News items that dont merit their own thread...thread

[The_Enigma]

First topic message reminder :

I totally understand that the majority of you may dislike or have never seen any form of Independent Wrestling so turn a blind eye to it but I truly believe this is such a powerful promo hyping something that we all share here...

This is Mike Quackenbush, founder of Chikara Pro and I quite frankly consider him to be one of the best storytellers in the business. Enjoy.

[Marky]

Hardy's in ROH also gives them the NJPW option which would be a great place for the broken gimmick.

[Kay Fabe]

I dont recall either of the Dudleys beating HHH clean in a singles match on PPV

That was more to do with HHH trying to prove a point I think, I'm obviously working off memory here but I'm pretty certain the story doing the rounds on the dirts was HHH wasn't overly happy that they brought Jericho back and decided to make his own star, hence why he went above and beyond putting Hardy over.

[Ché Guerrero]

Not sure what relevance his motive is here, he got Hardy over and he spent two years in the main event scene. The only slow down was a feud with Matt that didnt go over as well as expected

[Crimey]

Also supposedly ROH are pretty skint right now, so doubt they'd be able to afford the Hardys. It will be tempting for the two of them to go to WWE, get a pay day and even if it doesn't work out they can always leave in a year or two and use their increased exposure to get more indie bookings.

Right now, they could secure plenty of indie bookings, that certainly wouldn't change if they went to WWE. However if the Hardys spent the next year or two on the indies, playing out the gimmick I doubt WWE will be as interested. It's their big chance to get a big pay day. I wouldn't be massively surprised if they were given a slightly smaller schedule than usual, particularly with Jeff's problems. NXT is also an option I suppose, where they could, for the most part, stay in one place.

[marty2086]

Where did you hear ROH are broke? Sinclair are worth billions and have been smart with their money in ROH especially recently, they have happily allowed guys to leave because they don't want to pay too much for guys except in exceptional circumstances. They rely on creating 'stars' regularly

[Crimey]

Not actually unable to pay, but they don't want to pay over the odds and the Hardys would certainly be worth more than the kinds of talent they've already let go.

[marty2086]

Exactly, they believe they can pay guys a less than top guys are asking to fill the role, the Hardys though could get more eyes on the product and with the NJPW link up and them coming to the US that could have huge potential

[Beer]

I dont recall either of the Dudleys beating HHH clean in a singles match on PPV

That was more to do with HHH trying to prove a point I think, I'm obviously working off memory here but I'm pretty certain the story doing the rounds on the dirts was HHH wasn't overly happy that they brought Jericho back and decided to make his own star, hence why he went above and beyond putting Hardy over.

Did he also do that when he put him over for the Intercontinental Title? By my recollection has put Jeff over 3 times clean? All for titles?

[Samo]

I dont recall either of the Dudleys beating HHH clean in a singles match on PPV

That was more to do with HHH trying to prove a point I think, I'm obviously working off memory here but I'm pretty certain the story doing the rounds on the dirts was HHH wasn't overly happy that they brought Jericho back and decided to make his own star, hence why he went above and beyond putting Hardy over.

Did he also do that when he put him over for the Intercontinental Title? By my recollection has put Jeff over 3 times clean? All for titles?

He pinned for the IC title after Matt cracked HHH with a chair, so that wasnt clean. He pinned Edge in the Triple threat to win the WWE title. The only time I recall HHH doing a clean job to Hardy was a number 1 contenders match. HHH put him over and made him look a million bucks in those matches though, he just didnt job often.

[Electric Demon]

I thought Jeff beat Triple H for the IC title in a ladder match on Smackdown?

My memory is awful though

[Beer]

Jeff beat HHH clean at Armageddon 2007.
Jeff beat HHH clean at Smackdown in 2001.

Perhaps clean isn't the word. At Armageddon 2008, Jeff lands the Swanton on Edge/HHH and HHH rolls out of the ring. The chair shot from Matt still put Hardy over in that match.

Samo is right though, HHH made Hardy look like a legitimate star and Jeff ran with it. I don't think it has anything to do with Jericho.

[Ché Guerrero]

He was the last face I properly got behind before finding IWC and the pre Punk era. And it was mostly due to that run starting with the Armageddon No 1 contenders match.

[Kay Fabe]

Jeff beat HHH clean at Armageddon 2007.
Jeff beat HHH clean at Smackdown in 2001.

Perhaps clean isn't the word. At Armageddon 2008, Jeff lands the Swanton on Edge/HHH and HHH rolls out of the ring. The chair shot from Matt still put Hardy over in that match.

Samo is right though, HHH made Hardy look like a legitimate star and Jeff ran with it. I don't think it has anything to do with Jericho.

I'm obviously working soley from memory here but HHH apparently wasn't a big fan of the whole 'save us' gimmick Jericho used for his comeback in 2007 and didn't feel he was a big enough star to 'save' the WWE anyway, to prove his point he decided to really push Jeff and let him go over clean at Armageddon 2007, Jeff was hot as hell after it and HHH probably looked like he was justified in his thinking - the original planned was believed to be Jericho winning the MitB but because of HHH's determination to get Jeff over it looked like Hardy was getting that, he then failed a Wellness the week before Mania, they fiung the IC strap on Jericho, I think this was Vince's way of saying 'i told you so' and then elevated CM Punk to the MitB case.

It's hard to say if HHH was right, the whole Save Us concept was intriguing and while it became apparent it was Jericho, his arrival was kinda flat, from what I remember from the time, Jericho was supposed to come in as a hell and Save Us from Cena, get the belt off him and then have a re-match at WrestleMania where the likelihood is Cena would've reclaimed the belt but as it happened, so many injuries had taken place, Jericho got thrown into a feud with Orton who again HHH made look strong at No Mercy 07(???) so that was never going to amount to anything then a short feud with JBL who had been retired for about 2 years.

I wouldn't say HHH made Jeff look like a legitimate star, I felt being in the Main Event with his erratic but exciting style against the robotic machine Randy Orton did more for Hardy, withoutre-watching that Armageddon match with Hunter, I'm sure Hardy looked like he got a plucky victory, HHH tried hard but never truly went all out, just enough to make him more relevant at the time than Chris Jericho.

[Ché Guerrero]

I wasn't a fan of 'save us' Jericho. But he followed it up with the 'honest man' gimmick which I still think is he best work.

[Kay Fabe]

The Save Us gimmick bombed because Cena got injured and he had nothing to save anyone from, by the time he arrived they had just went balls deep with Orton and as he was young and still relatively fresh there wasn't a need to save us from him.

I think the honest man gimmick would've been used on Cena if he didn't get injured.

[Beer]

Jeff beat HHH clean at Armageddon 2007.
Jeff beat HHH clean at Smackdown in 2001.

Perhaps clean isn't the word. At Armageddon 2008, Jeff lands the Swanton on Edge/HHH and HHH rolls out of the ring. The chair shot from Matt still put Hardy over in that match.

Samo is right though, HHH made Hardy look like a legitimate star and Jeff ran with it. I don't think it has anything to do with Jericho.

I'm obviously working soley from memory here but HHH apparently wasn't a big fan of the whole 'save us' gimmick Jericho used for his comeback in 2007 and didn't feel he was a big enough star to 'save' the WWE anyway, to prove his point he decided to really push Jeff and let him go over clean at Armageddon 2007, Jeff was hot as hell after it and HHH probably looked like he was justified in his thinking - the original planned was believed to be Jericho winning the MitB but because of HHH's determination to get Jeff over it looked like Hardy was getting that, he then failed a Wellness the week before Mania, they fiung the IC strap on Jericho, I think this was Vince's way of saying 'i told you so' and then elevated CM Punk to the MitB case.

It's hard to say if HHH was right, the whole Save Us concept was intriguing and while it became apparent it was Jericho, his arrival was kinda flat, from what I remember from the time, Jericho was supposed to come in as a hell and Save Us from Cena, get the belt off him and then have a re-match at WrestleMania where the likelihood is Cena would've reclaimed the belt but as it happened, so many injuries had taken place, Jericho got thrown into a feud with Orton who again HHH made look strong at No Mercy 07(???) so that was never going to amount to anything then a short feud with JBL who had been retired for about 2 years.

I wouldn't say HHH made Jeff look like a legitimate star, I felt being in the Main Event with his erratic but exciting style against the robotic machine Randy Orton did more for Hardy, withoutre-watching that Armageddon match with Hunter, I'm sure Hardy looked like he got a plucky victory, HHH tried hard but never truly went all out, just enough to make him more relevant at the time than Chris Jericho.

Jeff was scheduled to win MITB that year, i know that much, before the 60 day wellness issue, but being honest, that's the first i've ever heard of HHH having issue with Jericho's return. I remember Jerry Lawler basically ruining the whole return that night with the 'It was the Jericode' line which made it sound lame.

I remember Armageddon 2007, it was standard Jeff fare, took a beating, but he did fight back, and he held his own. I don't mean a legit star in the sense of Lesnar etc, but he never made Jeff look out of place. Even at the end of the match, HHH doesn't lose his sh|t cause he lost to a no hoper like Hardy, it was respect. Same respect he got from Taker in that ladder match.

Shame Jeff ended up getting released the way he did. He'd be a multiple world champ.

[Crimey]

Triple H has always hated Jericho, my guess is it stems back to Stephanie liking him (as a wrestler) and Triple H being insecure.

[Fernando]

Post WM Stuff :

I guess it's a rumor but better safe than sorry if ruin it

[Kay Fabe]

Jeff beat HHH clean at Armageddon 2007.
Jeff beat HHH clean at Smackdown in 2001.

Perhaps clean isn't the word. At Armageddon 2008, Jeff lands the Swanton on Edge/HHH and HHH rolls out of the ring. The chair shot from Matt still put Hardy over in that match.

Samo is right though, HHH made Hardy look like a legitimate star and Jeff ran with it. I don't think it has anything to do with Jericho.

I'm obviously working soley from memory here but HHH apparently wasn't a big fan of the whole 'save us' gimmick Jericho used for his comeback in 2007 and didn't feel he was a big enough star to 'save' the WWE anyway, to prove his point he decided to really push Jeff and let him go over clean at Armageddon 2007, Jeff was hot as hell after it and HHH probably looked like he was justified in his thinking - the original planned was believed to be Jericho winning the MitB but because of HHH's determination to get Jeff over it looked like Hardy was getting that, he then failed a Wellness the week before Mania, they fiung the IC strap on Jericho, I think this was Vince's way of saying 'i told you so' and then elevated CM Punk to the MitB case.

It's hard to say if HHH was right, the whole Save Us concept was intriguing and while it became apparent it was Jericho, his arrival was kinda flat, from what I remember from the time, Jericho was supposed to come in as a hell and Save Us from Cena, get the belt off him and then have a re-match at WrestleMania where the likelihood is Cena would've reclaimed the belt but as it happened, so many injuries had taken place, Jericho got thrown into a feud with Orton who again HHH made look strong at No Mercy 07(???) so that was never going to amount to anything then a short feud with JBL who had been retired for about 2 years.

I wouldn't say HHH made Jeff look like a legitimate star, I felt being in the Main Event with his erratic but exciting style against the robotic machine Randy Orton did more for Hardy, withoutre-watching that Armageddon match with Hunter, I'm sure Hardy looked like he got a plucky victory, HHH tried hard but never truly went all out, just enough to make him more relevant at the time than Chris Jericho.

Jeff was scheduled to win MITB that year, i know that much, before the 60 day wellness issue, but being honest, that's the first i've ever heard of HHH having issue with Jericho's return. I remember Jerry Lawler basically ruining the whole return that night with the 'It was the Jericode' line which made it sound lame.

I remember Armageddon 2007, it was standard Jeff fare, took a beating, but he did fight back, and he held his own. I don't mean a legit star in the sense of Lesnar etc, but he never made Jeff look out of place. Even at the end of the match, HHH doesn't lose his sh|t cause he lost to a no hoper like Hardy, it was respect. Same respect he got from Taker in that ladder match.

Shame Jeff ended up getting released the way he did. He'd be a multiple world champ.

Jeff was scheduled to win the MitB that year but only after HHH went all out to push him, Jericho was the guy McMahon initially wanted, by the time Hardy failed his Wellness they had already set plans in store for Jericho and Shawn Michaels to fued which would lead to the World Title so put the case on a surprise winner instead.

This isn't hindsight booking, just what I remember doing the rounds at the time on the dirts.

Did Hardy get released or did he just not re-new his contract? I think it was his decision, I agree though, it's a shame he left when he did, his whole flawed genuis backstory was the perfect foil for a straight edge heel CM Punk.

He was already a 3 time World Champion in WWE so I think it goes without saying that he'd have won a few more had he stayed.

[Beer]

Jeff beat HHH clean at Armageddon 2007.
Jeff beat HHH clean at Smackdown in 2001.

Perhaps clean isn't the word. At Armageddon 2008, Jeff lands the Swanton on Edge/HHH and HHH rolls out of the ring. The chair shot from Matt still put Hardy over in that match.

Samo is right though, HHH made Hardy look like a legitimate star and Jeff ran with it. I don't think it has anything to do with Jericho.

I'm obviously working soley from memory here but HHH apparently wasn't a big fan of the whole 'save us' gimmick Jericho used for his comeback in 2007 and didn't feel he was a big enough star to 'save' the WWE anyway, to prove his point he decided to really push Jeff and let him go over clean at Armageddon 2007, Jeff was hot as hell after it and HHH probably looked like he was justified in his thinking - the original planned was believed to be Jericho winning the MitB but because of HHH's determination to get Jeff over it looked like Hardy was getting that, he then failed a Wellness the week before Mania, they fiung the IC strap on Jericho, I think this was Vince's way of saying 'i told you so' and then elevated CM Punk to the MitB case.

It's hard to say if HHH was right, the whole Save Us concept was intriguing and while it became apparent it was Jericho, his arrival was kinda flat, from what I remember from the time, Jericho was supposed to come in as a hell and Save Us from Cena, get the belt off him and then have a re-match at WrestleMania where the likelihood is Cena would've reclaimed the belt but as it happened, so many injuries had taken place, Jericho got thrown into a feud with Orton who again HHH made look strong at No Mercy 07(???) so that was never going to amount to anything then a short feud with JBL who had been retired for about 2 years.

I wouldn't say HHH made Jeff look like a legitimate star, I felt being in the Main Event with his erratic but exciting style against the robotic machine Randy Orton did more for Hardy, withoutre-watching that Armageddon match with Hunter, I'm sure Hardy looked like he got a plucky victory, HHH tried hard but never truly went all out, just enough to make him more relevant at the time than Chris Jericho.

Jeff was scheduled to win MITB that year, i know that much, before the 60 day wellness issue, but being honest, that's the first i've ever heard of HHH having issue with Jericho's return. I remember Jerry Lawler basically ruining the whole return that night with the 'It was the Jericode' line which made it sound lame.

I remember Armageddon 2007, it was standard Jeff fare, took a beating, but he did fight back, and he held his own. I don't mean a legit star in the sense of Lesnar etc, but he never made Jeff look out of place. Even at the end of the match, HHH doesn't lose his sh|t cause he lost to a no hoper like Hardy, it was respect. Same respect he got from Taker in that ladder match.

Shame Jeff ended up getting released the way he did. He'd be a multiple world champ.

Jeff was scheduled to win the MitB that year but only after HHH went all out to push him, Jericho was the guy McMahon initially wanted, by the time Hardy failed his Wellness they had already set plans in store for Jericho and Shawn Michaels to fued which would lead to the World Title so put the case on a surprise winner instead.

This isn't hindsight booking, just what I remember doing the rounds at the time on the dirts.

Did Hardy get released or did he just not re-new his contract? I think it was his decision, I agree though, it's a shame he left when he did, his whole flawed genuis backstory was the perfect foil for a straight edge heel CM Punk.

He was already a 3 time World Champion in WWE so I think it goes without saying that he'd have won a few more had he stayed.

I can't remember, I know he was allowed to leave because of injuries, but he then ended up in TNA 4 months later, so I'm unsure.

[Dr Gregory House MD]

AJ Styles has won the Wrestler of the Year in the Observer awards for the 2nd year in a row

He's also won the Most Outstanding (Best in Ring) for the 3rd year running

Obviously these both pale in comparison to the 2016 V2 WWC but I thought it was worth noting all the same

[Ché Guerrero]

Did he win the Bryan Danielson award as well?

[Ché Guerrero]

Oh nah went to ZSJ

Cesaro most underrated 4th year in a row
Young Bucks love in continues

[Dr Gregory House MD]

Did he win the Bryan Danielson award as well?

No ZSJr won that

[Marky]

Matt Riddle won a couple, the guy is superb.

[Dr Gregory House MD]

Matt Riddle won a couple, the guy is superb.

I wasn't 100% sure about him for most improved, the guys been outstanding from about 2 months in, rookie certainally probably the fastest anyone's taken to pro graps since Angle

[Ché Guerrero]

Ospreay got best flying wrestler

[Fernando]

Teh Broken Hardy's won the ROH Tag Titles last night from the Young Bucks, Bully Ray/Bubba also debuted.

[Ché Guerrero]

If you guys get a chance watch the Galloway v Ospreay main event from WCPW Exit Wounds. The whole show was pretty good too

The show in its entirety is still up for free on their main channel

[Ché Guerrero]

Spoiler:

[Fernando]

Kairi Hojo has signed a 3 year deal with WWE apparently. Io Shirai strongly reconsidering their offer too.

[NickisBHAFC]

If you guys get a chance watch the Galloway v Ospreay main event from WCPW Exit Wounds. The whole show was pretty good too

The show in its entirety is still up for free on their main channel

I wanna go to WCPW show, but it sounds like a lot of people there are nobs.

[Marky]

If you guys get a chance watch the Galloway v Ospreay main event from WCPW Exit Wounds. The whole show was pretty good too

The show in its entirety is still up for free on their main channel

I wanna go to WCPW show, but it sounds like a lot of people there are nobs.

Anyone wanna say it?

[NickisBHAFC]

If you guys get a chance watch the Galloway v Ospreay main event from WCPW Exit Wounds. The whole show was pretty good too

The show in its entirety is still up for free on their main channel

I wanna go to WCPW show, but it sounds like a lot of people there are nobs.

Anyone wanna say it?

Im only going by what i read on the progress fans page on facebook.

[Samo]

WCPW fans are such marks its embarrasing, and I like WhatCulture as a channel in general.

[JCmag82]

Been to a fair few of the WCPW shows as they are based up here and it used to be a canny night out at the academy. They moved to the uni where it is now all seating and I think that takes away from the atmosphere. There are a few fans who think the show is about them but on the whole I have always ended up having some good craic with most fans. One thing is guaranteed though, you will always see good matches.

[Samo]

A fed based out of New Jersey have booked Colt cabana vs Ryback in a 'CM Punk figure on a pole' match

[Crimey]

TNA have claimed ownership of the Broken Universe. So for now the Hardys won't be able to use any of that stuff. Same old crap by TNA.

[GSC]

Xavier Rhodes, please take a number...

[dyrewolfe]

TNA have claimed ownership of the Broken Universe. So for now the Hardys won't be able to use any of that stuff. Same old crap by TNA.

If the Hardy's came up with it (can't believe anyone in TNA creative would be capable of that) surely they could sue for theft of intellectual property?

[Ché Guerrero]

So the Paige leaks.....

One involves Xavier Woods while Brad Maddox films it

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Alexa hacked, and apparently Summer Rae and Kaitlyn are on the way.

The cloud is dangerous

[Ché Guerrero]

Well obviously you shouldnt connect all your personal devices and synchronise them on the same network. You also shouldnt add control of your utilities to this fecking single network

My god how did anyone manage to sell this to people ffs

[Crimey]

TNA have claimed ownership of the Broken Universe. So for now the Hardys won't be able to use any of that stuff. Same old crap by TNA.

If the Hardy's came up with it (can't believe anyone in TNA creative would be capable of that) surely they could sue for theft of intellectual property?

Well it's not quite that simple:

1. TNA are claiming it was a collobaration between the Hardys and their own creative team, more specifically Jeremy Borash who definitely did direct and produce Final Deletion, the extent of his involvement is unclear. 
2. Most wrestling contracts, in both WWE and TNA (from those that have been leaked) universally say characters created within the company are the IP of the company, not the wrestler's themselves. Diesel and Razor Ramon come to mind, they couldn't take those characters to WCW.

[marty2086]

Well obviously you shouldnt connect all your personal devices and synchronise them on the same network. You also shouldnt add control of your utilities to this fecking single network

My god how did anyone manage to sell this to people ffs

Obviously people shouldn't hack and attempt to blackmail people or release personal and private material

[marty2086]

TNA have claimed ownership of the Broken Universe. So for now the Hardys won't be able to use any of that stuff. Same old crap by TNA.

If the Hardy's came up with it (can't believe anyone in TNA creative would be capable of that) surely they could sue for theft of intellectual property?

Well it's not quite that simple:

1. TNA are claiming it was a collobaration between the Hardys and their own creative team, more specifically Jeremy Borash who definitely did direct and produce Final Deletion, the extent of his involvement is unclear. 
2. Most wrestling contracts, in both WWE and TNA (from those that have been leaked) universally say characters created within the company are the IP of the company, not the wrestler's themselves. Diesel and Razor Ramon come to mind, they couldn't take those characters to WCW.

Think it was a tweet from Reby I saw where she claimed that because the Hardys were using it outside TNA it meant that it wasn't TNAs property.

Not sure the Hardys were on the right contract for it but weren't TNA hiring out the talent?

[Crimey]

TNA have claimed ownership of the Broken Universe. So for now the Hardys won't be able to use any of that stuff. Same old crap by TNA.

If the Hardy's came up with it (can't believe anyone in TNA creative would be capable of that) surely they could sue for theft of intellectual property?

Well it's not quite that simple:

1. TNA are claiming it was a collobaration between the Hardys and their own creative team, more specifically Jeremy Borash who definitely did direct and produce Final Deletion, the extent of his involvement is unclear. 
2. Most wrestling contracts, in both WWE and TNA (from those that have been leaked) universally say characters created within the company are the IP of the company, not the wrestler's themselves. Diesel and Razor Ramon come to mind, they couldn't take those characters to WCW.

Think it was a tweet from Reby I saw where she claimed that because the Hardys were using it outside TNA it meant that it wasn't TNAs property.

Not sure the Hardys were on the right contract for it but weren't TNA hiring out the talent?

I'm not Reby Sky has got her law degree quite yet though.

It's a very complicated situation but I do think TNA have the right to stop the Hardy's using the gimmick in it's current form. Whether ethically they should be doing it is a different question. The Hardys have stuck by TNA for a long time and did a lot to get eyes on their product over the past year and now they have walked away because of big changes in their contract, TNA are throwing their legal weight around is a little bit questionable. 

Legally though, they created the gimmicks under the TNA banner, it was then used in other promotions, but whilst still under TNA contract and with the permission of TNA. Now they are proposing using it outside of TNA, not under TNA contract. 

I suspect what Anthem and TNA are really trying to stop is WWE picking them up and using the Broken gimmick. Rather than get into a legal battle with WWE they are going to scare other promotions from using the gimmick, let it die down and then WWE won't use it either. It's very petty.

[Scott is Back]

Alexa hacked, and apparently Summer Rae and Kaitlyn are on the way.

The cloud is dangerous

Dangerous for my wrist!!!

[marty2086]

I agree its complicated but don't think its that petty, its smart business something TNA haven't really ever had.

It also didn't get as many eyes on the product as some seem to think, yes they got their highest ratings on POP for Final Deletion but that was curiosity, they didn't hold most of those viewers. You would think the whole thing broke the needle for the show the way people talk about it. Most people initially ridiculed too then jumped on the bandwagon as it was seen as unique.

What is petty, is the claims by Reby that they broke child labour laws

[Ché Guerrero]

Rebys twitter is fun

[Sponsored content]