, so I am happy about that.

Much has also been made of Eddie focusing on performance and shaking up a culture where players were "comfortable". I don't think that's quite as important as it's cracked up to be - Lancaster erred on the side of loyalty to players over the last RWC cycle because his squad were so desperately inexperienced and I suspect had he survived he would have been more experimental in this cycle.

Eddie has a better experience base (though still c250 caps short of where we want to be in 2019), so more leeway to bring new players in. And I think once his system is established he will be more ruthless in dropping established players in favour of ones he thinks can better fit his plan (or just to give anyone who gets complacent a kick up the proverbial). But at the same time, I suspect the door will be more open for players to come back in. He's already shown that he won't stick rigidly to ideas like "Wigglesworth is my relief scrum half, so I will ignore whichever of Care and Youngs is in worse form."

p.s. It struck me today that we may see a long-term back 5 permed from Launchbury, Itoje, Beaumont, Billy, Clifford and Underhill. That's a group that would have enough around the park to be a serious threat to any team. If he can keep them all fit and find the right place to put them all (3 of them plus Morgan are competing for No 8).

Add Hughes in to that Poorfour.

As much as I hate the idea of him playing for England...purely on ability we all know he WILL be in the squad the second he's qualified.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:All in all a little bit of a meh appointment. Put it another way had Lancaster still been in charge I'd be more worried about Scotland's opener against England.

Eddie Jones is firmly in the plonker section as far as personality goes but I do think the RWC flattered Japan and as a result Jones.

We'll see how he gets on in the 6N. I'm not expecting his impact to be seismic.

Given a little extra recovery time for Japan it would have been interesting to see if the WC flattered Japan or if Scotlands WC would have been seen as positive. I also don't think there'll be a seismic shift but I thought England would be favourites for the 6Ns and don't think that'll change now.

Favorites in the 6 Nations?

Yeah makes total sense based on recent form in competition, and form in the 6 Nations itself.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Don't quote him GF, you're spoiling the ignore feature!

Ain't life grand

Yup I would plump for England with a possible grand slam. Good core now with some quality youngsters coming through.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup I would plump for England with a possible grand slam. Good core now with some quality youngsters coming through.

Well with this amaaaazing new coach, a whole new set up, and the same core of players with 2 weeks prep, it has to happen EVENTUALLY, doesn't it?

Why do you plague the England boards Gwlad??

I apologise, but plague is a bit strong old chap.

Do i need your permission to post my opinions on a public forum about a game i have been involved with either playing or watching in England for 35 years?

That's what i thought.

Stop trying to derail the thread by constantly trying to find offence and characterize my every post as somehow hurting your feelings.

Thanks.

Additionally, reviewing these posts, its a pity you couldn't keep up the debate instead of doing Pooly's rather pathetic bidding but hey ho, more important to pretend some people own these threads right?

Not too strong at all.

The often made quote is "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." At least in appointing Eddie Jones we are trying something different. If it doesn't work then fine I can live with that, at least we tried. Every other country bar France has bought into the overseas coach idea as being the answer, so I suppose you could accuse us of copying Wales who have a long history of having to go outside their nation for a coach.

No more Mr Nice Guy:

"Billy Vunipola has revealed that England have been told to stop being “too nice” by their head coach Eddie Jones."


Yes, cmon lads a bit of attitude.
Not sure Robshaw can ever be a mean mother tho' lol

Hartley can give them some classes on how not to be Nice Greg. I think Farrell and Brown will excel in that class but people like Launchbury and Robshaw might struggle

GeordieFalcon wrote:Why do you plague the England boards Gwlad??

....because of the love which dare not speak its name....Gwlad has a secret pash for England.

Hi Ruby, 
Yes looking forward to another great 6n and all the wonderful banter on 606. 

On the nice guy theme, the flip side is the flirting with cards that Eddie's style might entail. If we had a team of Richie McCaws I wouldn't worry so much, but we lack that craftiness.

It's an odd thing, but the Six nations has crept up on me. Intellectually (yes, a big word for me) I knew it is coming, but it seems the holidays just ended and here we are. So, let's have at it.

Maybe being a long way from home makes a difference. But I get to watch at a Moose Lodge (yes, it is a dump).

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not too strong at all.

A plague almost as persistent as your constant wish to be offended by anything I post? Really rather boring so why don't you put me on ignore as you have said you have done before. Good lad.

Poorfour wrote:p.s. It struck me today that we may see a long-term back 5 permed from Launchbury, Itoje, Beaumont, Billy, Clifford and Underhill. That's a group that would have enough around the park to be a serious threat to any team. If he can keep them all fit and find the right place to put them all (3 of them plus Morgan are competing for No 8).

As well as Hughes there is also Ewers of course. Plus Kruis isn't going away and I reckon Slater will be in and around the squad when fit and I think Lawes' carrying is somewhat under-rated. In addition LCD will probably end up sharing the hooking duties with George, and I reckon Auturac will come good. so with M Vunipola, Brookes and Hill as well the days of GF worrying about beef and carrying ability will shortly be gone.

If Dom Barrow keeps progressing as he currently is then he could be around or about pretty soon too.

If Kruis keeps improving as he has this season then he could be a brilliant player to have around the squad for some time to come. He has kept his high work rate whilst carrying much more effectively and generally looking more dynamic around the park. Plus his line-out calling just keeps improving. I'm really keen to see how he does outside of the Sarries set-up and in the pressure of Murrayfield with the Gray brothers trying to disrupting things.

I really hope that Slater can stay fit and show his best form leading up to the summer tour. He could offer a line-out caller who also offers much more around the park in terms of heavy duty carrying than Kruis or Lawes do.

Kitchener is another who could arguably offer more to the tight 5 than Lawes but he keeps just missing out, you get the feeling that the coaches don't quite want him there.

I suspect the way the Leicester pack featuring Kitchener was completely annihilated by the Sarries pack with Kruis and Itoje inthe engine-room probably didn't help his cause. Barrow was there too, so plenty of work still needed there as well. Interesting to see how he develops though. He was really highly rated as a teenager coming through at Leeds.

DaveM wrote:I suspect the way the Leicester pack featuring Kitchener was completely annihilated by the Sarries pack with Kruis and Itoje inthe engine-room probably didn't help his cause. Barrow was there too, so plenty of work still needed there as well. Interesting to see how he develops though. He was really highly rated as a teenager coming through at Leeds.

I think it's very possible the team, especially the pack, which tours in June could be pretty different than the team we have now. For instance, if Slade and Tuilagi are healthy (and firing!) then the backs could look and play very differently. If Ford continues his mediocre play, the 10s could be Farrell and Cipriani, a very different dynamic there. With a lot of young talent, the pack has so many permutations it is almost impossible to sift through. I think we will learn more by the end of the 6 Nations (does anyone fall out?) and the end of the club season (who shows some real potential?). Great place to be in.

The ignore feature is working overtime lately.....

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The ignore feature is working overtime lately.....

Except for when you read my posts so that you can ping me to the MODS as above eh Pooly

Who's is stalking who exactly?

Your personal vendetta is pretty transparent, why don't you actually ignore my posts as you keep saying you are, instead of pursuing a campaign to get me banned?

Gwlad wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not too strong at all.

A plague almost as persistent as your constant wish to be offended by anything I post? Really rather boring so why don't you put me on ignore as you have said you have done before. Good lad.

I'm offended by poor taste jokes but your general stuff is normally: something something something incorrect fact slagging off England. something something something obsessive dig about England.

It would be refreshing if you could offer something good consistantly but you want a bit of attention as mummy and daddy ignored you as a child etc.

Just take a deep breath and walk away 71/2, he's feeds on you reacting.

There's always an outside chance he may just decide to stop it and just use this place to discuss rather than bait.

Nearly time for us to all moan about how conservative Jones is anyway as he only includes new caps at flanker, inside centre and a 20 year old tight head off the bench. I love the 6Ns can't wait!

Jesus wept it's like a playground in here sometimes.

Actually I think there are some very good posters here and some very informed views.  Unfortunately there are one or two (I am sure we all know who they are) who cannot act in a grown up manner and cause a nuisance.

No 7 & 1/2 I think you'll find it's primarily the starting line up which is conservative. Looks eerily familiar to Lancaster. Also his lack of faith in certain players' ability to step up to the occasion.

I actually agree with Steffon Armitage's comments.

Also I like Goode but do you genuinely think he would be a good bench option? I don't.

Don't think the first team lacks for quality players though. I read that Armitage thing and I'd have more sympathy for the view if he didn't appear to be ignoring Clifford, Devoto and Hill with his comments. We're also likely to see Itoje and Daly sooner rather than later. If anything it's quite refreshing that a new group of coaches agree with the old in the majority of cases. There hasn't needed to be a fresh start as Lancaster really needed to do.

I'd have prefered to see Daly or joseph cover from the bench but maybe Jones again agrees that Watson isn't able to cover full back yet? Not heard any of his/Gustards/whoevers comments on full back though, don't know if he's even made any?

Armitage's comments were a pile of poo, for many of the reasons you point out 7.5. Also add in that there would be howls of derision if JJ, after being our best back last year, was left out. Or indeed if Launchbury was left out to allow Itoje to play.

Jones has made some conservative choices - most notably Haskell at 7. However he obviously feels that Kvesic and Fraser simply are not good enough while Clifford will be introduced from the bench.

But what i find most amusing is that those who were excited with Jones appointment are now on his back before even a game has been played.

i did not want Jones as coach, but he is who we have - and I am willing to actually give him some time before I judge.

No 7 & 1/2 well perhaps he feels that two of them are very lucky to be in the 23 like I do.

I'd rather see Itoje and Daly both back for their clubs than wasting their weekend as tackle bag holders in Scotland.

Refreshing that we see the same old man sausage ups? Fair enough if you feel that way. You were always a staunch Lancaster supporter so it's not a surprise.

Personally I was hoping for some refreshing change. Not the same mistakes we've seen before.


Londontiger my reasoning for that is simple - it's as if Lancaster is still in charge.

I was hoping that Eddie Jones would do things differently. Perhaps naive of me to expect a different coach to be more sensible then his predecessor. Silly me.

In the England-Scotland thread, they said you can tell good selection when there's almost completely agreement. With England yet again there isn't.

Perhaps Eddie Jones will prove me wrong but his poor selection does not bode well.

If being "more sensible" just means picking players that you like, then no he hasn't been more sensible

If it means looking at the opposition, our strengths, and the need to get off to a winning start, thus formulating a pragmatic gameplan with some of the players you like off the bench to change things, then maybe he has been sensible