Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XI - The Undiscovered Country

[IanBru]

First topic message reminder :

A Brief History of Time-Wasting


https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
https://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues
https://www.606v2.com/t56913-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vi-banter-boogaloo
https://www.606v2.com/t57946-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vii
https://www.606v2.com/t58659-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-viii
https://www.606v2.com/t59409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ix
https://www.606v2.com/t60764-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-x-rated

Edinburgh

1872 Champions

Glasgow

1872 Runners-up

Ladies and Gentlemen, it's THE RUN IN!

[RDW]

Craig - do you mean Nel has a 4th year?>

I think he does.

Dickinson
Ford
Nel

All in their primes

Boom!

[BigGee]

Is there a concern that Edinburgh are becoming a bit front row heavy in terms of resources in the squad? If we re-sign Nel as well all 3 of them will be on big bucks, meaning less money for elsewhere.

Our 2nd choice front row would hold it's own against most teams, and 2 of them are likely to have international aspirations in the own right!

I would think that it is only the senior three that are going to be on serious money. Dell, Bereghan, Sutherland and the others will get a rise but it won't break the bank.

Every half decent squad needs three decent front row options for each positon to cover a bit of rest, rotation, international calls and injuries. Sometimes even that is not enough. Expect another TH to be on their way if Andress really is off.

If they can deliver a solid platform up front then anything is possible. Look how Glasgow sufferred at the begining of the season when our scrum stopped producing the goods. Duncy can play a bit when given the chance, you saw his try the other week. He is a genuine FH which Edinburgh currently don't have and a lot of the prolbems with Edinburghs back play do stem from that.

[Tramptastic]

Hi guys, long time lurker, very rare commenter on here but I came across an interesting Scottish club rugby issue at the weekend and thought I'd see if anyone on here who currently plays or used to play in Scottish amateur club came experience the same situation and what their thoughts are...

So I play for Lismore RFC, an Edinburgh club based at the Inch Park in the south side of Edinburgh. We play in Edinburgh East League Division 3 and at the weekend just past we played against Gala YM - a club affiliated with/part of Gala (the Premier League club).

We are very close to Gala in terms of points and therefore promotion this season and at the weekend after the final whistle we had lost 37-8 despite only being down 8-0 at half time. After the whistle we were handed their official teamsheet, low and behold every single player bar 1 were regular features in the Gala 1XV and 8 of them were involved in the Scottish academies/Edinburgh and Glasgow set up/Club international XV!

So we are considering a formal complaint about a Gala YM but we wont gain anything from it. I just find it hilarious that the head coach for Gala was complaining about professional players being loaned to premier teams and creating unfair mismatches - I'd suggest that players regularly playing 7 leagues above and 7 leagues below should not be playing in the same match!

Anyone else experienced this in Scottish rugby/any form of club rugby? I'd suggest, without any statistical evidence beyond word of mouth, that it's more prevalent amongst borders teams seen as they still think its the 80s/90s and they still run Scottish rugby...

[Hazel Sapling]

I am happy enough with Ford. Should Nel re-sign they will not need anything more that is too expensive. A good 13 should not break the bank otherwise they need largely backups (3rd Tighthead, 5th lock (really an EDP which Glasgow have 3 of), maybe 1 squad backrow, 2nd-3rd fly half). Really none of those are particularly expensive to find. Building a brutal pack with a good kicker and competent backs play should be enough to fight for a top 6 spot and be competitive in the Euro comp.

[BigGee]

Playing ringers in rugby has been going on since time and memorial. Is it any more controlled in these league orientated days, I doubt it.

One season for the club i played for, a big cohort of the first Xv feel out with the captain and refused to play for him. They spent the whole season down in the 3rds with me and boy did we have a good season. New captain came in the following year and brought them all back on board.

All part of the joys of amateur rugby!

[RDW]

Hi guys, long time lurker, very rare commenter on here but I came across an interesting Scottish club rugby issue at the weekend and thought I'd see if anyone on here who currently plays or used to play in Scottish amateur club came experience the same situation and what their thoughts are...

So I play for Lismore RFC, an Edinburgh club based at the Inch Park in the south side of Edinburgh. We play in Edinburgh East League Division 3 and at the weekend just past we played against Gala YM - a club affiliated with/part of Gala (the Premier League club).

We are very close to Gala in terms of points and therefore promotion this season and at the weekend after the final whistle we had lost 37-8 despite only being down 8-0 at half time. After the whistle we were handed their official teamsheet, low and behold every single player bar 1 were regular features in the Gala 1XV and 8 of them were involved in the Scottish academies/Edinburgh and Glasgow set up/Club international XV!

So we are considering a formal complaint about a Gala YM but we wont gain anything from it. I just find it hilarious that the head coach for Gala was complaining about professional players being loaned to premier teams and creating unfair mismatches - I'd suggest that players regularly playing 7 leagues above and 7 leagues below should not be playing in the same match!

Anyone else experienced this in Scottish rugby/any form of club rugby? I'd suggest, without any statistical evidence beyond word of mouth, that it's more prevalent amongst borders teams seen as they still think its the 80s/90s and they still run Scottish rugby...

I can very much relate to that, and unfortunately there's not really a lot that can be done about it other than rely on clubs' good will to not be ridiculous when it comes to putting players out in lower leagues.

I generally play 2nd XV level and you can guarantee that if we play a club whose 1st XV don't have a game then most of them are going to be playing against you.  Last year we comfortably beat a team away from home but when we played them at home they rocked up with large support and a load of players unrecognizable from the previous fixture - we put in a great shift against them but ultimately lost. Needless to say their 1st XV game was cancelled.

Similarly this season we played a Prem 1 private school FPs '3rds' on the day of the Scotland Samoa game (our league was pretty much the only league with fixtures on that day) and we know for a fact we were playing their 2s with some 1s players.  Their tighthead was only released from Edinburgh last season FFS (and got himself sent off!). Again we put in a good shift and lost narrowly, but if we had been playing their 3s I think we would have won comfortably. They are currently in a relegation battle with us - these things make a big difference.

And I can say with confidence that, as much as possible, my club doesn't do that.  If our 1s don't have a game then we only get 1s players playing for the 2s if we are short of players in that position, and even then it is usually those who were meant to be subbing.  Rarely do we ever get the top 1s players - maybe only if they are coming back from injury. Those that commit week in week out to the 2s get preference.

It is very frustrating when you have a decent squad available and the game is called off for weather.  When the fixture is re-arranged we're suddenly struggling for players and end up playing against a 1st XV because their 1s game is off - sods law!

[Tramptastic]

Aye it's been happening for a long while but in a day and age when rugby numbers are so small and a clubs survival and ability to recruit can depend on promotion so when a massive club drops a chunk of its top players down 7 leagues to help out that must be unrealistically unfair...

Essentially it protects the establishment where wee clubs with no ringers dont stand a chance. And the bl**dy cheek of Galas head coach to bemoan professional ringers! Makes my blood boil...

[Tramptastic]

Hi guys, long time lurker, very rare commenter on here but I came across an interesting Scottish club rugby issue at the weekend and thought I'd see if anyone on here who currently plays or used to play in Scottish amateur club came experience the same situation and what their thoughts are...

So I play for Lismore RFC, an Edinburgh club based at the Inch Park in the south side of Edinburgh. We play in Edinburgh East League Division 3 and at the weekend just past we played against Gala YM - a club affiliated with/part of Gala (the Premier League club).

We are very close to Gala in terms of points and therefore promotion this season and at the weekend after the final whistle we had lost 37-8 despite only being down 8-0 at half time. After the whistle we were handed their official teamsheet, low and behold every single player bar 1 were regular features in the Gala 1XV and 8 of them were involved in the Scottish academies/Edinburgh and Glasgow set up/Club international XV!

So we are considering a formal complaint about a Gala YM but we wont gain anything from it. I just find it hilarious that the head coach for Gala was complaining about professional players being loaned to premier teams and creating unfair mismatches - I'd suggest that players regularly playing 7 leagues above and 7 leagues below should not be playing in the same match!

Anyone else experienced this in Scottish rugby/any form of club rugby? I'd suggest, without any statistical evidence beyond word of mouth, that it's more prevalent amongst borders teams seen as they still think its the 80s/90s and they still run Scottish rugby...

I can very much relate to that, and unfortunately there's not really a lot that can be done about it other than rely on clubs' good will to not be ridiculous when it comes to putting players out in lower leagues.

I generally play 2nd XV level and you can guarantee that if we play a club whose 1st XV don't have a game then most of them are going to be playing against you.  Last year we comfortably beat a team away from home but when we played them at home they rocked up with large support and a load of players unrecognizable from the previous fixture - we put in a great shift against them but ultimately lost. Needless to say their 1st XV game was cancelled.

Similarly this season we played a Prem 1 private school FPs '3rds' on the day of the Scotland Samoa game (our league was pretty much the only league with fixtures on that day) and we know for a fact we were playing their 2s with some 1s players.  Their tighthead was only released from Edinburgh last season FFS (and got himself sent off!). Again we put in a good shift and lost narrowly, but if we had been playing their 3s I think we would have won comfortably. They are currently in a relegation battle with us - these things make a big difference.

And I can say with confidence that, as much as possible, my club doesn't do that.  If our 1s don't have a game then we only get 1s players playing for the 2s if we are short of players in that position, and even then it is usually those who were meant to be subbing.  Rarely do we ever get the top 1s players - maybe only if they are coming back from injury. Those that commit week in week out to the 2s get preference.

It is very frustrating when you have a decent squad available and the game is called off for weather.  When the fixture is re-arranged we're suddenly struggling for players and end up playing against a 1st XV because their 1s game is off - sods law!

What club do you play for? Our clubs 2XV is in the same league as a couple of Prem 1 private school FPs XVs!

[RDW]

Hi guys, long time lurker, very rare commenter on here but I came across an interesting Scottish club rugby issue at the weekend and thought I'd see if anyone on here who currently plays or used to play in Scottish amateur club came experience the same situation and what their thoughts are...

So I play for Lismore RFC, an Edinburgh club based at the Inch Park in the south side of Edinburgh. We play in Edinburgh East League Division 3 and at the weekend just past we played against Gala YM - a club affiliated with/part of Gala (the Premier League club).

We are very close to Gala in terms of points and therefore promotion this season and at the weekend after the final whistle we had lost 37-8 despite only being down 8-0 at half time. After the whistle we were handed their official teamsheet, low and behold every single player bar 1 were regular features in the Gala 1XV and 8 of them were involved in the Scottish academies/Edinburgh and Glasgow set up/Club international XV!

So we are considering a formal complaint about a Gala YM but we wont gain anything from it. I just find it hilarious that the head coach for Gala was complaining about professional players being loaned to premier teams and creating unfair mismatches - I'd suggest that players regularly playing 7 leagues above and 7 leagues below should not be playing in the same match!

Anyone else experienced this in Scottish rugby/any form of club rugby? I'd suggest, without any statistical evidence beyond word of mouth, that it's more prevalent amongst borders teams seen as they still think its the 80s/90s and they still run Scottish rugby...

I can very much relate to that, and unfortunately there's not really a lot that can be done about it other than rely on clubs' good will to not be ridiculous when it comes to putting players out in lower leagues.

I generally play 2nd XV level and you can guarantee that if we play a club whose 1st XV don't have a game then most of them are going to be playing against you.  Last year we comfortably beat a team away from home but when we played them at home they rocked up with large support and a load of players unrecognizable from the previous fixture - we put in a great shift against them but ultimately lost. Needless to say their 1st XV game was cancelled.

Similarly this season we played a Prem 1 private school FPs '3rds' on the day of the Scotland Samoa game (our league was pretty much the only league with fixtures on that day) and we know for a fact we were playing their 2s with some 1s players.  Their tighthead was only released from Edinburgh last season FFS (and got himself sent off!). Again we put in a good shift and lost narrowly, but if we had been playing their 3s I think we would have won comfortably. They are currently in a relegation battle with us - these things make a big difference.

And I can say with confidence that, as much as possible, my club doesn't do that.  If our 1s don't have a game then we only get 1s players playing for the 2s if we are short of players in that position, and even then it is usually those who were meant to be subbing.  Rarely do we ever get the top 1s players - maybe only if they are coming back from injury. Those that commit week in week out to the 2s get preference.

It is very frustrating when you have a decent squad available and the game is called off for weather.  When the fixture is re-arranged we're suddenly struggling for players and end up playing against a 1st XV because their 1s game is off - sods law!

What club do you play for? Our clubs 2XV is in the same league as a couple of Prem 1 private school FPs XVs!

RHC. Our coach and captain used to be at your club I'm fairly sure!

[Tramptastic]

Hi guys, long time lurker, very rare commenter on here but I came across an interesting Scottish club rugby issue at the weekend and thought I'd see if anyone on here who currently plays or used to play in Scottish amateur club came experience the same situation and what their thoughts are...

So I play for Lismore RFC, an Edinburgh club based at the Inch Park in the south side of Edinburgh. We play in Edinburgh East League Division 3 and at the weekend just past we played against Gala YM - a club affiliated with/part of Gala (the Premier League club).

We are very close to Gala in terms of points and therefore promotion this season and at the weekend after the final whistle we had lost 37-8 despite only being down 8-0 at half time. After the whistle we were handed their official teamsheet, low and behold every single player bar 1 were regular features in the Gala 1XV and 8 of them were involved in the Scottish academies/Edinburgh and Glasgow set up/Club international XV!

So we are considering a formal complaint about a Gala YM but we wont gain anything from it. I just find it hilarious that the head coach for Gala was complaining about professional players being loaned to premier teams and creating unfair mismatches - I'd suggest that players regularly playing 7 leagues above and 7 leagues below should not be playing in the same match!

Anyone else experienced this in Scottish rugby/any form of club rugby? I'd suggest, without any statistical evidence beyond word of mouth, that it's more prevalent amongst borders teams seen as they still think its the 80s/90s and they still run Scottish rugby...

I can very much relate to that, and unfortunately there's not really a lot that can be done about it other than rely on clubs' good will to not be ridiculous when it comes to putting players out in lower leagues.

I generally play 2nd XV level and you can guarantee that if we play a club whose 1st XV don't have a game then most of them are going to be playing against you.  Last year we comfortably beat a team away from home but when we played them at home they rocked up with large support and a load of players unrecognizable from the previous fixture - we put in a great shift against them but ultimately lost. Needless to say their 1st XV game was cancelled.

Similarly this season we played a Prem 1 private school FPs '3rds' on the day of the Scotland Samoa game (our league was pretty much the only league with fixtures on that day) and we know for a fact we were playing their 2s with some 1s players.  Their tighthead was only released from Edinburgh last season FFS (and got himself sent off!). Again we put in a good shift and lost narrowly, but if we had been playing their 3s I think we would have won comfortably. They are currently in a relegation battle with us - these things make a big difference.

And I can say with confidence that, as much as possible, my club doesn't do that.  If our 1s don't have a game then we only get 1s players playing for the 2s if we are short of players in that position, and even then it is usually those who were meant to be subbing.  Rarely do we ever get the top 1s players - maybe only if they are coming back from injury. Those that commit week in week out to the 2s get preference.

It is very frustrating when you have a decent squad available and the game is called off for weather.  When the fixture is re-arranged we're suddenly struggling for players and end up playing against a 1st XV because their 1s game is off - sods law!

What club do you play for? Our clubs 2XV is in the same league as a couple of Prem 1 private school FPs XVs!

RHC. Our coach and captain used to be at your club I'm fairly sure!

Ahhh you're way above us in playing! You've got to wonder at the ineptitude for the SRU to allow ringers in a day and age when varying fitness levels between clubs in different leagues can mean a complete mismatch (both at scrum time and in collisions) and can actually be quite dangerous!

[RDW]

This probably needs a thread on its own, but grassroots amateur rugby in Scotland really is going downhill rapidly, and is close to being in a fairly desperate state.

The problem? Players, players, players.

Clubs across the board are struggling to fullfill fixtures just now for their 2nd / 3rd teams because there just aren't enough players anymore. Even some well establish Private School clubs are struggling, and a lot of the famous borders teams aren't even managing to regularly put out 2nd XVs.

The top Prem 1 teams are doing fine and always will do, but there are real concerns about the future of the amateur game in Scotland.

[Tramptastic]

The thing is at Lismore because we are close to the Kings buildings we get a lot of science students but we don't have anywhere near enough players committing to training twice a week and playing on a Saturday!

We even have a brand new fully floodlit pitch but numbers are still low... I despair sometimes

[nickj]

I read somewhere that Sam Johnson may swap Glasgow for Edinburgh? Has anyone else heard that rumou? I'd support it if it was true, he has looked pretty useful over the last couple of months and Glasgow have plenty of top centres. However I had him down as a 13? Surely Edinburgh need a 12

[BigGee]

I read somewhere that Sam Johnson may swap Glasgow for Edinburgh? Has anyone else heard that rumou? I'd support it if it was true, he has looked pretty useful over the last couple of months and Glasgow have plenty of top centres. However I had him down as a 13? Surely Edinburgh need a 12

I think he plays both and is pretty decent whichever shirt he has on.

That would probably be a decent move all round, as you say, Glasgow are not short of decent centres and the traffic does not all have to be one way, east to west. Perhaps this is another example of more joined up thinking in the SRU. There seems to have been a fair bit of that going on recently, what is going on?

[RDW]

The thing is at Lismore because we are close to the Kings buildings we get a lot of science students but we don't have anywhere near enough players committing to training twice a week and playing on a Saturday!

We even have a brand new fully floodlit pitch but numbers are still low... I despair sometimes

The other big issue is paying players. My club doesn't, but a lot of clubs around our level and just above do. Some have tried and fail - a well known Edinburgh club climbed up the leagues by paying players and bringing in well known coaches but it wasn't sustainable and it all wen't to pot, and they are now back where they started from.

Several of our players have been approached by other clubs offering up to £80 a game plus travel expenses.

Some Prem 1 / Prem 2 teams have player budgets £30k+ !

[RDW]

I read somewhere that Sam Johnson may swap Glasgow for Edinburgh? Has anyone else heard that rumou? I'd support it if it was true, he has looked pretty useful over the last couple of months and Glasgow have plenty of top centres. However I had him down as a 13? Surely Edinburgh need a 12

I think he plays both and is pretty decent whichever shirt he has on.

That would probably be a decent move all round, as you say, Glasgow are not short of decent centres and the traffic does not all have to be one way, east to west. Perhaps this is another example of more joined up thinking in the SRU. There seems to have been a fair bit of that going on recently, what is going on?

We haven't seen much of Sam Johnson, but he showed up well for Glasgow recently when he got a few games.

Very much in the Sam Beard mould of a player from what I could see - so would pretty much be a like-for-like replacement!

[Hazel Sapling]

Sam Johnson was playing 12 with Bryce at 13 and did a solid job. He may have a higher ceiling as he is turning 23 middle of this year and was looking better game to game.
Centres of Burleigh, Johnson, Allen, Dean, and Helu can cover. None will represent Scotland next year (barring a sudden change). Say 1 is injured and 1 needs a week's rest there is still cover. Dean's injury history and Helu being injured much of this year suggests maybe 1 more would be needed if you really wanted to be picky.

Please don't be Strauss (who somehow got a cap in 2010 for SA according to Wiki).

[CraigS1874]

The thing is at Lismore because we are close to the Kings buildings we get a lot of science students but we don't have anywhere near enough players committing to training twice a week and playing on a Saturday!

We even have a brand new fully floodlit pitch but numbers are still low... I despair sometimes

The other big issue is paying players.  My club doesn't, but a lot of clubs around our level and just above do.  Some have tried and fail - a well known Edinburgh club climbed up the leagues by paying players and bringing in well known coaches but it wasn't sustainable and it all wen't to pot, and they are now back where they started from.

Several of our players have been approached by other clubs offering up to £80 a game plus travel expenses.

Some Prem 1 / Prem 2 teams have player budgets £30k+ !

A certain East Lothian club won promotion from your league last year and they were not scared of using their bank account to get promotion from that league.

My club north berwick went 13 wins from 13 this year before coming against the "chelsea" of borders rugby a team who have not lost in 55 games or something due to the money invested in their squad, we lost away 17-15 and will now likely miss out on promotion to a league where we would of finished in a respectable position.

Frustrating but that is life.

[RDW]

The thing is at Lismore because we are close to the Kings buildings we get a lot of science students but we don't have anywhere near enough players committing to training twice a week and playing on a Saturday!

We even have a brand new fully floodlit pitch but numbers are still low... I despair sometimes

The other big issue is paying players.  My club doesn't, but a lot of clubs around our level and just above do.  Some have tried and fail - a well known Edinburgh club climbed up the leagues by paying players and bringing in well known coaches but it wasn't sustainable and it all wen't to pot, and they are now back where they started from.

Several of our players have been approached by other clubs offering up to £80 a game plus travel expenses.

Some Prem 1 / Prem 2 teams have player budgets £30k+ !

A certain East Lothian club won promotion from your league last year and they were not scared of using their bank account to get promotion from that league.

I know a few players who play for said club, and know how much they earn!

We beat them in pre-season this year though despite having an injury ravaged squad - I came on at 2nd row (I'm a fullback / centre) and was meant to be playing for the 2s after the 1s game!

I say meant to play for the 2s, I ended up having to play for them after as well!

[Majestic83]

The thing is at Lismore because we are close to the Kings buildings we get a lot of science students but we don't have anywhere near enough players committing to training twice a week and playing on a Saturday!

We even have a brand new fully floodlit pitch but numbers are still low... I despair sometimes

The other big issue is paying players.  My club doesn't, but a lot of clubs around our level and just above do.  Some have tried and fail - a well known Edinburgh club climbed up the leagues by paying players and bringing in well known coaches but it wasn't sustainable and it all wen't to pot, and they are now back where they started from.

Several of our players have been approached by other clubs offering up to £80 a game plus travel expenses.

Some Prem 1 / Prem 2 teams have player budgets £30k+ !

A certain East Lothian club won promotion from your league last year and they were not scared of using their bank account to get promotion from that league.

I know a few players who play for said club, and know how much they earn!

We beat them in pre-season this year though despite having an injury ravaged squad - I came on at 2nd row (I'm a fullback / centre) and was meant to be playing for the 2s after the 1s game!

I say meant to play for the 2s, I ended up having to play for them after as well!

Yes the hometown club of chunk and Scott Murray certainly like to throw the money about. They approached a good few players from Haddington a few seasons back offering silly money for us to go an join them. None of us did but I know a few from a couple of other local clubs did go to PL and were paid up to £200 a game.
The most annoying thing about that is that the club had received a lot of funding from the SRU and other organisations to refurbish their stand, changing rooms and clubhouse.
Have played against them a few times since and see no change in their facilities!They do have another major problem at that club though which needs addressing by the powers that be!

When we were in prem 2 about 4/5 years ago I think we were one of the few not to be receiving any kind of payment in that league, we also got the to the semi's of the Scottish cup in 09 and even then the Melrose boys who beat us were shocked we weren't getting any form of payment.
It does seem to be pretty common these days even in the lower leagues that some players get payment. Lasswade sold off land for housing development years back and built their new facility and at the same time also had a couple of guys who were full time pros playing for them.

[RDW]

What's your views on clubs playing ringers for lower level games Maj, leading to unfair imbalances?

That was the original topic of discussion further up the page...!

[Majestic83]

What's your views on clubs playing ringers for lower level games Maj, leading to unfair imbalances?

That was the original topic of discussion further up the page...!

It is a problem that needs something done about it. Our 2nds played Accies 3rds in a league game earlier this season. Accies 1sts & 2nds didn't have a fixture and they used the majority of them in that match. When we played them again it was a totally different squad and outcome.
A rule should be brought in that clubs can only play so many players who have been regulars for their 1st xv in their lower teams.
Haddington tend to keep the 1st xv and 2nd xv as separate squads, the only time any 1sts play for the 2nds is if they have been out injured for a while and need game time otherwise none tend to drop down.

[RDW]

What's your views on clubs playing ringers for lower level games Maj, leading to unfair imbalances?

That was the original topic of discussion further up the page...!

It is a problem that needs something done about it. Our 2nds played Accies 3rds in a league game earlier this season. Accies 1sts & 2nds didn't have a fixture and they used the majority of them in that match. When we played them again it was a totally different squad and outcome.
A rule should be brought in that clubs can only play so many players who have been regulars for their 1st xv in their lower teams.
Haddington tend to keep the 1st xv and 2nd xv as separate squads, the only time any 1sts play for the 2nds is if they have been out injured for a while and need game time otherwise none tend to drop down.

Sounds very similar to us then, and we had very similar experiences against Accies!

[Majestic83]

What's your views on clubs playing ringers for lower level games Maj, leading to unfair imbalances?

That was the original topic of discussion further up the page...!

It is a problem that needs something done about it. Our 2nds played Accies 3rds in a league game earlier this season. Accies 1sts & 2nds didn't have a fixture and they used the majority of them in that match. When we played them again it was a totally different squad and outcome.
A rule should be brought in that clubs can only play so many players who have been regulars for their 1st xv in their lower teams.
Haddington tend to keep the 1st xv and 2nd xv as separate squads, the only time any 1sts play for the 2nds is if they have been out injured for a while and need game time otherwise none tend to drop down.

Sounds very similar to us then, and we had very similar experiences against Accies!

Experienced the same with a few of the borders clubs as well when their firsts don't have games, a good few years back was playing for our 2nds in the border league and Hawick, Gala & Jed regularly did that.
Our 2nds lost our on the title one year due to losing against one of the borders teams that fielded their first XV in what everyone knew would be a title decider.

[RDW]

Would you back up my claims Maj that amateur rugby in Scotland is in decline, and that a lot of clubs are starting to really struggle?

My club used to regularly put out 3 teams, and this year we have struggled to get a 2nd XV some weeks. We lost 15 players from last year (which was a very successful year) and have replaced them with a few 18 year olds from school.

We've got a lot of talent coming through from the school (there's an impressive development programme in place) but they all bugger off to Uni, so they can't be relied upon to play for the club!

Our 2s have even been helping out a local club in the lower leagues when we've not had a game - and that is their 1st XV that is struggling for players.

[Tramptastic]

Its utterly atrocious (with regards to ringers and 1XV dropping down to 3XV level) and dangerous in some cases! When you have a 17 year old who's just passed the strength test and is lining up for the Lismore 2XV against Watsonians 3XV who had brought their 1XV centres its just not on.

Nobody learns anything beyond getting a bruising or running over the rugby equivalent of a sperm cell thats developed legs instead of a tail!

With regards to the drop in numbers this year and last wast shocking for the amount of games cancelled which could be a factor - this year alone we went 6 weeks without a game due to pitches not being playable! Everybody gets fed up and stops training or sees lower league clubs that just dont have the appropriate facilities for playing rugby.

An obvious solution is to play club rugby in the summer but that's an old long winded argument and the powers that be arent going to change any time soon, most likely due to the public school set up in scotland

[funnyExiledScot]

The thing is at Lismore because we are close to the Kings buildings we get a lot of science students but we don't have anywhere near enough players committing to training twice a week and playing on a Saturday!

We even have a brand new fully floodlit pitch but numbers are still low... I despair sometimes

The other big issue is paying players.  My club doesn't, but a lot of clubs around our level and just above do.  Some have tried and fail - a well known Edinburgh club climbed up the leagues by paying players and bringing in well known coaches but it wasn't sustainable and it all wen't to pot, and they are now back where they started from.

Several of our players have been approached by other clubs offering up to £80 a game plus travel expenses.

Some Prem 1 / Prem 2 teams have player budgets £30k+ !

Knowing you as I do, I can only imagine how much this hurts!

Are there any league rules preventing player payments? Expenses I can understand, although I suppose that opens the door.

[RDW]

The thing is at Lismore because we are close to the Kings buildings we get a lot of science students but we don't have anywhere near enough players committing to training twice a week and playing on a Saturday!

We even have a brand new fully floodlit pitch but numbers are still low... I despair sometimes

The other big issue is paying players.  My club doesn't, but a lot of clubs around our level and just above do.  Some have tried and fail - a well known Edinburgh club climbed up the leagues by paying players and bringing in well known coaches but it wasn't sustainable and it all wen't to pot, and they are now back where they started from.

Several of our players have been approached by other clubs offering up to £80 a game plus travel expenses.

Some Prem 1 / Prem 2 teams have player budgets £30k+ !

Knowing you as I do, I can only imagine how much this hurts!

Are there any league rules preventing player payments? Expenses I can understand, although I suppose that opens the door.

Nah I'm no where near good enough for someone to want to pay me to play!

I'd be surprised if there are rules - if they are then they are completely ignored!

Back in the day I think my club used to put the odd Aussie or Kiwi up in a flat for free and get them a job in return for their playing services, but that ended years ago.

[Majestic83]

Would you back up my claims Maj that amateur rugby in Scotland is in decline, and that a lot of clubs are starting to really struggle?

My club used to regularly put out 3 teams, and this year we have struggled to get a 2nd XV some weeks. We lost 15 players from last year (which was a very successful year) and have replaced them with a few 18 year olds from school.

We've got a lot of talent coming through from the school (there's an impressive development programme in place) but they all bugger off to Uni, so they can't be relied upon to play for the club!

Our 2s have even been helping out a local club in the lower leagues when we've not had a game - and that is their 1st XV that is struggling for players.

I would say yes in general that amateur rugby is in a bit of a decline at the moment and most clubs are struggling to put out a 2nds team and even sometimes a 1st XV.

Back in 2008/09 Haddington were putting out 3 teams each week and probably could have put out a 4th team at one point. Since that season the club has gone in a bit of a decline due to players moving to other clubs or moving away from the area so we have dropped down the leagues and for a couple seasons we were struggling to put out a 2nd XV.
We have bucked the trend though and this season we have managed to put out a strong 1st XV and a strong 2nd XV and regularly have a 3rds/social side playing as well. We have had quite a big number come through from colts which has helped and also a few moving back to the area or taking up rugby again after not playing for a few years.
The playing numbers seem to be good up to Colts level but then there is a worrying trend that once they get to senior rugby a high number of players are giving up, some of them very good players who would make an impact.
Over the last 6/7 years we have had 3 players play for Scotland u20 and one play for Scotland 7s, none of those guys are playing any rugby at all now. The SRU and the clubs need to do more to encourage people to stay in the sport.

[MacKnocked-on]

Not really a story about ringers but I once played as a 17 year old for Howe of Fife veterans to make up the numbers in a fixture against Aboyne over 35s, Dave Rollo played for Howe and he was then in to his 60s and I honestly thought his opposition prop (at least twenty years younger and a good deal bigger) was going to end up in hospital such was the technique that Rollo still possessed. That was certainly a mismatch.

[RDW]

Looks like Cusak isn't done yet - he's signed for Newcastle!

[BigGee]

Good for Glasgow giving Big Mike the chance to stake a claim elsewhere. He clearly has not been part of Glasgow's plans going forward. A shame really considering what a force he was a few years back, but injury and the new scrum engagement process seem to have blunted his edge. In his day though, he was some prop!

[MacKnocked-on]

Good for Glasgow giving Big Mike the chance to stake a claim elsewhere. He clearly has not been part of Glasgow's plans going forward. A shame really considering what a force he was a few years back, but injury and the new scrum engagement process seem to have blunted his edge. In his day though, he was some prop!

Newcastle obviously don't think that's an issue, be interesting to see how he gets on. Best of luck to him.

[RDW]

Or they're desperate...

[VinceWLB]

Disappointed Cusack didn't get a proper send of (like Ryder previously and Denton at Embra) but lets be brutally honest he isn't going to be a big loss and has been a huge waste of money over the years as he must have been on fairly big bucks.

[Hazel Sapling]

Disappointed Cusack didn't get a proper send of (like Ryder previously and Denton at Embra) but lets be brutally honest he isn't going to be a big loss and has been a huge waste of money over the years as he must have been on fairly big bucks.

Not sure about huge money (such as Grant or Ford) but it was a waste over the last 3 years. That illness seemed to ruin him and like Grant, the new scrum rules have been bad news. He probably has not been healthy enough to get used to them.

Shame he did not get a send off however Glasgow treated him well and doubt there is any bitterness.

[funnyExiledScot]

Agreed - I'm not sure he'd have been on big money but whatever he's been paid over the last 2 years hasn't represented value for money.

Still, in his pomp under the old scrum rules I didn't see him once bettered, and a number of loosehead props were utterly destroyed by Mike Cusack. Farewell big guy, I'm sure Jon Welsh will have discussed him with Dean Richards, so I'm pretty sure they know what they're getting.

[RDW]

More exciting news from Edinburgh this morning apparently!

[Hazel Sapling]

More exciting news from Edinburgh this morning apparently!

Probably announce they have re-signed SA centre Andries Strauss

[funnyExiledScot]

I saw that as well. I'm sure it's good PR to announce news in this piecemeal manner, but it's extremely annoying for us with no patience whatsoever!

Not sure who is left on contract renewals, but even better would be a strong new addition to the squad. Folau? Dagg? Le Roux? Picamoles? I'm not fussy.

[RDW]

The majority of the squad needed contracts renewed so I think there will be plenty more announcements to come!

[RDW]

It's a new signing apparently!

[RDW]

Ulster wing Rory Scholes.

Why do we need a NSQ winger???

Why do we need a winger full stop??

[Hazel Sapling]

The Ulsterman seem to rate him and Helu has spent the year injured. Maybe Helu is on the way and Scholes is replacing him? Scholes must cover 13 or else what is the point?

[des]

1. Not sure
2. Because Tom Brown is off to Gloucester (maybe)?

Agree with your puzzlement.

[RDW]

1. Not sure
2. Because Tom Brown is off to Gloucester (maybe)?

Agree with your puzzlement.

He's recently signed a 1 year extenstion

[RDW]

Scholes, 22, has made 22 appearances for Ulster Rugby since joining the club from Belfast Harlequins in 2013, and has signed a contract that will see him don the black and red until May 2018.

On signing the deal, Scholes said: “The move to Edinburgh is a good challenge for me at this point in my career. I think they’re a team on the up and that I, personally, can bring something to the squad, and I’m really looking forward to coming over and getting to work.

“It looks as if it’s an exciting place to be; it’s a great club which is going in the right direction and that’s something I want to be involved in.

“I’ve had some really positive conversations with Alan [Solomons] that ticked all the right boxes, and I’ve heard nothing but good reports about Duncan Hodge – he’s somebody I’m definitely looking forward to working with, and hope that he can help me develop and evolve my game.

“I can’t wait to get over and get started.”

A proven finisher, in 13 appearances for Ulster this season – eight in the Guinness PRO12 and five in the European Rugby Champions Cup – he has crossed the line on five occasions.

To add to his scoring credentials, Scholes also boasts some impressive attacking stats from this season; 70 carries, 22 clean breaks and 25 defenders beaten.

Belfast born and bred, the wing, who is also comfortable at full-back, scored 33 points in nine appearances for Ireland under-20.

Head Coach Alan Solomons said: “We are pleased to welcome Rory to the club.

“He is a talented young player who, I have no doubt, will make his mark here at Edinburgh."

Scholes is the third wing to pen a deal with Edinburgh Rugby ahead of next season, with Scotland caps Damien Hoyland and Tom Brown having already committed to further terms at the club.

Rory Scholes
DOB: 23/04/1993

Height: 1.85m

Weight: 94kg

Position: Wing/full-back

Honours: Ireland under-20

[funnyExiledScot]

This only makes sense if he's going to play 15 (and Kinghorn is being slated to move to 10 next season).

There is absolutely no sense in us signing an NSQ winger, particularly a winger I see as no great improvement on Brown, Helu, Fife and Hoyland. There's Jamie Farndale to consider as well.

Very odd signing.

[Eejit]

Don't see the relevance of him being NSQ as there seems little chance of an Edinburgh winger getting Scotland caps any time soon anyway, save the Sevens team or several injuries. For better or worse, Hoyland looks pretty far back in BVC's plans for the moment.

Scholes has looked a right good player when he's played and Ulster fans seem genuinely gutted about it so overall it seems a good piece of business.

[EWT Spoons]

This only makes sense if he's going to play 15 (and Kinghorn is being slated to move to 10 next season).

There is absolutely no sense in us signing an NSQ winger, particularly a winger I see as no great improvement on Brown, Helu, Fife and Hoyland. There's Jamie Farndale to consider as well.

Very odd signing.

Yeah, got to agree the only way this makes sense is if it's FB he's being tipped to play and Weir and Kinghorn are rotating (or rotating as much as solly does) at 10. Or if he and Kinghorn are sharing the FB duties and cuthbert is a backup player.

But in all the positions we need filled, I wouldn't have said wing/fb are top priorities.

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