The Pro12 teams need to do something or else.

First topic message reminder :

Pro12 teams will not be able to compete with this, something needs to be doen, and done fast. There will be no decent players in the Pro12 at this rate, Rhys Priestland is earning 290K a year at bath, George North 300K at Northampton how are we supposed to compete with that ? I mean come on, Bath already had George Ford, I doubt Priestland will be a bench warmer on that money. Also news that teams are chasing the likes of Madigan, all our best players will be in France or England before long. Take a look at the money being thrown around in the Aviva:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rhys-priestland-set-earn-staggering-10560435

LordDowlais wrote:I think it has huge potential. I like it and I want to improve it.

How do you want to improve it in order for it to earn enough money for the best players to stay?

Huge potential? In what way?

Chunky Norwich wrote:Huge potential? In what way?

Well, for a start we have the diversity of having 4 countries. We should be building up the games as mini internationals, national pride does go a long way. Secondly, we need to get into the Italian market, they have a massive population, we should be plugging away in Italy.

We should also be playing our best players in the league more often, we should showcase the league, advertise games between certain sides with household names like Warburton against Sexton all over it, get peoples interests up in the Pro12.

Thousands of people in Italy, Scotland and Wales will rock up and watch their countries play, but not the teams who supply the players, we need to get these fans interested in domestic rugby. There is so much that can be done. Also, look at the situation with officials in our league.

LordDowlais wrote:

Griff wrote:Lord Dowlais, these posters are winding you up. It wasn't so long ago that they were telling wales to get their house in order and to stop letting players leave because it was 'damaging the Pro12 product', and that it was leading to a poorer league that sponsors wouldn't want to sponsor. Now that you're pointing out the same thing, that we need to stop the best players leaving, they're saying it doesn't matter. So clearly a wind up. They got ya.

I was just thinking this myself Griff. Hypocrisy at it's highest. On what planet is losing your best players good for the league ? Is this what we see the pro12 as, a development league for the French and English teams ? I for one am very worried about the future of the Pro12.Why ? Because I think it has huge potential. I like it and I want to improve it. But there are people on here who are happy with the status quo. the way we are going the Pro12 will die a slow horrible death. The money in the English and French leagues will ensure this. we need to find ways to keep our best players in our league. Not be happy to see them leave to make room for others.

Just look at the Scottish pro players playing outside Scotland thread. I was almost sick to my stomach reading that thread, they are sounding out players who can be time qualified to play for Scotland. This is not what our league is for. I just wish people could see the wood for the trees.

I don't recall ever saying losing our best players is best for the league. It is better for Scottish rugby however. Do you see the difference?

Newsflash LD. SCOTLAND ONLY HAVE 2 PRO TEAMS! So even with the best will in the world and 2 massive squads we can realistically only have 80 or so players playing pro rugby at any one time in Scotland. We have no other choice than to have a large crop of Scottish exiles.

Because we have only 2 teams we cannot get young players pro experience if all of the bonafide Scottish internationals stay playing at Edinburgh or Glasgow.

I'm curious to hear what you think we should do. My suspicion is you have no idea what to do and are simply on the wind up because you have nothing better to do.

So I pose you (LORD DOWLAIS) this question and try to answer it with a modicum of intelligence. With only 2 pro teams in Scotland, how can we ensure we expose our young talent to pro rugby IF all the Scottish internationals choose to stay and play for Edinburgh and Glasgow?

Sam Hidalgo Clyne would be stuck behind Laidlaw.
Kinghorn would be stuck behind Visser.
Johnny Gray would be stuck behind his big brother.
Watson would be stuck behind Denton.
Jackson would be stuck behind Russell or vice Versa.

do I really have to go on?  

What would you do LD?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:What would you do LD?

I have posted above what I would do for the league.

But you are all what is wrong with the league,and I guess Chunky is right, the league is not and will not ever be sustainable because we have people like you who treat it with contempt.

The league is not a very good product at the moment, and it is because of the attitudes of some of the unions involved, the SRU probably being the worst by constantly bringing over time serving players blocking the the pathways of young Scottish talent.

Is Sam Hildalgo Clyne being stuck behind Laidlaw such a bad thing ? Or would it make SHC up his game and try to oust Laidlaw ? You have a very myopic view on how our league should be run, and as as result you and probably many others in Scotland are so use to mediocrity that you are happy to be where you are now.

So is the issue not enough big names or not enough young players?

No 7&1/2 wrote:So is the issue not enough big names or not enough young players?

Not enough 6N international players.

And that is only one answer. There are quite a few issues we need to overcome to improve our league.

If the 2 Scotland teams had all the Scottish players would there be enough opportunities to develop youngsters and stay competitive? Or should the SRU pay the players to stay within the league even if they ended up at Welsh clubs etc?

LordDowlais wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:What would you do LD?

I have posted above what I would do for the league.

But you are all what is wrong with the league,and I guess Chunky is right, the league is not and will not ever be sustainable because we have people like you who treat it with contempt.

The league is not a very good product at the moment, and it is because of the attitudes of some of the unions involved, the SRU probably being the worst by constantly bringing over time serving players blocking the the pathways of young Scottish talent.

Is Sam Hildalgo Clyne being stuck behind Laidlaw such a bad thing ? Or would it make SHC up his game and try to oust Laidlaw ? You have a very myopic view on how our league should be run, and as as result you and probably many others in Scotland are so use to mediocrity that you are happy to be where you are now.

So would you rather it was like the French league? Where money is just spunked all over foreign players to the detriment of the international teams?

Finally you are presuming that players like Laidlaw and Visser moved purely for financial reasons. Don't you think there might be more to it than that?

No 7&1/2 wrote:If the 2 Scotland teams had all the Scottish players would there be enough opportunities to develop youngsters and stay competitive? Or should the SRU pay the players to stay within the league even if they ended up at Welsh clubs etc?

There are plenty of opportunities for younger players, that is what you have a squad for, I do not buy into the nonsense that such and such had to leave to give so and so a chance, if one player is good enough he will get his chance, and the person who's place he has taken will have to improve again to get his place back, there is obviously an interest for rugby in Scotland, I see it every time I go up there and watch Wales, these people need to be sold to the league, this will not happen if the players they are watching in the 6N do not play in the Pro12.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:So would you rather it was like the French league? Where money is just spunked all over foreign players to the detriment of the international teams?

Where have I said that ? I am saying I want the best home grown players playing in the Pro12 and not everybody else's leagues.

Here's a thought for you, if the SRU stopped scouring the SH for time serving players, there would be more room in the ONLY TWO SCOTTISH sides for the youngsters to get a chance.

Most Edinburgh fans were glad Laidlaw moved on as it means we got to see more of Sam Hidalgo Clyne, a more promising scrum half. On the other hand Denton moving on was a blow as he is only 25.

It limits chances and stunts development though; surely you'd agree. Even someone like George Ford moved away from Leicester in search of 1st team appearances. Problem with having 2 teams is there may not be the room in the other squad, hence my question should the Scottish Union pay other members of Pro 12 to take their players to keep them in the league?

LordDowlais wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:So would you rather it was like the French league? Where money is just spunked all over foreign players to the detriment of the international teams?

Where have I said that ? I am saying I want the best home grown players playing in the Pro12 and not everybody else's leagues.

Here's a thought for you, if the SRU stopped scouring the SH for time serving players, there would be more room in the ONLY TWO SCOTTISH sides for the youngsters to get a chance.

This all sounds a bit death eaterish to me. Only pure bloods can play for Scottish pro teams? Hmmm interesting.

Very interesting since you are bemoaning Visser leaving to go to Quinns, when he isn't exactly "home grown".

You are getting yourself in a bit of a tangle here.

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If the 2 Scotland teams had all the Scottish players would there be enough opportunities to develop youngsters and stay competitive? Or should the SRU pay the players to stay within the league even if they ended up at Welsh clubs etc?

There are plenty of opportunities for younger players, that is what you have a squad for, I do not buy into the nonsense that such and such had to leave to give so and so a chance, if one player is good enough he will get his chance, and the person who's place he has taken will have to improve again to get his place back, there is obviously an interest for rugby in Scotland, I see it every time I go up there and watch Wales, these people need to be sold to the league, this will not happen if the players they are watching in the 6N do not play in the Pro12.

The current Scotland 23:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Cowan 7.Hardie 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Russell 11.Seymour 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.Brown 18.Welsh 19.Gilchrist 20.Strauss 21.Hidalgo-Clyne 22.Weir 23.Scott

Pro12 - 17
Elsewhere (in bold) - 6

The facts would hardly suggest that our best players play outside of the Pro12, or that by turning up to watch Glasgow or Edinburgh the best Scottish players will not be on show.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:So would you rather it was like the French league? Where money is just spunked all over foreign players to the detriment of the international teams?

Where have I said that ? I am saying I want the best home grown players playing in the Pro12 and not everybody else's leagues.

Here's a thought for you, if the SRU stopped scouring the SH for time serving players, there would be more room in the ONLY TWO SCOTTISH sides for the youngsters to get a chance.

This all sounds a bit death eaterish to me. Only pure bloods can play for Scottish pro teams? Hmmm interesting.

Very interesting since you are bemoaning Visser leaving to go to Quinns, when he isn't exactly "home grown".

You are getting yourself in a bit of a tangle here.

Sorry I should mean, as I have said above 6N international players playing in the league.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If the 2 Scotland teams had all the Scottish players would there be enough opportunities to develop youngsters and stay competitive? Or should the SRU pay the players to stay within the league even if they ended up at Welsh clubs etc?

There are plenty of opportunities for younger players, that is what you have a squad for, I do not buy into the nonsense that such and such had to leave to give so and so a chance, if one player is good enough he will get his chance, and the person who's place he has taken will have to improve again to get his place back, there is obviously an interest for rugby in Scotland, I see it every time I go up there and watch Wales, these people need to be sold to the league, this will not happen if the players they are watching in the 6N do not play in the Pro12.

The current Scotland 23:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Cowan 7.Hardie 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Russell 11.Seymour 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.Brown 18.Welsh 19.Gilchrist 20.Strauss 21.Hidalgo-Clyne 22.Weir 23.Scott

Pro12 - 17
Elsewhere (in bold) - 6

The facts would hardly suggest that our best players play outside of the Pro12, or that by turning up to watch Glasgow or Edinburgh the best Scottish players will not be on show.

6 is too many to lose. I would rather see them playing in the Pro12. Also, this is at the moment. My worry is not so much now, it is what is likely going to happen given the money being thrown around by the French and English clubs, as the title says, the Pro12 clubs need to do something, and fast or we could see ALL our best players making other leagues better than our own.

Rather than slagging off the Scots, perhaps you should look closer to home. Does anyone treat the Pro12 with less respect than Warren Gatland? He pulls key players from matches so often that there is more chance of seeing Warburton and Gethin at the MS in red than CAP in Pro12.

So, you think that the Scottish Union should pay other teams to keep the Scottish players in the league? Or not pick players playing outside the league like England?

LordDowlais wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If the 2 Scotland teams had all the Scottish players would there be enough opportunities to develop youngsters and stay competitive? Or should the SRU pay the players to stay within the league even if they ended up at Welsh clubs etc?

There are plenty of opportunities for younger players, that is what you have a squad for, I do not buy into the nonsense that such and such had to leave to give so and so a chance, if one player is good enough he will get his chance, and the person who's place he has taken will have to improve again to get his place back, there is obviously an interest for rugby in Scotland, I see it every time I go up there and watch Wales, these people need to be sold to the league, this will not happen if the players they are watching in the 6N do not play in the Pro12.

The current Scotland 23:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Cowan 7.Hardie 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Russell 11.Seymour 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.Brown 18.Welsh 19.Gilchrist 20.Strauss 21.Hidalgo-Clyne 22.Weir 23.Scott

Pro12 - 17
Elsewhere (in bold) - 6

The facts would hardly suggest that our best players play outside of the Pro12, or that by turning up to watch Glasgow or Edinburgh the best Scottish players will not be on show.

6 is too many to lose. I would rather see them playing in the Pro12. Also, this is at the moment. My worry is not so much now, it is what is likely going to happen given the money being thrown around by the French and English clubs, as the title says, the Pro12 clubs need to do something, and fast or we could see ALL our best players making other leagues better than our own.

Stop saying it is all about money. Visser left because he was twiddling his thumbs at Edinburgh under Solomans who plays 10 man rugby. He is now back to scoring barrow loads of tries in the Aviva. With any luck he'll learn how to tackle there too.

Some players leave for a new challenge. Like Laidlaw did at Glaws. He has become a better player than he was at Edinburgh because he is gaining more experience in another league. Same goes for Jackson at Wasps or Richie Gray at Castres and soon to be Toulouse.

Let's be honest. If you were good enough to be sought after by multiple teams, and the Pro 12 could pay you the same as Toulon or Racing. Would you seriously stay playing at Swansea or Galway when you could be playing your rugby in Paris or London or the South Coast of France?

Well in the case of Blair Cowan we never "lost" him. He's never played in the Pro12.

The only player in that list that I really didn't want to lose was Richie Gray. He left Glasgow too early for a move to Sale, which was a bit of a disaster for him. He didn't leave for money reasons and said as much. He thought it would improve him as a player. It didn't. He then moved to France....for money reasons.

For the reasons stated above by both myself and by Radge, I'm not too worried about the numbers involved at the moment. The vast majority of our key players play in Scotland and in the Pro12. Should any of Nel, J Gray, Russell, Bennett and Hogg move away any time soon then I'll start to worry.

LondonTiger wrote:Rather than slagging off the Scots, perhaps you should look closer to home. Does anyone treat the Pro12 with less respect than Warren Gatland? He pulls key players from matches so often that there is more chance of seeing Warburton and Gethin at the MS in red than CAP in Pro12.

First off I am not slagging the Scotts off, so please take your mischief making elsewhere.

They are on here trying to tell me that losing all OUR best players to the English and French leagues is not a bad thing, I disagree, that is it. It might not be a big problem at the moment, but with the disposable income the French and English clubs have at the moment and the fact they will be spending more, it could become a massive issue, and that is why I want our teams to act, and to act sooner rather than later.

PS. Just for you to know, Warburton got himself injured playing for the Cardiff Blues in the Pro12 a fortnight ago and Gethin played against Connacht last Friday night.

funnyExiledScot wrote:For the reasons stated above by both myself and by Radge, I'm not too worried about the numbers involved at the moment. The vast majority of our key players play in Scotland and in the Pro12. Should any of Nel, J Gray, Russell, Bennett and Hogg move away any time soon then I'll start to worry.

This, the bit in bold, it is not beyond the realms of reality that those players, along with the Welsh one's coming to the end of their contracts, and weather they like it or not, it will affect the best Irish players in the future, will end up plying their trade in other leagues for more money and leaving the Pro12 barren.

So the solution for Scotland is?

No 7&1/2 wrote:So the solution for Scotland is?

Are you just trying to cause an argument on here ?

I am debating with Scottish people, not trying to tell Scotland what to do. I am saying the Pro12 teams need to get together and come up with some sort of plan to stop a player drain in the Pro12. I am not singling Scotland out, it just happens that I am debating with two Scottish people on the subject.

I'm trying to find out if you have an idea/solution to the perceived issue; do you?

Or would it be possible/likely/beneficial to implement either 2 I put forward?

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm trying to find out if you have an idea/solution to the perceived issue; do you?

Second post down on the top of page four of this very thread. Have a read.

LordDowlais wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If the 2 Scotland teams had all the Scottish players would there be enough opportunities to develop youngsters and stay competitive? Or should the SRU pay the players to stay within the league even if they ended up at Welsh clubs etc?

There are plenty of opportunities for younger players, that is what you have a squad for, I do not buy into the nonsense that such and such had to leave to give so and so a chance, if one player is good enough he will get his chance, and the person who's place he has taken will have to improve again to get his place back, there is obviously an interest for rugby in Scotland, I see it every time I go up there and watch Wales, these people need to be sold to the league, this will not happen if the players they are watching in the 6N do not play in the Pro12.

The current Scotland 23:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Cowan 7.Hardie 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Russell 11.Seymour 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.Brown 18.Welsh 19.Gilchrist 20.Strauss 21.Hidalgo-Clyne 22.Weir 23.Scott

Pro12 - 17
Elsewhere (in bold) - 6

The facts would hardly suggest that our best players play outside of the Pro12, or that by turning up to watch Glasgow or Edinburgh the best Scottish players will not be on show.

6 is too many to lose. I would rather see them playing in the Pro12. Also, this is at the moment. My worry is not so much now, it is what is likely going to happen given the money being thrown around by the French and English clubs, as the title says, the Pro12 clubs need to do something, and fast or we could see ALL our best players making other leagues better than our own.

15. Halfpenny 14. Cuthbert 13. Davies 12. Roberts 11. North 10. Biggar 9. Webb 8. Faletau 7. Warburton 6. Lydiate 5. Wyn Jones 4. Charteris 3. Lee 2. Baldwin 1. Jenkins

16. Hibbard 17. Evans 18. Francis 19. Davies 20. Tipuric 21. Davies 22. Priestland 23. Williams

Pre world cup, that would have been the most likely Wales 23, am I right?

So 6 is too many for Scotland to have overseas with their 2 pro clubs, but its fine for Wales to have 9 overseas with their 4?

Doesn't really touch upon the short term problem though for Scotland. How do you keep the players there in the first place. A solution of bill it as Scotland (Gray) vs Wales (Biggar) is unlikely to keep players there in spite of the money elsewhere is it?

As pointed out on another thread, the Welsh regions use just as many, if not more, NWQ players in their set-ups than the two Scottish sides have NSQ.

BamBam wrote:So 6 is too many for Scotland to have overseas with their 2 pro clubs, but its fine for Wales to have 9 overseas with their 4?

No it's not fine. Why would you think that I would say otherwise ?

We need these players in our league, not in somebody else's and improving their leagues. Where have I ever said anything different ?

Hopefully, with the WRU working with the regions with the DC we might stop this in Wales, but not if the English and French teams are going to start offering 300k+ for our players we wont, and this worries me.

funnyExiledScot wrote:As pointed out on another thread, the Welsh regions use just as many, if not more, NWQ players in their set-ups than the two Scottish sides have NSQ.

Again, what has this got to do with keeping our best 6N players in the league ? Or are you just looking for something else ?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doesn't really touch upon the short term problem though for Scotland. How do you keep the players there in the first place. A solution of bill it as Scotland (Gray) vs Wales (Biggar) is unlikely to keep players there in spite of the money elsewhere is it?

Biggar has just signed a 4 year contract to stay in Wales hopefully more players will follow suit. I do not know what Scotland will/can do.

Thanks, so no solution just problems. Given Scotland have chosen they won't compete with the money offered but let players go and develop further players that's the way it'll have to be I guess.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thanks, so no solution just problems. Given Scotland have chosen they won't compete with the money offered but let players go and develop further players that's the way it'll have to be I guess.

Look as I have said previous on this thread, if I had the answers I would not be working for myself, I would be in the pro12 ivory towers sorting it out, I have given what I think needs to be done, but you do not acknowledge it, that is not my fault.

This is something the clubs/regions/provinces need to get together with and sort out, unless they do not give two friggs about losing their best players to teams outside the Pro12.

I've acknowledged it and said it won't help short term for the Scottish clubs, plus I don't see a big issue for the Pro 12.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've acknowledged it and said it won't help short term for the Scottish clubs, plus I don't see a big issue for the Pro 12.

You wouldn't, you are not a supporter of it. The big issue is, ALL our best players could leave and play in other leagues for more money. It is something we need to sort out.

LordDowlais wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:For the reasons stated above by both myself and by Radge, I'm not too worried about the numbers involved at the moment. The vast majority of our key players play in Scotland and in the Pro12. Should any of Nel, J Gray, Russell, Bennett and Hogg move away any time soon then I'll start to worry.

This, the bit in bold, it is not beyond the realms of reality that those players, along with the Welsh one's coming to the end of their contracts, and weather they like it or not, it will affect the best Irish players in the future, will end up plying their trade in other leagues for more money and leaving the Pro12 barren.

It's already affecting the Irish players but not to the extent that there is an exodus. The wealth elsewhere has given players a stronger negotiating position and stick to beat the IRFU with.

SOB, Heaslip, Pienaar etc have all had big offers from France and turned them down to stay in Ireland and in Pienaars case for less money.

The IRFUs player management scheme has the benefit of demanding less of players per season in comparison to the Top 14, this should prolong their careers meaning that they can earn more in the long term.

Part of the scheme also has the Non Irish Qualified limits which puts greater emphasis on developing Irish players and creating new stars, weren't you emphasising the importance of seeing local players to the casual fan?

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've acknowledged it and said it won't help short term for the Scottish clubs, plus I don't see a big issue for the Pro 12.

You wouldn't, you are not a supporter of it. The big issue is, ALL our best players could leave and play in other leagues for more money. It is something we need to sort out.

Why would you need to be a supporter to see issues? Ireland are keeping their best players there; Wales have just tied up their big player and are bringing players back, Scotland have decided at something different.

Lord - it has been explained to you over and over again why Scotland is content to see many players go. We only have two pro teams. If Laidlaw had stayed then Sam Hidalgo Clyne would not have got the chance to play and to develop into a real challenger - and thus when Laidlaw retired we would have no one to replace him. Dentons going - tho that is a loss means Watson can get game time. Vissers going has led to room for Kinghorn to get first team exposure. Both Laidlaw and Visser look to be rejuvenated by their moves. Maitland wanted to play full back not wing and couldn't get a game at full back in Scotland - his moving on means Scotland will have another choice at full back once he grows into that roole
Each player is different but its often good both for the player concerned, their understudy and the scots national team to have players moving on

At Scrum half we now have 3 players getting regular first team rugby. If laidlaw stayed in Scotland we would only have two and SHC would not have had the chance to develop as he has done.

BTW - Big Tacky is a player the scots fans are excited about seeing

Sorry - you simply are wrong on this - completely barking up the wrong tree.

You do not understand the realities of the situation. You need to look at the wider picture

Plus there's a similar case which could be made for the Aviva. France has a truck load of money the RFU have helped the clubs with the ruling that players playing in England will only be chosen for England and pay money for EQ players quotas to each team.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've acknowledged it and said it won't help short term for the Scottish clubs, plus I don't see a big issue for the Pro 12.

You wouldn't, you are not a supporter of it. The big issue is, ALL our best players could leave and play in other leagues for more money. It is something we need to sort out.

Why would you need to be a supporter to see issues? Ireland are keeping their best players there; Wales have just tied up their big player and are bringing players back, Scotland have decided at something different.

Scotland have had to, the SRU had over £10m in debt to clear off so couldn't afford to keep players. They cleared this with the BT Murrayfield deal.

With 2 teams they also could keep players for some positions, at fly half they have Jackson, Weir and Russell at Glasgow and Tonks at Edinburgh and Laidlaw was able to cover 10 too with Hidalgo-Clyne, Kennedy and Pyrgos covering scrum half theres just not enough games for everyone

LordDowlais wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:As pointed out on another thread, the Welsh regions use just as many, if not more, NWQ players in their set-ups than the two Scottish sides have NSQ.

Again, what has this got to do with keeping our best 6N players in the league ? Or are you just looking for something else ?

I was responding to BamBam's excellent post where, with the use of facts, he points out that Wales have more exiles in their first choice 23 than Scotland. This is turn was a response to your suggestion that the two Scottish sides are merely stuffed full of "time serving" mercenaries, and that supporting Edinburgh and Glasgow isn't worthwhile as the best Scottish players have left to play elsewhere.

Just a comment that people in glass houses should not throw stones. On the NSQ and exile front, Wales are in fact worse citizens than Scotland in this regard.

I suppose a valid counter-argument to my proposition would be that the market for the top Welsh players is greater, given the relative success of the Welsh rugby team compared to Scotland, and that with greater success will come greater temptation for the top Scottish players to leave. Perhaps the best strategy for Scotland is to allow Scott Johnson to take charge again. The team underperforms thus reducing the market for our players. Most excellent.

And then the question is would it be better for some agreement between ALL teams to play each others players to keep them in the league?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Plus there's a similar case which could be made for the Aviva. France has a truck load of money the RFU have helped the clubs with the ruling that players playing in England will only be chosen for England and pay money for EQ players quotas to each team.

And Bath are paying Rhys Priestland 290K to sit on the bench are they ? I doubt it, Ford will have less game time now that Rhys is there on that money.

TJ wrote:  Dentons going - tho that is a loss means Watson can get game time.

TJ, i really like the theory, in reality freakin COMAN  has been keeping out Watson out of the starting lineup.

Yes Priestland is there to cover Ford, especially as he won't be playing for Wales in the near future. Unless you think Bath have decided to replace Ford?

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Plus there's a similar case which could be made for the Aviva. France has a truck load of money the RFU have helped the clubs with the ruling that players playing in England will only be chosen for England and pay money for EQ players quotas to each team.

And Bath are paying Rhys Priestland 290K to sit on the bench are they ? I doubt it, Ford will have less game time now that Rhys is there on that money.

Bath will want to win rugby matches, so I suspect they'll pick the better player by a county mile. He happens to be called George Ford.

Priestland will be used for games Bath will expect to win comfortably, games that don't matter, and when Ford's legs are both broken.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes Priestland is there to cover Ford, especially as he won't be playing for Wales in the near future. Unless you think Bath have decided to replace Ford?

After his last performance ? Maybe

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes Priestland is there to cover Ford, especially as he won't be playing for Wales in the near future. Unless you think Bath have decided to replace Ford?

Bath have also been operating with two teams for a few years now with different players bringing different qualities to suit their needs in a game