Tyson Fury - Time to get real about him!!!

This guy was thought of as pretty much a joke before the Wlad fight..........Think only non-Boxing fan Duty picked him to win.......

One fight later he's gone to a whole new dimension......respected all of a sudden....he's going to beat him...him and him !!.

What has really changed ?????

Beat a guy that either lost his bollox or was so stiff and old he couldn't throw more than five or so meaningfulful punches in the whole fight !!!...

If you thought he was a crap boxer before he beat Wlad.... there should be nothing that changes your opinion !!!!..

I don't think he's crap but I don't view him any different......

He intimidated Wlad who has feasted on smaller stiff after stiff and kudos to him for that......

But he's still the same fighter........Time some people got real !!..

What's changed? He put in a career-best performance that suggests he is better than most people thought and is continuing to improve (and therefore has become a better fighter than he was a few years back - pre-Peter Fury). He showed nerve, balls and no little amount of skill.

It's a weird thing, fighters putting in good performances and people rating them more highly as a result.....

The rematch will give us a better insight to Fury. Maybe he's just a guy who got lucky by picking an aging champ at the right time and gets either comprehensively outboxed or KO'd in the rematch. Maybe he repeats the feat and shows that it wasn't a fluke (which just leads to an argument that he's still not great, just that he has the wrong style for Wlad) Maybe he goes one better and knocks Wlad spark out then embarks on a run of impressive KO/TKO wins to cement his place as the best HW on the planet.

I'd be very surprised if it's the latter as he'd displayed absolutely nothing to suggest he had it in his locker up until that point. I see him as being akin to Hasim Rahman at this point. He's beaten "the man" fair and square but needs to do more to warrant all the talk of being the best HW on the planet. Enjoy it while you can cos it may all come crashing down around your ears.

I'm not sure about Fury. Fortunately for him, the division isn't stacked with talent. I do think he has some skills and a lot of confidence. Plus he is a big fella.

He doesn't have the biggest punch and that can be the difference sometimes.

AJ looks very powerful thus far, but is he quick?

I do think Wlad was terrible and I think he didn't enjoy facing someone, who can move and wouldn't be kept on the end of Wlad's jab.

I wasn't too impressed with Wilder either. I think Fury would beat him easily.

DAVE667 wrote:The rematch will give us a better insight to Fury. Maybe he's just a guy who got lucky by picking an aging champ at the right time and gets either comprehensively outboxed or KO'd in the rematch. Maybe he repeats the feat and shows that it wasn't a fluke (which just leads to an argument that he's still not great, just that he has the wrong style for Wlad) Maybe he goes one better and knocks Wlad spark out then embarks on a run of impressive KO/TKO wins to cement his place as the best HW on the planet.

I'd be very surprised if it's the latter as he'd displayed absolutely nothing to suggest he had it in his locker up until that point. I see him as being akin to Hasim Rahman at this point. He's beaten "the man" fair and square but needs to do more to warrant all the talk of being the best HW on the planet. Enjoy it while you can cos it may all come crashing down around your ears.

Don't think the rematch will be any different....

If he was intimidated the first time.............Now he's lost as well...It will be more of the same..

Think Fury's personality and body language in and out of the ring freaks him out.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:The rematch will give us a better insight to Fury. Maybe he's just a guy who got lucky by picking an aging champ at the right time and gets either comprehensively outboxed or KO'd in the rematch. Maybe he repeats the feat and shows that it wasn't a fluke (which just leads to an argument that he's still not great, just that he has the wrong style for Wlad) Maybe he goes one better and knocks Wlad spark out then embarks on a run of impressive KO/TKO wins to cement his place as the best HW on the planet.

I'd be very surprised if it's the latter as he'd displayed absolutely nothing to suggest he had it in his locker up until that point. I see him as being akin to Hasim Rahman at this point. He's beaten "the man" fair and square but needs to do more to warrant all the talk of being the best HW on the planet. Enjoy it while you can cos it may all come crashing down around your ears.

Don't think the rematch will be any different....

If he was intimidated the first time.............Now he's lost as well...It will be more of the same..

Think Fury's personality and body language in and out of the ring freaks him out.

Whereas I'd like to think Wlad is kicking himself for allowing himself to be intimidated by a walking freak show and will have a different attitude next time. Thing is, he's lost before and made the improvements required. There are questions as to whether Banks is the man for the job in the corner when it's not going to plan. Would have wanted Vitali in there screaming in his face but that's just me. Might be a wake up call for his corner too as another loss means retirement and then Banks is out on his ear looking for job whilst having the two losses to Fury on his trainer's CV.

Ageed with haz, he's improved. Look at chorizo 1 vs chorizo 2. He learned how to use his size stay on the outside inflict damage and avoid damage. He got zero credit, Derek chorizo got all the criticism. Fat McDermott mauled fury, do you think that fight plays out the same way now? Fury learned to use his size, he's become a different prospect.
Saying all that, technically he's still garbage in comparison to top fighters in any other divisions, but in heavyweight boxing, size definitely matters. Do I think he's unbeatable? Certainly not, I can't see him reigning long. Most people predicted a fragmented merry-go-round of heavyweight titles after the wk/vk era. Very few foreseen fury starting the new era.

I thought Scott Welch's corner did a good job in the corner against Akinwande...Dave.

But when you lose your bollox......You lose your bollox.....

Not that I'd know what that was like......My balls are the size of grapefruits......

They were before I took steroids anyway.....Now I'm struggling to find them...

I think Fury has showed glimpses of what he did against Wlad in previous fights - against Johnson and Chisora for example.

He just seemed to up his speed, fitness and sharpness a level against Wlad that made it world class performance in my eyes.

I think he has to start favourite against any heavyweight in the world now. Wilder and Wlad have live punchers chances as I am not convinced Tyson has much of a chin. I really think he would totally school Joshua and stop him late. As for Haye, we need to see him fight a proper opponent before making a judgment.

I think Furys last two fights before Wlad were a clue. Christian Hammer and Dereck Chisora are not top flight but neither are walkovers. Fury dominated to the point where they both threw in the towel - two fighters in a row! V unusual I would have thought. More impressive in some ways when you make a man quit who's spent 2 months training and won't go another a few more rounds period because it's futile. I suspect Fury is actually far far more awkward and cunning a fighter than people think because he's not conventional.

I didn't necessarily think he would beat Wlad but Fury is so confident and coupled with domination on his last 2 fights I thought he'd be much better than other Wlad opponents.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I thought Scott Welch's corner did a good job in the corner against Akinwande...Dave.

But when you lose your bollox......You lose your bollox.....

Not that I'd know what that was like......My balls are the size of grapefruits......

They were before I took steroids anyway.....Now I'm struggling to find them...

I'm sure Red has them in her purse

Armchair, Chisora had all the fight smashed out of him by David Haye. He'd given a good account of himself against Vitali and thought he was billy big bollox but found out that there are some fighters who can do lasting damage when they hit you. Chisora has never been the same. His weight in the Fury fight should give you a clue as to how motivated he was

armchairwarrior wrote:I think Furys last two fights before Wlad were a clue. Christian Hammer and Dereck Chisora are not top flight but neither are walkovers. Fury dominated to the point where they both threw in the towel - two fighters in a row! V unusual I would have thought. More impressive in some ways when you make a man quit who's spent 2 months training and won't go another a few more rounds period because it's futile. I suspect Fury is actually far far more awkward and cunning  a fighter than people think because he's not conventional.

I didn't necessarily think he would beat Wlad but Fury is so confident and coupled with domination on his last 2 fights I thought he'd be much better than other Wlad opponents.

Whilst Cunningham was a bad night for Fury and shouldn't be dwelled on (All fighters have them).............One can't help but imagine any fighter with half decent movement and a dig would be very interested....

If you could guarantee Haye wouldn't bottle it......I'd make him a big favorite..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

armchairwarrior wrote:I think Furys last two fights before Wlad were a clue. Christian Hammer and Dereck Chisora are not top flight but neither are walkovers. Fury dominated to the point where they both threw in the towel - two fighters in a row! V unusual I would have thought. More impressive in some ways when you make a man quit who's spent 2 months training and won't go another a few more rounds period because it's futile. I suspect Fury is actually far far more awkward and cunning  a fighter than people think because he's not conventional.

I didn't necessarily think he would beat Wlad but Fury is so confident and coupled with domination on his last 2 fights I thought he'd be much better than other Wlad opponents.

Whilst Cunningham was a bad night for Fury and shouldn't be dwelled on (All fighters have them).............One can't help but imagine any fighter with half decent movement and a dig would be very interested....

If you could guarantee Haye wouldn't bottle it......I'd make him a big favorite..

So would Fury but he holds the cards now so he has indignation on his side

He's also as thick as pig s**t..

So Haye needn't worry too much..

DAVE667 wrote:Armchair, Chisora had all the fight smashed out of him by David Haye. He'd given a good account of himself against Vitali and thought he was billy big bollox but found out that there are some fighters who can do lasting damage when they hit you. Chisora has never been the same. His weight in the Fury fight should give you a clue as to how motivated he was

Come on - Haye finished him off well but he hardly gave Dereck a sustained beating. Vitali and Helenius landed plenty. Chisora was matched too tough, too early.

fearlessBamber wrote:I think Fury has showed glimpses of what he did against Wlad in previous fights - against Johnson and Chisora for example.

He just seemed to up his speed, fitness and sharpness a level against Wlad that made it world class performance in my eyes.

I think he has to start favourite against any heavyweight in the world now. Wilder and Wlad have live punchers chances as I am not convinced Tyson has much of a chin. I really think he would totally school Joshua and stop him late. As for Haye, we need to see him fight a proper opponent before making a judgment.

Good post. Haye pings out a hand-picked novice from outside the world top 100 and suddenly he's taking over the division. Fury outboxes the champion in his own backyard and he's a fraud. Classic 606.

It's all about striking a balance though isn't ??....

Haye's fight was a disgrace..... but in fairness Fury beat a guy who lacked bollox and didn't offer anything..

So those who get carried away with Fury... are just as deluded as some Haye fans..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's all about striking a balance though isn't ??....

Haye's fight was a disgrace..... but in fairness Fury beat a guy who lacked bollox and didn't offer anything..

So those who get carried away with Fury... are just as deluded as some Haye fans..

Who's getting carried away? Fury is limited but he may just be the best all rounder. That should see him right against Wilder, Haye, Klitschko etc. before Joshua and Parker take over.

Switch Haye and Fury's last fights and it wouldn't even be a thread. Haye embarrassed himself against Klitschko. Fury backed up all his jibber jabber.

Some posters may recall Haye had a decent career before Klitty bang bang...

I imagine he's a few notches ahead of Tyson on any ATG list.....

But I agree Haye bottled Klit...and he should have kept his big trap shut before the fight and toe in his shoe after...He's a classless punk...

But does deserve a little more respect..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Some posters may recall Haye had a decent career before Klitty bang bang...

I imagine he's a few notches ahead of Tyson on any ATG list.....

But I agree Haye bottled Klit...and he should have kept his big trap shut before the fight and toe in his shoe after...He's a classless punk...

But does deserve a little more respect..

Fury's win over Klitschko eclipses anything Haye's done. Haye's record at heavy is distinctly average.

It does eclipse anything he's done......

But Douglas beating Tyson eclipsed anything Holy and Lewis ever did...

Not that I'm comparing these two clowns achievements with those greats...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It does eclipse anything he's done......

But Douglas beating Tyson eclipsed anything Holy and Lewis ever did...

Not that I'm comparing these two clowns achievements with those greats...

That's debatable. Tyson had been on the job 24/7 in Tokyo. The Holyfield Lewis out pointed was better than that Tyson. As was the Bowe that Holyfield beat.

Whether Fury remains a Douglas-like footnote remains to be seen.

For all the analysis on these things, it generally seems to boil down to whether so and so like Fury or not.

Fury is quite obviously better than the majority of people thought. Substantially better than a no skill oaf. There was evidence in there of that but the hate brigade chose to ignore it. He wont last a round against the ultra conservative Klitscho who doest throw a right hand until the 9th round!

Fury isnt a great fighter though and I dont belive he will go onto be one. A great fighter would make pretty short work of Klitschko. A Tyson, Lewis, Bowe or Holy would have got rid of him in 3 or 4 rounds I think.

I think a lot of people are willing Klitschko to win a rematch so they can jump on the Fury is a useless fluke excuse but this was nothing like Rahman ending Lewis with one punch against a sloppy Lewis. Klitschko had 12 rounds and couldnt mount much of performance at all.

Having said that, Klitschko raising his performance by ten or fifteen percent combined with Fury dropping ten or fifteen percent would probably be enough to reverse the result in a rematch. Especially if Furys motivation drops or he believs the fight will be easier than it is. Klitschko has the power to damage but zero killer instinct and no ambition to finish an opponent who isnt completely spent. So Fury could potentially survive some big shots.

I dont think there is a huge margin seperating the top 5 or 6 heavies out there. Certainly wouldnt class any of them as great fighters. I think irrespective of what occurs in a rematch, Fury has shown he is miles better than previosuly given credit for. He is legitmately one of the best heavyweights in the world and deserves his champion status.

As I said Fury is awkward very very confident and yes an oaf. He is much more talented than people have given him credit and I think some of this is down to an image (not muscled and chisled). Wlad never thought he'd pose a problem..clearly!..until he did.

Peter Fury is a big part of this. Seriously rate him. He would have broken Wlad down and created a template for Fury to realise.. and it shows that Tyson is on the same wavelength for it to happen.

Unless Wlad is quite radically different after 11 years (mmmm) how is the result going to be different?

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It does eclipse anything he's done......

But Douglas beating Tyson eclipsed anything Holy and Lewis ever did...

Not that I'm comparing these two clowns achievements with those greats...

That's debatable. Tyson had been on the job 24/7 in Tokyo. The Holyfield Lewis out pointed was better than that Tyson. As was the Bowe that Holyfield beat.

Whether Fury remains a Douglas-like footnote remains to be seen.

That's a 'prime Mike'  'gus tomato' defence, haz. Whatever state of turmoil Tyson was or wasn't in, whatever kind of condition he was still the intimidating unbeatable beast. Douglas was a talented waster, who got his act together for a variety of reasons for one night only. And he was brilliant. Two thousand cheeseburgers, 15 odd pounds later he reverts to type against holy.

It's better than Lewis beating an aging holy and by a smaller margin, holy's excellent win against Bowe.

He shocked the world, genuinely. If that's a footnote it's not a bad one.

Whichever truss' point was one swallow doesn't make a summer, which is hard to argue with. These days one swallow in any season is a result for me.

A battered by Bowe twice.. Holy...

In fairness Haz was probably too young to remember whenTyson was in his pomp like me and you Milky..

I started believing in him after he teamed up with Peter Fury, his performances changed dramatically for the better

He will beat all other heavyweights out there, they all have a punchers chance of course

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

armchairwarrior wrote:I think Furys last two fights before Wlad were a clue. Christian Hammer and Dereck Chisora are not top flight but neither are walkovers. Fury dominated to the point where they both threw in the towel - two fighters in a row! V unusual I would have thought. More impressive in some ways when you make a man quit who's spent 2 months training and won't go another a few more rounds period because it's futile. I suspect Fury is actually far far more awkward and cunning  a fighter than people think because he's not conventional.

I didn't necessarily think he would beat Wlad but Fury is so confident and coupled with domination on his last 2 fights I thought he'd be much better than other Wlad opponents.

Whilst Cunningham was a bad night for Fury and shouldn't be dwelled on (All fighters have them).............One can't help but imagine any fighter with half decent movement and a dig would be very interested....

If you could guarantee Haye wouldn't bottle it......I'd make him a big favorite..

Fury didn't have his trainer in his corner for that fight and still starched him

Whilst shoving one arm in his throat and holding him illegally, a stronger and more competent referee would have DQ'd him.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Whilst shoving one arm in his throat and holding him illegally, a stronger and more competent referee would have DQ'd him.

Right because no other fighter holds illegally and hits his opponent?

When it leads to a knockout it's a disqualification, holding him by the throat with arm and punching him with the other isn't really on is it.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:When it leads to a knockout it's a disqualification, holding him by the throat with arm and punching him with the other isn't really on is it.

He puts his forearm in his face and then hits him, you over exaggerate it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb9PU0x79_8

Loads of fighters do that, Mayweather being a key offender.

It lead to a knockout so is therefore a DQ, there's no exaggeration it's what happened.

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It does eclipse anything he's done......

But Douglas beating Tyson eclipsed anything Holy and Lewis ever did...

Not that I'm comparing these two clowns achievements with those greats...

That's debatable. Tyson had been on the job 24/7 in Tokyo. The Holyfield Lewis out pointed was better than that Tyson. As was the Bowe that Holyfield beat.

Whether Fury remains a Douglas-like footnote remains to be seen.

That's a 'prime Mike'  'gus tomato' defence, haz. Whatever state of turmoil Tyson was or wasn't in, whatever kind of condition he was still the intimidating unbeatable beast. Douglas was a talented waster, who got his act together for a variety of reasons for one night only. And he was brilliant. Two thousand cheeseburgers, 15 odd pounds later he reverts to type against holy.

It's better than Lewis beating an aging holy and by a smaller margin, holy's excellent win against Bowe.

He shocked the world, genuinely. If that's a footnote it's not a bad one.

Whichever truss' point was one swallow doesn't make a summer, which is hard to argue with. These days one swallow in any season is a result for me.

He was still Grendel's Mother but he wasn't anywhere near in top nick and his head was still in a Japanese knocking shop. I'm not looking to take away from Big Bus' but its debatable who was the more formidable opponent of the three mentioned (at that point I explicitly add).

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:A  battered by Bowe twice.. Holy...

In fairness Haz was probably too young to remember whenTyson was in his pomp like me and you Milky..

Nope, I was there. Followed him all the way through as a nipper.

Holyfield was past his best when Lewis beat him but he rolled back the years in the rematch. I'd argue he was a tougher opponent than the half-asleep, totally disinterested Tyson who Douglas chopped down. All pie in the sky stuff really but still.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It lead to a knockout so is therefore a DQ, there's no exaggeration it's what happened.

Cunningham of course appealed to the NYSAC, who threw it out due to inconclusive evidence.

He's still the same fighter.

I don't quite get why everybody was so surprised. There's a reason Wlad has been so dull for the past 10yrs, he knows he's a dodgy chin and petrified of risking it.

Fury has the attributes and executed a good game plan. Good movement and decent reach. Unless wlad changes the habit of the last 10yrs, all fury has to do is the same. Even if Wlad throws caution to the wind fury could still spark him.

Fury has improved but I still think if Haye is anything like his old self, he'll walk through fury and AJ will do, soon enough.

Fury has proved he was better than anyone expected.

He is a big guy, decent movement (even if it looks awkward) and he can throw combinations from angles.

One thing nobody is giving him credit for is his ring intelligence. He managed to follow a game plan and beat a world champion that hadn't lost for very long time.

There are many other people / teams that have tried to come up with a solution to Wlad and they have all failed and generally failed miserably.

He kept his concentration throughout the whole fight when most felt it would just take one big punch to end his chances.

Maybe it was a lucky plan but if he is given the solution on how to beat his opponents and can stick to it he has every chance of beating the other heavies out there.

Wilder - Big punch (wide swings) but looks vulnerable.

AJ - Big punch, great finisher but a little slow and we have no idea how he'll get on against a fighter that won't let him sit down on his punches and actually give him a battle back. Showed some areas that needed improvement in his last fight.

Haye - Hasn't done anything to prove he is ready for a title shot in that last fight. Fury is very unlikely to fight him due to Haye's injury record. He does have a punch that can trouble anyone but I think Fury is under his skin and I'm not sure Haye actually fancies the fight (as much as he fancies the money it would generate).

Martin - I know nothing about this guy and my only comment on his is that he was given a title that he shouldn't have been due to boxing politics.

Spot on Huw. AJ, Wilder,Haye all big punchers but can they outbox Fury who is not as big a puncher but uses skills - reach, footwork, mixing up orthodox and southpaw, good enough head movement, certainly to flumox Wlad.

Have you guys read this interesting and revealing article. Very honest of Klitschko who openly admits Tysons style was just too much for him!

http://www.boxingscene.com/klitschko-admits-he-hesitated-too-much-furys-style-hurt-him--100343

Fair assessment from wlad. The question remains as to whether he's prepared to throw those 2 or 3 air shots to land the 4th, and risk getting countered. It's the classic solution to fighting counterpunchers, but a bit like the mayweather blueprint, putting into action isn't always as easy as it sounds. Especially in wlad's case where you've spent a decade developing a style to avoid getting hit.

He'll have to convince himself that it's ok to do it against a light hitter like fury.... He probably has talked himself into that, but whether he feels the same when the bell rings is another matter.

It was a fair assessment milkyboy, and very revealing about Wlads mindset. Very Germanic straight line thinking which has served him well against boxers who stand in front of him so he can deliver the script.

IMO Fury has his number - he'll just keep changing stance, rhythm, use the ring and keep Wlad guessing. he probably won't attack Fury all out because it's just not in his nature.

Wlad has already lost. No major change and he will lose again.

So why not go for broke? Change 1 thing - mindset. Accept a loss is forthcoming and just go out on your shield.

Have new found respect for Fury, but if Wlad lands, Fury goes.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Don't think the rematch will be any different....

Wlad's biggest hope is Fury doing a Duran between now and the rematch and partying/ boozing/ eating too much.

Good job for Hearn's sake....Duran did wasn't it..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Good job for Hearn's sake....Duran did wasn't it..

Yes It was, or Duran would of smashed him

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Good job for Hearn's sake....Duran did wasn't it..

Did Duran fight Hearns?

... Not really.

huw wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Good job for Hearn's sake....Duran did wasn't it..

Did Duran fight Hearns?

He was there anyway. I think it has been mentioned here once or twice

Wlad will have several months with little on his mind other than how to beat Fury. I think it would mean a lot for his legacy if he can turn this around. I think he will improve on his first performance and maybe Fury will have to too. Fury confused him as much as outboxed him and he too might need to land a bit more this time. I think it will be a much much better fight either way.