606 Selects Englands EPS for 2016 6Ns - Take 2

First topic message reminder :

Name your 33 man EPS squad.
It must include 22 of the following players.
Keep any injured players in as they can be replaced later - but state who you would have on standby.

I will add up and produce the consensus next week.

Current Squad


Props
Kieran Brookes
Dan Cole
Joe Marler
Mako Vunipola
David Wilson

Hookers
Jamie George
Rob Webber
Tom Youngs

Second rows
George Kruis
Joe Launchbury
Courtney Lawes
Geoff Parling

Back rows
James Haskell
Ben Morgan
Chris Robshaw
Billy Vunipola
Tom Wood
Calum Clark

Scrum halves
Danny Care
Richard Wigglesworth
Ben Youngs

Fly halves
Owen Farrell
George Ford

Centres
Brad Barritt
Sam Burgess
Jonathan Joseph
Henry Slade
Luther Burrell

Back three
Mike Brown
Alex Goode
Jonny May
Jack Nowell
Anthony Watson

Goode never again. Barritt only if he's back to full form and looking very hungry. The RWC version was close on embarrassing

We have a heap of dangerous 15's of which Brown is probably still top of the list. I don't think Goode is on that list at all

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:I don't feel we need that designated 'ball player' for our talented outside backs to run lines off. If you are being selected at centre at international level then you should have the basic distributions skills to identify a team mate who is running a good line and pick a pass out to them.

I just don't think Barritt will do that consistently.

As liw says it depends what form he is and how he's utilised.

As he was a the RWC where he looked unfit and horribly out of form he will always struggle. Likewise if you ask someone with Barritts lack of pace to play 13 we wont have an iota of attacking threat. Likewise you nullify his defensive qualities at 13 because he doesn't have the pace to defend the outside channel.

In form he can distribute to an extent though. He does so at Saracens regularly when playing his best. He was also a FH early in his career so does have some attacking kicking skills. I remember one excellent grubber/chip kick last season to set up a try for Saracens.

He just never uses them at Int level. Whether this was due to how he was asked to play or his skills not being good enough for International level I'm unsure. Similar to Wood and Attwood in that regard.

Personally I wouldn't go back to him now. He's not showing form to barge the door down and if we want a strong carrying 12 with basic distribution then Hill seems a better prospect.

Tbh though I have always had issues with Barritt due to the simple fact that he can't pass of his left hand nearly as well as his right! It is something that will never fail to astound me that professional/internation players, especially in a position such as inside centre, have a weak enough passing hand that the attack need to use a noticeably different game plan attacking one direction to the other.

Barritt is by no means the only one guilty of this, Burrell and Manu should be better here as well. It is something that I can't help but notice whenever I see Sarries play.

Goode has only had 1 good game in a england shirt, and that was against Fiji...He's been shown up on numerous occasions since and should be 4th choice at best for england.

regarding the playmaker option, nowell and JJ have both shown that they can play this role for their respective teams, JJ has also done it for england. In the world cup he was dangerous everytime he got the ball, not because he was fast but because he could fix the defence around him and release the players outside. Brown also isn't too bad at doing this, though doesn't releases the balls as often as the others.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well, Gustard doesn't pick the team so it's irrelevant.

Fair enough who knew taking a view of an England coach would be so pointless to consider important to future selections. What positions if any do you think Jones will consider for discussion or will it be a dictatorship across selection, training and tactics?

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:I don't feel we need that designated 'ball player' for our talented outside backs to run lines off. If you are being selected at centre at international level then you should have the basic distributions skills to identify a team mate who is running a good line and pick a pass out to them.

I just don't think Barritt will do that consistently.

As liw says it depends what form he is and how he's utilised.

As he was a the RWC where he looked unfit and horribly out of form he will always struggle. Likewise if you ask someone with Barritts lack of pace to play 13 we wont have an iota of attacking threat. Likewise you nullify his defensive qualities at 13 because he doesn't have the pace to defend the outside channel.

In form he can distribute to an extent though. He does so at Saracens regularly when playing his best. He was also a FH early in his career so does have some attacking kicking skills. I remember one excellent grubber/chip kick last season to set up a try for Saracens.

He just never uses them at Int level. Whether this was due to how he was asked to play or his skills not being good enough for International level I'm unsure. Similar to Wood and Attwood in that regard.

Personally I wouldn't go back to him now. He's not showing form to barge the door down and if we want a strong carrying 12 with basic distribution then Hill seems a better prospect.

Tbh though I have always had issues with Barritt due to the simple fact that he can't pass of his left hand nearly as well as his right! It is something that will never fail to astound me that professional/internation players, especially in a position such as inside centre, have a weak enough passing hand that the attack need to use a noticeably different game plan attacking one direction to the other.

Barritt is by no means the only one guilty of this, Burrell and Manu should be better here as well. It is something that I can't help but notice whenever I see Sarries play.

I agree with a lot of that bar the part I can't believe any coach at any level wouldn't say get your head up, play what's there.

belovedfrosties wrote:Goode has only had 1 good game in a england shirt, and that was against Fiji..

His best game was probably against Ireland in Dublin in 2013, when England won 12-6. Not much of a spectacle, but Goode's positioning and kicking that day were excellent.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Only 14 players Dave, you are confident.

Itoje & Laumchbury are not a viable lock combo, there's nothing there for the line out.

Oops. Nowell is missing from the left wing.

And yes they are. Itoje is a good line out forward.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well, Gustard doesn't pick the team so it's irrelevant.

Jones will obviously ask his defence coach for recommendations, and Gustard will obviously recommend Barritt. With Slade not available Jones doesn't actually have that many options. Burrell? Eastmond? Twelvetrees? None making a strong case. Devoto isn't playing much at 12. I've suggested Hill, but it would be a very brave call to use him in this 6 Nations.

So, with reluctance I can understand why Barritt will be the starting 12 in the 6 Nations. And if Barritt is at 12 I think we need Goode at 15. Or - if you want a left-field option - Rob Miller from Wasps (another former FH).

DaveM wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well, Gustard doesn't pick the team so it's irrelevant.

Jones will obviously ask his defence coach for recommendations, and Gustard will obviously recommend Barritt. With Slade not available Jones doesn't actually have that many options. Burrell? Eastmond? Twelvetrees? None making a strong case. Devoto isn't playing much at 12. I've suggested Hill, but it would be a very brave call to use him in this 6 Nations.

So, with reluctance I can understand why Barritt will be the starting 12 in the 6 Nations. And if Barritt is at 12 I think we need Goode at 15. Or - if you want a left-field option - Rob Miller from Wasps (another former FH).  

Which would be dropping arguably one of our only players who actually played well in the RWC shambles. It would be utter madness and if we accept it as a true premise (I don't, I think it's fairly hard to back up logically ) for me that is enough reason to pick someone other tha! Barritt all on its own, hell even Farrell at 12 if it stops us from picking someone who has already had many chances to not be crushingly disappointing compared to Club Form when taken to the international level with current flaws in physical attributes and key defensive parts of a fullback's game

 Rugby Fan wrote:

belovedfrosties wrote:Goode has only had 1 good game in a england shirt, and that was against Fiji..

His best game was probably against Ireland in Dublin in 2013, when England won 12-6. Not much of a spectacle, but Goode's positioning and kicking that day were excellent.

Personally I think he was average at best in that game too

DaveM wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Only 14 players Dave, you are confident.

Itoje & Laumchbury are not a viable lock combo, there's nothing there for the line out.

Oops. Nowell is missing from the left wing.

And yes they are. Itoje is a good line out forward.

They're really not Dave and won't start together, I would put my house on that. Neither lead the line or are in fact used as options that much. Itoje will not start for England in the 6N's.

The Tigers boys a purring over Slater at the moment. He must be an option...and he is a Captain.

Rugby Fan wrote:

belovedfrosties wrote:Goode has only had 1 good game in a england shirt, and that was against Fiji..

His best game was probably against Ireland in Dublin in 2013, when England won 12-6. Not much of a spectacle, but Goode's positioning and kicking that day were excellent.

That performance was all about positioning, catching and kicking and he was good

He also played a decent part in the win over NZ. Two swallows don't make a summer though. Had enough of him running the ball back (slowly), jinking, then getting smashed regardless to last a lifetime. Too slow, too weak, but otherwise talented

I hope the centres chosen will be Burrell, Hill, Daly, Joseph.

But to be honest if we are to go the pragmatic route, with a Sarries coach and game plan then I wouldn't be surprised to see Barrett there at 12.

What would people think of this backline starting against Scotland?

Youngs
Farrell
May
Barrett
Joseph
Nowell
Goode

A step backwards? Or necessary with circumstances?

Barrett plays for NZ, Barritt is the less talented English version.

From what I've seen this season Barritt has showed very little form. If Jones is judging players since he came over, Barritt shouldn't be there.

12 is a continuing issue and nobody is really throwing their hands up. I'm hoping Jones has seen something we haven't and he had somebody lined up.

I just don't get anything from Burrell. Id prefer to take the chance on Hill.

I really like Devoto but he's just not developing at the rate needed. He has the size, speed and distibutuon but can't nail that shirt at Bath, I wonder if he should move on?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I really like Devoto but he's just not developing at the rate needed. He has the size, speed and distibutuon but can't nail that shirt at Bath, I wonder if he should move on?

Im sure ive heard that about another certain 12 with golden locks that we have...in fact ive even said it myself.

If we play Farrell at FH then Eastmond becomes much more of a possibility

Yes it does...and Farrell is in great form.

I don't think Eastmond is playing well.

So its back to Hill.

10 Ford / Farrell
12 Hill
13 Joseph

ChequeredJersey wrote:

DaveM wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well, Gustard doesn't pick the team so it's irrelevant.

Jones will obviously ask his defence coach for recommendations, and Gustard will obviously recommend Barritt. With Slade not available Jones doesn't actually have that many options. Burrell? Eastmond? Twelvetrees? None making a strong case. Devoto isn't playing much at 12. I've suggested Hill, but it would be a very brave call to use him in this 6 Nations.

So, with reluctance I can understand why Barritt will be the starting 12 in the 6 Nations. And if Barritt is at 12 I think we need Goode at 15. Or - if you want a left-field option - Rob Miller from Wasps (another former FH).  

Which would be dropping arguably one of our only players who actually played well in the RWC shambles. It would be utter madness and if we accept it as a true premise (I don't, I think it's fairly hard to back up logically ) for me that is enough reason to pick someone other tha! Barritt all on its own, hell even Farrell at 12 if it stops us from picking someone who has already had many chances to not be crushingly disappointing compared to Club Form when taken to the international level with current flaws in physical attributes and key defensive parts of a fullback's game

You think Brown played well vs Australia? I thought he was poor. Spared England's blushes against Fiji and pretty good against Wales I guess.

I think Eddie Jones needs to get the right balance between athleticism and intelligent players.

It's not enough to be fast or powerful, you have to have the decision making and the awareness.

It's the reason I am not a fan of Haskell or May.

Tactically Lancaster's England were inept at times, hopefully Eddie Jones and co can instil some sense into certain players.

E.g. if you look at England's losses vs the likes of Ireland and Australia this year the tactical kicking was brainless. Need to pressurise the opposition.

Until there's an alternative who doesn't have the turning circle of an oil tanker and a slower sidestep than my grandma, Brown should be the starting full back for England, regardless of how 'intelligent' that alternative is

beshocked wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

DaveM wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well, Gustard doesn't pick the team so it's irrelevant.

Jones will obviously ask his defence coach for recommendations, and Gustard will obviously recommend Barritt. With Slade not available Jones doesn't actually have that many options. Burrell? Eastmond? Twelvetrees? None making a strong case. Devoto isn't playing much at 12. I've suggested Hill, but it would be a very brave call to use him in this 6 Nations.

So, with reluctance I can understand why Barritt will be the starting 12 in the 6 Nations. And if Barritt is at 12 I think we need Goode at 15. Or - if you want a left-field option - Rob Miller from Wasps (another former FH).  

Which would be dropping arguably one of our only players who actually played well in the RWC shambles. It would be utter madness and if we accept it as a true premise (I don't, I think it's fairly hard to back up logically ) for me that is enough reason to pick someone other tha! Barritt all on its own, hell even Farrell at 12 if it stops us from picking someone who has already had many chances to not be crushingly disappointing compared to Club Form when taken to the international level with current flaws in physical attributes and key defensive parts of a fullback's game

You think Brown played well vs Australia? I thought he was poor.  Spared England's blushes against Fiji and pretty good against Wales I guess.

I think Eddie Jones needs to get the right balance between athleticism and intelligent players.

It's not enough to be fast or powerful, you have to have the decision making and the awareness.

It's the reason I am not a fan of Haskell or May.

Tactically Lancaster's England were inept at times, hopefully Eddie Jones and co can instil some sense into certain players.

E.g. if you look at England's losses vs the likes of Ireland and Australia this year the tactical kicking was brainless. Need to pressurise the opposition.

Which is why having a good kick chase option in the form of May is useful

Could have done with that vs Australia.....

lostinwales I think a good kick chase just needs good coordination between the kicker and chaser. Don't necessarily need to be road runner to be good. Just need the right height and distance on the kick.

Bambam a backline is about balance. If you have a lack of intelligence in the back line you need to add some.

You do not want to be predictable. Mixing things up is important.

A try is a try - doesn't matter if it's a 50 metre scorcher that will go on a highlights reel or a clever kick for a winger to snaffle and score etc.

Our kicking is generally appalling.

We never kick for space or for touch 60m down the pitch. Always straight to their attacking back 3 players...or big number 8.

yappysnap wrote:I hope the centres chosen will be Burrell, Hill, Daly, Joseph.

But to be honest if we are to go the pragmatic route, with a Sarries coach and game plan then I wouldn't be surprised to see Barrett there at 12.

What would people think of this backline starting against Scotland?

Youngs
Farrell
May
Barrett
Joseph
Nowell
Goode

A step backwards? Or necessary with circumstances?

2 steps backwards

GeordieFalcon wrote:Our kicking is generally appalling.

We never kick for space or for touch 60m down the pitch. Always straight to their attacking back 3 players...or big number 8.

In general the kicking in the AP is pretty dire too. Generally we kick long and try and contain the opposition (Sarries do this well because of their defensive organisation), we hardly ever kick intending to contest the ball - other than attacking diagonal kicks.

In the game I was at yesterday the Munster half backs were rerally poor, but any time they kicked especially those between their 22 and 10 m line they would have players contesting. Sometimes there was not enough distance you would feel, but then we messed up, however the intention was to contest kicks. From thoise same kicking positions we always went for distance. Every AP team I have seen this season does the same.

I agree LT

Certainly with the falcons it has been abysmal kicking.

Or, you know, we could do a Henshaw and try Goode at 12 where he has the skill set to be an international starter?

Probably should have looked at that years ago Yappy.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Or, you know, we could do a Henshaw and try Goode at 12 where he has the skill set to be an international starter?

I'm not seeing that one CJ.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Or, you know, we could do a Henshaw and try Goode at 12 where he has the skill set to be an international starter?

Well he was at 10 for the U20s, and Sarries always planned to move him there with FB just being a stepping stone (ala Larkham and Cipriani). Hopwever for various reasons it never materialised.

Shame because I agree he has the skill that mean hec could have been, to paraphrase Obi-Wan, "the 12 we have been looking for"

LondonTiger wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Or, you know, we could do a Henshaw and try Goode at 12 where he has the skill set to be an international starter?

Well he was at 10 for the U20s, and Sarries always planned to move him there with FB just being a stepping stone (ala Larkham and Cipriani). Hopwever for various reasons it never materialised.

Shame because I agree he has the skill that mean hec could have been, to paraphrase Obi-Wan, "the 12 we have been looking for"

Maybe if he learned to tackle as well.

I think he does look like he could have been a more than decent international 10, but that the chance to become one is long gone.

Goode played a fair bit at 10 a few seasons back and it just didn't work. As Wales mentions, his defence is pretty dire, especially straight up.

LondonTiger wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Or, you know, we could do a Henshaw and try Goode at 12 where he has the skill set to be an international starter?

Well he was at 10 for the U20s, and Sarries always planned to move him there with FB just being a stepping stone (ala Larkham and Cipriani). Hopwever for various reasons it never materialised.

Shame because I agree he has the skill that mean hec could have been, to paraphrase Obi-Wan, "the 12 we have been looking for"

Surely Goode is far too slow and too weak for a 12 (though I appreciate they don't have to be jet-heeled)? It's interesting you've compared him with Henshaw, against whom Goode gave up about 15 metres in a 40 metre foot race when he made his famous evasive break from under the posts. Goode isn't going to draw in defenders in attack, regardless of his rugby intelligence and skill. And in defence, he would be one of the less physical options available.

I suggest you play Farrell at 12, at least for the Scotland game....

My pick would be Burrell (between Ford and Joseph), but I haven't seen this Hill bloke play. If you pick Farrell at 10 (and his form is currently ahead of Ford) then I agree that an Eastmond/Joseph centre partnership becomes a possibility. I actually thought Eastmond showed up well previously in an England jersey, albeit with some errors that you might expect from an international novice. He's certainly a far more threatening and attacking option than Barritt.

Real shame that Slade and Manu are out. Two important options missing from the equation.

Burrell is another in the Twelvetress mode...ie just not good enough. Maybes at 13 but we have 13's and we need 12's.

Stick with Hill and give him games.

yappysnap wrote:I hope the centres chosen will be Burrell, Hill, Daly, Joseph.

But to be honest if we are to go the pragmatic route, with a Sarries coach and game plan then I wouldn't be surprised to see Barrett there at 12.

What would people think of this backline starting against Scotland?

Youngs
Farrell
May
Barrett
Joseph
Nowell
Goode

A step backwards? Or necessary with circumstances?

Pragmatic approach perhaps but Sarries do score plenty of tries these days. As they did last season too.

In the AP and ERCC this season combined they have scored 39 tries, conceded 7 in 10 games....

No matter how you look at it that's bloody impressive. That's been with the supposedly defensively fragile players like Ashton and Goode.

Would England fans be that upset if Gustard,Borthwick and Jones somehow replicate Saracens' form at international level? Even if it's with a Saracens core?

Oh and by the way I agree that perhaps Barritt shouldn't be recalled but the other 12 options aren't exactly screaming to be picked.

It's easy to say don't pick Barritt but that means you want Farrell at 12 or 36,Eastmond or Burrell? I don't think any of them are showing good enough form.

Hill could well be an option but isn't he injured too?

I haven't read it but apparently Paul Gustard has said in the rugby paper... that England must pick Barritt at 12....

Has anyone read it?

How upset would people be if Jones decided to include Mitch Lees somewhere in his squad? I have no idea whether it's a possibility bit his name his been mentioned a few times over the last week.

Goode does not have fantastic straightline speed, but I suspect no worse than Brown. Anyway as a 12 the speed of his brain would far outweigh any lack of top speed.

I really do believe he could have done for us in the last 4 years what Giteau did for Toulon and in the autumn Australia. Mind the way this board constantly picks at players when their form is anything less than sublime we would have pilloriued any coach for selecting giteau - and would be demanding McCaw and Carter be dropped if they ever gave less than an 9/10 performance, or some young kid had just put in a run of 5 decent games in a strong club side.

We (yes including me) are so damned fickle.


any way Goode at 12 will never happen now, I just feel he could have done a really good job there. Based on discussions I heard on my way to Leicester on the radio, it may well be Owen Farrell - and that is not ideal at all.

beshocked wrote:

yappysnap wrote:I hope the centres chosen will be Burrell, Hill, Daly, Joseph.

But to be honest if we are to go the pragmatic route, with a Sarries coach and game plan then I wouldn't be surprised to see Barrett there at 12.

What would people think of this backline starting against Scotland?

Youngs
Farrell
May
Barrett
Joseph
Nowell
Goode

A step backwards? Or necessary with circumstances?

Pragmatic approach perhaps but Sarries do score plenty of tries these days. As they did last season too.

In the AP and ERCC this season combined they have scored 39 tries, conceded 7 in 10 games....

No matter how you look at it that's bloody impressive. That's been with the supposedly defensively fragile players like Ashton and Goode.

Would England fans be that upset if Gustard,Borthwick and Jones somehow replicate Saracens' form at international level?  Even if it's with a Saracens core?

Oh and by the way I agree that perhaps Barritt shouldn't be recalled but the other 12 options aren't exactly screaming to be picked.

It's easy to say don't pick Barritt but that means you want Farrell at 12 or 36,Eastmond or Burrell? I don't think any of them are showing good enough form.

Hill could well be an option but isn't he injured too?

The thing is Sarries have always done pretty well in the Prem and in the group stages because they've purchased the players to dominate the opposition. At International level England will probably not dominate in the same way, much like Sarries in most play offs. That's why variety is needed from other clubs, and we can't just bolt the Sarries tactics in place and expect it to work.

If we could couple Sarries and Wasps defence, with Quins and Exeters attack, then we'd be set.

Geordiefalcon I understand the case against Barritt but the competition for the 12 shirt is not strong. There will be an outcry if he is picked but I don't think there is a correct answer.

Barritt - not attacking enough.
36 - hasn't lived up to hype
Eastmond - not in form, perhaps too small?
Burrell - hasn't played well at 12.
Hill - injured at the moment and inexperienced.

Rugby fan

Well you've got various posters championing the likes of Launchbury,Slater,Itoje,Kitchener,Attwood and Kruis. I haven't head this Mitch Lees' name until you just said it.

Has he done anything to warrant being ahead of any of them?

Yappysnap

Even you have to realise that the likes of Kruis,Itoje,Goode and George weren't bought - they came from the academy. The likes of Wyles,Burger,Taylor,Brits,Joubert,Du Plessis were not well known names before coming to the club but they've become better players now.

The core pack is young and English.

The Quins attack? It's not very good. Below Wasps,Exeter,Bath,Leicester and Sarries in my opinion. Above Saints this season but Saints surely are going to get their attack back in gear some time.

No brain power, just try and run everything instead of playing with intelligence.

You cannot break through.

Exeter - yes but that's because they have the grunt and power. They have a good balance.

I know you have an irrational hatred of Saracens, probably because you are sick of Quins getting beaten the vast majority of the time.

Of course you blame the salary cap for your failure but Saints,Leicester and Exeter can beat Sarries, surely Quins should be capable?

I think everyone would love England to replicate Saracens defence but we should be looking to sparkle in the backs. Rugby is about enjoyment.

Can I just say that I, whether Yappy does or not, do not hate Saracens, but Quins attack has looked excellent this season, with a still average pack, 3rd in tries scored (behind Sarries and Exeter, who have looked excellent)  and probably we've created more chances than the other two sides. I genuinely have been delighted with our attack compared to last season, though our lineout has been Poopie

Sarries attack has been good. I just dispute that Quins hasn't

beshocked wrote:Geordiefalcon I understand the case against Barritt but the competition for the 12 shirt is not strong. There will be an outcry if he is picked but I don't think there is a correct answer.

Barritt - not attacking enough.
36 - hasn't lived up to hype
Eastmond - not in form, perhaps too small?
Burrell - hasn't played well at 12.
Hill - injured at the moment and inexperienced.

Rugby fan

Well you've got various posters championing the likes of Launchbury,Slater,Itoje,Kitchener,Attwood and Kruis. I haven't head this Mitch Lees' name until you just said it.

Has he done anything to warrant being ahead of any of them?

Yappysnap

Even you have to realise that the likes of Kruis,Itoje,Goode and George weren't bought - they came from the academy. The likes of Wyles,Burger,Taylor,Brits,Joubert,Du Plessis were not well known names before coming to the club but they've become better players now.

The core pack is young and English.

The Quins attack? It's not very good. Below Wasps,Exeter,Bath,Leicester and Sarries in my opinion. Above Saints this season but Saints surely are going to get their attack back in gear some time.

No brain power, just try and run everything instead of playing with intelligence.

You cannot break through.

Exeter - yes but that's because they have the grunt and power. They have a good balance.

I know you have an irrational hatred of Saracens, probably because you are sick of Quins getting beaten the vast majority of the time.

Of course you blame the salary cap for your failure but Saints,Leicester and Exeter can beat Sarries, surely Quins should be capable?

Wow

ChequeredJersey wrote:Can I just say that I, whether Yappy does or not, do not hate Saracens, but Quins attack has looked excellent this season, with a still average pack, 3rd in tries scored (behind Sarries and Exeter, who have looked excellent)  and probably we've created more chances than the other two sides. I genuinely have been delighted with our attack compared to last season, though our lineout has been Poopie

Agreed, it has been a pleasure to watch. I could also have mentioned Wasps and Tigers attacking games as well but for simplicities sake just went for those two.

Both also don't need to dominate the opposition to implement it, and are happy attacking when their packs are only gaining parity.