6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

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SCOTLAND v ENGLAND
6 February 2016
KO: 16:50 GMT
Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC, RTE, FR2, DMAX / ITV(H)

Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

133 Played 133
42 Won 73
18 Drawn 18
73 Lost 42
1,132 Points 1,547

B. Recent Form

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

4 February 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 13 to England

1 October 2011
Eden Park, Auckland
16 – 12 to England

C. Teams

SCOTLAND

15. Stuart Hogg
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Matt Scott
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
09. Greig Laidlaw (captain)

01. Alasdair Dickinson
02. Ross Ford
03. Willem Nel
04. Richie Gray
05. Jonny Gray
06. John Barclay
07. John Hardie
08. David Denton

16. Stuart McInally
17. Gordon Reid
18. Zander Fagerson
19. Tim Swinson
20. Blair Cowan
21. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22. Duncan Weir
23. Duncan Taylor

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown
14. Anthony Watson
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Owen Farrell
11. Jack Nowell
10. George Ford
09. Danny Care

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. Joe Launchbury
05. George Kruis
06. Chris Robshaw
07. James Haskell
08. Billy Vunipola

16. Jamie George
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Paul Hill
19. Courtney Lawes
20. Jack Clifford
21. Ben Youngs
22. Alex Goode
23. Ollie Devoto

No 7&1/2 wrote:Are we all backing our own teams then? Scotland are capable but I'd be extremely disappointed to come away with a draw or defeat from this. My call is England by 15.

I think that unlikely - but I also think this is a very unpredictable game. Will Jones have melded England into a coherent team with a hard edge? Or will we see the disjointed soft england of the WC - either is possible.
Will Scotland kick on from the WC where we just started to see them playing to their potential or will the injuries / loss of form send them back to 2014?

If Farrell is playing in the centre I expect Scotland to win I think it would be that big a mistake. Scotland best attacking players are in the centres and our back row should also be quicker than the English one so the England inside centre will be under huge pressure both in attack and defence.

Fingers crossed that Billy V lasts the full 80 minutes, or we could see Haskell covering 8 with Clifford making his debut at 7 in what could be a very tight, high pressure match.

Scotland will also I guess come out all guns blazing - if England can survive the first 20 mins without going 10 pts down they should win - but this Scotland team unlike in the past are not less fit and smaller than the opposition. The england bench will be stronger - So Scotland must take serious points in the first 20 mins to win.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35416965

Mind games already from Jones, I suppose we knew it would be like this.

England on paper clear favorites, bit early for him to be getting those kind of excuses in :

"We've only had six training sessions together so there is an enormous pressure on Scotland to perform and not so much on us,"

Seems like Eddie went to the same Mind Games College as Gatland....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35416965

Re: England Squad Named - New post by Barney McGrew did it Today at 9:10 pm

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

SL got the selection more or less right (with a couple of notable exceptions) – it was the overall game-plan (whatever that was) that looked flaky. But where SL did struggled with personnel, it’s disappointing (after what he has said) that EJ is not immediately dealing with the problem areas of BR balance and centre combo. This is a 6N game against Scotland for gawds sake – no offense but if you can’t introduce a proper IC and OS (or the nearest we have to them) for this game when the hell can you? I want England to win the competition, but I’d much rather we started with improving the side as soon as possible. SL dithered with the back-line for too long and we know where that lead. Come on Eddie - carpe diem, we’ll beat the Scots

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Seems like Eddie went to the same Mind Games College as Gatland....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35416965

Wasn't this also the case during the WC? Pretty sure he came out with stuff like this then as well.

maestegmafia wrote:Re: England Squad Named - New post by Barney McGrew did it Today at 9:10 pm

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

SL got the selection more or less right (with a couple of notable exceptions) – it was the overall game-plan (whatever that was) that looked flaky. But where SL did struggled with personnel, it’s disappointing (after what he has said) that EJ is not immediately dealing with the problem areas of BR balance and centre combo. This is a 6N game against Scotland for gawds sake – no offense but if you can’t introduce a proper IC and OS (or the nearest we have to them) for this game when the hell can you? I want England to win the competition, but I’d much rather we started with improving the side as soon as possible. SL dithered with the back-line for too long and we know where that lead. Come on Eddie - carpe diem, we’ll beat the Scots

not really interested in mud slinging Maest. He's entitled to his opinion.

I'd rather this thread doesn't turn into another Welsh/English WUM thread. My advice would be underestimate us at your peril. Jones thinks we are favourites

I actually think barney has a point there - Scotland and Italy on paper are the weakest teams England will face in the six nations. If you can't blood players against scotland when can you?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

I'd rather this thread doesn't turn into another Welsh/English WUM thread.

Please. its the calcutta match thread. Plenty other threads for welsh fans to bicker with the english. We are quite capable of winding up the english on our own if we want.

EWT Spoons wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Seems like Eddie went to the same Mind Games College as Gatland....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35416965

Wasn't this also the case during the WC?  Pretty sure he came out with stuff like this then as well.

Yes, I love that apparently we are 'favourites' and then the BBC goes on to print this:

Scotland have lost their last seven Six Nations games including a whitewash last year.
 
Their only win in their last 12 games in the championship was a 21-20 win over Italy in Rome in February 2014.
 
They have not beaten England, runners-up for the last four years, since 2008.

So you've made your point pretty well, Eddie.

TJ wrote:I actually think barney has a point there - Scotland and Italy on paper are the weakest teams England will face in the six nations.  If you can't blood players against scotland when can you?

I guess the argument would be that you don't blood new players during a competitive match and try them out during the autumn tests.  But yeah in general I agree.  We have a terrible record against England over the last few years, they are the bookies favourites to win, so on paper it's pointing to an England win.  If England really want to try out a combo in this 6 nations, then against us/Italy would be the best time....in theory.  Just on that note, if Eddie wants to try out, the girl guides 3rd's xv or GC's moderately racist uncle Dougie, then I would strongly recommend he does it against us.  

I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE

GLove39 wrote:I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE

Jaysus. Why, SRU? He looks like a constipated hobbit with a flatulence problem.

Is that not from the pre 6N con-flab that happens?

George Carlin wrote:

GLove39 wrote:I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE

Jaysus. Why, SRU? He looks like a constipated hobbit with a flatulence problem.

But the hobbits beat the orcs

GLove39 wrote:I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE

"Jist away to meet the English off the bus Mum, back for ma tea later"

I fancy Scotland to win by 5pts.

GLove39 wrote:I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE

Also looks like 'Dance of the Flaming Arsoles' went a bit wrong for the newbies.

TJ wrote:I actually think barney has a point there - Scotland and Italy on paper are the weakest teams England will face in the six nations.  If you can't blood players against scotland when can you?

I think Barney has a point here too. Scotland and Italy are ranked lowest, that said, from a scots or Italian point of view that same analogy then includes England.

There are no easy games.

Coaches, thankfully still take this competition very seriously, not using it to blood players.

It is an interesting conundrum. Scotland and England are no easy team to beat this year. There should be little between all the teams bar Italy, who still look behind.

But there is a urgency for some team storing and perfect combinations I the pitch.

This is apparent to all the games this weekend.

If (as we seem to be resigning ourselves to) Farrell plays 12 it is worth remembering that he's probably as good or better defender than the alternatives. If Scotland do hit the 10/12 axis all the time it probably won't do them any good.

The big problem for me is that we know that Farrell is (mostly) ineffective running the ball, so that the Scottish defense can line up Joseph without worrying too much about what Farrell will do.

lostinwales wrote:If (as we seem to be resigning ourselves to) Farrell plays 12 it is worth remembering that he's probably as good or better defender than the alternatives. If Scotland do hit the 10/12 axis all the time it probably won't do them any good.

Is Farrell used to defending at 12? He can tackle yes - but does he have the positional tactics sorted? Can he go for the turnovers like the scots will?

lostinwales wrote:The big problem for me is that we know that Farrell is (mostly) ineffective running the ball, so that the Scottish defense can line up Joseph without worrying too much about what Farrell will do.

Not just that - but the speed of the Scots onto Farrell will push him deep and the scots back rows will be at the breakdown quicker than the english

I really think this is a dreadful mistake if it happens - the way to play against the scots is to have an elusive runner at 12 who can make half breaks. Or a power runner. Farrell is neither. Scotland will love attacking farrell at 12. I will be very happy if he plays there. He has the wrong skill set to play 12 against Scotland

If I was Scotland, I'd go at Owen Farrell as hard as Farrell did against Watson in last season's final.

You never want a player to leave the pitch injured, but England wouldn't look great if Farrell gets an early knock. I suppose Ford, Devoto and Joseph do play together but it's not as if Bath have looked great when they have done.

I bet Farrell gets MOTM now....

If he does it'll be a terrible game!!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I bet Farrell gets MOTM now....

We all know it'll be Launchbury

Farrell has actually looked quite good running the ball for Sarries recently. He is getting over the line as well, remembering the ball has to stay with him seems to be the bit he forgetting.

GLove39 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I bet Farrell gets MOTM now....

We all know it'll be Launchbury

There should be a sweep to see who has been 'pre-pricked' to be MOM

usually the one who has the extended interview before the game :-)

Riskysports wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I bet Farrell gets MOTM now....

We all know it'll be Launchbury

There should be a sweep to see who has been 'pre-pricked' to be MOM

usually the one who has the extended interview before the game :-)

It usually depends on who is choosing. Brian Moore picks the forward with the highest tackle count. Andy Nichol picks the Scotsman he said would play well at the start of the game. Jiffy picks the player whose name he can pronounce. Stuart Barnes picks George Ford. Dallaglio picks the Wasps player who performs the best.

LOL @ FES

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I bet Farrell gets MOTM now....

We all know it'll be Launchbury

There should be a sweep to see who has been 'pre-pricked' to be MOM

usually the one who has the extended interview before the game :-)

It usually depends on who is choosing. Brian Moore picks the forward with the highest tackle count. Andy Nichol picks the Scotsman he said would play well at the start of the game. Jiffy picks the player whose name he can pronounce. Stuart Barnes picks George Ford. Dallaglio picks the Wasps player who performs the best.

I'm loving the Freudian slip above

How much have people watched Farrell? His attacking game has come on in leaps and bounds. If defenders are dumb enough to ignore him, I suspect it will cost them.

Don't get me wrong, he's not an Eastmond/Joseph/Daly, but he is starting to remind me of JW at his best - he was never the biggest attacking threat, but he had enough to keep defences honest.

wickedwasp wrote:How much have people watched Farrell?  His attacking game has come on in leaps and bounds.  If defenders are dumb enough to ignore him, I suspect it will cost them.

Don't get me wrong, he's not an Eastmond/Joseph/Daly, but he is starting to remind me of JW at his best - he was never the biggest attacking threat, but he had enough to keep defences honest.

I rate Farrell at 10, not at 12.

Wicked - thing is centre is a real strength of Scotland (especially if we get some of the injured back) I really think he will get smashed repeatedly / caught in possession. I am delighted if he plays there - I'd much rather we were facing him than one of the guys you mention. apart from anything else when he gets frustrated he loses the plot - and you can bet he is going to be flattened time and time again. Scotland will target him.

I see us tearing Scotland a new one they had a really poor World Cup they scrapped through an easy group and if Eddie brings on Mallinder for the last 20 he will just open the game up with his long strides.

TJ, OK. I think we have to agree to differ. I think you are underestimating what he can bring. don't get me wrong - I agree he's a 10, not a12, but I think you'll see him and Ford constantly swapping roles, which will pose a real problem for your defence

I can't help but agree with wickedwasp, also if steady Eddie has Ford Farrell brown and Ashton form a single file cue behind the attacking scrum just like stewie used to that will really keep Scotland guessing who is first receiver.

And I am not saying he can't get wound up and go over the top but most of the time Farrell does keep more of a cap on things than can come across.

He wouldn't be as good a penalty kicker if he didn't

We will see.  I am quite content he will be playing - nothing like the attacking threat of the others and hopefully Dunbar is fit cos Dunbar will have him on toast

Glasgow use that " line up all behind the scrum" formation so I am sure they will also have figured out how to defend it in the scotland camp. I just don't think he is as potent an attacking threat as the other 12s youhave and I think he will get rattled and will be targetted, Feel free to refer me to this thread after the game

TBF Burrell offered barely anything in attack last year so it can't be worse!

I was thinking about doing a comparison for the various positions to see who comes out on top - but I realised there are too many unknowns in the english set up to predict - this of course could be to Englands advantage - they will know how Scotland will play - Scotland will find it harder to tell how England will play

I have England as slight favourites but it has to be Scotlands best chance of beating them for years.

final prediction?  My head says
 My heart says

England by 3 pts because of a brainfart by a scotland player in the 77th minute

TJ wrote:We will see.  I am quite content he will be playing - nothing like the attacking threat of the others and hopefully Dunbar is fit cos Dunbar will have him on toast

Glasgow use that " line up all behind the scrum" formation so I am sure they will also have figured out how to defend it in the scotland camp.  I just don't think he is as potent an attacking threat as the other 12s youhave and I think he will get rattled and will be targetted,  Feel free to refer me to this thread after the game

He is a better ten that twelve I grant you. However, I do think you overdo the whole thing about him getting rattled. He has been superb all season. Do you not think the teams in the league and Champions Cup try and target him? He has been up against players at least as good as Dunbar and has managed pretty well.

But not playing 12 - thats the point.  He will be in unfamiliar territory and will have less space and time.  Dunbar is a injury concern but he is one of the very best in europe.

To me its about a combination of factors and of course I over egg it a bit but at 12 I prefer to see Farrell than some of the other players England have available.  He will blunt the attack outside him as he is not the quickest either between the ears or over the ground and he is not much of a running threat.  He is playing against Scotland's strongest area and in a role he is not normally played in.

When you look at a team you are playing you look for points to attack - and for this calcutta cup match Farrell at 12 would be a point of attack.  I am not saying he is rubbish.  I am saying playing him at 12 would provide a point for Scotland to seek to attack both in defense and attack.

Also I think you minimise his poor control.   HOw many poor decisions has he made 'cos the red mist descends?  Yellow card against Aus - red mist then for sure and just as England were getting back into the game.  England lost all momentum at that point.  Plenty other examples - late shoulder charge against ireland a couple of years ago just  pen that time.  

We will see and if he plays 12 and plays a blinder you  can refer me back to this thread for a fine portion of humble pie.  Equally if ~Dunbar puts him on his arse and takes the ball off him everytime he gets it then I will enjoy saying " told you so"

its all conjecture at this point

Edit Same as I think Hoggs temper makes him less effective

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I bet Farrell gets MOTM now....

We all know it'll be Launchbury

There should be a sweep to see who has been 'pre-pricked' to be MOM

usually the one who has the extended interview before the game :-)

It usually depends on who is choosing. Brian Moore picks the forward with the highest tackle count. Andy Nichol picks the Scotsman he said would play well at the start of the game. Jiffy picks the player whose name he can pronounce. Stuart Barnes picks George Ford. Dallaglio picks the Wasps player who performs the best.

Dunbar and Horne definitely won't be fit for this game and Bennett is 50/50, according to Vern Cotter.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I bet Farrell gets MOTM now....

We all know it'll be Launchbury

There should be a sweep to see who has been 'pre-pricked' to be MOM

usually the one who has the extended interview before the game :-)

It usually depends on who is choosing. Brian Moore picks the forward with the highest tackle count. Andy Nichol picks the Scotsman he said would play well at the start of the game. Jiffy picks the player whose name he can pronounce. Stuart Barnes picks George Ford. Dallaglio picks the Wasps player who performs the best.

It'll be Itoje.

It's always Itoje.

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:
It usually depends on who is choosing. Brian Moore picks the forward with the highest tackle count. Andy Nichol picks the Scotsman he said would play well at the start of the game. Jiffy picks the player whose name he can pronounce. Stuart Barnes picks George Ford. Dallaglio picks the Wasps player who performs the best.

Nailed it.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Dunbar and Horne definitely won't be fit for this game and Bennett is 50/50, according to Vern Cotter.

So we're looking at 12 Scott 13 Taylor, really. The advantage of that combination is size and good current form.

Dreamland by Scottish standards in comparison to the last 10 years, but still disappointing in comparison to what we might field when fit.

Not sure that I would risk the Messiah for this one - nothing worse than an injury being exacerbated when a bit more rest would have prevented it.

I guess that's what makes this year's game very interesting: -

Scotland played the best of the home nations at the WC and play at home.
England were pretty dire, but now have a new manager and some new players though not a major change as yet.

Very hard to call but should be a fascinating match.