Gwent Dragons 2015/16 thread

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

With Warburton, I can only conclude that they like him as captain because of how he deals with referees. He's very respectful towards them.

by **RiscaGame** Mon May 02, 2016 4:59 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:You beat me to it mikey.

Bedford, was that really your brother ?

If it was then you need to have a word with him, Gwyn Jones ripped your region apart on national television and your brother just stuttered back at him when he should have put him strait.

Unless of course Gwyn might have just been speaking sense and your brother could not argue with him. I know what I am inclined to believe.

The good thing being as it's Scrum V, only a bunch of mindless cretins would have been watching.

The same types that religiously read Wales Online.

by Stone Motif Mon May 02, 2016 5:08 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:You beat me to it mikey.

Bedford, was that really your brother ?

If it was then you need to have a word with him, Gwyn Jones ripped your region apart on national television and your brother just stuttered back at him when he should have put him strait.

Unless of course Gwyn might have just been speaking sense and your brother could not argue with him. I know what I am inclined to believe.

The good thing being as it's Scrum V, only a bunch of mindless cretins would have been watching.

The same types that religiously read Wales Online.

Or indeed, write a column in it

by **RiscaGame** Tue May 03, 2016 12:28 am

Lyn has been a good coach for the Dragons and has introduced a number of new young talents to the team, despite their scant finances in comparison to the other Welsh regions and the other major European clubs.

http://www.s4c.cymru/rygbi/e_/2016/rhagolwg-gwyn-jones-2

Jones contends Dragons "are not even spending their whole player budget" when "the other regions are doing it".

He added: "Why can you complain about the standard of your players if you don't fully spend your money on your budget?

So he conveniently forgot what he was saying two weeks or so before? Or do scant finances mean little when it suits?

"Let's be perfectly honest with you - there are some journeymen in that side who are not Welsh who are contributing very little to the future of Welsh rugby."

How very Dowellaisesque. Who are these people? How is anybody meant to counter that, if you don't even name names? Who are these young Welsh people ready to step up in the place of these "journeymen"?

"And the other thing is, do they become perhaps more regional in their outlook - incorporate more of the (local) clubs?"

What does this even mean? Incorporate more of the local clubs how? What is more regional? Such tripe.

He said talented players from Wales Under-20 could develop at such a team rather than possibly finding themselves under-used by rival regions.

Oh good lord, what an idiot. Yes I'm sure that'll be great for their development.

"Well, the Dragons have won the same number of games as Zebre

Hardly tells the whole story, does it? I'm sure even Dr Gwyn can acknowledge the amount of LBPs we have. Small margins that could easily become wins next season. He doesn't mention things like our key injuries etc and look at factors as to why we have struggled this season in the league. He mentions a gulf between us and Cardiff, yet questions why we have sacked Lyn Jones. You know, the same Lyn Jones who signed up these NWQ journeymen. What a grade A plank.

All the while Dowellais criticises a Dragons supporter for getting flustered on air, when the guy has probably not had tv experience and when Dr Gwyn is probably prepared as to the nonsense he is going to spout.

But all I know about this (that confirms to me that what he said was one sided, unbalanced guff), is that the only ones I have seen flat out agreeing with what Dr Gwyn says are Owen Robins, Geraint Powell and our resident master debater/Walesonline churno. Hardly a glowing reference, is it?

by bedfordwelsh Tue May 03, 2016 5:11 am

mikey_dragon wrote:BF if that was your brother, did you question his response to Gwyn's idiots logic?

Yeah he's not the brightest, but luckily enough we are not related though coming from the valleys who really knows lol

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 8:07 am

RiscaGame wrote:How very Dowellaisesque.

How very Riscaeasque that sentence is, why don't you just grow up ?

RiscaGame wrote:and our resident master debater/Walesonline churno.

And who would that be ?

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 8:18 am

Anyway, for those of you who didn't watch it:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/36183776

by **RiscaGame** Tue May 03, 2016 9:18 am

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, for those of you who didn't watch it:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/36183776

Generating views for the BBC as well?

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 9:23 am

Oh give it a rest Risca, why are you not doing this to other members who post links on this site ?

Unfortunately I am going to either put you on ignore or start reporting you, as your trolling of me is getting tedious now.

by Stone Motif Tue May 03, 2016 9:41 am

The best bit? Be more developmental. Connacht is the model. Rightio Gwyn, so we just need a funding increase from our union then, and special dispensation to spunk the extra cash on foreign journeymen. Then we can easily replicate Connacht's success and go out one round earlier in the RCC2.

An even worse pundit than he was a player if that's possible. God help anyone who gets that clown to write their prescription.

by munkian Tue May 03, 2016 9:53 am

Gwyn really grinds my gears - Im not sure which 'journey men' hes referring to at the Dragons - Meyer came up through Ebbw Vale I believe ? Landman always gives 100%, Sarrel is decent sniping 9 and Crosswell is worth his contract plus Boris and Brok have given our scrum some parity.

The man is an absolute flid.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue May 03, 2016 10:16 am

This development region stuff is just offensive. The press can not complain about attendances and players leaving if all they are going to do is run say the Dragons are only worth anything as a development tool for the other three.

Also, I think of anything the nwq players at the Dragons are more important to them than some of those at the other regions. Look at the Scarlets nwq players, Collins is on a par with Steff Evs as a back up to Sanjay, Earle is a benchwarmer at best. Paulino is a liability. Es we have DTH, Barclay and Parkes who are all ok draw, but that make it 50-50 between stars and filler. The Blues and Ospreys are the same with they nwq lads too imo. Whereas the Dragons seem to utilise their nwq boys far more than the rest of us, so to class them as journeymen seems well of the mark.

by munkian Tue May 03, 2016 10:21 am

I completely agree we should be spending all of our budget and if not should explain where the money is going.

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 10:27 am

Do any of you know of any plans afoot to get Dragons competing with the rest of the league ? The news of new investment seems to have gone quiet.

by munkian Tue May 03, 2016 10:30 am

LordDowlais wrote:Do any of you know of any plans afoot to get Dragons competing with the rest of the league ? The news of new investment seems to have gone quiet.

There haven't been any buyers announced yet - I know they are upgrading the pitch this Summer though.

I think Lynn going may help too.

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 10:34 am

Would you think that Kingsly Jones will be in charge then Munk ?

by munkian Tue May 03, 2016 10:36 am

LordDowlais wrote:Would you think that Kingsly Jones will be in charge then Munk ?

Considering our current board's complete lack of ambition, yes.

I'd be much happier if we got some specialist coaches in though Kingsley has done Ok with our pack.

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 10:44 am

munkian wrote:Considering our current board's complete lack of ambition, yes.

That's what troubles me with the regions in general TBH. The boards have a lack of ambition, as there is no incentive for improvement, it does not matter if where they finish in the league, nothing will come of it, not as long the four regions keep producing players for Wales.

I live in hope that next season will be better for Welsh domestic rugby. This season has been a nightmare. Sad

by munkian Tue May 03, 2016 10:48 am

LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Considering our current board's complete lack of ambition, yes.

That's what troubles me with the regions in general TBH. The boards have a lack of ambition, as there is no incentive for improvement, it does not matter if where they finish in the league, nothing will come of it, not as long the four regions keep producing players for Wales.

I live in hope that next season will be better for Welsh domestic rugby. This season has been a nightmare.

i don't know if thats the same for all region's - they all have significant amount of investment compared to the Dragons.

There's rumors of Terry Matthews stepping up to buy us out but we'll probably end up with his idiot Sun.

by True Raven Tue May 03, 2016 10:52 am

LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Considering our current board's complete lack of ambition, yes.

That's what troubles me with the regions in general TBH. The boards have a lack of ambition, as there is no incentive for improvement, it does not matter if where they finish in the league, nothing will come of it, not as long the four regions keep producing players for Wales.

I live in hope that next season will be better for Welsh domestic rugby. This season has been a nightmare.

What incentives do other sporting teams have that the regions don't? The regions are run by backers who do not wish to see any financial returns but want to see success. The same sporting models as any other sports team.

by Stone Motif Tue May 03, 2016 10:57 am

LordDowlais wrote:Do any of you know of any plans afoot to get Dragons competing with the rest of the league ? The news of new investment seems to have gone quiet.

Only the 80k they've just spent on the pitch

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 10:59 am

True Raven wrote:What incentives do other sporting teams have that the regions don't?

Hmmmmmmm..... I will give you a few examples of no need to worry.

1. No fear of relegation.
2. The same funding from Europe no matter what comp they are in.
3. The same amount of money for competing in the Pro12.

If the regions finished in the bottom four of the league, there would be no repercussions. Lets face it, Dragons and Blues have been finishing just above the two Italian sides for ages now, and we have just been excepting it, as fans we should be demanding more.

by True Raven Tue May 03, 2016 11:04 am

The repercussions are that coaches lose their jobs and players contracts don't get renewed and end up playing semi pro rugby.

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 11:10 am

True Raven wrote:The repercussions are that coaches lose their jobs and players contracts don't get renewed and end up playing semi pro rugby.

Examples ?

I happen to think that the players at all the regions are pretty decent, in fact, I think they are just as good as other teams, look at the difference in the Welsh players when they are playing for Wales, there must be reasons for this.

Look at the difference in Tovey since his move to Edinburgh, he was awesome against Munster again on the weekend.

I agree with munkian, it's all down to the complete lack of ambition by the boards, and as fans we should be demanding more.

by True Raven Tue May 03, 2016 11:16 am

The blues have gone through baber, burnell, hammett, john and mackintosh since their troubles started when Dai young left.

If the money isn't there then they cant spend it. Then I agree its the board responsibility to generate income through other means but your suggestion would be to cut their funding and force them to spend even less.

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 11:25 am

True Raven wrote:The blues have gone through baber, burnell, hammett, john and mackintosh since their troubles started when Dai young left.

The amount of coaches Blues have gone through shows how inept the Blues board are.

Also, Hammett was a top quality coach, the fact that he decided to up sticks and leave says it all about how our regions are being run.

True Raven wrote:If the money isn't there then they cant spend it. Then I agree its the board responsibility to generate income through other means but your suggestion would be to cut their funding and force them to spend even less.

The players are there though aren't they. Look at your team Ospreys, a team with AWJ, Tuperic, Lydiate, Webb, Biggar, Eli Walker, Paul James, Dan Baker, Matavesi, King, amongst others should not be giving maximum points away in every away game in Europe and praying to finish in the top six of the league on the last day of the season.

by Stone Motif Tue May 03, 2016 11:26 am

True Raven wrote:The repercussions are that coaches lose their jobs and players contracts don't get renewed and end up playing semi pro rugby.

Y'know, like Lyn just did and the Chief did just the season before.

You're wasting your time with him TR he has zero ability to comprehend the damage done by Roger and how long it's going to take to sort out.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue May 03, 2016 11:31 am

LordDowlais wrote:Hammett was a top quality coach, the fact that he decided to up sticks and leave says it all about how our regions are being run.

And there was me thinking he left for personal reasons. Do you know him? Did he tell you why he left?

by Stone Motif Tue May 03, 2016 11:31 am

LordDowlais wrote:
True Raven wrote:The blues have gone through baber, burnell, hammett, john and mackintosh since their troubles started when Dai young left.

The amount of coaches Blues have gone through shows how inept the Blues board are.

Also, Hammett was a top quality coach, the fact that he decided to up sticks and leave says it all about how our regions are being run.

True Raven wrote:If the money isn't there then they cant spend it. Then I agree its the board responsibility to generate income through other means but your suggestion would be to cut their funding and force them to spend even less.

The players are there though aren't they. Look at your team Ospreys, a team with AWJ, Tuperic, Lydiate, Webb, Biggar, Eli Walker, Paul James, Dan Baker, Matavesi, King, amongst others should not be giving maximum points away in every away game in Europe and praying to finish in the top six of the league on the last day of the season.

The players aren't there. Even were Wales as good as your hyperbollix made them, surely you can see that the only decent players in the O's list above tend to be away being broken by Cement Head for the best part of their never ending season.

Baker, Walker, Matavesi, Lydiate Laugh

by True Raven Tue May 03, 2016 11:32 am

Eli walker, Dan baker, matavesi, king, Paul James are not exactly the pinnacle of European based players. Last year we finished in the playoffs and I have no doubt that if there was no world cup wed be higher in the league. However we've had success and league titles but we dont have a monopoly on it

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 11:34 am

Stone Motif wrote:Y'know, like Lyn just did

Sacked was he ?

by Stone Motif Tue May 03, 2016 11:37 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Y'know, like Lyn just did

Sacked was he ?

Stuart Davies am I?

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 11:38 am

It's always someone else's fault with you lot. Rolling Eyes

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue May 03, 2016 11:52 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Hammett was a top quality coach, the fact that he decided to up sticks and leave says it all about how our regions are being run.

And there was me thinking he left for personal reasons. Do you know him? Did he tell you why he left?

Well?

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 11:56 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Hammett was a top quality coach, the fact that he decided to up sticks and leave says it all about how our regions are being run.

And there was me thinking he left for personal reasons. Do you know him? Did he tell you why he left?

Well?

It was widely spread down at the Arms Park that he left because of player power.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue May 03, 2016 11:59 am

So in answer to my questions: no, and no.

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 12:02 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So in answer to my questions: no, and no.

Why would he tell me ? I do not even know the man. But the fact that Cardiff Blues have had umpteen people in charge of the team since Dai Young has left speaks volumes about how the region has been run. Would you not agree ?

by mikey_dragon Tue May 03, 2016 12:03 pm

munkian wrote:Gwyn really grinds my gears - Im not sure which 'journey men' hes referring to at the Dragons - Meyer came up through Ebbw Vale I believe ? Landman always gives 100%, Sarrel is decent sniping 9 and Crosswell is worth his contract plus Boris and Brok have given our scrum some parity.

The man is an absolute flid.

The guy is an idiot. Let's be honest out of all his predictions on Scrum V and the amount of times he's said Wales are built on sand, how often has he been correct? Not often at all, maybe one.

Firstly he says Dragons should become a development team and feed the other 3 teams, which technically is what all 4 have been doing for England and France, and that should improve welsh rugby. Shouldn't it be that we have 4 strong teams that will improve welsh rugby? I'm pretty sure a 10 year old who's never even watched rugby could see which is the best logic there. Secondly, in discussing this point he expanded onto Connacht and said we should follow that model, which kept Connacht confined to the bottom of the league every season. Gwyn might have been away but the IRFU invested more into Connacht which allowed them to get a top coach and some players from NZ - their transformation in performance is remarkable btw. Dragons were 50% WRU owned hence underfunded, technically we were already like the Connacht of old but they've even gone on to show us how to rectify that. This is what stood out for me the most, but there were so many misinformed gaps in what Gwyn said it's tough to decide where to begin.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue May 03, 2016 12:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So in answer to my questions: no, and no.

Why would he tell me ? I do not even know the man. But the fact that Cardiff Blues have had umpteen people in charge of the team since Dai Young has left speaks volumes about how the region has been run. Would you not agree ?

You singled out Mark Hammett. Do you want to un-single him out now?

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 12:11 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You singled out Mark Hammett. Do you want to un-single him out now?

No, because he was a very good coach with all the credentials and Blues fecked it up.

by True Raven Tue May 03, 2016 12:25 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So in answer to my questions: no, and no.

Why would he tell me ? I do not even know the man. But the fact that Cardiff Blues have had umpteen people in charge of the team since Dai Young has left speaks volumes about how the region has been run. Would you not agree ?

I thought you were debating that there are no repercussions of the regions poor results? Now you're agreeing that when the region performs poorly, the coach loses his job?

Poor results do not mean the region has been run poorly, it means that the coach and the players may not be up to the required standard.

by munkian Tue May 03, 2016 12:27 pm

True Raven wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So in answer to my questions: no, and no.

Why would he tell me ? I do not even know the man. But the fact that Cardiff Blues have had umpteen people in charge of the team since Dai Young has left speaks volumes about how the region has been run. Would you not agree ?

I thought you were debating that there are no repercussions of the regions poor results? Now you're agreeing that when the region performs poorly, the coach loses his job?

Poor results do not mean the region has been run poorly, it means that the coach and the players may not be up to the required standard.

Or that performances peak and trough like everyone else...

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 12:28 pm

True Raven wrote:Poor results do not mean the region has been run poorly, it means that the coach and the players may not be up to the required standard.

And who employs these coaches ?

by Stone Motif Tue May 03, 2016 12:29 pm

LordDowlais wrote:It's always someone else's fault with you lot.

What's always someone else's fault?

by True Raven Tue May 03, 2016 12:34 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
True Raven wrote:Poor results do not mean the region has been run poorly, it means that the coach and the players may not be up to the required standard.

And who employs these coaches ?

Unless they get given an opportunity, how else can you tell if they are up to the required standard.

Lyn jones is one of the few coaches in the league with an actual league title to his name so he may have sounded like a good appointment. Results on the pitch though, proved otherwise

by ScarletSpiderman Tue May 03, 2016 12:38 pm

I don't see how anyone in pro sport can be labelled as lacking ambition, well not if they are to be involved in it for long anyway.

Let's assume that the backers of the regions are purely in it to brag to people that they own a pro sports team. It would be pretty embarrassing for them to say 'I am the owner of Team A' only to have people say 'oh yeah, that team that constantly lose money and games'. They will have the ambition to say 'no the Team A that have improved year on year and are in the top flight'. They may not have the skills and know how to achieve those ambitions, but they will still have those ambitions.

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 12:39 pm

True Raven wrote:I thought you were debating that there are no repercussions of the regions poor results? Now you're agreeing that when the region performs poorly, the coach loses his job?

That is what I am debating, it's the regions who employ these coaches, by your definition the regions could have a new coach every other season, and keep sacking them every time they fail, this is not how we should be operating.

I am not saying it's the fans view, but the people running the regions seem quite happy to keep meandering along with the current status quo.

by munkian Tue May 03, 2016 12:40 pm

Yeah,he had one of the best Ospreys teams available who one it despite him I reckon.

He really should of pushed on and competed well in Europe with them.

by LordDowlais Tue May 03, 2016 12:45 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I don't see how anyone in pro sport can be labelled as lacking ambition, well not if they are to be involved in it for long anyway.

Well, the fact that Dragons refused to pay the extra £25.000 a year to keep Faletua seems like a distinct lack of ambition to me, hopefully the young U20's player Harrison Keddie can fill the void, but that's asking a lot of a teenager.

by True Raven Tue May 03, 2016 12:48 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:I don't see how anyone in pro sport can be labelled as lacking ambition, well not if they are to be involved in it for long anyway.

Well, the fact that Dragons refused to pay the extra £25.000 a year to keep Faletua seems like a distinct lack of ambition to me, hopefully the young U20's player Harrison Keddie can fill the void, but that's asking a lot of a teenager.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/dec/09/bath-sign-taulupe-faleteau-newport-wales-rugby

by True Raven Tue May 03, 2016 12:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
True Raven wrote:I thought you were debating that there are no repercussions of the regions poor results? Now you're agreeing that when the region performs poorly, the coach loses his job?

That is what I am debating, it's the regions who employ these coaches, by your definition the regions could have a new coach every other season, and keep sacking them every time they fail, this is not how we should be operating.

I am not saying it's the fans view, but the people running the regions seem quite happy to keep meandering along with the current status quo.

I'm arguing that when a club has poor results on the field, the board/management make changes whether that is to the playing staff or coaching staff and not standing still.

I'm one of the few ospreys fans who is happy for Tandy to stay on in his role but i wish the board would recruit more NWQ's to stay competitive

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