US presidential elections

by spencerclarke Tue 02 Feb 2016, 7:41 am

First topic message reminder :

Morning all,

So after the win in Iowa for Ted Cruz last night where do we see this going?

I'm thinking Clinton v Rubio. Lots of twists and turns still to come though.

by kingraf Mon 07 Mar 2016, 8:42 am

They're already our overlords. They take our gold and platinum and in return we get an unlimited supply of useless plastic goods

by TopHat24/7 Mon 07 Mar 2016, 10:44 am

kingraf wrote:I for one hope Trump will win. The Obama years nearly destroyed the emerging markets and a continuation of that would not have been good.

What's the craic with Obama and emerging markets, Kingy?

And the expected difference under Trump?

by kingraf Mon 07 Mar 2016, 11:16 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
kingraf wrote:I for one hope Trump will win. The Obama years nearly destroyed the emerging markets and a continuation of that would not have been good.

What's the craic with Obama and emerging markets, Kingy?

And the expected difference under Trump?

Creative wording. Obama hasn't gone out of his way to destroy the markets but the combo of the USA performing better than expected and China finally slowing down has seen a decrease in FDI into emerging markets which has seen a slowdown in growth, which in turn sees a decrease in FDI which in turn sees a decrease in growth.
At the same time more FDI went into the USA in 2014 than any other year. The Obama years, especially 2012-2016 have been rough.

If nothing else surely Trump will not generate the same FDI?

*FDI foreign direct investment

by TopHat24/7 Mon 07 Mar 2016, 12:23 pm

Ah ok, that makes sense, and don't worry, I know what FDI is Wink

Not that I think any of that is really to do with Obama (which I think you're acknowledging).

Tbh, my cynical view is that the BRICS countries were always 'over-priced' (thinking of it like share pricing) and carried on a wave of euphoria without the fundamentals to back it up. So their struggles are much of their own making. China, for example, was long built on a sugar pedestal of giant & growing population. Brazil is now failing partly because US fracking & Chinese slow down have killed the major export demand, Russia is fooked because of its imperialistic nutjob leader annexing sovereign states resulting in easily avoidable sanctions combined with rampant corruption. In SA the Rand has plummeted, not 100% sure on the why's of that, India perhaps looks the best bet of the rest right now.

FDI into the US, in terms of diverging capital from BRICS (SA in particular) will be all about the environment Trump provides to business. You may be right, Trump may be so jingoistic, inward looking and foreigner hating that he actively looks to discourage foreign ownership & investment into the States.

But that would be economic suicide. Trump isn't ACTUALLY stupid. Just a bell-end currently appealing to people who ARE stupid.

by kingraf Mon 07 Mar 2016, 12:51 pm

the Rand tanked because we bet on China and then proceeded to burn bridges at an alarming rate. We can't get back to a reasonable level because the dumbass president can't go a month without getting himself into a tangle. then he fired the finance minister on the middle of a drought and Poopie really hit the fan. Stupid policy making hasnt helped either. When the fuel price sunk the government immediately hiked the fuel levy to the point where the fuel cost basically the same again and thus the small silver of light which was the middle class having a bit of discretionary income was quite quickly closed. Which led to the inexplicable (NOT) situation where the consumer bought less which led to decreased confidence. Which leads to weaker economies. This obviously isnt the sole reason, but it gives you an idea. Downturn in resources also hasnt helped. Neither is the fact that we dont make as much as we should from resources given the fact that we give the Chinese everything raw, and in return get useless plastic goods.

I am digressing. Certainly if being the president of the USA was enough for people to trust George Bush, AKA Mr. "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." AKA MR. "And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." AKA Mr. "I've abandoned free market principles to save the free market system." with their piggy banks, then I'm sure Donald can spin a fatty, but it will be interesting because he has made some incredibly inciteful mistakes, and you'd think history warns against just believing it was an election ploy when a egomaniac promises to do egomaniac things

by TopHat24/7 Mon 07 Mar 2016, 1:41 pm

Interesting insight (para 1), thanks, never really seem to get much info on SA here.

Other than what a massive bell the Zuma is and how/why he seems to keep getting away with it.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 09 Mar 2016, 1:43 pm

Appropriate for the Donald I think:

Spoiler:

by TopHat24/7 Wed 09 Mar 2016, 3:01 pm

Interesting article posted on Facebook the other day of a friend of mine in Michigan:

https://medium.com/@kimballmortensen/10-reasons-why-conservatives-should-start-supporting-bernie-sanders-immediately-7eb700302a2a#.3trrom6g0

She's maybe a more traditional GOP voter but hates Trump. Apparently the article talks about why classical Republicans should be looking at Bernie.

Interesting that a day or so later Bernie took the Dem nom for Michigan (and Trump the Rep).

by **Pr4wn** Wed 09 Mar 2016, 3:09 pm

Indeed, polls have Bernie beating Trump by a significantly wider margin than Hillary.

by TopHat24/7 Fri 11 Mar 2016, 12:05 pm

Saw something interesting the other day, on the subject of how 'successful' Trump has been:

Bloomberg puts Trump's current net worth at $2.9bn. If Trump had just put his father's money in a mutual fund that tracked the S&P 500 and spent his career finger painting........he'd have $8bn....

by kingraf Fri 11 Mar 2016, 12:33 pm

by dyrewolfe Fri 11 Mar 2016, 1:30 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Saw something interesting the other day, on the subject of how 'successful' Trump has been:

Bloomberg puts Trump's current net worth at $2.9bn. If Trump had just put his father's money in a mutual fund that tracked the S&P 500 and spent his career finger painting........he'd have $8bn....

Who knows, maybe he might have discovered a hidden talent and be putting on exhibitions at all the major galleries by now.

Given some of the stuff that passes for modern art, I can just imagine elitist arty types getting all moist over his daubings. Erm

navyblueshorts wrote:Appropriate for the Donald I think:

Spoiler:

Awesome...just awesome... notworthy

by Duty281 Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:45 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-35791008

The political left using violence and intimidation? Again? laughing

They know Trump will triumph, this is all they have left.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 10:17 am

Interesting how people read stories. To me that did not come across as violence coming from the protestors

by kingraf Sat 12 Mar 2016, 10:56 am

Not allowing that rally to continue was the smartest thing Trump coulda done. Lots of stories of minorities or people in democrat shirts being kicked out of his Rallies. Lord knows what would have happened if his supporters got themselves into a frenzy

by Mad for Chelsea Sat 12 Mar 2016, 11:08 am

yeah 'coz Trump's supporters haven't resorted to "violence and intimidation" when they've been beating up, punching, throwing protesters out of previous rallies, all with Trump's approval. Trump is OK with denying the protesters their freedom of speech rights though. But when they're a few too many of them to 'silence', well, things get a bit ugly.

You reap what you sow. Create an atmosphere of racism, intolerance, violence and hatred, an 'us against them' mentality based on a discourse of divisiveness, then you shouldn't be surprised when the 'them' fight back.

Thing is, the Republican party is itself reaping what it sowed with Trump. For many years now they've been happy to let the nasty extreme of their party fester with racism and bigotry, because it suited them, it guaranteed them those votes. So they've done nothing to adress it, maybe even encouraged it. Now Trump is just tapping into that, as well as the anti-establishment feeling (never mind that he IS the establishment really, idiots are easily misled after all), and they're running scared of the monster they've, at best, passively allowed to form, and at worst actively helped create. The fact that Trump's stances make Cruz or Rubio look moderate says it all really...

by Dave. Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:13 pm

All on Ohio and Florida. If Trump loses both it goes to a brokered convention. If he wins both i think Trump has it.

Seemingly the anti Trump alliance has been formed; I think Kasich wins Ohio and Rubio is closing in Florida (though it may be too late). I don't think the GOPe will back Cruz yet. And yes, the GOP created this environment, Trump is Frankenstein's monster.

And not shocked at the violence either, Trump is a latter day George Wallace, perhaps not racist himself but pandering and endearing to racists. (Look at George Wallace's electoral history to see what I mean, his first run for Governor of Alabama, was intergrationist).

by **navyblueshorts** Sun 13 Mar 2016, 11:16 am

Duty281 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-35791008

The political left using violence and intimidation? Again?

They know Trump will triumph, this is all they have left.

Yeah, right. And this is the sort of person they're protesting against:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-35793103

by **navyblueshorts** Sun 13 Mar 2016, 11:18 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yeah 'coz Trump's supporters haven't resorted to "violence and intimidation" when they've been beating up, punching, throwing protesters out of previous rallies, all with Trump's approval. Trump is OK with denying the protesters their freedom of speech rights though. But when they're a few too many of them to 'silence', well, things get a bit ugly.

You reap what you sow. Create an atmosphere of racism, intolerance, violence and hatred, an 'us against them' mentality based on a discourse of divisiveness, then you shouldn't be surprised when the 'them' fight back.

Thing is, the Republican party is itself reaping what it sowed with Trump. For many years now they've been happy to let the nasty extreme of their party fester with racism and bigotry, because it suited them, it guaranteed them those votes. So they've done nothing to adress it, maybe even encouraged it. Now Trump is just tapping into that, as well as the anti-establishment feeling (never mind that he IS the establishment really, idiots are easily misled after all), and they're running scared of the monster they've, at best, passively allowed to form, and at worst actively helped create. The fact that Trump's stances make Cruz or Rubio look moderate says it all really...

by **Pal Joey** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 7:36 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:yeah 'coz Trump's supporters haven't resorted to "violence and intimidation" when they've been beating up, punching, throwing protesters out of previous rallies, all with Trump's approval. Trump is OK with denying the protesters their freedom of speech rights though. But when they're a few too many of them to 'silence', well, things get a bit ugly.

You reap what you sow. Create an atmosphere of racism, intolerance, violence and hatred, an 'us against them' mentality based on a discourse of divisiveness, then you shouldn't be surprised when the 'them' fight back.

Thing is, the Republican party is itself reaping what it sowed with Trump. For many years now they've been happy to let the nasty extreme of their party fester with racism and bigotry, because it suited them, it guaranteed them those votes. So they've done nothing to adress it, maybe even encouraged it. Now Trump is just tapping into that, as well as the anti-establishment feeling (never mind that he IS the establishment really, idiots are easily misled after all), and they're running scared of the monster they've, at best, passively allowed to form, and at worst actively helped create. The fact that Trump's stances make Cruz or Rubio look moderate says it all really...

by TopHat24/7 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 10:14 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Interesting how people read stories. To me that did not come across as violence coming from the protestors

Basically, are you a complete fooking moron? If not, then you read the story the way you (and I and most others) did.

If you are, you read it the other way....

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 10:25 am

Wasn't meaning to come into this GOP ignorance...But...

People applauding a comment on a subject they don't know anything about...Par for the course on here..

Far be it for me to stick up for Republicans...........

McCain.....Romney.........Dole........Bush Sr.............Ford..........Reagan..........

If I concede Bush jr was extreme..............That means only 1 out of 7 of the last GOP candidates were extreme as you put it........

Hardly points to a party struggling with years of festering with bigotry and racism......Plenty of nutters like Bachman entered those races and quit early........

Trump wins with 35% in most cases anyway pointing to the fact that the majority don't want him and it's only because of the amount of candidates in the field he's getting through..

By the way most of Trump's victories have come in "open" primaries where Democrats and independents can vote.....(Do your homework)...Cruz has won more "GOP" only ones..

Most of the primaries left are closed now...

Hence he's losing Ohio to a moderate.......Sure he's winning Florida but Rubio's voting record is killing him in his home State and voters hate wasting a vote on a guy they think can't win...Rubio is ahead in early voting 2 to 1 apparently...........Which may get him over the line anyway.....Rubio does well with late voters that decide on the day..

As for Cruz he's done well in the South which is right wing and because he's close to Trump in delegates the GOP are reluctantly getting behind anyone they think can stop Trump...They don't think Cruz is ideal.....and Cruz is scared of a brokered convention anyway because he knows he won't get picked as the GOP won't pick an extreme candidate..

Trump is Trump.......People are captured by the name........If anybody had run with Arnold's policies and were called John Smith they wouldn't have won California....

America is in love with CELEBRITY.......and it needs to grow up I'll give you that ..

Now.......Barry Goldwater was an extremist who lost to LBJ and that was fifty years ago........Bush jr outstanding there haven't been any since..

Just think before you write..

Rant over and cheers.. thumbsup

by Duty281 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:19 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Interesting how people read stories. To me that did not come across as violence coming from the protestors

These protesters went in with the sole motivation of shutting down the rally - no doubt an effect of the awful 'safe space' culture that is bleeding through many universities, both here and in the States, where free expression of speech and ideas are being increasingly suppressed.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:24 pm

They protested, as is their right.

Any violence should be deplored but I note that one Trump supporter sucker punched a protestor and Trump has offered to pay his legal bills! That's right, Trump doesn't only condone the violence, he actively supports it! He's actively supporting someone that sucker-punched a protestor.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:29 pm

They disrupted a Trump rally peeing all over his FIRST AMENDMENT rights.....

Stick to the EU thread..

by Duty281 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:34 pm

Pr4wn wrote:They protested, as is their right.

Any violence should be deplored but I note that one Trump supporter sucker punched a protestor and Trump has offered to pay his legal bills! That's right, Trump doesn't only condone the violence, he actively supports it! He's actively supporting someone that sucker-punched a protestor.

Protest? Fine.

Trying to shut down rallies, suppressing free speech and debate? Wholly wrong.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:35 pm

They exercised their first amendment right and they certainly didn't stop Trump expressing his views.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:35 pm

Though I must admit, I've not read too much about it. Simply protesting is absolutely fine. Using violence is not. Ever.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:36 pm

Pr4wn wrote:They exercised their first amendment right and they certainly didn't stop Trump expressing his views.

Yes they did that is why they were chucked out of the hall......Why did the cops chuck them out ????......They can protest OUTSIDE not INSIDE !!!!

Dear oh dear......You have no clue..

by **Pr4wn** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:38 pm

Someone's cranky today.

They protested, made their point and were ejected. No problem with any of that.

It's the unprovoked assaults that I have a problem with.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:38 pm

Trump hates ethnic minorities. May as well say it. Other than his minimum wage house staff I guess.

Mexicans? All r@pists, let's build a wall to stop them. Black people? If you want to sucker punch them I'll pay your legal bills.

He literally is the blond Hitler.

by Duty281 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:39 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Someone's cranky today.

They protested, made their point and were ejected. No problem with any of that.

It's the unprovoked assaults that I have a problem with.

Their aim was to shut it down, not to protest.

“Everyone, get your tickets to this. We’re all going in!!!! ‪#‎SHUTITDOWN‬"

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:42 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Someone's cranky today.

They protested, made their point and were ejected. No problem with any of that.

It's the unprovoked assaults that I have a problem with.

They got chucked out because they were breaking the law !!!!.............They wouldn't have gone if they weren't chucked out!!

Do me a favor !!!!.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Someone's cranky today.

They protested, made their point and were ejected. No problem with any of that.

It's the unprovoked assaults that I have a problem with.

Their aim was to shut it down, not to protest.

“Everyone, get your tickets to this. We’re all going in!!!! ‪#‎SHUTITDOWN‬"

Yes, because an uncited made up quote is always the best way to evidence your argument.......

by **Pr4wn** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:49 pm

Nothing about the unprovoked assaults then? Nothing about Trump offering to pay the legal bills of some thug? You like boxing, don't you Truss? What's your view on someone sucker-punching a protestor, whether he was allowed to be there or not?

I got sucker-punched last year. Needed surgery on my face, now I've got two metal plates in there for the rest of my life. People that do that kind of thing are cowards and Trump is enabling and actively supporting it in an attempt to gain political capital.

by Duty281 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:51 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Someone's cranky today.

They protested, made their point and were ejected. No problem with any of that.

It's the unprovoked assaults that I have a problem with.

Their aim was to shut it down, not to protest.

“Everyone, get your tickets to this. We’re all going in!!!! ‪#‎SHUTITDOWN‬"

Yes, because an uncited made up quote is always the best way to evidence your argument.......

What are you blathering about now? It's the well-known quote from Ja'Mal Green who instigated the 'protest'. Stop advertising your embarrassing levels of ignorance.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-bernie-sanders-supporters-shut-down-donald-trump-rally-chicago

by Duty281 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:54 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Nothing about the unprovoked assaults then? Nothing about Trump offering to pay the legal bills of some thug? You like boxing, don't you Truss? What's your view on someone sucker-punching a protestor, whether he was allowed to be there or not?

I got sucker-punched last year. Needed surgery on my face, now I've got two metal plates in there for the rest of my life. People that do that kind of thing are cowards and Trump is enabling and actively supporting it in an attempt to gain political capital.

A deplorable action.

And I wonder how much worse it would have been had the protesters rushed the stage, as this was their apparent intention.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:57 pm

Hitler transformed transport infrastructure (Autobahns)... built more hospitals and got people working...

If any candidate shared his "better" qualities they wouldn't go far wrong..

by TopHat24/7 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:57 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Someone's cranky today.

They protested, made their point and were ejected. No problem with any of that.

It's the unprovoked assaults that I have a problem with.

Their aim was to shut it down, not to protest.

“Everyone, get your tickets to this. We’re all going in!!!! ‪#‎SHUTITDOWN‬"

Yes, because an uncited made up quote is always the best way to evidence your argument.......

What are you blathering about now? It's the well-known quote from Ja'Mal Green who instigated the 'protest'. Stop advertising your embarrassing levels of ignorance.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-bernie-sanders-supporters-shut-down-donald-trump-rally-chicago

Fair play. Both you and he.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:58 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Someone's cranky today.

They protested, made their point and were ejected. No problem with any of that.

It's the unprovoked assaults that I have a problem with.

Their aim was to shut it down, not to protest.

“Everyone, get your tickets to this. We’re all going in!!!! ‪#‎SHUTITDOWN‬"

Yes, because an uncited made up quote is always the best way to evidence your argument.......

What are you blathering about now? It's the well-known quote from Ja'Mal Green who instigated the 'protest'. Stop advertising your embarrassing levels of ignorance.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-bernie-sanders-supporters-shut-down-donald-trump-rally-chicago

Don't feed the troll..

by **superflyweight** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:58 pm

Isn't the whole point of the First Amendment to protect the people from the Government?

It gives citizens the right to protest and to express their beliefs, but I don't think it was intended to stop people trying to shout down someone expressing views they disagree with.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 3:58 pm

PS: am not allowed to comment, but I think we've hit a new low...... (or at least one person has) #YayHitler

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:01 pm

superflyweight wrote:Isn't the whole point of the First Amendment to protect the people from the Government?

It gives citizens the right to protest and to express their beliefs, but I don't think it was intended to stop people trying to shout down someone expressing views they disagree with.

Impeding free speech and freedom of religion..............I'm happy for protests outside the rally.............But not for Trump to be deliberately impeded in a room or hall he's booked and paid for !!!!

by **superflyweight** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:07 pm

Impeded by whom though?

I thought the whole point of the First Amendment was that I have a right to make my point and you have a right to protest against that point. Both of us would be exercising our first amendment rights and provided that our respective actions are within the boundaries of the law, we are both perfectly entitled to continue with our argument.

What I thought the First Amendment provided was that so long as we're not otherwise breaking the law, the government can't take away those rights.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:11 pm

If KKK dragons book & pay for a field to burn crosses, are people not allowed to turn up an (non-violently) protest that either??

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:11 pm

superflyweight wrote:Impeded by whom though?

I thought the whole point of the First Amendment was that I have a right to make my point and you have a right to protest against that point. Both of us would be exercising our first amendment rights and provided that our respective actions are within the boundaries of the law, we are both perfectly entitled to continue with our argument.

What I thought the First Amendment provided was that so long as we're not otherwise breaking the law, the government can't take away those rights.

Their actions weren't in the boundaries of the law.....Trump rally in front of supporters in a hall Trump had paid for and they were shouting him down..

by **superflyweight** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:15 pm

But that's not illegal - unless you apply the breach of the peace or incitement to violence laws fairly liberally.

By the way, I tend to agree with you in principle T-Bone - let him speak - he's an idiot and the more people hear him being an idiot the better. Otherwise, all the protestors are doing is allowing him to play the victim and galvanising his support.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:16 pm

Still nothing about the violence and the encouragement of said violence.

Classic.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:16 pm

I didn't quote anybody with the Hitler comment...Wonder how Toppy saw that one !! Cool

But it's okay.....Freedom of speech..

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 Mar 2016, 4:21 pm

superflyweight wrote:But that's not illegal - unless you apply the breach of the peace or incitement to violence laws fairly liberally.

Ever the lawyer aren't we..... Wink

When are you going to get a respectable job.... thumbsup

Pr4wn you're changing the subject..........

But yes If I went to watch a movie with my Wife and some idiot kept dancing about screaming obscenities in front of me I'd get the urge to give him a slap......Watched a Trump rally Saturday night and he told the cops to be gentle with them..

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