Gwent Dragons 2015/16 thread

[Luckless Pedestrian]

First topic message reminder :

With Warburton, I can only conclude that they like him as captain because of how he deals with referees. He's very respectful towards them.

[GavinDragon]

I can't say I have seen a great deal of him to refute that claim.

But it is underwhelming because it is another Blues' cast off.

[VinceWLB]

I have actually been impressed by Phil Price's scrummaging which is much improved this season. Only in one or two games can I remember him being mullered

So a good outing for Phil Price is not being mullered at the scrum! That's a good start i guess but you should be aiming for higher quality, unless you want to still be involved in a 3 teams scrap with the Italians for worst team in the league.

Will never forget a few years back, the biggest cheer of the night at RP was when the scrum didn't go backward at a scrum, and i'm pretty sure Phil Price was involved!

[GavinDragon]

No, my point is that his scrummaging, like our set piece in general, is much improved. My mullered comment was toungue in cheek as even the great props have their backsides handed to them from time to time - Jenkins vs England with a French ref ring any bells?

[VinceWLB]

Agreed, i also said earlier this season Phil Price scrummaging had improved even if it can still look suspect at time. Rodney Ah You should be in the Irish setup instead of White and Buckley is the best scrummaging loosehead in Ireland imo, so i think it will be a tough day at the office for your lads. Anyway, best of luck tonight.

[GavinDragon]

Ta very much butty!

[RiscaGame]

Just hope it ain't about -200 degrees on the terrace, as I'm man flu'd right up.

Was gonna have a pint tonight too, but can't see the Usk Water/Carling helping

[RubyGuby]

Enjoy the game Risca - My gran used to live in Risca - Spent many a summer there as a kid

[RiscaGame]

Lovely place mind

Not too bad a half. Their tries pretty soft, particularly the second. Our second was very nice. Ben White showing up pretty well. Scrum coping.

[RubyGuby]

21-14 I'm in Cornwall tuning in to the mighty Dragons keep me updated

[RubyGuby]

Shxt 2 trys 21-26

[VinceWLB]

FT 21-26

Maybe this has very little to do with it but looked like it all went to pot once the replacement props came on.

[thebandwagonsociety]

4 tries to Connacht and the bonus point. Could only listen to it through BBC website. Sounded like a lively game. Commentator couldn't decide if Connacht were just very clinical in their attack or if Dragons were poor in their defense. (age old question I suppose).

Dragons missed big opportunity on moving up the table, have to be gutted.

[RubyGuby]

That's also a big blow for the Ospreys in particular and possibly Scarlets. Connacht are cashing in during the 6 Nations

[wayne]

That's also a big blow for the  Ospreys in particular and possibly Scarlets. Connacht are cashing in during the 6 Nations

Yes you are so right Ruby as far as the Os are concerned

[RubyGuby]

That's also a big blow for the  Ospreys in particular and possibly Scarlets. Connacht are cashing in during the 6 Nations

Yes you are so right Ruby as far as the Os are concerned

[RiscaGame]

Second half was a no show. First forty we kept the ball in hand more and did ok. Second half, back to aimless kicking or last ten just pass the ball out to Ashton's wing without committing defenders and then even better forwards carrying from a standing start.

It really fell apart when we took both our props off though (Garrett and Knight for Price and Harris). Subs, first scrum goes pen them and they score off the driving lineout for 21-21. I can't wait for one of the chuckle brothers' post match comments, to see why we reverted to kick, second half and why the unnecessary changes.

On the upside, the Elvis tribute act was brilliant.

Oh and considering Elliott Dee must've had a lot on his mind (death of his mother), he gave a top performance.

[Stone Motif]

Second half was a no show. First forty we kept the ball in hand more and did ok. Second half, back to aimless kicking or last ten just pass the ball out to Ashton's wing without committing defenders and then even better forwards carrying from a standing start.

It really fell apart when we took both our props off though (Garrett and Knight for Price and Harris). Subs, first scrum goes pen them and they score off the driving lineout for 21-21. I can't wait for one of the chuckle brothers' post match comments, to see why we reverted to kick, second half and why the unnecessary changes.

On the upside, the Elvis tribute act was brilliant.

Oh and considering Elliott Dee must've had a lot on his mind (death of his mother), he gave a top performance.

Fine young player, unbelievable attitude and commitment in the circumstances.

[RubyGuby]

Second half was a no show. First forty we kept the ball in hand more and did ok. Second half, back to aimless kicking or last ten just pass the ball out to Ashton's wing without committing defenders and then even better forwards carrying from a standing start.

It really fell apart when we took both our props off though (Garrett and Knight for Price and Harris). Subs, first scrum goes pen them and they score off the driving lineout for 21-21. I can't wait for one of the chuckle brothers' post match comments, to see why we reverted to kick, second half and why the unnecessary changes.

On the upside, the Elvis tribute act was brilliant.

Oh and considering Elliott Dee must've had a lot on his mind (death of his mother), he gave a top performance.

[GavinDragon]

Second half was a no show. First forty we kept the ball in hand more and did ok. Second half, back to aimless kicking or last ten just pass the ball out to Ashton's wing without committing defenders and then even better forwards carrying from a standing start.

It really fell apart when we took both our props off though (Garrett and Knight for Price and Harris). Subs, first scrum goes pen them and they score off the driving lineout for 21-21. I can't wait for one of the chuckle brothers' post match comments, to see why we reverted to kick, second half and why the unnecessary changes.

On the upside, the Elvis tribute act was brilliant.

Oh and considering Elliott Dee must've had a lot on his mind (death of his mother), he gave a top performance.

Pretty much spot on Risca, first half we were competitive and attacked well; the game was actually a good spectacle at that point.

I actually don't think we are fit enough. Yes the replacement props gave away the penalties which lead to their tries, but our kicking was due to the fact we were blowing out of our arses and having to work hard and commit numbers just to retain the ball, so when we did retain it we didn't have enough players on their feet in decent positions to attack. Also, from 60 minutes on we started losing our shape in defence and basic errors crept in.

Yes I am sure Connacht have bigger budget than us and they do have some good players now in Aki and Ah you etc. But fitness is the one thing that any coach can instill in a professional team and it should not be a differentiator between teams at this level. Sadly, from what I hear, we have a coach who is still delivering from a 90's playbook and tbh it shows!

Dee Hewitt and Warren were excellent again (How long until the first two are prised away from us?) and Phil Price won 3 penalties at the scrum Vince ;-)

[PhilBB]

I was rather hoping that the NGD wouldn't get a bonus point. That's two sneaked in two weeks.

[munkian]

I was rather hoping that the NGD wouldn't get a bonus point. That's two sneaked in two weeks.

Why 'sneaked' ?

Its a bit sad that a club so rich in history as Cardiff RFC set the standards to 'as long as we beat the Dragons'

[PhilBB]

I was rather hoping that the NGD wouldn't get a bonus point. That's two sneaked in two weeks.

Why 'sneaked' ?

Its a bit sad that a club so rich in history as Cardiff RFC set the standards to 'as long as we beat the Dragons'

I'm not sure how you've extrapolated wanting the NGD to lose to be 'as long as we beat the Dragons'. As you'll know, the 140 years of history of Cardiff RFC is full of beating Newport and seeing Newport as our derby rivals. Seeing Newport lose is always good, therefore, but that is tempered by the sneaking of a bonus point.

I'd have preferred two 4-0 results.

[GavinDragon]

How has Cardiff RFC's form vs Newport been in recent years? Have to admit I don't follow their results, prefer to focus on the Blues vs Dragons results.

[PhilBB]

How has Cardiff RFC's form vs Newport been in recent years? Have to admit I don't follow their results, prefer to focus on the Blues vs Dragons results.  

Well, you know who you pay your money to.....

[munkian]

I was rather hoping that the NGD wouldn't get a bonus point. That's two sneaked in two weeks.

Why 'sneaked' ?

Its a bit sad that a club so rich in history as Cardiff RFC set the standards to 'as long as we beat the Dragons'

I'm not sure how you've extrapolated wanting the NGD to lose to be 'as long as we beat the Dragons'. As you'll know, the 140 years of history of Cardiff RFC is full of beating Newport and seeing Newport as our derby rivals. Seeing Newport lose is always good, therefore, but that is tempered by the sneaking of a bonus point.

I'd have preferred two 4-0 results.

And I'm not sure how the LBP were 'sneaked' but there we go. Troll on.

[PhilBB]

And I'm not sure how the LBP were 'sneaked' but there we go. Troll on.

Not in terms of the play, but in terms of my expectation. Shove your troll comment where it belongs, sunshine.

[munkian]

Sunshine

PhillBB is so tough he'd eat the peanuts out of a dead man's Poopie

[GavinDragon]

How has Cardiff RFC's form vs Newport been in recent years? Have to admit I don't follow their results, prefer to focus on the Blues vs Dragons results.  

Well, you know who you pay your money to.....

Yes, and I am grateful for them keeping pro rugby in Gwent going......just about!

[GavinDragon]

In fairness to Phil, he is no troll, just no diplomat either.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I was rather hoping that the NGD wouldn't get a bonus point. That's two sneaked in two weeks.

We're not going to climb the table with losing bonus points.

[GavinDragon]

I just put this on draggedup and cba to reword it. Thoughts on who we could bring in in 2017 when Lyn's contract runs out?

The fact of the matter is, Lyn Jones has had funds invested into this squad not seen since, arguably, the likes of Tom Willis and Haoni Macdonald arrived, if not even our inaugural season.

He hasn't got the most out of the players at his disposal, the fitness, or lack of, is shocking and rumours of players wanting to leave the region reflect on him as a coach even if he is not directly causing them to want to leave (as has also been rumoured).

Now, I get that we are cash poor and can't afford top signings. I also get that most welsh players wouldnt want to come to us because of how we are viewed. But a good coach can change that, build from within, make it an enjoyable environment to be in where players are developed and make them happy they will stay. Rob Baxter at Exeter, Pat Lam at Connacht, Gregor Townsend at Glasgow, Dean Richards at Newcastle and Dean Ryan at Worcester. Heck even look at Doncaster in the English championship who are pushing Bristol all the way on a much smaller budget.

What this region needs is a coach/manager who has experience of getting the most out of a, comparibly, limited group of players and is willing to invest over the long term in changing the culture and image of the region. Others have shown how it can be done - just needs the right man at the helm.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I actually don't think we are fit enough. Yes the replacement props gave away the penalties which lead to their tries, but our kicking was due to the fact we were blowing out of our arses and having to work hard and commit numbers just to retain the ball, so when we did retain it we didn't have enough players on their feet in decent positions to attack. Also, from 60 minutes on we started losing our shape in defence and basic errors crept in.

Makes sense. That's three matches now than we've lost from winning positions, some of those leads substantial.

Yes I am sure Connacht have  bigger budget than us and they do have some good players now in Aki and Ah you etc. But fitness is the one thing that any coach can instill in a professional team and it should not be a differentiator  between teams at this level. Sadly, from what I hear, we have a coach who is still delivering from a 90's playbook and tbh it shows!

For me, a new coaching team is the most important, and most urgent, change we need to make. In terms of personnel, we're not far off, but Pat Lam has Connacht playing good rugby and every player knows what he's doing and has bought into what he's trying to do.

[PhilBB]

In fairness, Lam and Townsend had serious (relative) money to spend. The NGD would never attract a Bundee and Townsend's squad has over 30 internationals.

As for the NGD, they need a serious makeover from the board room downwards. Hazell and Godfrey are the two biggest problems. And I mention that as any potential coach would need to work with them.

If I were a potential coach and the NGD were interested in me, the first person I'd call would be Paul Turner. And then that would be the end of that.

Therefore, for me, the NGD can only attract a young coach who is willing to take the gamble or a coach who has been out of work for a long while. Maybe now is the time for the NGD to look at coaches like Greg Woods.

[GavinDragon]

I actually don't think we are fit enough. Yes the replacement props gave away the penalties which lead to their tries, but our kicking was due to the fact we were blowing out of our arses and having to work hard and commit numbers just to retain the ball, so when we did retain it we didn't have enough players on their feet in decent positions to attack. Also, from 60 minutes on we started losing our shape in defence and basic errors crept in.

Makes sense. That's three matches now than we've lost from winning positions, some of those leads substantial.

Yes I am sure Connacht have  bigger budget than us and they do have some good players now in Aki and Ah you etc. But fitness is the one thing that any coach can instill in a professional team and it should not be a differentiator  between teams at this level. Sadly, from what I hear, we have a coach who is still delivering from a 90's playbook and tbh it shows!

For me, a new coaching team is the most important, and most urgent, change we need to make. In terms of personnel, we're not far off, but Pat Lam has Connacht playing good rugby and every player knows what he's doing and has bought into what he's trying to do.

What I find frustrating is that our previous head coach has gone to Bath and has had their backline on fire (granted more so last season than this). I can't help but think what if he had had the same pack of forwards as Lyn has what he could have done with the team?

[GavinDragon]

In fairness, Lam and Townsend had serious (relative) money to spend. The NGD would never attract a Bundee and Townsend's squad has over 30 internationals.

As for the NGD, they need a serious makeover from the board room downwards. Hazell and Godfrey are the two biggest problems. And I mention that as any potential coach would need to work with them.

If I were a potential coach and the NGD were interested in me, the first person I'd call would be Paul Turner. And then that would be the end of that.

Therefore, for me, the NGD can only attract a young coach who is willing to take the gamble or a coach who has been out of work for a long while. Maybe now is the time for the NGD to look at coaches like Greg Woods.

Know any wealthy-ish businessmen willing to invest Phil?

[PhilBB]

Know any wealthy-ish businessmen willing to invest Phil?

In an organisation set up like that? No.

[geoff999rugby]

That's also a big blow for the  Ospreys in particular and possibly Scarlets. Connacht are cashing in during the 6 Nations

Connacht have been cashing in all season - merely maintaining form

Glasgow, Ospreys and, if they lose on Sunday, Munster are all in real danger of not get a European Championship spot.
Lot will depend on how Scarlets and Edinburgh go.
I would very very surprise if the other 3 Irish provinces don't make it.
If Munster win on Sunday I reckon all 4 Irish provinces will qualify

[GavinDragon]

Know any wealthy-ish businessmen willing to invest Phil?

In an organisation set up like that? No.

What specifically about the set up puts off potential investors?

[RiscaGame]

With regards to Greg Woods, I think I'd rather go in that direction to be honest. Newport are/were playing some pretty good stuff too. In fact I suspect all four of our Premiership clubs are doing a bit more than kick and rush.

We aren't going to attract a "bigger name" than the Lyp and I agree that Hazell and (according to Turner) especially Godfrey are a huge part of the rot down RP

[GavinDragon]

Greg Woods and Jason Strange?

[mikey_dragon]

There has to be a kiwi coach available somewhere. Lam at Connacht isn't a world beater but he was exactly what was required, I believe a coach with a similar philosophy would get more out of our players. Anscombe was also another kiwi to leave a good mark on an Irish team.

[mikey_dragon]

Greg Woods and Jason Strange?

Was he Ebbw coach when they were promoted?

[PhilBB]

Know any wealthy-ish businessmen willing to invest Phil?

In an organisation set up like that? No.

What specifically about the set up puts off potential investors?

The entire ownership structure. It's run by NRFC, and that's where the cash goes, but the ownership is 50/50 with the WRU.

If you wanted to spend your money as you wanted to then you'd need control. 50/50 doesn't give you that.

The NGD should be up for sale.

[GavinDragon]

Know any wealthy-ish businessmen willing to invest Phil?

In an organisation set up like that? No.

What specifically about the set up puts off potential investors?

The entire ownership structure. It's run by NRFC, and that's where the cash goes, but the ownership is 50/50 with the WRU.

If you wanted to spend your money as you wanted to then you'd need control. 50/50 doesn't give you that.

The NGD should be up for sale.

The WRU don't own 50% of NRFC though do they? What do they actually own 50% of?

[RubyGuby]

It was a mistake having the Dragons as a region to begin with no matter who pulls the strings -  the interest, population and history is just not there. The Region should have been a merger with the Capital City and we should have had a Valley Commandos region encompassing great sides with large fan bases from Neath and Pontypridd - Politics prevailed and we are left with the Dragons who do their best and give absolute 100% in front of poor crowds - Just bad planning

[PhilBB]

The WRU don't own 50% of NRFC though do they? What do they actually own 50% of?

NGD

[GavinDragon]

But in legal terms what are they? Are they even a business? And if they are, why do the WRU allow all the funds to flow in and out of NRFC accounts?

[RiscaGame]

Interesting reading Lyp's comments though. Praising Elliott Dee (fair) and talking up how he should be involved in the Welsh squad now (whilst conveniently forgetting how he picks his chosen one TRT constantly). Then he also bemoans the fact we were missing Hallam Amos and Carl Meyer last night, yet forgets that Nick Scott was his signing, as was fellow chuckle brother's son GR Jones.

Plus this says it all and he said it twice mun.

"We got the most out of our players."

I beg to differ. First half maybe.

[GavinDragon]

First half was fine, quite an entertaining game actually and we played with plenty of zip. Ran out of steam in second half. But there are too many rumours of discontented players, players leaving or wanting to leave for him to remain in charge. Now it is unlikely that we will pay him off, but I hope pinky is scouring the UK for his replacement.

[Guest]

It was a mistake having the Dragons as a region to begin with no matter who pulls the strings -  the interest, population and history is just not there. The Region should have been a merger with the Capital City and we should have had a Valley Commandos region encompassing great sides with large fan bases from Neath and Pontypridd - Politics prevailed and we are left with the Dragons who do their best and give absolute 100% in front of poor crowds - Just bad planning

Not sure I agree with a couple of points.

History? As much or as little as the Ospreys if you mean regional rugby. If you're talking about pre-regional, then Ebbw Vale and Newport RFCs have as much as Neath and Swansea.

Population: Newport is the 3rd most populous town/city, double the size of the 4th place town (Wrexham). The population of Gwent is over 560,000. That's 1/6th of the population of the whole country! It also used to be the case that Gwent was the most densely populated in terms of rugby clubs, with more clubs per head than anywhere else in Wales. Not sure if it's still true.

Llanelli: now there's somewhere that's sparsely populated!!!

Edit:
'Interest' - we're getting similar attendances to The Blues in all fairness. Just a few hundred in it for the same opponents. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But not a great deal of difference.

Scrap us due to results or lack of suitable investors, sure. But it would be folly to do away with the dragons based on population.

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