WTF 2015 - Finals Day

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MoTD: Djokovic v Federer (really!   or should it be Ack!Ack! vs Kamikaze)

to both gladiators.

Djokovic doesn't appear to be especially strong.  I am not sure what he can bench press.  Nadal seems to be far stronger and Nadal is able to put so much spin on the ball in the way he strikes the ball.  But Djokovic seems to be the ultimate bendy man, wiry, resilient.  I reckon with a little effort he could do that contortionist trick of getting his body inside a small plastic cube.

The way Djokovic moves is very different to the way Murray moves.  Djokovic does a lot of stretching and sliding, whereas Murray does a lot of knee and leg movement with starts and stops.  Murray seems to have a heavier movement than Djokovic - Djokovic is more balletic

Without a doubt Novak is an incredible mover, as is Rafa (though not as good now as he was) proving that over time the physical game takes its toll.
Roger's game has hardly changed over the years, giving him longevity.
I don't believe either Nadal or Novak will be playing ( if they don't retire before then), the level of tennis that Roger is still producing at his age.

So the words hay and sunshine come to mind  

Djoko has had an amazing year, it's true. But despite his incredible record this year STILL don't think it quite equals 2011.
The reason is that in 2011, you had a Nadal at the height of his powers plus a four-years-younger Federer and Murray also a threat. This year, Novak has been able to take advantage of a below-par Rafa and an ageing Rog (who still managed three wins against him) while being able to generally be too strong for Murray.
This is not to take away from Nole's incredible 2015. I just wish he'd been pushed a little more.

sirfredperry wrote:Djoko has had an amazing year, it's true. But despite his incredible record this year STILL don't think it quite equals 2011.
  The reason is that in 2011, you had a Nadal at the height of his powers plus a four-years-younger Federer and Murray also a threat. This year, Novak has been able to take advantage of a below-par Rafa and an ageing Rog (who still managed three wins against him) while being able to generally be too strong for Murray.
  This is not to take away from Nole's incredible 2015. I just wish he'd been pushed a little more.

I'd half disagree with you there, sirfred.

I agree that the opposition was tougher in 2011.

But Novak has achieved quite a bit more in 2015:

3 slams and a runner up v 3 slams and SF
6 Masters v 5 Masters
1 WTF v RR exit.
82-6 v 70-6

I think it boils down to this question: is Novak a better player in 2015 than in 2011?

If he's a better player in 2015, I don't think it's logical to conclude that he would have lost more this year if he faced the same opposition he faced in 2011.

Of course, if you think he was better in 2011, then elevating that season above this season is possible.

But I think 2015 Novak is better than 2011 Novak. A different beast but better overall.

Novak is definitely better this year, Murray as well. Fed I would say is probably better than for the majority of 2011 (he only really got himself in tip-top form at the end of the year).

The only big 4 member who is weaker is Rafa and, given he wasn't really a threat to Novak in 2011 anyway, that's only relevant if starting from the premise that Novak is weaker this year.

Born Slippy wrote:Novak is definitely better this year, Murray as well. Fed I would say is probably better than for the majority of 2011 (he only really got himself in tip-top form at the end of the year).

The only big 4 member who is weaker is Rafa and, given he wasn't really a threat to Novak in 2011 anyway, that's only relevant if starting from the premise that Novak is weaker this year.

Tough to compare Federer to 2011.

He's better in some ways but I can really see the extra 4 years in his legs.

I don't think 2015 Federer could produce that RG SF performance or go 5 sets at USO like he could in 2011.

Fed in 2011 was better at the slams, he was stopped by Novak at the HC slams SF but beat Novak at the FO. This year he lost at R3 at AO to Seppi!

I do feel the Novak in 2011 was more formidable than the 2015 version but was injured after the USO that year hence affected his results thereafter, at season end. I would say the Novak of 2015 is more resilient, not all conquering at times but could outlast his opponents, eg. Murray at AO and IW or Miami, Dolgo and Klizan etc.

Novak won more points from AO up to the USO in 2011 than in 2015 and lost only two matches during that stretch in 2011. I do feel too that Rafa, Fed and Murray were all better in 2011 than in 2015, at least at the slams.

I think it's pretty evenly matched between 2011 and 2015 - I suspect that Djoko himself will remember 2011 more fondly from a tennis point of view.  One important factor in favour of 2011 is the psychological one - Djoko only had one slam win going into that year with a bevy of 'near misses' and the Fedal duopoly still looked pretty healthy, even if it was more the 'dal side than the Fed' side.  Taking it to them both in the way he did in 2011, especially during that explosively excellent start to the year which eclipsed even the start to 2015, took an enormous amount of self-belief.  At the beginning of 2015 Djoko was a multi-slam winner and knew what he was capable of because of the trail he had blazed in 2011.

2011 was definitely the more exciting year.

It was unexpected and yielded some genuinely great matches.

He had more challengers then than he does now