6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

by **George Carlin** Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February - Page 3 Scot_f10

6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February - Page 3 Englan10

SCOTLAND v ENGLAND
6 February 2016
KO: 16:50 GMT
Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC, RTE, FR2, DMAX / ITV(H)

Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

133 Played 133
42 Won 73
18 Drawn 18
73 Lost 42
1,132 Points 1,547

B. Recent Form

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

4 February 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 13 to England

1 October 2011
Eden Park, Auckland
16 – 12 to England

C. Teams

SCOTLAND
6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February - Page 3 Pia_mi10

6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February - Page 3 Pia_mi10

15. Stuart Hogg
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Matt Scott
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
09. Greig Laidlaw (captain)

01. Alasdair Dickinson
02. Ross Ford
03. Willem Nel
04. Richie Gray
05. Jonny Gray
06. John Barclay
07. John Hardie
08. David Denton

16. Stuart McInally
17. Gordon Reid
18. Zander Fagerson
19. Tim Swinson
20. Blair Cowan
21. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22. Duncan Weir
23. Duncan Taylor

ENGLAND
6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February - Page 3 Daisy_11

6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February - Page 3 Daisy_11

15. Mike Brown
14. Anthony Watson
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Owen Farrell
11. Jack Nowell
10. George Ford
09. Danny Care

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. Joe Launchbury
05. George Kruis
06. Chris Robshaw
07. James Haskell
08. Billy Vunipola

16. Jamie George
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Paul Hill
19. Courtney Lawes
20. Jack Clifford
21. Ben Youngs
22. Alex Goode
23. Ollie Devoto

by **RDW** Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:38 pm

Dave Denton had a mare today with a couple of high profile errors - a loose pass leading to the eventual winning try for Toulon.

by 123456789 Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:14 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Dave Denton had a mare today with a couple of high profile errors - a loose pass leading to the eventual winning try for Toulon.

Doesn't sound like him at all

by TJ Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:18 pm

GLove39 wrote:Now this is damned exciting news! Finally the SRU have got Richie 'collision king' Gray back!

23 JAN COTTER RECRUITS CONTACT SPECIALIST FOR RBS 6 NATIONS

Head Coach Vern Cotter has appointed Defensive Contact Specialist, Richie Gray, on a consultancy basis for the forthcoming RBS 6 Nations Championship.

Gray joins the Scotland set-up following a three-season spell as South Africa’s Specialist Breakdown Coach – culminating in their bronze medal finish at Rugby World Cup 2015 – as well as the ‘Blitzbokke’ 7s side.

Agreed - great news. A quality coach who looked lost to Scotland but is now back in the fold.

by **RDW** Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:15 am

A feck - Dunbar went off injured yesterday

Glasgow coach Gregor Townsend said: “He missed three weeks with a groin/hamstring strain and he felt something twinge there. It was the same hamstring. He was over the ball and he felt it tighten. He doesn’t think it is as bad as the last time."

by **BigGee** Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:27 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:A feck - Dunbar went off injured yesterday

Glasgow coach Gregor Townsend said: “He missed three weeks with a groin/hamstring strain and he felt something twinge there. It was the same hamstring. He was over the ball and he felt it tighten. He doesn’t think it is as bad as the last time."

Fortunately if there is any position in the whole squad we can afford to lose it is a centre. If Dunbar not fit,then Scott steps in.

by **George Carlin** Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:38 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:A feck - Dunbar went off injured yesterday

Glasgow coach Gregor Townsend said: “He missed three weeks with a groin/hamstring strain and he felt something twinge there. It was the same hamstring. He was over the ball and he felt it tighten. He doesn’t think it is as bad as the last time."

6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February - Page 3 Facepa10

by **RDW** Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:46 am

Bennett is still an injury doubt though - Scott and Taylor are our only guaranteed fit players.

Add in the fact that Maitland also isn't fit yet apparently.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:24 pm

It might just be me but I don't see a huge amount between the 2 sides at the moment, up front anyway...

The one significant advantage we have is familiarity, something England may be lacking especially if rumours that Owen Faz will be playing at 12 are to be believed. I think Jones is too smart to use the 6N opener against a strong Scotland to risk such a move, I may be wrong though.

Tight 5 I would say are pretty much equal, certainly if the Edinburgh front row and the Gray boys are in the boiler room I wouldn’t imagine there will be any “fear” going into the match. Plenty of respect for guys like Cole, Lawes, Launchberry but I would be surprised if our tight 5 didn’t go into the match confident of having the upper hand in the scrums and lineout.

Backrow is a different story. Vunipola is in superb form. Denton on the other hand has been on a poor streak for Bath, however he has been being played at 6 away from his favoured number 8 position. I think Hardie at 7 is better than anything England have to offer. He’ll be licking is lips if Brand Haskell gets the nod at 7. Robshaw back at 6 is something I’m dreading though. IMO England’s best player, even when being played out of position at 7.

I reckon England’s half back pairing is significantly better than Scotland’s. Ford is excellent when on form and Youngs if picked posseses a zip about his game Laidlaw can only dream of. However Laidlaw and Russell played well in the RWC I would give England the advantage here.

Centres is a tricky one. Scotland will most likely go with Scott and Taylor who are both playing really well for Edinburgh and Sarries respectively but will be an unfamiliar partnership. Are England really going to go with something like Farrell and JJ? An Error IMO. Burrell and JJ would be much more dangerous. Since we don’t really know what way Jones will go I’m not calling this one.

Back 3 Scotland are ravaged by injuries. Maitland and Visser both potentially injured leaves us the potential of watching Lamont trying to contain Watson… that would be suitable for a shock video should this transpire. Hogg had a good game at the weekend along with Seymore against a very lacklustre Racing so England have a clear advantage here.

Scotland will look to play an expansive brand of rugby but I do think the forward battle will determine the winner here. It’s a cliché but in this case particularly true.

by **RDW** Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:38 pm

That is a very fair summary Radge

I still think England are favourites though - if we were 100% fully fit and on form I think we would be slight favourites, but we're not!

by Nematode Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:53 pm

It's that time of year again... Rolling Eyes

"Scotland can win Six Nations" - Zander Fagerson

"In the Six Nations, we were there or thereabouts last year and a few games didn't go our way, but they were all pretty close,

"I think we can do something special this year."

Headscratch

Was I watching the same tournament?

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:20 pm

Nematode wrote:It's that time of year again...

"Scotland can win Six Nations" - Zander Fagerson

"In the Six Nations, we were there or thereabouts last year and a few games didn't go our way, but they were all pretty close,

"I think we can do something special this year."

Was I watching the same tournament?

Only England and Ireland won comfortably against us. France toiled, the game against Wales ended a minute early and one missed touch finder gifted Italy their win.

3 games were very close.

by GLove39 Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:36 pm

Happy Burns Night folks!
https://vine.co/v/iinUweD99tK

by **NeilyBroon** Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:12 pm

Nematode wrote:It's that time of year again...

"Scotland can win Six Nations" - Zander Fagerson

"In the Six Nations, we were there or thereabouts last year and a few games didn't go our way, but they were all pretty close,

"I think we can do something special this year."

Was I watching the same tournament?

I hate it every year when the players feel they need to announce that. I'm pleased they're actually aiming to win but it's like they're trying to convince themselves as much as anything else.

In years passed its proved to be about as impotent as the rhetoric that comes out of North Korea...

by GLove39 Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:29 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Nematode wrote:It's that time of year again...

"Scotland can win Six Nations" - Zander Fagerson

"In the Six Nations, we were there or thereabouts last year and a few games didn't go our way, but they were all pretty close,

"I think we can do something special this year."

Was I watching the same tournament?

Only England and Ireland won comfortably against us. France toiled, the game against Wales ended a minute early and one missed touch finder gifted Italy their win.

3 games were very close.

Exactly, we were a baw hairs width away from beating Wales, Italy, & not to mention Australia vomit

Just hope that experience & going through those spirit shattering experiences can drive us on to see out those sort of games this year.

by **George Carlin** Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:33 am

GLove39 wrote:Happy Burns Night folks!
https://vine.co/v/iinUweD99tK

Brilliant Graham.

Please keep them coming throughout the tournament.

by **RDW** Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:40 am

According to the new Scotland backs coach Bennett should be fit for this game, and could even feature for Glasgow this weekend of things go well.

No word on how long Dunbar will be out for yet.

by funnyExiledScot Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:07 am

George Carlin wrote:
GLove39 wrote:Happy Burns Night folks!
https://vine.co/v/iinUweD99tK
Brilliant Graham.

Please keep them coming throughout the tournament.

Are we on first name terms these days on here??

by **RDW** Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:08 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
GLove39 wrote:Happy Burns Night folks!
https://vine.co/v/iinUweD99tK
Brilliant Graham.

Please keep them coming throughout the tournament.

Are we on first name terms these days on here??

Are you not happy with that Horatio?

by funnyExiledScot Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:06 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
GLove39 wrote:Happy Burns Night folks!
https://vine.co/v/iinUweD99tK
Brilliant Graham.

Please keep them coming throughout the tournament.

Are we on first name terms these days on here??

Are you not happy with that Horatio?

You forgot my title, Ebenezer.

by **RDW** Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:09 am

Sorry, Rear Admiral Horatio!

by R!skysports Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:26 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sorry, Rear Admiral Horatio!

You forgot his First title

"He Takes it Up"

by funnyExiledScot Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:28 pm

Riskysports wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Sorry, Rear Admiral Horatio!

You forgot his First title

"He Takes it Up"

Tricky to top that level of banter!

by R!skysports Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:45 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Riskysports wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Sorry, Rear Admiral Horatio!

You forgot his First title

"He Takes it Up"

Tricky to top that level of banter!

Always :-)

by **RDW** Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:37 pm

Full England squad for game against Scotland:

Forwards: Dan Cole (Leicester), Jack Clifford, Joe Marler, Chris Robshaw (all Harlequins), Jamie George, George Kruis, Billy Vunipola, Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Dylan Hartley, Paul Hill, Courtney Lawes (Northampton), James Haskell, Joe Launchbury (Wasps).

Backs: Mike Brown, Danny Care (both Harlequins), Ollie Devoto, George Ford, Jonathan Joseph, Anthony Watson (Bath), Owen Farrell, Alex Goode (Saracens), Jack Nowell (Exeter), Ben Youngs (Leicester).

by king_carlos Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:20 pm

RDW - Technically they are the 23 players retained in camp over the weekend with 10 sent back to their clubs for this weeks AP games. Those 10 will return to England camp next week and are technically available for selection against Scotland.

Sadly that is likely to be the 23 though. If changes are made they won't possibly be starting so it would only be someone getting added to the bench. Currently sounds like we will see:

Mako Vunipola, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Kruis, Robhsaw, Haskell, Billy Vunipola
Ben Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, Watson, Brown

Replacements: George, Marler, Paull Hill, Lawes, Clifford, Care, Devoto, Goode

picard

by Nematode Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:28 pm

If this is the 23 we are going to face then I'm feeling a little bit more optimistic.

I'm glad Daly and Itoje aren't in the 23 and Jamie George won't be starting - they are 3 players that I think could feature in the next Lions tour and are in great form, in fact, probably the most in form of all the England players. Daly would no doubt have been getting a few 3 pointers from the halfway line.

by **RDW** Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:33 pm

It certainly isn't a Picard worthy team! There might be some debatable calls but on the whole there is enough there to win.

by Hazel Sapling Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:46 pm

There is enough for England to win, but Devoto or Farrell in the centres with Joseph encourages me. Ford has been in poor form this year and I find it strange that Eastmond has not been called up if no other 12's are liked. Plays week in, week out with Ford, Joseph and Watson in that backline.

If I were English (well, more English), Farrell has played excellently at 10 this year. Him, Devoto and Joseph would be solid. Solid kicking and the physicality to bully Russell from Farrell with Devoto the creative fulcrum to bring in the rest of the line.

Scott and Taylor better be willing to run hard support lines towards 12 because whoever England choose will not be used to defending from 12 and needs to be taught a lesson boxing

by GLove39 Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:41 pm

George Carlin wrote:
GLove39 wrote:Happy Burns Night folks!
https://vine.co/v/iinUweD99tK
Brilliant Graham.

Please keep them coming throughout the tournament.

Cheers GC

Got a few things planned

by funnyExiledScot Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:00 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:It certainly isn't a Picard worthy team! There might be some debatable calls but on the whole there is enough there to win.

Agree, in fact Hartley as captain and Farrell at 12 are the only two decision I think are just wrong. The rest of that crew are pretty decent, and the pack is really powerful. I recall vividly those Samoas bashing huge holes through the Scotland defence at the World Cup, and have no reason to believe it'll be different with Vunipola x2.

by lostinwales Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:07 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:It certainly isn't a Picard worthy team! There might be some debatable calls but on the whole there is enough there to win.

Agree, in fact Hartley as captain and Farrell at 12 are the only two decision I think are just wrong. The rest of that crew are pretty decent, and the pack is really powerful. I recall vividly those Samoas bashing huge holes through the Scotland defence at the World Cup, and have no reason to believe it'll be different with Vunipola x2.

Farrell in the centers as anything other than an emergency is wrong. Hartley isn't ideal but there isn't really anyone else at this moment. There are a bunch of potential long term captains but I think they will emerge over the next season or 2.

by beshocked Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:11 am

king carlos to be honest I think Eddie will start Lawes with Hartley.

RDW Scotland enough to win yes but it's not exactly a heartening selection.

Seems like form doesn't really matter.

nematode I agree. Seems like quite a conservative start to EJ's tenure.

EJ seems to be forgetting that the shining lights of England in the last two 6 nations were new players - Burrell and Joseph.

FES we'll see.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:49 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:It certainly isn't a Picard worthy team! There might be some debatable calls but on the whole there is enough there to win.

Agree, in fact Hartley as captain and Farrell at 12 are the only two decision I think are just wrong. The rest of that crew are pretty decent, and the pack is really powerful. I recall vividly those Samoas bashing huge holes through the Scotland defence at the World Cup, and have no reason to believe it'll be different with Vunipola x2.

As errors go they are pretty considerable. Jamie George has been the best hooker in England by far. Instead Jones has gone for an out of form violent penalty magnet.

Furthermore Farrell is a very capable 10, as a 12 it didn't work too well in the RWC. Scott, Taylor, Denton, Hogg, Seymore, Ford, Gray et al all need to pummel that 10-12 axis because that's a hard enough channel to defend for players who play that position, and with a big lump like Haskell at 7 cover defence might be a bit dry too.

Definitely an area to exploit.

Not a weak team by any standards but not as strong as it could be IMO.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:58 am

How many penalties on average does Hartley give away in comparison to other hookers Rugger?

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:00 am

no idea, but he's been banned for over a year. So my guess is he is a pretty dirty player. Mind you Danny Grewcock was pretty popular too with England coaches.

Mind you, lets not digress, you think Hartley has been playing better than George?

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:02 am

Ah ok. Just wanted to make sure it was just something made up on a perception.

by beshocked Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:03 am

Ruggerradge2611 I agree.

Gives Scotland 3 areas to focus on - winding up Hartley, Haskell and Farrell.

Need to check the odds on an English YC or RC, probably not good.

We've not really talked too much about penalties but I can see the penalty count going against England if we aren't careful.

People say oh look it's a powerful England, enough potential penalty magnets there.

no 7 & 1/2 mentioned it in another post - Farrell is a player who gets frustated if things don't go his way - playing at 12 in a position he is less comfortable at. Could make him become frustated. Has a tendency to shoulder charge/ get his timing wrong. Personally I think this comes from his RL roots, Ashton has similar problems.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:10 am

beshocked wrote:Ruggerradge2611 I agree.

Gives Scotland 3 areas to focus on - winding up Hartley, Haskell and Farrell.

Need to check the odds on an English YC or RC, probably not good.

We've not really talked too much about penalties but I can see the penalty count going against England if we aren't careful.

People say oh look it's a powerful England, enough potential penalty magnets there.

no 7 & 1/2 mentioned it in another post - Farrell is a player who gets frustated if things don't go his way - playing at 12 in a position he is less comfortable at. Could make him become frustated. Has a tendency to shoulder charge/ get his timing wrong. Personally I think this comes from his RL roots, Ashton has similar problems.

Hartley could be easy pickings for a captain like Laidlaw. Laidlaw communicates well with ref's normally and tends to have a decent relationship with Lacey.

Hartley will hate a trumped up little squirt like Laidlaw nipping in the ref's ear and will hopefully get agitated and start making errors.

For all his flaws I still believe Robshaw was a good captain for England. I would have stuck with him. It would also have meant Jamie George could have started, who as others have indicated has Lion written all over him.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:11 am

No Hartley isn't in better form Rugger, just back from injury. I'd have still gone with him to start but very much in a minority.

Personally I'd love to see Scotland get distracted trying to rile players. We may well have a go with Hogg afterall!

by **RDW** Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:14 am

I don’t think we should focus on ‘targeting’ certain characters in the England team. It just distracts our focus from our own game. Also, in order to target players we need some uncompromising characters too – as powerful as our likely 8 is, none of them come from the Nathan Hines / Jim Hamilton school of being an irritating barsteward to the opposition! They are all a bit too nice for that kind of thing. Which is both a good and a bad thing IMO.

by Cyril Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:15 am

If Scotland's main (only?) gameplan is to try and wind up opposition players it's going to be a pretty dismal tournament for them again.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:21 am

Cyril wrote:If Scotland's main (only?) gameplan is to try and wind up opposition players it's going to be a pretty dismal tournament for them again.

Who said it was our main or only gameplan? Personally I think Scotland's game plan should be:

1. To excert huge pressure in the scrum with our powerful tight 5
2. Disrupt the lineout with our excellent spoiling jumpers in the form of Gray, Gray and Denton.
3. Dominate the breakdown with our significantly better openside flanker (Hardie), the inclusion of Richard Gray (South Africa's breakdown specialist) to the back room staff it's clearly an area Cotter wants to target.
4. Hammer the 10-12 channel with strike runners, especially if Farrell is out of position.

That's what I would see as a good game plan. The fact Hartley is captain and "Brand Haskell" at 7 is a bonus.

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:21 am

Cyril wrote:If Scotland's main (only?) gameplan is to try and wind up opposition players it's going to be a pretty dismal tournament for them again.

Behave yourself.

Of course it's not. The game plan will be fast, running rugby similar to the WC.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:28 am

Are we all backing our own teams then? Scotland are capable but I'd be extremely disappointed to come away with a draw or defeat from this. My call is England by 15.

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:30 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Are we all backing our own teams then? Scotland are capable but I'd be extremely disappointed to come away with a draw or defeat from this. My call is England by 15.

A two score win for England seems likely.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:33 am

Just my call, most Scots seem positive though.

by **RDW** Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:34 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just my call, most Scots seem positive though.

Positive but realistic is my opinion - I just think England will have too much but we'll put in our usual gallant effort.

England by 6.

by beshocked Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:36 am

RDW Scotland don't think you've missed much getting rid of Hamilton. He might be deemed "hard" but hasn't stopped the Gray bros leapfrogging him for Scotland and Kruis/Itoje keeping him out of the Saracens team. Ultimately his performances haven't been good enough. Same with K.Brown.

England's emphasis on experience over form could bite us in the backside. Just don't think there's enough fresh ideas in the 23. Good to see Clifford in the 23 and interested to see what Hill can do but no Daly or Itoje is disappointing.

It's as if Eddie Jones didn't watch those two play on the weekend.

Ruggerradge2611 sounds like a good gameplan to me.

Oh and I am not saying that the Scottish gameplan should be wind up merchants, I just mean these are the players I would try and pressurise the most.

Discipline is of course important.

by **RDW** Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:37 am

beshocked wrote:RDW Scotland don't think you've missed much getting rid of Hamilton.

I absolutely agree with you there - I was just saying that one thing he was very good at was winding up the opposition!

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:39 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Just my call, most Scots seem positive though.

Positive but realistic is my opinion - I just think England will have too much but we'll put in our usual gallant effort.

England by 6.

I agree, I think England will win but I think if they do win by 15 I'll be bitterly disappointed.

Weather dependent I reckon it will be a very tight affair. I personally don't want to see a mud wrestle. Both teams have some skillful quick backs. I'd much rather see a high tempo running kind of match.

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