Gwent Dragons 2015/16 thread

[Luckless Pedestrian]

First topic message reminder :

With Warburton, I can only conclude that they like him as captain because of how he deals with referees. He's very respectful towards them.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

They're not coached by amateurs.

[RiscaGame]

Jesus

[LordDowlais]

Well of course, if it wasnt for this hybrid region farce the Valleys Tm would rule Europe.

What has that got to do with how crap Zebre are  ?

[LordDowlais]

They're not coached by amateurs.

Lynn Jones was a  coach pre regionalism, just because they are now being paid it just means they are well paid amateurs.

[RiscaGame]

[Luckless Pedestrian]

They're not coached by amateurs.

Lynn Jones was a  coach pre regionalism, just because they are now being paid it just means they are well paid amateurs.

If someone gets paid, he's not an amateur - unless you're using amateur in its original meaning of someone who does something for the love of it.

[munkian]

Surely the vast majority of international coaches were once 'amateur' ?

[LordDowlais]

If someone gets paid, he's not an amateur - unless you're using amateur in its original meaning of someone who does something for the love of it.

Lyn Jones has come from an amateur era, pre regionalism, most of his rugby life he has only known that way, not until the next generation of coaches will we see this altered, pro players, becoming pro coaches. Thus we would then get pro coaches for pro players.

[LordDowlais]

Surely the vast majority of international coaches were once 'amateur' ?

Yep that's the problem, that's why most of the international coaches are not from the NH.

[LordDowlais]

Gatland was an amateur! What are you talking about?

Do you honestly believe this ? 

The SH were miles in front of the NH, even during the 80's with there preparation and attitude towards rugby. Are you old enough to remember Jiffy's interview outside the Arms Park before he went to play league ? If you can find it on the web take a look at it, it says a lot.

The SH were all but pro other than declaring it during the 80's onwards.

[LordDowlais]

Ah, luckless, you've retracted your statement, why ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I didn't 'retract my statement', I deleted my post. I did a Google search and saw that Gatland stopped playing in 1994. But it turns out he did coach (player-coach) before the game went open. Gatland was an amateur.

[LordDowlais]

Retracted/deleted...Potatoes/Potatos........

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I like to check I've got my facts right. Turns out I shouldn't have deleted my post in the first place!

[LordDowlais]

I didn't 'retract my statement', I deleted my post. I did a Google search and saw that Gatland stopped playing in 1994. But it turns out he did coach (player-coach) before the game went open. Gatland was an amateur.

SH were not amateurs from about the 1980's. They just never admitted it.

[LordDowlais]

I like to check I've got my facts right. Turns out I shouldn't have deleted my post in the first place!

I take it you are not old enough to remember the Jiffy interview then ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I remember he was peeved (to say the least) with how badly-organised the WRU were compared to the New Zealanders. But if Gatland wasn't getting paid to coach, then by definition he was an amateur.

[LordDowlais]

I remember he was peeved (to say the least) with how badly-organised the WRU were compared to the New Zealanders. But if Gatland wasn't getting paid to coach, then by definition he was an amateur.

Have a look at what he said about the whole set-up. Take a look about what he said about diets, training, preparation, lifestyles after he came back from New Zealand. 

The SH were not really amateur. 

This is why there is not an international NH coach I can think of except the French. The SH coaches were taught to be pro's when they were playing, that's why they make for better coaches. They have not been as exposed to amateurism as the NH have. It will take at least until the likes of the players of today to hang their boots up and become coaches until we see top quality NH international coaches.

[GavinDragon]

Why is any of this relevant to the Dragons?

[LordDowlais]

Why is any of this relevant to the Dragons?

I dunno, Luckless and myself got into a debate about amateur coaches, which I think Lyn Jones is, as he came up through the amateur system.

We can leave it there if you like.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Dowlais said the Dragons are coached by amateurs, which they're not, then started talking about Lyn Jones, who's not even at the Dragons any more. That's all it was.

[Stone Motif]

Do we need another 6, with James Thomas now fit?

So that means at 6 we have Lewis Evans and a, thus far, injury prone J Thomas.

McCusker is a solid pro player. Do I think he will set the world alight? Probably not, but given the opp to come back to Wales and play at 6 and not 8 may just be the catalyst to him finding the form that lead to him being capped all those years ago.

And I should add that I doubt he would be too expensive either

The trickle of players developed by the Premiership outside of the academies will slow to a leaky tap drip. Ability and attitude they may have in spades but unless conditioned to pro rugby during the vital transition from playing part timers to playing the big boys their bodies will eventually fail them.

Did you mean to quote me then Stoney?

Indeedy I did Gaviney, picking up on the point about certain players being hopelessly injury prone, no matter how much I like them as players.

[mikey_dragon]

Dragons: Rhys Jones, Hughes, Warren, Dixon, Amos, O'Brien, Davies; Price, Buckley, Fairbrother, Screech, Crosswell, Benjamin, Thomas, Jackson.

Replacements: Dee, Garrett, Knight, Landman, Keddie, Pretorius, Jones, Meyer.

Referee: David Wilkinson (IRFU)

Assistant referees: Elia Rizzo, Simone Boaretto (FIR)

Citing commissioner: Achille Reali (FIR)

TMO: Stefano Marrama (FIR)

Zebre have a lot to play for, if they win then they go above Treviso and get into the top European comp don't they? It looks as if we've handed them a boost.

[GavinDragon]

Would have started Meyer Keddie and Garrett along with Dee

[mikey_dragon]

At the train station and just spotted Rev.... #ifyouknowyouknow

[RiscaGame]

That'll be down next season, after the stick I give them

[GavinDragon]

??

[GavinDragon]

ah the posters at the station?

[RiscaGame]

Aye.

[mikey_dragon]

Yeah that...

[mikey_dragon]

I'll start by saying that it was a terrible weekend for Welsh rugby, with us being the worst and the blues being slightly less worse than everybody else. I expected Scarlets and Ospreys to lose (the latter by less than 20 points), and I also expected us to lose but not get thrashed. Why Jones thought it was a good idea to rotate when Zebre were at home with everything to play for I don't know. Based on that decision alone I would not have him be our head coach/DOR next season. Forwards coach at the most.

[Cardiff Dave]

I'll start by saying that it was a terrible weekend for Welsh rugby, with us being the worst and the blues being slightly less worse than everybody else. I expected Scarlets and Ospreys to lose (the latter by less than 20 points), and I also expected us to lose but not get thrashed. Why Jones thought it was a good idea to rotate when Zebre were at home with everything to play for I don't know. Based on that decision alone I would not have him be our head coach/DOR next season. Forwards coach at the most.

George North bagged a brace mun and Cardiff nilled Edinburgh in the 2nd half to win convincingly.
Shame that not-Newport got butt-fecked good and proper by Aironi though. There we are.

[mikey_dragon]

So you face a team as low as you in the league, both with nothing to play for and you're bragging about nilling them in the 2nd half? If that's not desperately clutching at straws then I don't know what is.
I'm also unsure as to why you're mentioning North's form? It's not like Wales can put out a team of 15 George Norths...

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Thank f*ck this season's over.

[LordDowlais]

Thank f*ck this season's over.

Do you think next season will be any different ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Dowlais, I've you've come here to slag us off again, I really can't be @rsed.

[LordDowlais]

Dowlais, I've you've come here to slag us off again, I really can't be @rsed.

I'm not slagging anybody off, I asked a genuine question. If you do not want to answer it fine.

[mikey_dragon]

Unless some new players and coaches are announced, the short and not so sweet answer is no.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'm not thinking about next season.

[RiscaGame]

Least you have a few weeks now before you have to renew.

Think there needs to be some movement fast. I think we will probably get Jason Strange, but that's not going to be done till after his U20 WC.

I don't think there's much in the way of potential transfers to whet the appetite either. I see Kingsley spoke about how inexperience isn't an excuse this morning. He is starting to do my head in now, when he is interviewed too.

Lastly, so much for the new investor chat. Thought that was today? That said, that FB page is hardly the place for informed chat #Lynin

[GavinDragon]

I am. Get back on the horse. Our youngsters another year older, hopefully some new investors on board and if we can get a decent coach in we will improve. While we could get worse and finish 11th or 12th, in all honesty it wouldnt feel any worse than this season so the only way is up in my eyes.

[LordDowlais]

Here you go guys, I know it is WOL, and I know it is Andy Howell, but this is the Q&A from Warren Gatland yesterday, and I thought this question and answer might interest you:-

Q: Did the Dragons’ poor results in the Pro12 make it harder to pick their players?

Gatland: Yes it does. You want players coming out of winning sides, players coming into a team and being successful.
Despite players performing well as individuals it doesn’t make a huge difference so some of the selections have been historical in terms of the players we know have performed for us in the past rather than on domestic form.
There’s probably not one player in Wales at the moment who you’d say his form is so good you can’t leave him out.
You would like to be in those situations domestically, where you have two or three players who are performing at such a level their selection is guaranteed or warranted because of the way they have played.
It’s unfortunate but sometimes it’s hard for players to excel in teams that aren’t towards the top of the table.
Hopefully, the regions can put this season behind them, start afresh next season and be more successful.

The rest of the interview is here if you want to read it:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-warren-gatland-qa-there-11313088

[True Raven]

I agree with him about the form of players but then he's a hypocrite because he picks players with no form whatsoever. Priestland warms the bench at bath, Morgan likewise at Bristol where they prefer a 20 year old fly half instead.

[RiscaGame]

I read that yesterday and was waiting for you to put it on here, so you didn't disappoint. True Raven has it right about Morgan etc and furthermore, how come so many Cardiff Blues players were picked last season? Particularly his love child Cuthbert.

The biggest thing from that typical Bowell article though, is the quote underneath Hallam Amos' pic about how he struggles to show form or words to that effect. Have you not seen his recent scoring record and the type of scores he is scoring?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

So let me get this straight: Player A is better than Player B, but Player B's club is better than Player A's club, so we're going to select Player B?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

How come so many Cardiff Blues players were picked last season?

Well exactly. It seems certain clubs are exempt from this 'struggling team' penalty.

[munkian]

How come so many Cardiff Blues players were picked last season?

Well exactly. It seems certain clubs are exempt from this 'struggling team' penalty.

You mean, ALL the clubs, even in England and France, except the Dragons ?

[Steffan]

What the hell is a 'struggling team' penalty when it's at home?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Q: Did the Dragons’ poor results in the Pro12 make it harder to pick their players?
Gatland: Yes it does. You want players coming out of winning sides, players coming into a team and being successful.
Despite players performing well as individuals it doesn’t make a huge difference.

[Steffan]

I wouldn't really say the Dragons crap form for yet another season has made any difference to how many players from Newport get picked to be honest

Gatland is just answering the question diplomatically there while acknowledging yet another season at the lower of the Pro12

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