European Tour 2016 - Dubai

First topic message reminder :

Selected RD 1 Tee Times
1 07:40 Felipe AGUILAR Raphaël JACQUELIN
1 07:50 Renato PARATORE Mikko ILONEN
1 08:00 Romain WATTEL Jaco VAN ZYL
1 08:10 Matthew SOUTHGATE Kiradech APHIBARNRAT
1 08:20 Ricardo GOUVEIA Padraig HARRINGTON
1 08:30 George COETZEE Pablo LARRAZÁBAL
1 08:40 Marcus FRASER Brandon STONE
1 08:50 Victor DUBUISSON David LIPSKY
1 09:00 Jorge CAMPILLO Julien QUESNE
1 09:10 Tommy FLEETWOOD Nacho ELVIRA
1 09:25 Joakim LAGERGREN Soomin LEE
1 09:35 Nicolas COLSAERTS Alejandro CAÑIZARES
1 09:45 Richard STERNE Byeong Hun AN
1 09:55 Charl SCHWARTZEL Grégory BOURDY
1 10:05 Rikard KARLBERG Alexander LEVY
1 10:15 Shane LOWRY David HORSEY
1 10:25 Bradley DREDGE Matthew FITZPATRICK
1 10:35 Richard BLAND Scott HEND
1 10:45 Francesco MOLINARI Andrew JOHNSTON
1 10:55 Thomas PIETERS Søren KJELDSEN
1 11:10 Sergio GARCIA Haotong LI
1 11:20 Thongchai JAIDEE Ross FISHER
1 11:30 Joost LUITEN Jeunghun WANG
1 11:40 Martin KAYMER Andy SULLIVAN
1 11:50 Lee WESTWOOD Bernd WIESBERGER
1 12:00 Thorbjørn OLESEN Chris WOOD
1 12:10 Louis OOSTHUIZEN Rafa CABRERA BELLO
1 12:20 Branden GRACE Tyrrell HATTON
1 12:30 Rory MCILROY Alex NOREN
1 12:40 Danny WILLETT Henrik STENSON

Rose wasn't at his best during the Play-offs and certainly not at the Ryder Cup. He had also taken a rest earlier in the season, nursing his back.
i'm with robo on this, expect to see him test drive his health in the Bahamas, and return to serious action in San Diego.

As for fore, Zanotti got quite badly beaned last year, carted off to hospital with Aguilar riding shotgun, and missed a few weeks. Any reminder/sanction designed to mitigate the chances of a repeat is surely worthwhile.

Shotrock wrote:Ray - Do you have any data to support the "lack of shouting fore" is much worse on the PGA Tour? (I can't imagine this stuff is even collected ... but I seriously doubt it's worse on either tour.)

I'm with ray: Why would you put down US spectators by shouting fore - just when they think they're served mashed potatoes?

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:About time someone reminded players of this.
One of my pet peeves is just the way people hold out their arm, as if they arrogantly think that everyone around the course is there to watch them.

Absolutely nothing to do with lack of spectators, as our colonial cousins are every bit as bad as being tight lipped after an errant drive so there's no need to take a snarky tone that it's somehow ironic that the Euro tour is doing this, a lack of spectators would at least make it less likely a call would be needed, but I've seen plenty instances in packed US venues where the players are just as bad as this.

Shame they can't give them a "hurry the f*ck up" notice too

Actually... on site...  I've never seen either the player, or the player and/or combination of a LOT of people not yelling fore when a ball goes off line...  and I do mean not once, not ever that I can recall.  Generally the PGAT is so well marshalled at the tee-boxes and up and down the FW's, somebody is always yelling fore to warn spectators.  Now that said... I've witnessed a lot of cases where the warning is not heard 300 yds away down the FW, or the FW marshals are not paying attention like they should following both visual and verbal indications coming from the teeing area.  

But I agree with you that the snark is certainly unnecessary... just that coming from you the board snark king... it's pretty funny to hear you complaining about somebody else snarking on something....

The notice is to remind the members of the ET a.k.a PLAYERS to shout fore.  The PGA players are equally as guilty when it comes to simply holding out their arms and relying on someone else shouting, I don't have stats obviously, which I'm sure was your next point, but I've certainly seen it on both tours that the player remains mute. 9C is one of the premier exponents of keeping quiet, and his driving is more errant than most.

It's very common to see players simply mumble to themselves how bad the shot was and then just hold out a lacklustre arm as if everyone on the course is there to watch them.

super_realist wrote:The notice is to remind the members of the ET a.k.a PLAYERS to shout fore.  The PGA players are equally as guilty when it comes to simply holding out their arms and relying on someone else shouting, I don't have stats obviously, which I'm sure was your next point, but I've certainly seen it on both tours that the player remains mute. 9C is one of the premier exponents of keeping quiet, and his driving is more errant than most.

It's very common to see players simply mumble to themselves how bad the shot was and then just hold out a lacklustre arm as if everyone on the course is there to watch them.

Read the post again. I don't care what you think you see, I'm telling you what happens. Ask Kwini, he goes to PGAT events. The situation on the PGAT is fan safety is a high priority and group effort of everybody out there, and they take it seriously. You just don't see situations of an errant shot where someone, or a lot of someone's aren't both signalling and yelling warnings when a shot is going awry. If it's not the marshals doing it, you can bet the players and caddies are. It's just second nature.

And look... this ISN'T some "we're better than you" deal... it's just so ingrained here it's rarely if ever an issue. Now we have a LOT of people hit here, probably a lot more than on the Euro Tour due to generally larger galleries. But the problem here isn't insufficient warning... its when shots are way off line and people down range can't/don't see or hear the warnings ignore them or when crowds are so thick someone is bound to get hit despite the warnings.

And nice segue working 9c into it... hilarious as always... and I'm sure it's probably all his fault :-)

kwinigolfer wrote:As for fore, Zanotti got quite badly beaned last year, carted off to hospital with Aguilar riding shotgun, and missed a few weeks. Any reminder/sanction designed to mitigate the chances of a repeat is surely worthwhile.

Absolutely... IMPOSSIBLE to have too many reminders or take the issue too seriously... either on the ET or PGA or any professional Tour...

If there's any difference between categories of players, I would say it's more likely to be young vs experienced rather than tour vs tour.

The promotion of grip-it-and-rip-it with impunity on wide open courses is the biggest contributor in my view. Is that more prevalent on the PGA Tour? Can't say.

But regardless, a fair warning for everyone.

Kwini.... I have no clue about on the Euro side.... but from my observations the FORE warning thing has always seemed ingrained here from the AJGA, High School, College levels and up.  

Now over here....  I suppose if you or I went out there and paid close attention to try to identify when it doesn't happen (which admittedly I've never done), I don't discount the possibility we might see it more, at all levels.  I very much doubt it though. But in any event, I agree, bringing this to light and more warnings are never a bad thing at any level on any tour.

From my (random) observations on TV it appears players have been better at shouting fore the last few years, on both tours. A few years ago it seemed to be beneath the players dignity. In fact I think younger players are better at it, but they probably still have a bit of humbleness left. Again it is my random armchair observations.

And regardless if you attend tournaments in person or watch them in TV, I think both give you quite a good idea of what happens on the tee. Mind you, on TV you can easily watch 10 tee shots in 30 minutes.

robopz wrote:Kwini.... I have no clue about on the Euro side.... but from my observations the FORE warning thing has always seemed ingrained here from the AJGA, High School, College levels and up.  

Now over here....  I suppose if you or I went out there and paid close attention to try to identify when it doesn't happen (which admittedly I've never done), I don't discount the possibility we might see it more, at all levels.  I very much doubt it though. But in any event, I agree, bringing this to light and more warnings are never a bad thing at any level on any tour.

It's ingrained here just the same, , just that the higher you go up the game, the less people do it.
You only have to look at terrible shots on YouTube to see how infrequently the players actually shout "fore" despite the danger to the spectators.

I'm not saying it's a US v Europe thing, or that one side does it better than the other, I haven't even implied that, I've suggested it is the responsibility of the PLAYERS to shout fore, yet, on both sides of the Atlantic, many players just seem to wave and not shout.

The notice was to the players to remind them of their responsibility, and I don't think there would be any harm in reminding the US Tour of this too, given the situation. Why would any player rely on someone else to shout fore? It's not exactly an effort, and given that the player is the person with the best position to be viewing the flight of the ball, the onus is on them to shout, not some volunteer.

I have been appalled at how few pros on tour actually shout Fore when they hit an errant tee short, irrespective of whether it goes near attentive spectators or not. Holding out an arm, with or without a club in it, just isn't enough - how can anyone be expected to see that more than 200 yards away? And it is creeping into the amateur game as well. A couple of days ago, when playing on our home course at Leven, we were on the 8th tee when players teed off on the par 3 7th - not once but twice did balls end up on the 8th tee and not once did anyone shout Fore.

If anyone would like to see the sort of damage a golf ball can do, I have the "before" and "after" X-rays of LordPutt's elbow when he was struck by a miscued tee shot while driving a fairway machine when he was still working as a greenkeeper. I defy you not to say "ouch" (if only I could find out how to attach the bloody things   ).

Those are pretty errant shots into the 7th LP. I know they are relatively close, but you'd have to overhit your ball by 20 yards to hit the White Tees for 8.

super_realist wrote:Those are pretty errant shots into the 7th LP. I know they are relatively close, but you'd have to overhit your ball by 20 yards to hit the White Tees for 8.

We were on the yellows - still a wide shot which warranted a call. They knew we were in front as the course was busy and we'd been in front of them all the way.

7,8 and 9 are great holes on that course.

Robo - What, on earth, are you doing? Someone who's actually been out there and experienced the tour first hand and over time? How can we generalize and draw our armchair conclusions that support the snarky comments that need to be shared? Let us alone ...

Seriously, I most recently worked the US Open at Merion and did 3 4-hour shifts on the first hole. There were a number tee shots that snapped left or were pushed right and the yelling of "fore" was prevalent on every single occasion.

Shotrock wrote:Robo - What, on earth, are you doing? Someone who's actually been out there and experienced the tour first hand and over time? How can we generalize and draw our armchair conclusions that support the snarky comments that need to be shared? Let us alone ...

Seriously, I most recently worked the US Open at Merion and did 3 4-hour shifts on the first hole. There were a number tee shots that snapped left or were pushed right and the yelling of "fore" was prevalent on every single occasion.

Why are you still going on about this? Again, you seem to be missing the point. The notice is to encourage PLAYERS to shout. I can find a shedload of videos on YouTube of players doing NOTHING when they hit a bad shot to warn the spectators. I don't care if you personally have seen shouting, it is demonstrably NOT the case that every player does it. So what is wrong with reminding PLAYERS to do this?

Where did I -- or anyone here -- say it is wrong to remind players to do this?

Thought so.

Robo laughed that the European Tour was giving out this warning, and somehow thought it was ironic given that there is few spectators.

The point is, and always has been that players on every tour simply don't shout every time, instead just stick out an arm. I don't care if someone else does it on their behalf, it is the players who need to be doing this, not some blind 80 year old volunteer from Skip Bornhooter GC

super_realist wrote:Robo laughed that the European Tour was giving out this warning, and somehow thought it was ironic given that there is few spectators.

You apparently have me confused with someone else... I never thought that, said that, or made any such implication. IMO it's a serious important deal. All I was doing was pointing out that I don't believe it's that much of an issue over here... if at all.  But there can never be enough reminders for all of golf, on any Tour any other level. The only humorous part of this whole thread was the way you worked 9C into the middle of it... :-)

But it's not just tee shots either; bleachers and grandstands encroach so close to green complexes these days that fliers (or shots deliberately hit long with the promise of a free drop to avoid the risk of coming up short in a hazard) are just as dangerous as errant drives.
And they scarcely ever trigger a "fore".
But they all should.

kwinigolfer wrote:But it's not just tee shots either; bleachers and grandstands encroach so close to green complexes these days that fliers (or shots deliberately hit long with the promise of a free drop to avoid the risk of coming up short in a hazard) are just as dangerous as errant drives.
And they scarcely ever trigger a "fore".
But they all should.

Agree the intentional "long shot" happens... but I disagree they "scarcely ever trigger a "fore". About the only exception to that would be the ones where the even the player doesn't realize how massive a flyer (or bad yardage) it was.

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:Robo laughed that the European Tour was giving out this warning, and somehow thought it was ironic given that there is few spectators.

You apparently have me confused with someone else... I never thought that, said that, or made any such implication. IMO it's a serious important deal. All I was doing was pointing out that I don't believe it's that much of an issue over here... if at all.  But there can never be enough reminders for all of golf, on any Tour any other level.  The only humorous part of this whole thread was the way you worked 9C into the middle of it... :-)

That would me that posted it.

And yes, I was snarking about the lack of spectators as Euro Events. Did you see how many fans there were in Turkey last week? or the events in the Middle East? or the fans in Morocco?

The only humorous part of this whole thread was the way you worked 9C into the middle of it... :-)

You got to admit that SR is more creative than me! Even I couldn't segue TW into the discussion.

It is surprising that he didn't worked in a couple of his other obsessions.

Ooops, Strike That I better not press any more buttons. Mea Culpa

GPB wrote:

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:Robo laughed that the European Tour was giving out this warning, and somehow thought it was ironic given that there is few spectators.

You apparently have me confused with someone else... I never thought that, said that, or made any such implication. IMO it's a serious important deal. All I was doing was pointing out that I don't believe it's that much of an issue over here... if at all.  But there can never be enough reminders for all of golf, on any Tour any other level.  The only humorous part of this whole thread was the way you worked 9C into the middle of it... :-)

That would me that posted it.

And yes, I was snarking about the lack of spectators as Euro Events.  Did you see how many fans there were in Turkey last week?  or the events in the Middle East?  or the fans in Morocco?

The only humorous part of this whole thread was the way you worked 9C into the middle of it... :-)

You got to admit that SR is more creative than me!  Even I couldn't segue TW into the discussion.

It is surprising that he didn't worked in a couple of his other obsessions.

Ooops, Strike That I better not press any more buttons.  Mea Culpa

 

Easy.
Maybe the American golfers are just praying that their ball doesn't hit someone, so they don't feel they need to shout.

I actually didn't need to shoehorn the 9C in there, he's one of the ones I remember most for not shouting fore. He's usually too busy spitting or dropping his club to do it. While ArchBishop Watson is too busy admonishing his caddy to bother shouting.

Whomp, there it is!

Wouldn't want to disappoint GPB.

Sounds as though the ET is revoking Patrick Reed's Euro Tour membership.... Not sure of the details, but if that's true it appears as though sensible heads have finally prevailed....

I would like to see Reed maintain his ET membership if that's what he wants to do, but IMO he should be treated no different than anybody else RE the rules and regulations dictating membership. He's got to want it bad enough to make a reasonable effort to do so. And IMO he hasn't come close to doing that.

robopz wrote:Sounds as though the ET is revoking Patrick Reed's Euro Tour membership....

Maybe they discovered he voted for Trump

Davie wrote:

robopz wrote:Sounds as though the ET is revoking Patrick Reed's Euro Tour membership....

Maybe they discovered he voted for Trump Clinton

Fixed it for you

[quote="raycastleunited"]

Davie wrote:

robopz wrote:Sounds as though the ET is revoking Patrick Reed's Euro Tour membership....

Maybe they discovered he hasn't got a bloody clue where Europe is actually located voted for Trump Clinton[/quote]

Fixed it for you

Jim'll fix it for you and you and you and ba ba baaaaaa

A bit like the European Tour hierarchy in recent years.

Or most of the top players.

And Poulter

HIO for Zanotti, first HIO in Nedbank history. Unfortunately for him it's on one of the few holes where you don't win a Volvo. Think you can win a Volvo on 4 or 5 different holes, either by making a HIO, Albatross or Eagle.

He'd have to wait anyway. Aren't most new model Volvo's on a safety recall because their seat belts are faulty?

If he wins, he'll be probably get one anyway. Volvo, that is.

It's Africa... who wears seat belts...

pedro wrote:It's Africa... who wears seat belts...

That may apply to FZ's Paraguay also . . . . .

Stenson comes from Volvo's hometown and it seems he's belting it out as well. +3 so far.

I see princedrac's been at it again:
If Noren wins he reaches #9 in the owgr's, and with Stenson up above him Sweden will have two in the Top Ten for the first time ever.

I'd like to see Noren win this week. It'd bring some extra exitement to the race for the RTD crown and to an otherwise lame last tournament

pedro wrote:I'd like to see Noren win this week. It'd bring some extra exitement to the race for the RTD crown and to an otherwise lame last tournament

Alex is trying hard to make you wish come true, pedro.

Willett also showing signs of snapping out of his funk . . . . .

This is an incredible display from Alex Noren!

8 under after 10 holes.
59 watch . . . . . . . .

Flawless from Alex Noren!! Getting the results his talent deserves!

Alex Noren.... Awesome display.

Noren is without doubt the best player in the world right now. His last 8 or so weeks have been sensational. What a player.

super_realist wrote:Noren is without doubt the best player in the world right now....

Hideki says... But.... But.... But.....

It must be of slight annoyance that you hit the sort of form Hideki and Noren are in when all the majors are done and dusted for the year.

Noren has been in form whilst majors have been going on Mac. He won the Scottish Open.

super_realist wrote:Noren has been in form whilst majors have been going on Mac. He won the Scottish Open.

At age 34 it might be time for Noren to start having some form IN actual majors as well. 1 top-10 and one more top-25 in 14 major starts. He looks like an entirely different player now, so I suppose he will play better in them now.

In comparison... At age 24 Hideki already has 5 major Top-10's... Also in 14 starts.

Maybe Noren's healthy for a change.
Imagine he'll do just fine when he's fit, which he hasn't been most of his career, hence his small owgr divisor.

Ruh roh... Langer... INCOMING.... !!!!

kwinigolfer wrote:Maybe Noren's healthy for a change.
Imagine he'll do just fine when he's fit, which he hasn't been most of his career, hence his small owgr divisor.

Most of his career, or most of his "recent" career? I'm asking cuz other than the last few years I don't know. But looking at his OWGR line, it looks like 2 of his 11 full years were severely injury impacted... Not so much the other 9 years.

Some are just late bloomers. Jimmy Walker another example.
Let's hope Noren won't be a one-year-wonder, like his compatriot Edfors - who won thrice in a year, two of those ironically also the Scottish Open and British Masters - for then to sink into oblivity.