606 Selects Englands EPS for 2016 6Ns - Take 2

First topic message reminder :

Name your 33 man EPS squad.
It must include 22 of the following players.
Keep any injured players in as they can be replaced later - but state who you would have on standby.

I will add up and produce the consensus next week.

Current Squad


Props
Kieran Brookes
Dan Cole
Joe Marler
Mako Vunipola
David Wilson

Hookers
Jamie George
Rob Webber
Tom Youngs

Second rows
George Kruis
Joe Launchbury
Courtney Lawes
Geoff Parling

Back rows
James Haskell
Ben Morgan
Chris Robshaw
Billy Vunipola
Tom Wood
Calum Clark

Scrum halves
Danny Care
Richard Wigglesworth
Ben Youngs

Fly halves
Owen Farrell
George Ford

Centres
Brad Barritt
Sam Burgess
Jonathan Joseph
Henry Slade
Luther Burrell

Back three
Mike Brown
Alex Goode
Jonny May
Jack Nowell
Anthony Watson

Chequeredjersey creating chances isn't scoring though. Last week Wasps created plenty of chances vs Bath but only scored 1 to Bath's 3.

I am not just talking about this season. Does a handful of good attacking games make up for a couple of seasons of mediocrity in attack? It's not a full season yet.

Perhaps I am being overly harsh on Quins, I just think you still have a lot to prove in attack still. I certainly don't think Quins are the benchmark in attack.

no 7 & 1/2 rugby is about playing intelligently and making the right decisions in my opinion.

I guess you would rather lose playing beautifully than win pragmatically.

Beshocked ive supported Barritt a hell of a lot. And in all honesty if hes bang in form, then I could happily have him in.

He wasn't fit or in form in the WC like so many others in the WC squad...and this lead to the debacle that we saw in October.

IF we have Ford and Joseph, then Barritt would be ideal at a time we don't have slade or any other genuine contender.

My only reasoning for Hill is that he's a regular starter for his club and is young so has hopefully a big future.

But if on form i would have Barritt over Twelvetrees or Burrell.

I think there does need to be a balance but 1 slanted towards entertainment. For instance I support Boro in footy; Steve McClaren is our most successful manager sides built on defence.Bryan Robson lost 2 cup finals and got us relegated. Given the choice I'd rather go back to that 96 97 season over 04 cos it was simply great to watch.

Also given the resources players etc Jones has isn't it realistic to want a winning team thats great to watch?

Geordiefalcon I agree I think perhaps Hill should get a go if he's playing well enough and is fit.

Happy to let Barritt go if there are better alternatives. I just don't think the likes of Burrell,36 or Eastmond are. Burrell is fine as a 13 though.

Don't want to see Barritt back at 13 if the England coaches do draft him in - I can see him at 12 as a starter only and only temporarily.

I see Quins as a bit of a flat track bully side. When on the front foot and able to bully the opposition then they look devastating, but when up against more physical teams at the higher end of the table they tend to buckle a bit, and are not so able to get that front foot ball. I think Roberts coming on board will go some way to addressing that.

This whole debate around who should play 12 for England has been raging for more than a decade!! I can't believe there isn't a single player out there able to grasp the opportunity, so that we can start to talk about something else!!

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think there does need to be a balance but 1 slanted towards entertainment. For instance I support Boro in footy; Steve McClaren is our most successful manager sides built on defence.Bryan Robson lost 2 cup finals and got us relegated. Given the choice I'd rather go back to that 96 97 season over 04 cos it was simply great to watch.

Also given the resources players etc Jones has isn't it realistic to want a winning team thats great to watch?

Juninho, Emerson and The White Feather. Exciting times!

The critical point for 1-15 is that we should only choose players who are fully fit!

None of this picking players who might have recovered etc.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I see Quins as a bit of a flat track bully side. When on the front foot and able to bully the opposition then they look devastating, but when up against more physical teams at the higher end of the table they tend to buckle a bit, and are not so able to get that front foot ball. I think Roberts coming on board will go some way to addressing that.

This whole debate around who should play 12 for England has been raging for more than a decade!! I can't believe there isn't a single player out there able to grasp the opportunity, so that we can start to talk about something else!!

I can count the numbers of times we have physically bullied the opposition in 10 seasons on about 4 hands

funnyExiledScot wrote:I see Quins as a bit of a flat track bully side. When on the front foot and able to bully the opposition then they look devastating, but when up against more physical teams at the higher end of the table they tend to buckle a bit, and are not so able to get that front foot ball. I think Roberts coming on board will go some way to addressing that.

This whole debate around who should play 12 for England has been raging for more than a decade!! [b]I can't believe there isn't a single player out there able to grasp the opportunity, so that we can start to talk about something else!![b]

In hindsight Anthony Allen really should have been given another opportunity.

As for now...we have options lets hope one of them takes the bull by the horns and nails that spot.

Maybe it will require a player changing spots. Tana Umaga was a winger who became a class 12. Didn't Nonu and I think Darcy was a winger before moving to 12? What about someone like Nowell moving inward? Or Rokoduguni.

Agreed on Allen. An Allen/Tuilagi combination could have been very useful indeed.

For what it's worth I think Manu should focus on 12 when he returns, with Ford and Joseph either side. Eddie Jones is a good enough coach to make that work.

FES to be fair most teams struggle a bit when they can't get front foot ball but as you say Quins struggle against more physical teams. I just think they lack a bit of forward power compared to their main rivals.

Roberts is a good signing I agee but I still don't think that will address a bit of missing physicality in the pack. Yes I know Yappysnap will inevitably blame the cap but it's clear to see that with the signing of high profile backs like Visser,Roberts and Yarde in the last two seasons what O shea's priority has been.

beshocked wrote:FES to be fair most teams struggle a bit when they can't get front foot ball but as you say Quins struggle against more physical teams. I just think they lack a bit of forward power compared to their main rivals.

Roberts is a good signing I agee but I still don't think that will address a bit of missing physicality in the pack. Yes I know Yappysnap will inevitably blame the cap but it's clear to see that with the signing of high profile backs like Visser,Roberts and Yarde in the last two seasons what O shea's priority has been.

I agree with all of that. Whilst I rate the trio listed about, a bit more grunt is required in the pack. That said, Charlie Matthews looks like a good player.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think there does need to be a balance but 1 slanted towards entertainment. For instance I support Boro in footy; Steve McClaren is our most successful manager sides built on defence.Bryan Robson lost 2 cup finals and got us relegated. Given the choice I'd rather go back to that 96 97 season over 04 cos it was simply great to watch.

Also given the resources players etc Jones has isn't it realistic to want a winning team thats great to watch?

Juninho, Emerson and The White Feather. Exciting times!

Along with Curtis Fleming, Robbie Mustoe and Steve Vickers it was quite something!

Quins are probably quite some way from being flat track bullies.

Saints, Sarries and in the past (ie when they used to bully sides) Tigers are/were flat track bullies. all 3 able to run in loads of tries when they dominate, but struggle when gaining only parity. Thinking about it the current exeter team also fit the bill.

Quins have been set up to be able to score tries if they get parity. Of course last season they rarely gained parity.

beshocked wrote:Chequeredjersey creating chances isn't scoring though. Last week Wasps created plenty of chances vs Bath but only scored 1 to Bath's 3.

I am not just talking about this season. Does a handful of good attacking games make up for a couple of seasons of mediocrity in attack? It's not a full season yet.

Perhaps I am being overly harsh on Quins, I just think you still have a lot to prove in attack still. I certainly don't think Quins are the benchmark in attack.

no 7 & 1/2 rugby is about playing intelligently and making the right decisions in my opinion.

I guess you would rather lose playing beautifully than win pragmatically.

I think nobody would argue taht our attack (and general play) last season was anything more than mediocre, and it remains to be seen how our attack does against a top defence (though it's looked good against Bath, Wasps, Tigers and Exeter and Montpelier), esp Saracens against whom we chronically struggle, but this season is not last season, else we would all want a Bath backline

CJ,

Having just supported quins above, I now have to counter and say that I felt both us and you guys looked like two lower middle table teams when we met at WR this season. Your attack was not impressive that day.

Yes it was poor that day, but this season that was the anomaly (that and the Sale game) otherwise it's been impressive.

As mentioned though, attack will always struggle when the pack are getting beaten. That's true for every team at club or International level.

Eddie Jones will need to pick a pack that can win the collisions, if we can do that then it'll matter a lot less who's at 12, as even Barritt has looked good in some games when on the front foot.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think there does need to be a balance but 1 slanted towards entertainment. For instance I support Boro in footy; Steve McClaren is our most successful manager sides built on defence.Bryan Robson lost 2 cup finals and got us relegated. Given the choice I'd rather go back to that 96 97 season over 04 cos it was simply great to watch.

Also given the resources players etc Jones has isn't it realistic to want a winning team thats great to watch?

That explains a lot

beshocked wrote:FES to be fair most teams struggle a bit when they can't get front foot ball but as you say Quins struggle against more physical teams. I just think they lack a bit of forward power compared to their main rivals.

Roberts is a good signing I agee but I still don't think that will address a bit of missing physicality in the pack. Yes I know Yappysnap will inevitably blame the cap but it's clear to see that with the signing of high profile backs like Visser,Roberts and Yarde in the last two seasons what O shea's priority has been.

Horwill and the growth of Twomey have had our pack manage pretty well this season, though Twomey is now out :/ 

The pack looks better than last season so far, largely because of Horwill and some young players stepping up. I would have liked a touch more power from 4-8 but maybe with Luamanu back we will get some of that. As you've said, it's early doors, just hope we have some momentum for matches like Wasps and Sarries and Saints away. This is not really about England though

Re Quins players for England, Brown is Brown and will be in the squad, and Care has been in better form (helped by Evans being in better form too). Lowe has been good but is rightly behind JJ, Daly, Manu etc and maybe the likes of Tompkins too based on his age. Yarde was playing well before illness, should hopefully be an option behind the 3 EPS wingers and Ashton. Walker still the same talented but flawed pace man who left Tigers, and Our other backs not good enough or English enough (Marchant or Sloan could be one day though, Sloan has been good at 12 but it's too soon and in his age range Hill is the better player)

Robshaw will be involved, I think, even if not starting, but likely now a 6, and Wallace is IMO not good enough for England. Easter too old, finally (probably). Matthews too hit and miss with using his bulk in the loose. Twomey too soon - is his good form a one off season or is he a future prospect? Marler will be involved even if he doesn't make the eps- he's experienced and form getting back, and will always be an option. Sinckler might get there in the future but not there now, plus needs to sort his temperament. Gray has become Poopie. Buchanan is good at carrying but arguably even worse than Ward at throwing. Ward is pretty damn good at everything (ESP ripping and the breakdown) but sadly not throwing and is probably too small to play hooker for England

I too mourn losing Allen for England

LondonTiger wrote:CJ,

Having just supported quins above, I now have to counter and say that I felt both us and you guys looked like two lower middle table teams when we met at WR this season. Your attack was not impressive that day.

Fair enough.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

beshocked wrote:FES to be fair most teams struggle a bit when they can't get front foot ball but as you say Quins struggle against more physical teams. I just think they lack a bit of forward power compared to their main rivals.

Roberts is a good signing I agee but I still don't think that will address a bit of missing physicality in the pack. Yes I know Yappysnap will inevitably blame the cap but it's clear to see that with the signing of high profile backs like Visser,Roberts and Yarde in the last two seasons what O shea's priority has been.

I agree with all of that. Whilst I rate the trio listed about, a bit more grunt is required in the pack. That said, Charlie Matthews looks like a good player.

Matthews is ok, but he's been our worst lock so far this season! Horwill has looked much better than I had expected and Twomey, pre injury, looked really good

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:FES to be fair most teams struggle a bit when they can't get front foot ball but as you say Quins struggle against more physical teams. I just think they lack a bit of forward power compared to their main rivals.

Roberts is a good signing I agee but I still don't think that will address a bit of missing physicality in the pack. Yes I know Yappysnap will inevitably blame the cap but it's clear to see that with the signing of high profile backs like Visser,Roberts and Yarde in the last two seasons what O shea's priority has been.

Horwill and the growth of Twomey have had our pack manage pretty well this season, though Twomey is now out :/ 

The pack looks better than last season so far, largely because of Horwill and some young players stepping up. I would have liked a touch more power from 4-8 but maybe with Luamanu back we will get some of that. As you've said, it's early doors, just hope we have some momentum for matches like Wasps and Sarries and Saints away. This is not really about England though

Re Quins players for England, Brown is Brown and will be in the squad, and Care has been in better form (helped by Evans being in better form too). Lowe has been good but is rightly behind JJ, Daly, Manu etc and maybe the likes of Tompkins too based on his age. Yarde was playing well before illness, should hopefully be an option behind the 3 EPS wingers and Ashton. Walker still the same talented but flawed pace man who left Tigers, and Our other backs not good enough or English enough (Marchant or Sloan could be one day though, Sloan has been good at 12 but it's too soon and in his age range Hill is the better player)

Robshaw will be involved, I think, even if not starting, but likely now a 6, and Wallace is IMO not good enough for England. Easter too old, finally (probably). Matthews too hit and miss with using his bulk in the loose. Twomey too soon - is his good form a one off season or is he a future prospect? Marler will be involved even if he doesn't make the eps- he's experienced and form getting back, and will always be an option. Sinckler might get there in the future but not there now, plus needs to sort his temperament. Gray has become Poopie. Buchanan is good at carrying but arguably even worse than Ward at throwing. Ward is pretty damn good at everything (ESP ripping and the breakdown) but sadly not throwing and is probably too small to play hooker for England

I too mourn losing Allen for England

That may well be the most honest and concise summation of a clubs players England prospects by a fan of that club that I've heard on these boards!

That said I'll be astounded if Marler isn't in the EPS. He may have had a poor RWC but so did half the squad and up until then he was excellent for England for 18 months.

Agreed on Allen, I pushed his case for a while during the Barritt years. To be fair he got injured at a poor moment prior to one 6 Nations when he may well have got another chance. For all of our mocking of Twelvetrees now, we all wanted him to get chances for much of his selection though and often 36 was the man selected when Allen was an option.

Up until Burgess I don't think the players Bomber invested in at 12 were bad calls. Barritt was a good selection at first to steady the ship, Twelvetrees we all wanted to see him shine, Eastmond was tearing defences up for Bath prior to his brief chance and Burrell had looked good for England at 13 so we wanted to see what he could do in his club position.

Sadly none of them worked out for varying reasons though.

Poorfour Senior made an excellent point about Marler when we last discussed rugby - he's currently like Vickery in that he's physically very good and technically capable but every so often comes up against (usually illegal) techniques in the scrum that he can't work out how to counter. It happened in that infamous game in Cardiff, and it happened again against Australia. Australia made a huge fuss about boring in (which has not been a problem in the past) and then had the whole pack walk sideways to make it look like he was much more out of line than he was.

He's young enough that the right scrum coach can help to fix that - though they will probably need to work on new things for each series - and his general fitness and ability around the park makes him worth investing in.

What makes Sinckler interesting is that I've now seen him adjust technique in several games to solve problems that the opposing props were posing him. I don't buy the nonsense about discipline issues; I can remember one bout of handbags. He needs a full season and time in the Saxons but should be developed. A prop who can step a back (albeit an Italian one) and scrummage is worth investment.

The other Quins player who's not been mentioned on this thread is Clifford, who looks increasingly ready. Squad initially, but offers enough that a bench appearance would not be out of place in the near future.

I forgot Clifford!
A season too early but he will play for England. Question is where and when. May even captain England though I suspect Itoje will get there and stay there first

I should also mention Collier who is very underrated and wouldn't be a bad option though Sinckler has more potential and there are lots of THs ahead of him right now.

When's the EPS announced?

As I've said before I think there'll be minimal changes by Eddie.

I think Cole may find himself dropping down the pecking order if he doesn't find form soon. I don't know if it was the law changes that don't suit him or his neck injury he suffered but just hasn't been the same since around that time

nathan wrote:I think Cole may find himself dropping down the pecking order if he doesn't find form soon. I don't know if it was the law changes that don't suit him or his neck injury he suffered but just hasn't been the same since around that time

I guess that would mean going into matches with Brookes/Thomas covering TH.

From what ive seen of Henry Thomas so far this season hes been pretty good...and so has Brookes.

Add in a few others and I think we are safe for the moment at TH. They're all young and gives them a chance to really fight for that starting spot and establish themselves.

Also watch Cole and see how he progresses.

Thomas has took a few hidings of late and doesn't look as good as early season. Cole seems pretty nailed on, Brookes has a good shout of a bench spot with Wilson looking drastically short of form.

Cole, Brookes, Thomas, Sinckler, Collier, Wilson....in no particular order.

England should have no concerns around the tighthead position, particularly when you consider the depth (or lack thereof) faced by rival 6 Nations sides.

Has Cole been playing every game for Leicester or is he being used with Balmain?

funnyExiledScot wrote:Cole, Brookes, Thomas, Sinckler, Collier, Wilson....in no particular order.

England should have no concerns around the tighthead position, particularly when you consider the depth (or lack thereof) faced by rival 6 Nations sides.

No concerns? Listing a bunch of THs doesn't mean anything.

Cole - has basically been the first choice for years by default, regardless of form.
Brookes - playing well but not proven as a starter at international level.
Thomas - again unproven as starter, is he in form?
Wilson - still mostly unproven as a starter because Cole has owned the 3 shirt, again is he in form?
Collier - is he good enough at club level let alone international level?
Sinckler - young hot head, potentially talented but inexperienced, still has a lot to prove.

When you look more in depth I think TH is not an area of strength yet.

You have players who might make it but there's no guarantee.

Lock looks probably the most healthy position but then again balance will be interesting.

England has the problem of depth but who to support?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Has Cole been playing every game for Leicester or is he being used with Balmain?

Off the top of my head, Cole has started every game but one since he reported back for duty following RWC.

Other than visit to Exeter, where Balmain was struggling at LH, scrum has gone well. Cole is back to being a real nuisance at the breakdown, securing vital turnovers in the last two weeks v Munster. He has even scored his first try in something like 5 years. He is perhaps struggling with LHs who twist and slip their binding, and he does need to find a solution for this.

ChequeredJersey wrote:I forgot Clifford!
A season too early but he will play for England. Question is where and when. May even captain England though I suspect Itoje will get there and stay there first

I'm not so sure on either of the latter two points. Clifford seems to me to have a more complete skill set for the positions he plays than Itoje does for the ones he plays. All he really lacks is exposure, but I don't think that will influence Eddie Jones.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Thomas has took a few hidings of late and doesn't look as good as early season. Cole seems pretty nailed on, Brookes has a good shout of a bench spot with Wilson looking drastically short of form.

So far, in the matches I have seen this season, Henry Thomas has been going backwards in the scrum faster than a French tank in WW2.
(though I do agree he should be better)

Defending Cole for a minute: The type of neck injury Cole suffered, though not uncommon, has a very involved surgery and can a couple of years to get fully fit. Everything in the spine is intricately connected. When the injury occurs nerves can be compressed causing pain, reduced muscle function, and potential for further debilitation. There is no guarantee, even with the best surgeons, that anyone can fully recover. After the surgery the core weakens even more as the patient cannot exercise whilst recovering. Cole is a professional athlete at the top levels of the sport. My sense is he is doing fine but is still on an upward trajectory. Let's see him by the end of the season before seeing the actual level he can return achieve.

Poorfour

Where do you see Clifford settling in terms of position?

It's easy to make a claim that Clifford is better than Itoje in terms of skillset but he has the same problem - is Clifford a 6,7 or 8?

Lack of exposure is not a problem? Of course it is. Itoje is starting in ERCC games, Clifford is not, Itoje is gaining more vital experience at a higher level.

Wasps,Exeter,Leicester,Saracens,Saints and Bath players have the benefit of the ERCC to prove themselves.

It's against the best sides in Europe where a player can do their prospects a significant boost.

Wasps players in particular are making the most of this as it's them getting the limelight.

Both Clifford and Itoje are a fair way off a starting England spot but I suspect they'll be both lining up for the Saxons soon enough.

Clifford is an odd one, he needs to work on one position and really go for it. If he can improve his ground work he has a real chance of claiming the 7 jersey in a year or two, I'm not sure he's big enough for 6 or 8.

Sgt Pooly Saxons? That was last year for Itoje. He's ready to be in the EPS now. Perhaps still too early to start vs Scotland but a bench vs Scotland IMO is a real possibility if he continues to stay fit and play well.

Clifford has the issue that Robshaw is now seems to be gunning for the 6 shirt, you have Dave Ward and Wallace as 7s fighting for the Quins shirt, old warhorse Easter at 8 - that's just Quins. Let alone talking about the dogfight for England.

No 8 is very competitive with Billy,Morgan and soon Hughes at contenders. Completely different type of no 8 which could work or against Clifford.

7 - Ksevic and Fraser are two of the main contenders then you have the Quins guys.

6 - Robshaw,Wood,Haskell even Slater or Itoje could be in the mix. Lawes has been used at 6 before too. There's also Ewers and Clark.

Probably other contenders I forget too.

When you look at the backrow battle it's hard to see where Clifford will fit in.

Don't forget Mark Wilson beshocked...

I don't see where Itojie fits into the EPS at all Beshocked, I'd say the Saxons and in the wider training group is as much he can hope for.

If he's gunning for lock, there's numerous better options getting in nice form. I've not been hugely impressed with Itoje at lock this season, perhaps he's suffering from 2nd season syndrome.

And don't forget .....

Theres only 11 changes MAX!

I think Itoje and Clifford will feature in the summer tour, not before

I see Manu has been back training for about 3 weeks now.

I hope they resist all moves...and just let him stay with Tigers for the season...and don't even both about him on the summer tour. Let him get top fitness and playing.

We have JJ and Daly who are quality. And Daly has a monster of a boot!

GeordieFalcon wrote:I see Manu has been back training for about 3 weeks now.

I hope they resist all moves...and just let him stay with Tigers for the season...and don't even both about him on the summer tour. Let him get top fitness and playing.

We have JJ and Daly who are quality. And Daly has a monster of a boot!

Agree. The panic move benefits no one, not the player nor the England squad. If he is playing at his previous level by the end of the season, maybe consider him for the summer tour. But that is a big 'maybe'.

Massive Maybe.

He's been out a long time. Give him the rest of the season to integrate back in to the Tigers team slowly. Gain his fitness and perform like the player we know he can.

I personally would say no to a summer tour. Give him the summer off...under strict diet and fitness routine. Then smash him preseason and have him firing for next season.

JJ and Daly are fine and even Burrell impressed me more at 13 than he did at 12.

The problem is there's no bloody 12's!

beshocked wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Cole, Brookes, Thomas, Sinckler, Collier, Wilson....in no particular order.

England should have no concerns around the tighthead position, particularly when you consider the depth (or lack thereof) faced by rival 6 Nations sides.

No concerns? Listing a bunch of THs doesn't mean anything.

Cole - has basically been the first choice for years by default, regardless of form.
Brookes - playing well but not proven as a starter at international level.
Thomas - again unproven as starter, is he in form?
Wilson - still mostly unproven as a starter because Cole has owned the 3 shirt, again is he in form?
Collier - is he good enough at club level let alone international level?
Sinckler - young hot head, potentially talented but inexperienced, still has a lot to prove.

When you look more in depth I think TH is not an area of strength yet.

You have players who might make it but there's no guarantee.

Lock looks probably the most healthy position but then again balance will be interesting.

England has the problem of depth but who to support?

It's all relative Beshocked. Scotland has one good tighthead, W Nel, and the others are all proven not to be good enough. Ireland - Mike Ross is reliable but close to drawing a pension. Wales - Samson Lee is their best, and has been in awful form this season.

Cole is a proven international quality tighthead with lots of experience. Off the bench (admittedly) I think at times Wilson and Brookes have looked better, in fact there's a good case for Brookes starting in the 6 Nations. That's three tightheads already who would have a decent case to start for England's 6 Nations competitors, and I haven't started on Thomas and Sinckler who have both shown more potential than anything Scotland, Ireland and Wales have beyond their starting choices (in my opinion). I'd certainly take them ahead of Jon Welsh and Moray Low who have both played club and international rugby and never looked anthing other than military medium.

The last definite date we heard for Manu was boxing day against Falcons. Since that report a couple of weeks ago nothing has been said though so I think most are taking it with a pinch of salt.

Even if he returns for Saturday I think it may be a little while until he starts a game anyway. After Falcons we have Sarries and Northampton back to back before returning to European action. Matt Smith is playing excellently, Seremaia Bai finding a bit of form again, new man Betham playing well at 13 (although he's really a winger) and Jean De Villiers about to debut. It wont be a case of rushing him back to resurrect our season thankfully.

I think he will be eased in with bench appearances and everything taken very slowly. Tigers have a clear intention to rotate more this season and that will definitely continue with Manu after a year out. It will be a case of if he starts one week he will be on the bench the next I imagine, with rest weeks thrown in for good measure.

He will be eased in slowly and even if he returns in the next week or two I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't regularly start until after the 6 Nations is underway anyhow.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Massive Maybe.

He's been out a long time. Give him the rest of the season to integrate back in to the Tigers team slowly. Gain his fitness and perform like the player we know he can.

I personally would say no to a summer tour. Give him the summer off...under strict diet and fitness routine. Then smash him preseason and have him firing for next season.

JJ and Daly are fine and even Burrell impressed me more at 13 than he did at 12.

That makes the most sense, which is why it probably can't happen.............