England vs Sri Lanka 2nd test debate

First topic message reminder :

So the 2nd test is upon us,Will England make another tremendous win or will Sri Lanka fight back to win the 2nd test? All will be known in 5 days time.

The 12 man teams are as follow:

England
Andrew Strauss (C)
Alistair Cook
Jonathan Trott
Kevin Pietersen
Ian Bell
Eoin Morgan
Matt Prior (W-K)
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
Chris Tremlett
Steve Finn
Jade Dernbach

Sri Lanka (Can't find the 12 man squad anywhere)

Tillakaratne Dilshan (C)
Tharanga Paranavithana (Spell check!)
Lahiru Thirimanne
Kumar Sangakkara
Mahela Jayawardene
Thilan Samaraweera
Dinesh Chandimal
Prasanna Jaywardene (W-K)
Thissara Perera
Suraj Randiv
Ajantha Mendis
Rangana Herath
Dilhara Fernanado
Chanka Welegedara
Suranga Lakmal
Farveez Maharoof

Once again like the 1st feel free to discuss the action

And updates of the match will be up on the thread.

I suspect that if England give SL 50 overs to bat SL will be chasing quite a bit more than 250, as that would mean (weather permitting) that England had batted 45-odd overs for less than 100 runs, it's not going to happen is it? If however England do make SL bat 50 overs or so they could potentially be chasing 300, which would be a far safer bet IMO.

Sonic, it is a risk, five an over for 50 overs on that Lords pitch would be well gettable. The pitch is flat, the odd ball is spinning a little maybe. I just can't see England taking the risk, they're 1-0 up in the series and in a position of strength, test match victories have to be earned and SL have (so far) not earned this one, so don't gift it to them. On the contrary, I can see England doing what they did in Cardiff: give SL a decent time to bat with little to gain, and see if they can cope.

risk vs reward is all and well, and if England were 1-0 down or this the last test with the score level then I could see it happening, but England are on top, and as such the risks outweigh the reward, comfortably.

From this position the Aussies would probably score at least 160 - 180 before lunch (presuming we are in any case looking at an early start because of the lost time) and they would be able to bring on McGrath and Warne.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I suspect that if England give SL 50 overs to bat SL will be chasing quite a bit more than 250, as that would mean (weather permitting) that England had batted 45-odd overs for less than 100 runs, it's not going to happen is it? If however England do make SL bat 50 overs or so they could potentially be chasing 300, which would be a far safer bet IMO.

Sonic, it is a risk, five an over for 50 overs on that Lords pitch would be well gettable. The pitch is flat, the odd ball is spinning a little maybe. I just can't see England taking the risk, they're 1-0 up in the series and in a position of strength, test match victories have to be earned and SL have (so far) not earned this one, so don't gift it to them. On the contrary, I can see England doing what they did in Cardiff: give SL a decent time to bat with little to gain, and see if they can cope.

risk vs reward is all and well, and if England were 1-0 down or this the last test with the score level then I could see it happening, but England are on top, and as such the risks outweigh the reward, comfortably.

Again as I mentioned before, England claim to want to be the number 1 Test nation.

Therefore they have to force the issue, no?

SL would be delighted to to leave Lords only 0-1 down. They would see the Rose Bowl as thier sort of venue. Slow, low and spinners friendly.

Mad for Chelsea - you sum up the position well

wasn't Cardiff meant to be a spinners venue sonic? We saw how that went. You want to predict how little impact Swanny will have at the rose bowl?

Therefore they have to force the issue, no?

Nope once again they're 1-0 up in the series, if anything it's SL who should be looking to force the issue, instead of which they've
a) batted slower than England.
b) set ridiculously defensive fields for England's second innings (four deep fielders for most of it).

To beat SL from here, I still think the best thing is to do what they did in Cardiff: put them in to bat when they have all to lose, and very little to gain, as then they can put them under pressure.

What I'd like to see, but unlikely, is that England with their power batters score quickly and declare at lunch or soon after.

Set SL 6 an over and try to bowl them out. Dilshans hand is a bit knackered and everyone else looks dismissable, I think they could have an unpleasant 2 sessions. My hope is that Strauss and co go for it and apply pressure for either an unlikely win or taking the momentum of another good performance down to Hampshire.

I would be seriously suprised if Englands batters came out and swung away in order to set a total for Sri Lanka to chase. They are 1-0 up in the series and will want to protect that lead.

As for Sonic_Boom's comments about Englands aspirations of being number 1 so forcing the issue..... Rubbish, teams gt to number 1 by winning series so why would they take the risk in giving Sri Lanka a target that they could possibly chase and risk a series lead?

I can't see England giving Sri lanka much more than the last session to bat today. Maybe a declaration an hour before tea, giving them 40 mins before the break.
I think Stellar Key has a point. I think they'll look to play positively in the first session, as they did yesterday, and if Kp stays in that means at least 4 an over. Can't really see a dec without a lead in excess of 300-350

I agree that England will want to put Sri Lanka under pressure and try to force a win if they can. But there's no need to risk our lead in the series - we bat until they have no hope of victory and THEN have a blast at them. It probably won't work, but there is a chance their heads will go if they find themselves in the same position as Cardiff and we get a couple of quick wickets.

Really don't think we should risk the lead.

On the BBC Tom Fordyce has already asked if England can do another Cardiff, and Aggers was chirping on in the same sort of vein. Seems EVERYONE is wondering if we can do another Cardiff!

From Stuart Law on TMS: Dilshan will not, repeat not, bat.

Well gosh...

apparently Dilshan's thumb is "more seriously injured than was previous thought" according to cricinfo. I assume that means he's got some sort of fracture or something, which means he won't be comfortable batting in SL's second innings. More reason for England to have a go at SL?

MfC: According to Law, they are not sure if it is an old injury exacerbated or an entirely new one. Nor were they entirely sure how seriously fractured it is. But either way he is not going to bat.

That batting line up does look a little more fragile without Dillers...only five frontline batsmen. I assume that Sanga would go in to open with The Parana? Although bare in mind that there are still three batsmen in that line up with test av's over 50. They shouldnt be skittled twice in two weeks.

"Hot off the Press (Association): Sri Lanka captain Tillakaratne Dilshan has suffered a hairline fracture of his right thumb and will bat on the final day of the Lord's Test only if "absolutely necessary".It was initially thought that Dilshan had just a badly-bruised thumb after being hit twice by Chris Tremlett during his 193 in Sri Lanka's first innings.But after remaining off the field yesterday, he was sent for more x-rays - which revealed bad news. A team spokesman this morning confirmed: "He has suffered a hairline fracture. He will bat only if absolutely necessary."

pack: They shouldn't. But they might.

Seems there is still uncertainty about batting. I think he might come out at number 11 or something if there were a few overs to face, perhaps, but not otherwise.

But Dilshan potentially not batting might be the first hint of uncertainty. Hope so, cruel though that is to Sri Lanka.

Thats a real shame for Dilshan, he was very entertaining in his knock of 193. Sri Lanka will miss him. I hope that England do declare at some stage but only when there is no chance of an SL victory

Hmmm so basically SL are down to just five batsmen, including Prasana. If I were Strauss I'd be seriously tempted to bat for about 40 overs and give them 55 to play out or so, couple of early wickets and those nerves will be jangling...

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Hmmm so basically SL are down to just five batsmen, including Prasana. If I were Strauss I'd be seriously tempted to bat for about 40 overs and give them 55 to play out or so, couple of early wickets and those nerves will be jangling...

ONLY when those one day specialists in the Sri Lankan side cannot possibly get the runs.

I'm not sure whether Blowers isn't more nervous than KP!

Impression given that KP is anything but secure. Then Tuffers come on saying he looks confident!

Any impressions from you tv types, if I may refer to you as such?

I reckon we should declare when is up to 275. That'll give us about 65 overs to bowl them out

These two are going along at a nice rate :-)

Duty i will be in absolute shock if Strauss does that. He's more likely to give them 50/45 overs to chase in excess of 300 if you ask me.

Lead is 207. Time is 11:50. Hope England keep pushing on. Put the Test utterly beyond reach so the Sri Lankans have nothing positive to play for.

Lead of 350+ by 3pm please.

Okay, with this KP thing: He's playing in a no pressure situation, a sure-fire draw. And he gets runs. But when the pressure was on, two down for 20-something he bottles it.

I won't be convinced until he scores consistently and in tough situations. One 50 does not a summer make.

KP's 50, from 85 balls with 6 fours. Well played big man. Some nice attacking shots in there to complements the scratching around. Odds on making it a ton?

At least he is getting runs eltham. That said, i have not been convinced with KP for some time (2years). He finds some form fleetingly but then goes back in his shell. I know that he has had injuries but i honestly feel that hisspot must be under some pressure. This innings has probably saved hime from being rested next test though. Lets hope he also performs in the next tet and regains his confidence.

Agreed, Eire. He has probably saved his spot with this knock. But, like you, I can see the same old scenario happening again. A string of poor scores defended with, 'What about that excellent 50/100 at Lords, though?'

eltham_college_spin wrote:Okay, with this KP thing: He's playing in a no pressure situation, a sure-fire draw. And he gets runs. But when the pressure was on, two down for 20-something he bottles it.

I won't be convinced until he scores consistently and in tough situations. One 50 does not a summer make.

Ah , you're a hard man , eltham

True this is an easier time to score runs than day one , and fifty - or even a hundred - here won't mean KP is back in business.

But it will probably give him a little more confidence for the Rose Bowl , and hopefully we will see something a bit more "convincing" then.

At least I hope so ... the man is just too good to watch when he is firing to fade into mediocrity.

He has scored runs in pressure situations but his over all form is poor. I think of Englands batters only Strauss has averaged less in the last year and a half.

I am a fan of his but its gettng to be a bit iffy, especially with players like Taylor performing well.

I am a big fan of Broads too but i feel the same about him right now as well.

eltham_college_spin wrote:Okay, with this KP thing: He's playing in a no pressure situation, a sure-fire draw. And he gets runs. But when the pressure was on, two down for 20-something he bottles it.

I won't be convinced until he scores consistently and in tough situations. One 50 does not a summer make.

Very harsh, with just 5 minutes of research I could point out several occasions on which KP has risen to the occasion, with the rest of our batting lineup failing to fire. Remember, it is only recently that the others have began to pull their weight too. Couple of years ago it was simply a case of 'if KP fails, England fail'.

But if his runs put us in a match winning position in the game (Oooh Swanny Swanny) then he has made a major contribution.

If only he could play himself in on a regular basis. KPs head must be a very confusing place...

KP and Broad are very similar, on their day they are true match winners but their days are becoming too few and far between. Fantastic players both, but lack that consistency.

Anyone else getting frustrated by the fact that these 2 seem to be playing for themselves rather than the game situation? I know this morning's RR isn't rubbish but they've hardly played an aggressive shot all day. We had a great chance to get a big lead by lunch and bowl them out, now we likely won't have time.

Carrot, if we are going to bowl them out today then we will do so in 50 overs. Plenty of time left yet, first target is to bat them out of the game, which we are currently doing well. A run-rate in excess of 4 an over is perfectly fine for the current situation.

Thats not all down to these two batsmen Carrot. Sri Lanka are being very defensive in their bowling and fielding.

The SL bowlers are bowling pretty well too (well these two are) to negative fields, so not easy for England to push on... RR is still above 4 an over which is fine.

KP gone, beauty from Herath

What i think that most dont understand is that If England were to turn it on, it may bite them in the bum and they collapse leaving Sri Lanka with a very chaseable target. These two are going along nicely and taking England into a position where they can choose to hit out. Money in the bank before spending it....

KP gone now, great ball.

Just seen that ball again from Herath, that had a bit of Warne about it

Terrible bowling by Fernando there. Bell certainly looks like he wants to get on with things as well

Was a ripper indeed.

Shouldn't just be seen as "KP can't play left arm spin" , but as a fine piece of bowling.

Bell has started brightly. Might kick on pretty quickly after lunch and then we'll see...

That would have bowled nearly all batsmen alfie, it was a special ball.

That turn will actually worry Sri Lanka because we all know that Swann can turn the ball well. Should be an interesting half session or so for England coming up.

eirebilly wrote:What i think that most dont understand is that If England were to turn it on, it may bite them in the bum and they collapse leaving Sri Lanka with a very chaseable target. These two are going along nicely and taking England into a position where they can choose to hit out. Money in the bank before spending it....

KP gone now, great ball.

To be fair, with 8 wickets in hand the 2 batsmen that were in could afford to take a few risks, if a couple got out then play more defensive by all means but we still have (had) Bell, Morgan, Prior to come and very very little chance that we would collapse badly enough to lose. I know the fields have been defensive but Cook has hardly even tried to get singles, lots of leaves and blocks. Anyway, still a good position but we will need as many overs as possible to have a chance of a win, still a flat pitch although it now looks like Swann may be able to do some damage

Have a go after lunch, maybe for half an hour or so, then get them in. The turn on that ball from Herath certainly suggests there'll be something in it for Swann

I know what your saying Carrot and had England been 1-0 down or still at 0-0 then i could understand that tactic. At 1-0 up in the series, there really isnt any real need to force the issue. Going at 4 an over for a session is pretty good return and now England are in a position to attack and get quick runs on the board.

I think that they will bat another 15-20 overs trying to get a lead of around 340 before declaring.

Whoah, statement of intent from Bell as third ball after lunch he comes dancing down and smacks herath over mid-on for four. Last ball of the over and he steps back and slams him through the off-side for four more, England on the charge here...

Lead of 267 at lunch with 7 wickets in hand and (apparently) 67 overs to go - not quite sure how that works since there's been 26 overs this morning session, and I assumed we have an extra hour because of the loss of time earlier in the match.

Anyway, interesting set-up given what happened to SL in the first Test and in the absence (at least from the top order) of Dilshan. The question really is whether Strauss and Flower want to really push for the victory and risk losing, or whether they bat SL right out of the game. The first option would be to bat anther half hour or so, looking to push on to maybe 320 before leaving the SLs say 55 overs to chase at about 6 an over - gettable on a decent batting strip, but would need the SL batsmen to take risks and so potentially offer wicket taking opportunities.

Second option (and given we are ahead in the series, the one I'd choose) is to simply accumulate runs for 1.5 hours and declare in time to give a short session before tea for the SL openers to survive. Should be a draw, but as Cardiff proved, anything can happen once a wicket or two start to fall and a bit of panic sets in.

Belly appears to have come out with an agenda here. Cooky seems to have come out to complete his 100 before doing anything silly (aka aggressive)