Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XI - The Undiscovered Country

by IanBru Wed 20 Jan 2016, 7:15 pm

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A Brief History of Time-Wasting
Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XI - The Undiscovered Country - Page 10 EsZNtP0

Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XI - The Undiscovered Country - Page 10 EsZNtP0

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Ladies and Gentlemen, it's THE RUN IN!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 29 Feb 2016, 2:35 pm

I think this is smart, but it probably spells the end for both the Georgian and Pat MacArthur (London Scottish?).

For me Fraser Brown, Kevin Bryce and James Malcolm should remain with Glasgow as the longer term hooking options, with Flynn being sensibly rotated and brought on board for mentoring/experience/leadership.

by Eejit Mon 29 Feb 2016, 2:36 pm

MacArthur has just signed a two year deal though hasn't he?

by IanBru Mon 29 Feb 2016, 2:37 pm

Brilliant signing - an opportunity for MacArthur to fulfil the huge potential that his Ayr pedigree hinted at.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 29 Feb 2016, 2:38 pm

Didn't know that. Perhaps it's Bryce on the way out. Can't believe they'll sustain five hookers in the squad next season.

Happily take Bryce at Edinburgh incidentally.

by **BigGee** Mon 29 Feb 2016, 2:50 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Didn't know that. Perhaps it's Bryce on the way out. Can't believe they'll sustain five hookers in the squad next season.

Happily take Bryce at Edinburgh incidentally.

I thought MacArthur was out of contract this may. He would probably be the weakest link for me, just does not seem to be quite big enough to cut it at the highest level. Byrce seems to have been crocked fairly permanently recently as well, which won't put him in a strong bargining position. Hopefully they have learnt from the Cussack experience.

Either way there is going to be a little bit of a clear out.

by Hazel Sapling Mon 29 Feb 2016, 3:05 pm

BigGee wrote:A two year deal, subject to medical (probably no bad idea!)

Wants to help the young hookers at Glasgow come through. Toonie wants him to be part of the leadership group.

Played 35 games for Toulouse last season, 34 starts. Sounds like he is still in pretty good nick!

Sounds like a pretty good deal all round, he probably has not cost a fortune either. The Big T money seems like it is being spent quite shrewdly.

Interesting that in the Belfast Telegraph he mentioned talking to Maitland who "could not say enough good things about Glasgow." If he can start 10 games and be an impact sub for 10, with the coaching/mentoring this will be a good signing. There is a bit of a logjam at hooker should players stay healthy though. The Georgian is a goner. One of Fenton or Scott may need to move to LS for a couple of months to get gametime.

Any rumours on how many more are being brought in?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 29 Feb 2016, 3:38 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
BigGee wrote:A two year deal, subject to medical (probably no bad idea!)

Wants to help the young hookers at Glasgow come through. Toonie wants him to be part of the leadership group.

Played 35 games for Toulouse last season, 34 starts. Sounds like he is still in pretty good nick!

Sounds like a pretty good deal all round, he probably has not cost a fortune either. The Big T money seems like it is being spent quite shrewdly.

Interesting that in the Belfast Telegraph he mentioned talking to Maitland who "could not say enough good things about Glasgow." If he can start 10 games and be an impact sub for 10, with the coaching/mentoring this will be a good signing. There is a bit of a logjam at hooker should players stay healthy though. The Georgian is a goner. One of Fenton or Scott may need to move to LS for a couple of months to get gametime.

Any rumours on how many more are being brought in?

Interesting. So Maitland is no different to all my Weegie friends who passionately love the place but quietly moved away when the opportunity presented itself!!

by Eejit Mon 29 Feb 2016, 3:46 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:
BigGee wrote:A two year deal, subject to medical (probably no bad idea!)

Wants to help the young hookers at Glasgow come through. Toonie wants him to be part of the leadership group.

Played 35 games for Toulouse last season, 34 starts. Sounds like he is still in pretty good nick!

Sounds like a pretty good deal all round, he probably has not cost a fortune either. The Big T money seems like it is being spent quite shrewdly.

Interesting that in the Belfast Telegraph he mentioned talking to Maitland who "could not say enough good things about Glasgow." If he can start 10 games and be an impact sub for 10, with the coaching/mentoring this will be a good signing. There is a bit of a logjam at hooker should players stay healthy though. The Georgian is a goner. One of Fenton or Scott may need to move to LS for a couple of months to get gametime.

Any rumours on how many more are being brought in?

Interesting. So Maitland is no different to all my Weegie friends who passionately love the place but quietly moved away when the opportunity presented itself!!

Curse you and your accurate statements.

by A Simply Mesmeric Try Mon 29 Feb 2016, 3:59 pm

Yeah MacArthur and Brown signed new 2 years deals recently. Bryce's contract situation is unknown. Dunno when he signed his last deal. Would be good for Edinburgh, but they already have three pros and one stage 3 EDP.

Corey Flynn will replace Mamukashvili next season I'm guessing.

Just look at the plethora of hookers! Some will have to go...

Glasgow Hookers (7)
Fraser Brown
Pat MacArthur
Kevin Bryce
Shalva Mamukashvili
Fergus Scott
James Malcolm
Cameron Fenton

Edinburgh Hookers (4)
Ross Ford
Stuart McInally
Neil Cochrane
George Turner

by **RDW** Mon 29 Feb 2016, 4:07 pm

Ford's contract is still up for renewal

by funnyExiledScot Mon 29 Feb 2016, 4:42 pm

That's an interesting point - he's paid a King's ransom as well in Edinburgh terms. Whilst I'd love to keep the awesome trio intact at Edinburgh, Ford is the most expendable of the three, especially with McInally coming through and Cochrane/Turner both being competent.

by Hazel Sapling Mon 29 Feb 2016, 5:00 pm

Bryce to Edinburgh. Now that Gilchrist is going the physio needs a new best friend

by funnyExiledScot Mon 29 Feb 2016, 5:23 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Bryce to Edinburgh. Now that Gilchrist is going the physio needs a new best friend

This is a good call. The poor physio is probably fearing redundancy with Gilchrist leaving.

by A Simply Mesmeric Try Mon 29 Feb 2016, 6:03 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:Bryce to Edinburgh. Now that Gilchrist is going the physio needs a new best friend

This is a good call. The poor physio is probably fearing redundancy with Gilchrist leaving.

Gilco leaving?

by **RDW** Mon 29 Feb 2016, 6:10 pm

Toulon, believe it or not!

by A Simply Mesmeric Try Mon 29 Feb 2016, 6:18 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Toulon, believe it or not!

Joining young Andrew Crammond (among others) in the Toulon engine room? Wowzers

by **RDW** Mon 29 Feb 2016, 6:27 pm

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Toulon, believe it or not!

Joining young Andrew Crammond (among others) in the Toulon engine room? Wowzers

Replacing Paul O'Connoll, naturally!

by A Simply Mesmeric Try Mon 29 Feb 2016, 6:32 pm

That's amazing! Hopefully they can remove the glass from his bones.

Check this out - Damien MacKenzie (as mentioned on my SQ player thread) showed everybody that when it comes to tackling size doesn't matter, technique does.

by **RDW** Mon 29 Feb 2016, 7:43 pm

Been confirmed that Greig Tonks has left Edinburgh with immediate effect and it is a permanent move!

by Hazel Sapling Mon 29 Feb 2016, 7:53 pm

Explains why he was nowhere near the 23 for the Scarlets game. Decent enough player who got messed about playing 10. Hopefully he can rediscover his form and compete for more caps.

by Nematode Mon 29 Feb 2016, 9:56 pm

Seems a bit unfitting that he's off without a proper final game - 79 appearances for Edinburgh and that's it.

Can't help feel that he was mucked around a bit playing at 10 - he wasn't really given enough time at Edinburgh or Scotland to really have a crack at owning the jersey. With Weir moving to Edinburgh, it would appear that he's just been shoved out.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 8:45 am

I suspect that Tonks will get a fair crack at the London Irish 10 jersey for the rest of the season.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 9:02 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:I suspect that Tonks will get a fair crack at the London Irish 10 jersey for the rest of the season.

Based on his performances there this season for Edinburgh that might not help you cause too much!

I like Tonks as a player and think he's been a good servant for Edinburgh over the years but something really hasn't been right with him this season.

Maybe that's why he's off / has been because he knew he was off?

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 9:08 am

We are currently starting an 18 year old with no top flight experience at 10 in a relegation battle, so whatever his form has been like he will bring experience to the table. It may be the kickstart he needs as well. I hope he gets thrown straight in this weekend for us.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 9:10 am

Well I hope he does well for you - LI are starting to become our 3rd pro team at this rate!

He's got a good basic skill set - strong in defence, huge left boot, good passer and has an eye for a gap. He's mainly been a 15 though so his game management is sometimes not the best at 10. The main problem we've had this season is he's just made silly mistakes or bad decisions - he's just not seemed right.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 9:29 am

Meanwhile, Edinburgh have announced some 'Big News' coming up today - suggests a re-signing.

by MacKnocked-on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 9:42 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Meanwhile, Edinburgh have announced some 'Big News' coming up today - suggests a re-signing.

'Big news coming up throughout the day', suggests more than one signing or a number of re-signings doesn't it.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 9:56 am

Dell and Berghan sign new deals.

Good news in itself, but still no Nel!

Dell has been a bit 'meh' since arriving given his promising pedigree but has been pretty good of late now he's had a run of games. He'll still be 3rd choice behind Dickinson and Sutherland though.

Berghan showed against the Scarlets what we all thought - he's a complete beast and needs more gametime!

by VinceWLB Tue 01 Mar 2016, 10:08 am

Absolutely chuffed about this news, not sure where i read it but someone said Berghan could be even better than Nel and i totally agree with. As for Dell he could be a dominant loosehead as well even though the competition will be firm with Dickinson and Sutherland.

Am i reading it right those are only 1 year extension though?

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 10:19 am

Dell is 2 years, Berghan it didn't say as far as I can see.

A poorly worded article!

Edinburgh Rugby signings for season 2016/17

Allan Dell*

Simon Berghan*

Tom Brown**

Phil Burleigh

Cornell Du Preez

Neil Cochrane*

Duncan Weir**

Damien Hoyland**

Stuart McInally**

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne**

Chris Dean*

Alasdair Dickinson**

Ben Toolis**

Jamie Ritchie*

* Scottish qualified
** Scotland internationalist

by MacKnocked-on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 10:20 am

Both are young, Dell is eight or nine years younger than Dickinson and Berghan is four or five years younger than Nel, and I'm sure both will play for Scotland. Good signings.

by **BigGee** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 10:26 am

2 years for Dell and 1 for Berghan I think, the article did not seem to specific about the later.

Berghan has great potential but he is not Nel yet, who can play 80 mins week in week out. Solly seems reluctant to start Bereghan which suggests that he is not convinced about his fitness and ability to last. At the moment he seems more suited to coming on and destroying a tiring scrum than starting.

Fitness can be worked on though and hopefully he will grow into that role, he is getting good exposure now and clearly becomming a better player by the game for it. Probably still needs a bit of work on the rest of his game though. Again he is light years behind Nel on that regard.

In short he is a work in progress, but no doubt has great potential and if he continues to devleop could no doubt be capped. There are quite a lot of similarities with Cussack at Glasgow but as he showed, international props need to be more than just scrummagers.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 10:27 am

BigGee wrote:2 years for Dell and 1 for Berghan I think, the article did not seem to specific about the later.

Berghan has great potential but he is not Nel yet, who can play 80 mins week in week out. Solly seems reluctant to start Bereghan which suggests that he is not convinced about his fitness and ability to last. At the moment he seems more suited to coming on and destroying a tiring scrum than starting.

Fitness can be worked on though and hopefully he will grow into that role, he is getting good exposure now and clearly becomming a better player by the game for it. Probably still needs a bit of work on the rest of his game though. Again he is light years behind Nel on that regard.

In short he is a work in progress, but no doubt has great potential and if he continues to devleop could no doubt be capped. There are quite a lot of similarities with Cussack at Glasgow but as he showed, international props need to be more than just scrummagers.

This ^

by Hazel Sapling Tue 01 Mar 2016, 10:41 am

Berghan put in a few tackles from memory (and gave away a kickable penalty coming in from the side late). He is a work in progress and worth 2 years rather than a year. He has played 151 minutes this season in 10 sub appearances. 40 came in that last match and he is moving up from the couple of minutes at the start of the season to 15 to 30 in the last couple of games (http://www.pro12rugby.com/statzone/players.php?player=116071&includeref=dynamic#yy5rHwFCb4g0yUhy.97). Good progression. Can't find tackling stats but he seemed willing to put in tackles against Scarlets and do the donkey work in the clear out. He could be a devastating carrier in time with his size.

Dell I am happy with. He had a powerful scrummaging performance as well and looks like a player who could use playing time. If Dickinson or Sutherland get an offer, he will be a really good backup.

Now if Edinburgh could sign someone who can kick the penalties...

by funnyExiledScot Tue 01 Mar 2016, 10:53 am

I'm very pleased with the Dell and Berghan signings. Both SQ with plenty of potential. Dell has really stepped up in recent weeks, and reminds me very much of a younger Ali Dickinson - great in the loose and technically good in the scrum, albeit with a little more work to be done in that area. I think Dell will end up with some Scotland caps, albeit Sutherland ahead of him in the pecking order.

We've all wanted to see more of Berghan, and with Andress leaving next season will be a big one for him.

We need to re-sign Nel. That's the big one. He is fundamental to our progress as a team and should be our best paid player.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 10:54 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:
Now if Edinburgh could sign someone who can kick the penalties...

Hidalgo-Clyne is the clear front runner as a top class kicker and Kinghorn looks like he will be one too.

After that the cupboard is fairly empty. Fowles is very inconsistent - good one game, rubbish the next, and Cuthbert is a bit of an all or nothing player when it comes to kicking.

I suspect we're going to see a lot more of Kinghorn next season at 15.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:11 am

Apparently a big signing is being announced!

by Hazel Sapling Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:16 am

For Edinburgh I am hoping Nel or a quality 13

by funnyExiledScot Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:23 am

Nel. It has to be Nel.

by MacKnocked-on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:26 am

3 more years for Ross Ford

by demosthenes Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:28 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Nel. It has to be Nel.

Ford. 3 years!

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:33 am

I'm please with that I think, but wouldn't have been too upset if he had left.

It also softens the blow if Nel is leaving - 2 world class scrummaging front rows (yes, I went there!) is still a pretty good thing to have at a club!

by MacKnocked-on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:45 am

From the Edinburgh press release, hope this is true; 'The deal will see Ford continue his well-established front-row relationship with WP Nel and Alasdair Dickinson'

by **BigGee** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:55 am

'announcements throughout the day' definitely a front row theme. Could we still be waiting for the big one?

by CraigS1874 Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:56 am

Steve Scott the rugby journalist just tweeted me saying he has a clause in his current contract for a fourth year and edinburgh have activated it.

Personally disappointed to seed ford stay on, he will be on a big wage and will deny mcinally/cochrane valuable game time. Would rather see the wages spent elsewhere but that is me being greedy

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:58 am

Is there a concern that Edinburgh are becoming a bit front row heavy in terms of resources in the squad? If we re-sign Nel as well all 3 of them will be on big bucks, meaning less money for elsewhere.

Our 2nd choice front row would hold it's own against most teams, and 2 of them are likely to have international aspirations in the own right!

by CraigS1874 Tue 01 Mar 2016, 12:00 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Is there a concern that Edinburgh are becoming a bit front row heavy in terms of resources in the squad? If we re-sign Nel as well all 3 of them will be on big bucks, meaning less money for elsewhere.

Our 2nd choice front row would hold it's own against most teams, and 2 of them are likely to have international aspirations in the own right!

It depends entirely what our plan is, with the acquisition of weir I feel we will soon play a very territorial brand of rugby so we will need strength in depth for the front row

by funnyExiledScot Tue 01 Mar 2016, 12:00 pm

I'm pleased with Ford re-signing, but only if Nel continues with us. We could have covered the loss of Ford, but Nel is vital.

by **RDW** Tue 01 Mar 2016, 12:02 pm

CraigS1874 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Is there a concern that Edinburgh are becoming a bit front row heavy in terms of resources in the squad? If we re-sign Nel as well all 3 of them will be on big bucks, meaning less money for elsewhere.

Our 2nd choice front row would hold it's own against most teams, and 2 of them are likely to have international aspirations in the own right!

It depends entirely what our plan is, with the acquisition of weir I feel we will soon play a very territorial brand of rugby so we will need strength in depth for the front row

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that's what we'll do.

We shouldn't really complain about too many good front row options, but it may leave us top heavy as a squad.

No point winning lots of scrum penalties if we do bugger all with it.

by nickj Tue 01 Mar 2016, 12:08 pm

Craig - do you mean Nel has a 4th year?>

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