Gwent Dragons 2015/16 thread

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 10 Feb 2016, 2:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

With Warburton, I can only conclude that they like him as captain because of how he deals with referees. He's very respectful towards them.

by Guest Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:00 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Fantastic pass by Tovey to put his Edinburgh team mate in at the corner. Then he dinks the convo from the touchline, no probs.

So year after year of inconsistency and fairly average play, at both dragons and blues, but 2 games for Edinburgh and he's Dan Carter? I'm not buying it.

So many inaccuracies in this drivel that I don't know where to begin.

Which bits were inaccurate?

Was he consistent?
Was he above average (a difficult one to measure, admittedly)?
Was he any of the above for either Dragons or Blues?
Is 2 games at Edinburgh enough to judge whether he's improved massively since leaving us or whether we just couldn't get the best out of him?

So which bits were inaccurate?

by VinceWLB Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:16 am

Always rated Jason Tovey and he has transformed the Edinburgh's back line almost all by himself with his great precision. This also allows to play Burleigh in his preferred 12 position.

I hope Edinburgh will sign him permanently.

by Guest Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:00 am

VinceWLB wrote:Always rated Jason Tovey and he has transformed the Edinburgh's back line almost all by himself with his great precision. This also allows to play Burleigh in his preferred 12 position.

I hope Edinburgh will sign him permanently.

Glad he's off to a good start. I notice some of the Edinburgh fans calling him an idiot already (last nights match thread)!

by **RiscaGame** Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:26 am

Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Fantastic pass by Tovey to put his Edinburgh team mate in at the corner. Then he dinks the convo from the touchline, no probs.

So year after year of inconsistency and fairly average play, at both dragons and blues, but 2 games for Edinburgh and he's Dan Carter? I'm not buying it.

So many inaccuracies in this drivel that I don't know where to begin.

Which bits were inaccurate?

Was he consistent?
Was he above average (a difficult one to measure, admittedly)?
Was he any of the above for either Dragons or Blues?
Is 2 games at Edinburgh enough to judge whether he's improved massively since leaving us or whether we just couldn't get the best out of him?

So which bits were inaccurate?

How he did for the Blouse should be irrelevant as a Drags fan. I do see Mikey's point of having a go for your post. Average player? Wow. Just because Lyp or Kingsley haven't talked him up for Wales like mini Kingsley, doesn't mean he's average mind. Just because Dorian allegedly attacks the gain line more (I think he runs up blind alleys too much).

I think he was our best ten. But the shameless nepotism stopped him carrying on. Would he be international class? No (but neither will Dorian ever be despite what daddy says). But he was a solid club/regional player for us and I find this average talk astounding considering what else we have on our books.

by **RiscaGame** Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:32 am

Griff wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Always rated Jason Tovey and he has transformed the Edinburgh's back line almost all by himself with his great precision. This also allows to play Burleigh in his preferred 12 position.

I hope Edinburgh will sign him permanently.

Glad he's off to a good start. I notice some of the Edinburgh fans calling him an idiot already (last nights match thread)!

Some or one? Sounds a bit Owenins. Some say blah blah blah.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:32 am

I would say he was definitely our best option at 10 by some distance but what was annoying was his inconsistency.

He went to the Blues but didn't get on with Phil Davies (goes back to U20s level by all accounts) and that knocked him back a fair bit but I would be much happier if he was still with us rather than up with Edinburgh.

by mikey_dragon Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:47 am

Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Fantastic pass by Tovey to put his Edinburgh team mate in at the corner. Then he dinks the convo from the touchline, no probs.

So year after year of inconsistency and fairly average play, at both dragons and blues, but 2 games for Edinburgh and he's Dan Carter? I'm not buying it.

So many inaccuracies in this drivel that I don't know where to begin.

Which bits were inaccurate?

Was he consistent?
Was he above average (a difficult one to measure, admittedly)?
Was he any of the above for either Dragons or Blues?
Is 2 games at Edinburgh enough to judge whether he's improved massively since leaving us or whether we just couldn't get the best out of him?

So which bits were inaccurate?

Yes. Not throughout his career, nor was he inconsistent throughout his career. You might want to look at the team collectively here, rather than single out Tovey.
Yes certainly above average. A good club player, he was called up to train with the Wales squad. He was certainly better than Priestland. Average is something I'd use to describe AOB.
For the Dragons yes. It was no surprise to see him have a stormer when our pack could actually get parity. I thought the comparison with the Blues was stupid. Didn't he play just two games for them before getting a long-term injury, under a coach worse than Lyp?
Not so sure if he's improved massively, but he's playing for a stronger team and getting MOTM, which to me says he was always good but often let down by poor players in front of him. Not sure why you originally made the reference to Dan Carter either, that was stupid.

by Guest Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:03 pm

Firstly I didn't make a comparison with the Blues. You just made that up.

Secondary - by saying he was not inconsistent you're saying he was consistent. I do not agree with this at all. In the same game he could do some lovely things and then have a few brain farts, all within a minutes of each other. That is the definition of inconsistent.

I agree he was our best 10. I never said he wasn't. I wasn't keen for us to get rid of him. What I disagree with is that he was good. I still maintain that if you put all of the Pro12 outside halves in a list and ranked them I'd say he'd come out middle or below middle, so that's why I think he's average to below average. All subjective of course. And just to reiterate - that doesn't mean I think Angus or Dorian are better. I did not say that.

On Priestland vs Tovey at club level. I'd take Priestland every time. A much better player at Pro12 level for me.

My reference to Carter was me reading between the lines of Cardifd Daves post. For a Cardiff fan to come on the dragons thread to discuss a player that's left, it was a clear attempt to wind up and suggest that we'd made a mistake letting him go. My point was that one good game and an inconsistent game for Edinburgh doesn't suddenly mean he's awesome. His inconsistency will be back.

by Guest Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:06 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Griff wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Always rated Jason Tovey and he has transformed the Edinburgh's back line almost all by himself with his great precision. This also allows to play Burleigh in his preferred 12 position.

I hope Edinburgh will sign him permanently.

Glad he's off to a good start. I notice some of the Edinburgh fans calling him an idiot already (last nights match thread)!

Some or one? Sounds a bit Owenins. Some say blah blah blah.

Owenins???

So what makes your opinion of Tovey correct and mine wrong? School me.

by Guest Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:12 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Fantastic pass by Tovey to put his Edinburgh team mate in at the corner. Then he dinks the convo from the touchline, no probs.

So year after year of inconsistency and fairly average play, at both dragons and blues, but 2 games for Edinburgh and he's Dan Carter? I'm not buying it.

So many inaccuracies in this drivel that I don't know where to begin.

Which bits were inaccurate?

Was he consistent?
Was he above average (a difficult one to measure, admittedly)?
Was he any of the above for either Dragons or Blues?
Is 2 games at Edinburgh enough to judge whether he's improved massively since leaving us or whether we just couldn't get the best out of him?

So which bits were inaccurate?

How he did for the Blouse should be irrelevant as a Drags fan. I do see Mikey's point of having a go for your post. Average player? Wow. Just because Lyp or Kingsley haven't talked him up for Wales like mini Kingsley, doesn't mean he's average mind. Just because Dorian allegedly attacks the gain line more (I think he runs up blind alleys too much).

I think he was our best ten. But the shameless nepotism stopped him carrying on. Would he be international class? No (but neither will Dorian ever be despite what daddy says). But he was a solid club/regional player for us and I find this average talk astounding considering what else we have on our books.

I think we have different opinions on what average means. Average for me means middle ground. Not bad but not awesome either. Average, the same as it means in maths. You've just called him a 'solid club/regional player' which is surely saying the same thing. Why didn't you say an 'exceptional' or 'outstanding' player if you think he's better than average? Solid means the same thing. Not excellent or spectacular just.... Solid.

by **RiscaGame** Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:46 pm

Solid means above average in my mind.

by **RiscaGame** Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:49 pm

Griff wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
Griff wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Always rated Jason Tovey and he has transformed the Edinburgh's back line almost all by himself with his great precision. This also allows to play Burleigh in his preferred 12 position.

I hope Edinburgh will sign him permanently.

Glad he's off to a good start. I notice some of the Edinburgh fans calling him an idiot already (last nights match thread)!

Some or one? Sounds a bit Owenins. Some say blah blah blah.

Owenins???

So what makes your opinion of Tovey correct and mine wrong? School me.

Opinions are fine. Owenins was a reference to the berk on Twitter who uses the "some say" to try to make it sound like a few are saying something. So all I did was question your some say, when one person said it. Don't be so touchy.

by Stone Motif Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:54 pm

To me, both Tovey and Brew hit a purple patch together a few years back where for whatever reason their interplay was well above the sum of its parts. It belied their individual ability and neither has been able to hit those heights again. Both a lot poorer players than their good years under Tommy suggested.

by Guest Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:56 pm

I try not to be touchy but when people like Mikey call you stupid for an opinion then it all gets a bit tiresome.

On the solid thing - have you not heard the saying 'solid but unspectacular' meaning just OK, average, neither good nor bad, etc?

If a commentator describes a player as solid it is rarely a compliment, nor a put down. It's just they get the job down without excelling.

by **RiscaGame** Sat 16 Apr 2016, 12:58 pm

But then I would lean towards good, not great instead of average. But like I say it's opinions.

by mikey_dragon Sat 16 Apr 2016, 4:59 pm

Griff, firstly I didn't make anything up. You seemed to bring in 'his form' at the Blues and I'm not sure why, given he played around two games for them(?) before being injured long-term. Hence why I mentioned the word comparison at the time. FYI I seen him play once for the Blues and he was played out of position for most of the game and played well above average, so do you wanna explain that one, or admit you're wrong?

He's had his share of inconsistent moments I'm not denying it. To say he was inconsistent year after year is something I don't agree with. When he stays injury free he plays consistently well, it's often others around him playing below their capabilities.

I also agree that he was our best 10, a bit better than Dorian and a lot better than AOB. The decision to show him the door and bring in McCleod beggars belief with me. For me he's good, that's above average BTW. Not quite on Biggar's level who I would describe as flawless. I also can't believe you would take the Priest over him, that's a shocker for me. You must surely just be buying into what Jiffy says about him when he manages to kick downfield and not put it straight out on the full, as opposed to actually watching him over a long period of time...

Lastly, you're trying not be touchy and I called you stupid? You're being any but... I clearly alluded to some of your comments being stupid. You're starting to sound a bit like LD when you come out with that, and it would be a shame if you were to remain at that level after putting him and his pointless, angry rants in place numerous times in the past.

by Guest Sat 16 Apr 2016, 6:31 pm

I'm like LD; you're like Steffan. Big deal.

by mikey_dragon Sat 16 Apr 2016, 7:13 pm

I don't get it?

by Guest Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:10 pm

Sorry, typo. Updated now.

by mikey_dragon Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:23 pm

But it was the accusation, as well as the typo. I realised it was a typo when I later looked at it. I assume you're just continuing this LD behaviour because you're now completely stumped at what I said? I still don't see how I'm like a disenfranchised, hateful coward btw, even when I think back to it again? These last few comments aren't the first time you've talked shoite about me and not been able to back it up either, is it?

by Guest Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:53 pm

You said I'm like Lord Dowlais, I said you're like Steffan (I.e. constantly aggro and niggly). Don't tell me: you can say what you want but I can't?!

In terms of backing up my claim, there's a huge list of threads here with all of your posts to peruse. Plenty of evidence to back it up. If you disagree with someone you call them a clown, call them stupid, moronic, accuse people of knowing nothing about the game, etc. Very difficult to discuss things with you.

by wayne Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:01 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Griff wrote:You said I'm like Lord Dowlais, I said you're like Steffan (I.e. constantly aggro and niggly). Don't tell me: you can say what you want but I can't?!

In terms of backing up my claim, there's a huge list of threads here with all of your posts to peruse. Plenty of evidence to back it up. If you disagree with someone you call them a clown, call them stupid, moronic, accuse people of knowing nothing about the game, etc. Very difficult to discuss things with you.

All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not like Wayne. What a colossal bell.

You mean the One True Region member 100% owned within Ospreylia as against the 50% owned within your crappy Reg, no of course not your area.

by mikey_dragon Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:05 pm

Griff wrote:You said I'm like Lord Dowlais, I said you're like Steffan (I.e. constantly aggro and niggly). Don't tell me: you can say what you want but I can't?!

In terms of backing up my claim, there's a huge list of threads here with all of your posts to peruse. Plenty of evidence to back it up. If you disagree with someone you call them a clown, call them stupid, moronic, accuse people of knowing nothing about the game, etc. Very difficult to discuss things with you.

Well I'll tell you what, I'll just leave you to it. I don't actually think you're like LD, but a few of your comments here today have been quite dowlais-esque, which seems like irrational behaviour for you.

Then surely you can point out some examples where I have directly called people those names? It's true that I think people who come out with utter turd like "Roberts can't pass/is a poor distributor" and "Rhys Priestland is a good player" don't watch rugby - because you can't actually watch rugby on a regular basis with both eyes open and believe that utter nonsense. You don't get to be the best 12 in the NH if you can't pass. You don't get to be a good player if you have to see a player psychologist, have to propose a sabbatical from the game, get turned on by your own fans after you're always selected on the back of really bad form. Those are just two examples of the delusional, stupid and moronic posts that we have to put up with reading every other day.

by Cardiff Dave Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:10 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Griff wrote:You said I'm like Lord Dowlais, I said you're like Steffan (I.e. constantly aggro and niggly). Don't tell me: you can say what you want but I can't?!

In terms of backing up my claim, there's a huge list of threads here with all of your posts to peruse. Plenty of evidence to back it up. If you disagree with someone you call them a clown, call them stupid, moronic, accuse people of knowing nothing about the game, etc. Very difficult to discuss things with you.

All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not like Wayne. What a colossal bell.

An invasive perennial by the sound of it and difficult to get rid of.

by Cardiff Dave Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:15 pm

wayne wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Griff wrote:You said I'm like Lord Dowlais, I said you're like Steffan (I.e. constantly aggro and niggly). Don't tell me: you can say what you want but I can't?!

In terms of backing up my claim, there's a huge list of threads here with all of your posts to peruse. Plenty of evidence to back it up. If you disagree with someone you call them a clown, call them stupid, moronic, accuse people of knowing nothing about the game, etc. Very difficult to discuss things with you.

All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not like Wayne. What a colossal bell.
You mean the One True Region member 100% owned within Ospreylia as against the 50% owned within your crappy Reg, no of course not your area.

60/40 I thought, what with all the WRU NDCs.

by bedfordwelsh Wed 20 Apr 2016, 4:51 pm

So Lyn has gone hardly a surprise why don't they just tell the truth though.

by munkian Wed 20 Apr 2016, 4:56 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:So Lyn has gone hardly a surprise why don't they just tell the truth though.

Thats not the Welsh way !

by bedfordwelsh Wed 20 Apr 2016, 4:58 pm

munkian wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:So Lyn has gone hardly a surprise why don't they just tell the truth though.

Thats not the Welsh way !

Lol, yeah how stupid of me.

Kingsley will take over for remainder of season and I would be happy with him taking the top job next year then look at maybe bringing in Jason Strange and Chris Horsman.

God knows what will happen though.

by GavinDragon Wed 20 Apr 2016, 5:09 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
munkian wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:So Lyn has gone hardly a surprise why don't they just tell the truth though.

Thats not the Welsh way !

Lol, yeah how stupid of me.

Kingsley will take over for remainder of season and I would be happy with him taking the top job next year then look at maybe bringing in Jason Strange and Chris Horsman.

God knows what will happen though.

Happy with that. Danny Wilson got experience with us before moving on, and while I am not advocating that we sell ourselves as a "stepping stone", it may be required to attract an up and coming coach like strange, and then hopefully new owners and investment will give him the tools to challenge for success which means he would not want to leave.

by Guest Wed 20 Apr 2016, 6:01 pm

Has Kingsley always been a head coach and no higher? What about at Sale? Just wondering if he's up to the top job? I'd be interested in him as DoR with a coach like Strange under him, as mentioned above. Not sure who else but Strange is getting great reviews everywhere he coaches.

But what about Kingsley as DoR? Can we get a simple yes/no response going on this thread from interested posters?

by Guest Wed 20 Apr 2016, 6:03 pm

And what about Lyn's illness? Sounds pretty serious to be sacked over. Wasn't a huge fan of him in the end but hope he's ok. Hope it's nothing serious. Health and family are more important than rugby Ale

by True Raven Wed 20 Apr 2016, 8:24 pm

What about Nigel Davies? Working already in gwent, coached at pro12 level already, scarlets played some brilliant attacking rugby while he nurtured some.young talent in the backs (Williams, foxy, north) and he should be cheap

by Guest Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:11 pm

Good shout actually. I wouldn't be against the idea. Always rated him as a decent coach.

by mikey_dragon Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:15 pm

Nigel would be good in a DoR role, because as you say he's good at bringing players through, building a squad, etc. Decent PR guy too, but not someone who's a great rugby coach. I'd prefer we get a kiwi from super rugby for now, and definitely line up a Gwent man for the job further down the line (it has to be Jason Strange).

by mikey_dragon Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:18 pm

Also just to add to the above, I would like for Kingsley to continue as forwards coach. He's done a good job since coming in, and I think he would do a lot better had it not been for some average personnel in the front 5 over the last couple seasons; referring to Price, Screech, TRT, Buckley here.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:23 pm

I like Nige, and think he could do a job a backs coach for you, but personally I would look for an overseas coach. The Dragons have tried the 'home grown' thing for a fair while, time to try something different.

by Guest Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:27 pm

Remember our old overseas coach Chris Anderson?! Big name in rugby league, we were his first Union gig I think. Bit of an odd signing. Proper old school tough guy coach. Struggled with us a bit though. Who doesn't!

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:38 pm

I remember you had a bit of a myserable South African there, looked like a strict school teacher. But that was way back before Turner (or Ruddock?)

by wayne Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:38 pm

Dragons fans, it would be interesting to have a good look at the Guinness League teams and see whether their head honcho was promoted from within, promoted from outside, even demoted or basically stayed the same from outside.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:39 pm

Oh, yeah that was Chris Anderson d'oh

by Guest Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:49 pm

He was an Aussie! Yeah, he was like a strict school teacher. Like a grumpier Shaun Edwards. Just looked it up and we were his ONLY Union gig! Finished 4th under him but we didn't renew his 1 year contract (or he didn't. Not sure which). He came after Ruddock.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:57 pm

Ah all Southern Hemisphere sounded the same to me back then haha. But realistically someone nononsence, and without the previous links to Wales/Dragins, would be ideal I think.

by Guest Wed 20 Apr 2016, 10:00 pm

We even had Declan Kidney for about a week until he changed his mind. Fecker! Rolling Eyes

by Guest Wed 20 Apr 2016, 10:09 pm

Thing is though that you look back and no matter what or who the coach we've always (after the first two seasons in 03 and 04) struggled with consistency. For a number of years we were somehow very good at home and very bad away. One year we were something like: won all league games at RP, lost all league games away!

There's always been false dawns with new people coming in and nothing really changing, players wanting away at the first chance, like a vicious circle. It tells me that there is something inherently wrong behind the scenes at board level or within the structure somewhere. Just hoping that we can get some new investment and changes now with the recent announcement. The rumour mill has already started that Lyn going is because of proposed investors wanting someone else in his role. No names touted yet and I suspect it is nothing more than rumours. But seems a big coincidence that they announce the region is for sale, the current board is stepping down, and then Lyn stops showing up for work and then is shown the door, all within a week! Anyone heard anything?

by mikey_dragon Wed 20 Apr 2016, 10:22 pm

If you wanted to see changes in the team performance then you change the personnel. It looks like they're starting with the board and coaching team. Next, is the players. If you wanted to see vast improvement then we would need to sign a host of world class players (some in the front 5 especially) from NZ, SA and Aus. That's never happened and highly unlikely to happen soon, hence the cycle. I fear if we don't collectively improve we will go on to lose Morgan, Dixon, Hewitt, Amos, Landman and perhaps others.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 20 Apr 2016, 10:42 pm

Phil John is leaving the Scarlets end of the season, and has said he has a few years in the tank, and looking for another team. Anyone think he may be of use to the Dragons? He's pretty experienced, still a solid grafter.

by GavinDragon Thu 21 Apr 2016, 6:24 am

Would be a like for like replacement for boris stankovic. But given Phil Prices relative improvement and us signing Hobby, I think unless John came cheap I would rather focus the money on elsewhere in the team.

I don't think that the region being up for sale and lyn leaving are linked.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 21 Apr 2016, 10:02 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I remember you had a bit of a myserable South African there, looked like a strict school teacher. But that was way back before Turner (or Ruddock?)

Newport had Ian McIntosh for a while, maybe you're thinking of him.

by 2ndtimeround Fri 22 Apr 2016, 10:16 am

Is there likely to be any truth in the Sir Terry rumour, it would be great for 1 of the regions to have such proven businessman at the helm.

by mikey_dragon Fri 22 Apr 2016, 10:22 am

Not sure about Terry, he's never had an affiliation to rugby in Newport, but his son has.

We've signed South African Pat Howard. I'm a bit underwhelmed, but if he's anything like Meyer I'll be overjoyed. He plays centre and wing so hopefully we can offload Nick Scott.

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