1872 Cup 2015, Round 2: Glasgow v Edinburgh

It's that time again. The oldest thing in world rugby. Seen here holding the 1872 Cup:



The social club versus the members-only golf club, the unwashed versus the exfoliators, the heroin users versus the social drinkers, the chips & cheese versus the salt & sauce, the ramraiders versus the online bank hackers, the knock-off Rolecks versus the original Pateks, the Gregg's versus the Pain Quotidien and the aggressive cardiac arrest versus the stress-related work sign-off for a fortnight.

***************************

                 

Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby
Saturday 2nd January 2016
At Scotstoun Stadium, 5.15pm.
Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Peter Fitzgibbon (IRFU, 66th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Lloyd Linton, Graeme Wells (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Montgomery (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)

C. Past Winners

2007-2008: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 54–49

2008-2009: Edinburgh Rugby - Aggregate Score: 59-31

2009-2010: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 47-27

2010-2011: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 47-46

2011-2012: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 40-35

2012-2013: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 44-31

2013-2014: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 57-50

2014-2015: Edinburgh Rugby - Aggregate Score: 26-24

2015: Edinburgh rugby 23 - Glasgow 11

D. Teams

Glasgow Warriors

Stuart Hogg, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Mark Bennett, Peter Horne, Sean Lamont, Duncan Weir, Ali Price; Gordon Reid, Fraser Brown, Zander Fagerson, Greg Peterson, Jonny Gray (captain), Ryan Wilson, Chris Fusaro, Josh Strauss.

Replacements: Shalva Mamukashvili, Ryan Grant, Sila Puafisi, Leone Nakarawa, Hugh Blake; Grayson Hart, Peter Murchie, Lee Jones.

Edinburgh Rugby

Jack Cuthbert, Dougie Fife, Michael Allen, Matt Scott, Damien Hoyland, Phil Burleigh, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Rory Sutherland, Ross Ford, WP Nel, Anton Bresler, Ben Toolis, Mike Coman (captain), John Hardie, Cornell Du Preez.

Replacements: Neil Cochrane, Allan Dell, John Andress, Alex Toolis, Jamie Ritchie, Sean Kennedy, Greig Tonks, Andries Strauss.

Very nice job as always GC.

Looking ahead to this game the big question is who should this Aberdonian support?

Glove, you should support Glasgow. Not because we play a much better style of rugby; actually giving the ball to the backs and trying to score those five point thingies, but because you have been supporting the idle rich tax dodging, trustafarian public school parasites for the rest of the year.

p.s. Merry Christmas to all my east coast brethren.

Well, Schiz is "on holiday" at Her Majesty's insistence so someone has to set the tone.

A few weeks ago I was quietly confident about this - Glasgow were on poor form and Edinburgh's pack were chewing up and spitting out teams.

What a difference a few weeks makes.

Glasgow seem to have rediscovered their mojo now and have worked out that if they give the ball to the behemoth on the wing then good things happen.

By contrast Edinburgh have had a few bad defeats and stuttering wins, and have an injury list resembling a Saturday night in a Glasgow hospital's A&E department.

If we had a near full strength team for this one I'd fancy our chances, but the one thing we looked to have advantage over Glasgow - the pack - has been completely nullified by a long injury list. We could end up with only one lock on Sunday if Bresler is injured and McKenzie is still out - not the best when up against Gray and Nakarawa.

Assuming the worst on injuries the team is likely to be something like:

Dickinson
Ford
Nel
Toolis
Coman
Ritchie
Hardie
Du Preez

Hidalgo-Clyne
Burleigh
Helu
Scott
Allan
Brown
Tonks

Bench - whoever we can bring in off the street

With that in mind Glasgow really need to be aiming for 10 points and Edinburgh will be lucky to get 1 or 2 over both legs.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Glasgow really need to be aiming for 10 points and Edinburgh will be lucky to get 1 or 2 over both legs.

Good to hear you are confident then!

The other reason for dismay is our utterly abject game plan - Glasgow are a team well set up to cope with it.

Glasgow are used to struggling in the set piece against teams so have to adapt to suit - they have a plan A, B and C. They usually get round it by playing a fast pace, attack minded game that teams just struggle to cope with.

Given that Edinburgh play in such a glacial slow pace I can see us being one of those teams, plus Glasgow will be able to easily swallow up whatever we (slowly) throw at them.

Tom English was getting very exasperated by how slow and ineffective our play was on Friday.

Joking aside, this is likely pretty big point in Edinburgh's season. If they do get turned over and don't take anything from these games, I think they can kiss top 6 goodbye again.

Pivotal is probably the word I am looking for and if Glasgow do hit some form and the weather is dry, it could be messy!

I'm not buying this Edinbugger hair shirt wearing for one moment.

Glasgow took 4 injuries in yesterdays game:

Gray and Blair both concussed, Harley dislocated his thumb and Dunbar limped off with a tight hamstring.

Harley definitely won't play and I would be surprised if either of the others were risked either, there are a lot of important games coming up and some rotation was always going to be required.

Peterson has played well in his appearances so far, so no great worries there. Hart looks like he is finally justifying his signing and Price will give good bench cover. I think we are not short in the back row either.

Still it should even things up a bit!

BigGee wrote:
Still it should even things up a bit!

You've still got a long way to go!

Do we know if Al Dickinson will be back? He is massively important to Edinburgh and whilst Sutherland is competent, he won't win the penalties off Puafisi like Dickinson.

Glasgow are hot favourites, but they were last year as well....

P.S. Nice work on the thread GC.

I would back any Edinburgh LH to win penalties against useless Puafisi..

The most important bit is if Edinburgh will be able to field 2 second row.

If it's just Alex Toolis fit I'd expect Coman to play in the second row. Not good! At the same time I hope Solomons doesn't play someone who isn't fit, only to have them break down for a longer period. Glasgow could throw us a bone and play Swinson at lock, rather than Jonny Gray.

I would definitely prefer them playing lightweight Swinson than Peterson who would add some much needed grunt to the Glasgow's pack.
I will try to stay positive, if Coman is selected in the second row, at least a competent blindside may be picked and we could see Hardie, Watson and Du Preez at the same time on the pitch!

I'm surprised Peterson hasn't featured much after a very promising start to his time at Glasgow - he adds a lot more bulk than Swinson but carries well and gets about the pitch too.

I'd certainly rather face Swinson!

VinceWLB wrote:I would definitely prefer them playing lightweight Swinson than Peterson who would add some much needed grunt to the Glasgow's pack.
I will try to stay positive, if Coman is selected in the second row, at least a competent blindside may be picked and we could see Hardie, Watson and Du Preez at the same time on the pitch!

That's a good shout. We know Glasgow will play fast and loose and a trio like that could cause them problems at the breakdown should they get isolated. I think Hardie will be the key player on the pitch for us. Not just winning turnovers but slowing down the Glasgow machine. He's an absolute menace around the rucks.

I'm generally not a fan of playing a Hardie-Watson combination, but having seen how many turnovers Glasgow got against the Scarlets it might not be too bad an idea.

Saying that, it would be a bad idea if we pick them yet play Solomons' usual style - we need big physical players to implement his gameplan and it would be even more ineffective if we had a lightweight back row while trying to do it.

If Bresler/McKenzie plus Manu are fit I'll be a bit more confident about this game.

Manu isn't going to be fit anytime soon, sadly. Read on the Edinburgh forum he may need a surgery.

If the front 5 is rock solid you can get away with having 2 lightweight flanker but with all the injuries in the boiler house it can be a problem.

VinceWLB wrote:Manu isn't going to be fit anytime soon, sadly. Read on the Edinburgh forum he may need a surgery.

If the front 5 is rock solid you can get away with having 2 lightweight flanker but with all the injuries in the boiler house it can be a problem.

That is a massive blow. So basically we now have one fit number 8 and two young unproven players.

I say a fit number 8, but he has been involved in every single game so far this season so he's going to be completely knackered!

To think that in pre-season we were excited about the strength in depth of our back 5 - a crippling injury list and Denton leaving and all that has evaporated.

If Manu is out and Coman is in the second row then I can't see past a Watson/Hardie combination. I don't think Ritchie would have more impact than Watson, and Bradbury is just a bit green for this assignment. Fine for both to come off the bench, but I think Watson would make more of a nuisance of himself, and he is a pretty decent ball carrier when he goes low (albeit sometimes gets his body position wrong).

Horrible news on Manu. Our squad is falling apart!

It is a shame Grant is injured too - he would add some solidity and experience to the mix.

Now stop that, you crazed exfoliators.

You're just trying to lure us into a false sense of security. Or getting your excuses in early.

jimbopip wrote:Now stop that, you crazed exfoliators.

You're just trying to lure us into a false sense of security. Or getting your excuses in early.

Is this you admitting that you hold concerns about our injury ravaged team?

Yes, I'm concerned that you're monolithic centres will incur self-inflicted whiplash injuries as they jerk their heads round, repeatedly, to watch Hornee, Pudding, , Richie V, Hoggie, BigT, Tennesse Tam and even Schlong slaloming past them to the line.

Yes I know I listed four centres, pick any two and their they're still faster than the dross Solomans insists on picking.

jimbopip wrote:Yes, I'm concerned that you're monolithic centres will incur self-inflicted whiplash injuries as they jerk their heads round, repeatedly, to watch Hornee, Pudding, , Richie V, Hoggie, BigT, Tennesse Tam and even Schlong slaloming past them to the line.

Yes I know I listed four centres, pick any two and their still faster than the dross Solomans insists on picking.

What do you mean? He's the fastest player you have.

BigT concerns me hugely. Tom Brown is many things but he is not the most physical player in the world and is giving away a lot of power against BigT. Helu might be better suited for the assignment, or even Dougie Fife. I'm not one for picking players to simply negate the opposition, but given we don't use our wingers for anything else I don't want to be giving Glasgow easy yards and momentum.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Do we know if Al Dickinson will be back? He is massively important to Edinburgh and whilst Sutherland is competent, he won't win the penalties off Puafisi like Dickinson.

Glasgow are hot favourites, but they were last year as well....

P.S. Nice work on the thread GC.

But unlike last year, we are not in position to give some Christmas Charity points to our unfortunately Rugbychallenge neighbors

Riskysports wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Do we know if Al Dickinson will be back? He is massively important to Edinburgh and whilst Sutherland is competent, he won't win the penalties off Puafisi like Dickinson.

Glasgow are hot favourites, but they were last year as well....

P.S. Nice work on the thread GC.

But unlike last year, we are not in position to give some Christmas Charity points to our unfortunately Rugbychallenge neighbors

That's the first I've heard of charity flowing from West to East!!

good to see 17,000 tickets have been sold. However its frustrating that I bought mine before the opened up the sections in the north and south, so I am stuck in the corner

Right ya soap dodging knife wielding Glasgae kissing benefits cheating traffic cone mis-using slum dwelling car stealing special bru drinking Greggs eating morning drinking ‘friendliest people in Scotland’ claiming bunch of neds – this thread has been far too pleasant compared to previous years and it is time to get things back on track.

You’re getting pumped on the 27th!!! And not in the IanBru behind the choir stalls with a 70 year old Alto way….  

Need to draw this to your attention gentlemen. Currently the 2nd top trend on Twitter (in the uk) with over 21,000 tweets is #ReplaceAwordWithSchlong!
Who knew Lamont had so many fans!?

Cuthbert at 15 with Tonks on the bench

Tom Brown V Big T

Shame Dickinson is still injured.

Fantastic to see Ben Toolis back though - that is sooner than expected. I hope he hasn't been rushed back.

Not much impact off that bench!

So that's the first 5 points in the bag.

Fife and Browntrousers versus BigT and Tennessee Tam

Cutbert versus Hogg

Burleigh against the Dancer

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CW6Kd-fWsAAtE_H.jpg:small

What a set of backs. In a composite side which Luvvies would get into that? Not even Monica Seles, methinks.

Frightening backline but the pack (second row aside) is a bit 'meh' - I expect a few scraps with Wilson and Fusaro starting!

Not much impact off that bench either.

Players not considered due to injury: Alasdair Dickinson (calf), Grant Gilchrist (groin), Roddy Grant (knee), Nasi Manu (neck), Stuart McInally (neck), Fraser McKenzie (neck), Jade Te Rure (knee), Hamish Watson (knee).


Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors, Sunday 27 December, BT Murrayfield, k/o 3.05pm

15 Jack Cuthbert

14 Dougie Fife

13 Michael Allen

12 Matt Scott

11 Tom Brown

10 Phil Burleigh

9 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne



1 Rory Sutherland

2 Ross Ford

3 WP Nel

4 Anton Bresler

5 Alex Toolis

6 Mike Coman (captain)

7 John Hardie

8 Cornell Du Preez



Substitutes

16 Neil Cochrane

17 Allan Dell

18 John Andress

19 Ben Toolis

20 Jamie Ritchie

21 Sean Kennedy

22 Greig Tonks

23 Andries Strauss

Good to see; Price, Samuel Johnson Esq and the Sekirk Pixie on the bench. They can get some game time once the points are wrapped up.

So that'll be about sixty five minutes game time for them.

So would the following head to head be fair?

1 - Draw
2 - Edinburgh
3 - Edinburgh
4 - Glasgow
5 - Glasgow
6 - Draw
7 - Edinburgh
8 - Edinburgh

9 - Edinburgh
10 - Glasgow
11 - Glasgow
12 - Draw
13 - Glasgow
14 - Glasgow
15 - Glasgow

Bench - both are a bit crap in general

Edinburgh 5
Glasgow 7
Draw 2


Or, the Jimbopip version:

Edinburgh 0
Glasgow 15
Draw 0

1. Draw
2. Glasgow, despite his World Cup renaissance I think Fraser Brown is the better hooker at the hooking and throwing stuff
3. Edinburgh
4. Glasgow
5 .Glasgow
6.You are having a laugh no-one is on a par with Coman. I'd pick Bru's 70 year old alto ahead of him.
7.Edinburgh
8. Draw, Ashe is the better athlete and more skillful but Du Preez is scarier.
9. Edinburgh, just but we could be surprised on the day.
10. Not even close
11-15 Embarrassingly one sided. Matt Scott now reminds me of a cricketer of whom Boycott once said, "You don't have to bowl fast to get him out: you just have to run up fast." If the Luvvies' centres don't get their first up tackles in then Hardie and Du Preez will spend most of the afternoon chasing the breakdown and have less impact on the game than they should. Glasgow will play the ball wide as quickly as possible, which with Dancer and Furra will be quite often. Solomans will come up with a new and innovative game plan which will involve "keeping it tight" and "let the pack drive it up". which will tie your back row in. I almost feel sorry for you.

It is interesting that you hold Burleigh in such contempt (indeed you laughed more about the prospect of him playing more than any other player).  Yes he's not an out and out 10, but he's a very clever rugby player with an eye for the gap and a big boot. He's certainly got a lot more pedigree than Coman or Strauss ever had when he came over here.

It's not as if Jade Te Rure is lining up against Russell!

And as for the claim that Ashe is a better athlete and more skillful than Du Preez (and hence implying that they are equally as good players) -

I can only conclude you don't watch many Edinburgh games (which is often understandable)!

Yes he's not an out and out 10

Seriously, when did the knitwear models last have a decent 10? Hornee is arguably our third choice 10 and he's streets ahead of anyone on your books at the moment.

Now this is more like it!

Does anyone else want to join in mine and Jimbo's poo flinging contest?

Will the Glasgow pack provide enough ball to unleash the superior Glasgow backs? For me that is a fairly poor back row selection by Toonie, not even sure Wilson offers more than Coman.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Now this is more like it!

Does anyone else want to join in mine and Jimbo's poo flinging contest?

I wouldn't dream of making fun of Edinburgh supporters.

God has already made fun of them quite enough.

All joking aside, Toonie's p!ss poor loose forward combo probably gives Edinburgh the aggregate edge in that area although Tiny Tim and Nina represent about as combative set of replacements as we have at present. I like Ashe and I feel he is underrated by the jessies but it remains true that Strauss is more influential.

Burleigh has a very good tactical kicking game and I have no doubt will skelp the arse off the ball all day trying to keep it out of play and stop Glasgow's backline building any kind of phase play.

Delighted to the bottom of my sandals that Dickinson is not playing.

Any ball kicked poorly to that Glasgow back 3 is suicidally stupid.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Now this is more like it!

Does anyone else want to join in mine and Jimbo's poo flinging contest?

I win, mainly because my poo is much more odouriforous since it hasn't had the benefit of extra minty mouthwash on the way out but exited by the more conventional passage.

RDW_Scotland wrote:


Not much impact off that bench either.

I think you might find that Favaro might make an impact or two on some of the Edinburgh backs! Sammy H-C better have one of his better passing days!

George Carlin wrote:All joking aside, Toonie's p!ss poor loose forward combo probably gives Edinburgh the aggregate edge in that area although Tiny Tim and Nina represent about as combative set of replacements as we have at present. I like Ashe and I feel he is underrated by the jessies but it remains true that Strauss is more influential. Not sure I agree 100% here George, the Tombola has thrown out a back row which is all about pace and I expect Glasgow to be looking to keep the ball as far away from the Luvvies front five as possible. I'm beginning to suspect that Toonie knows a little bit about this rugby malarkey.

Burleigh has a very good tactical kicking game and I have no doubt will skelp the arse off the ball all day trying to keep it out of play and stop Glasgow's backline building any kind of phase play. Agreed, but if Naka, Jonny and Batman are winning everything at the lineout then what's the point?

Delighted to the bottom of my sandals that Dickinson is not playing. Ditto, twice over.

Any ball kicked poorly to that Glasgow back 3 is suicidally stupid.

I'm positively salivating at the thought.

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:


Not much impact off that bench either.

I think you might find that Favaro might make an impact or two on some of the Edinburgh backs! Sammy H-C better have one of his better passing days!

No denying that, but he's a defensive 7 and not a potential game changer in the way someone like Hamish Watson or Josh Strauss coming off the bench would be.

Edinburgh's bench is particularly bad.

George Carlin wrote:All joking aside, Toonie's p!ss poor loose forward combo probably gives Edinburgh the aggregate edge in that area although Tiny Tim and Nina represent about as combative set of replacements as we have at present. I like Ashe and I feel he is underrated by the jessies but it remains true that Strauss is more influential.

Burleigh has a very good tactical kicking game and I have no doubt will skelp the arse off the ball all day trying to keep it out of play and stop Glasgow's backline building any kind of phase play.

Delighted to the bottom of my sandals that Dickinson is not playing.

Any ball kicked poorly to that Glasgow back 3 is suicidally stupid.

I think we need to be clever with our kicking play. Dare I say it, up and unders instead of long punts (then at least Big T should be catching under pressure and won't have much time to build up momentum), plus shipping the ball wide before kicking away. The advantage with that being that the wingers start running into the defensive line from deep because it looks like the opposition is going wide, then just as they get into the defensive line the ball is kicked into the space that they have just vacated. The Scarlets did that a lot last week to great effect - Seymour was caught out of position a few times because the wingers had to go up into the defensive line.

With that in mind is seems crazy that Tonks is on the bench over Cutherbert. Fife isn't as good as Seymour that's for sure but one of his redeaming traits is that he is an excellent kick-chase winger. Let's face it, he's had plenty practice under Solomons!

This is a slam dunk. The Glasgow pack will be standing in the cold waiting for the ball. The soap dodgers have a duff pack and an Edinburgh reject to ship the ball out. They could have Cullen, Lomu and Campese in the back three for all it would matter.

Edinburgh 18 - 6 Glasgow.

No doubt.