England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3

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ENGLAND vs  IRELAND

Date: Saturday 27th February 2016
Venue: Twickenham
Kick Off: 16:50 (GMT)
Referee: Romain Poite (FFR)
Asst Refs: Nigel Owens (WRU), Alexandre Ruiz (FFR)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (SARU)
TV Coverage: Live on ITV, RTE, FR2


Head to Head

Played - 119
Wins - 65/47
Draws - 7
Points - 1443/1037


Current Form

England:
W 40-9 v Italy
W 15-9 v Scotland
W 60-3 v Uruguay

Ireland:
L 9-10 v France
D 16-16 v wales
L 20-43 v Argentina


Recent Meetings

05/09/15 England 21 Ireland 13
01/03015 Ireland 19 England 9
22/02/14 England 13 Ireland 10
10/02/13 Ireland 6 England 12
17/03/12 England 30 Ireland 9



Teams

England


1 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 39 caps)
2 Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 68 caps)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 58 caps)
4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 1 cap)
5 George Kruis (Saracens, 12 caps)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 45 caps)
7 James Haskell (Wasps, 64 caps)
8 Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens, 23 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
10 George Ford (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 37 caps)
13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
15 Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 45 caps)
Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens, 5 caps)
17 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 30 caps)
18 Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 44 caps)
20 Jack Clifford (Harlequins, 2 caps)
21 Danny Care (Harlequins, 56 caps)
22 Elliot Daly (Wasps, uncapped)
23 Alex Goode (Saracens, 20 caps)


Ireland


15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 68
14. Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 60
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 17
12. Stuart McCloskey (Ballynahinch/Ulster)*
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 47
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 58
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 44
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 27
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain 91
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 56
4. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster) 36
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 33
6. CJ Stander (Munster) 2
7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) Vice Captain 82

Replacements
16. Richard Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster) 14
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 56
18. Nathan White (Connacht) 10
19. Ultane Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 7
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster) 68
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 27
23. Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster) 22

majesticimperialman wrote:If you watch the "kick" has brown trys to kick the ball out of Murray hands, Murray pulls the ball back. so ( in effect Muray is holding on) so should of been a penaltie too England.

Brown was also in from the side, he comes around walking on Murray's head, then, the back heel, then two swipes around the head area. He can't take the law into his own hands anyway, least of all when he himself is infringing.

If we are serious about protecting players from concussion, then maybe we need to be careful mindlessly and petulantly throwing kicks around people's heads.

TJ wrote:Ok - having watched the clip there ( and being neutral on this)- Pen against Murray for hands on the ground / not releasing ( he was initially legitimate going for the ball but then held on once off his feet)  Even thats not clear - no england player is going for the ball and is murray trying to place the ball back having won a turnover - debatable

Brown goes in for the ball legitimately - but then is reckless in his use of the boot as its far too close to the Murrays head.  Pen reversed for reckless use of the boot/  Probable yellow card. He might have got away with one go - but repeated?

Intent does not matter in this case nor the fact Murray was holding on on the ground.  Reckless use of the boot in a ruck is foul play with no intent needed.  I expect him to be cited and banned

It certainly looks pretty bad, yes Murray was holding on but that does not excuse foul play (The Laws of the game state that kicking an opponent is foul play). Browns studs were raked across Murrays eyes, he also continued kicking Murray on the floor. He can claim that he was aiming for the ball but the Laws do not take intent into account.

I suspect though that it will not be taken any further, as the disciplinary process in rugby union is simply not fit for purpose, as the World Cup proved beyond doubt.

LondonTiger wrote:Sam,
Really surprised you thought George was a step up yesterday. I felt it was quite comfortably his worst cameo so far, epitomised by struggling and failing to find Kruis in his first lineout his first lineout.

Would still like him to get more time though.

Considering how dominant our line out was it was disappointing to make a mess of that one. The scrum improved when he came on and he just seemed more combative. Hartley was quiet and whilst efficient he can do more.

VinceWLB wrote:TJ have a look here: http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/mike-brown-england-ireland-kick-conor-murray-six-nations/67183

TMO won the game for England.

So who was the best team on the day Vince.

Ireland have beaten England enough times in the last few years without needing the officials to step in. Why do you need them to do it this time?

Marshes wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:If you watch the "kick" has brown trys to kick the ball out of Murray hands, Murray pulls the ball back. so ( in effect Muray is holding on) so should of been a penaltie too England.

Brown was also in from the side, he comes around walking on Murray's head, then, the back heel, then two swipes around the head area. He can't take the law into his own hands anyway, least of all when he himself is infringing.

If we are serious about protecting players from concussion, then maybe we need to be careful mindlessly and petulantly throwing kicks around people's heads.

Brown is a disgrace and not for the first time either. A undisciplined yob is one way of putting it and I hope he is banned for a long time for his thuggery.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Marshes wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:If you watch the "kick" has brown trys to kick the ball out of Murray hands, Murray pulls the ball back. so ( in effect Muray is holding on) so should of been a penaltie too England.

Brown was also in from the side, he comes around walking on Murray's head, then, the back heel, then two swipes around the head area. He can't take the law into his own hands anyway, least of all when he himself is infringing.

If we are serious about protecting players from concussion, then maybe we need to be careful mindlessly and petulantly throwing kicks around people's heads.

Brown is a disgrace and not for the first time either.  A undisciplined yob is one way of putting it and I hope he is banned for a long time for his thuggery.

What a load of rubbish....

My last comment on the complete waste of time that is the Evil Brown debate. As far as I could see when murray left the pitch he had a cut on one eyebrow. If EB had been putting more pressure down on his foot towards Murray's head there would have been more damage than there was. It suggests a glancing blow. A potentially dangerous one yes but not the kind of repeated raking attack that some on here seem to think.

Plenty of pre judging based on Brown's perceived character but that incident had nothing to do with the result of the match.

Apart from the first 5 minutes and that spell at the start of the third quarter Ireland were second best. Considering the penalty count and 20 minutes with an extra man Ireland had chances and they failed to make the most of them. The lineout in particular must have been a worry, because we had a field day when Best decided to throw straight. Toner has played better but he had a bad day yesterday, as did Best (great save for Haskell's attempt on the line notwithstanding)

As to Care's YC. I think in itself it wasn't in itself necessarily YC worthy but it was more of a team YC. No real complaints given the situation and the number of (stupid) penalties we gave away.

Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

If Ireland were that bothered why did the forwards stand back! They should have cleared Brown out of the stadium. Problem solved.

This hatred of Brown is really starting to irritate me In fact I'm getting sick of this constant "its ok for any other side but wrong if its England" attitude!!!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

If Ireland were that bothered why did the forwards stand back! They should have cleared Brown out of the stadium. Problem solved.

This hatred of Brown is really starting to irritate me In fact I'm getting sick of this constant "its ok for any other side but wrong if its England" attitude!!!

And the holier than feckin thou thing. I mean - how exactly did Ben Youngs get injured after playing so well in the first half of a certain RWC game?

lostinwales wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:TJ have a look here: http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/mike-brown-england-ireland-kick-conor-murray-six-nations/67183

TMO won the game for England.

So who was the best team on the day Vince.

Ireland have beaten England enough times in the last few years without needing the officials to step in. Why do you need them to do it this time?

Would have loved to see the last few minutes with a 21-17 scoreline and 2 English players in the bin as it should have.

England were better for 70% of the game, not denying that but Ireland DID look better the few times they actually played with some intent and looked the fresher of the 2 teams at the end.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

If Ireland were that bothered why did the forwards stand back! They should have cleared Brown out of the stadium. Problem solved.

This hatred of Brown is really starting to irritate me In fact I'm getting sick of this constant "its ok for any other side but wrong if its England" attitude!!!

?

No one else from another team kicked a player in the head and drew blood over the weekend did they?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

That's not even true as he came in from the side!

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

If Ireland were that bothered why did the forwards stand back! They should have cleared Brown out of the stadium. Problem solved.

This hatred of Brown is really starting to irritate me In fact I'm getting sick of this constant "its ok for any other side but wrong if its England" attitude!!!

?

No one else from another team  kicked a player in the head and drew blood over the weekend did they?

Connor should not have held on to the ball....illegal! Works both ways !

VinceWLB wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

That's not even true as he came in from the side!

Looked fine to me. Or is it because he had a white shirt on that its all wrong!

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

If Ireland were that bothered why did the forwards stand back! They should have cleared Brown out of the stadium. Problem solved.

This hatred of Brown is really starting to irritate me In fact I'm getting sick of this constant "its ok for any other side but wrong if its England" attitude!!!

?

No one else from another team  kicked a player in the head and drew blood over the weekend did they?

Connor should not have held on to the ball....illegal! Works both ways !

i didnt actually see when Connor kicked someone in the head though, please tell me where that happened?

lostinwales wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:TJ have a look here: http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/mike-brown-england-ireland-kick-conor-murray-six-nations/67183

TMO won the game for England.

So who was the best team on the day Vince.

Ireland have beaten England enough times in the last few years without needing the officials to step in. Why do you need them to do it this time?

Also no mention of the bizarre double movement decision and other strange calls by Poite ...

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

If Ireland were that bothered why did the forwards stand back! They should have cleared Brown out of the stadium. Problem solved.

This hatred of Brown is really starting to irritate me In fact I'm getting sick of this constant "its ok for any other side but wrong if its England" attitude!!!

?

No one else from another team  kicked a player in the head and drew blood over the weekend did they?

Connor should not have held on to the ball....illegal! Works both ways !

i didnt actually see when Connor kicked someone in the head though, please tell me where that happened?

When did you see any England players holding on to the ball in that situation>?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

If Ireland were that bothered why did the forwards stand back! They should have cleared Brown out of the stadium. Problem solved.

This hatred of Brown is really starting to irritate me In fact I'm getting sick of this constant "its ok for any other side but wrong if its England" attitude!!!

?

No one else from another team  kicked a player in the head and drew blood over the weekend did they?

Connor should not have held on to the ball....illegal! Works both ways !

i didnt actually see when Connor kicked someone in the head though, please tell me where that happened?

When did you see any England players holding on to the ball in that situation>?

so you are saying because Connor held onto the ball it was ok to kick him in the head.

Makes total sense, you must be related to Mike Brown

Hey in the past if you were on the wrong side you got shoed to death.

Mike WASNT going for Connors head...he was clearly going for the ball. Connor should have released.

But Irelands forwards should have cleared Brown out.

Anyway we'll agree to disagree...this has been done to death already.

The TMO and The Referree said it was not deliberate, and that it was a penaltie only.

So i cannot see how you can claim Mike Brown is a dirty player.

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

If Ireland were that bothered why did the forwards stand back! They should have cleared Brown out of the stadium. Problem solved.

This hatred of Brown is really starting to irritate me In fact I'm getting sick of this constant "its ok for any other side but wrong if its England" attitude!!!

?

No one else from another team  kicked a player in the head and drew blood over the weekend did they?

Connor should not have held on to the ball....illegal! Works both ways !

i didnt actually see when Connor kicked someone in the head though, please tell me where that happened?

When did you see any England players holding on to the ball in that situation>?

so you are saying because Connor held onto the ball it was ok to kick him in the head.

Makes total sense, you must be related to Mike Brown

Connor was being reckless: (not to mention illegal) head shoulder s and hands in the ruck.
Fortunately it wasn't vs NZ who probably would describe Brown's efforts as pretty pansy.

majesticimperialman wrote:The TMO and The Referree said it was not deliberate, and that it was a penaltie only.

So i cannot see how you can claim Mike Brown is a dirty player.

Because he kicked Conor Murray in the head because he was holding the ball having tried to kick the ball out of his hands. Dangerous and reckless play, and just DIRTY.

Now, when Tom Wood pole axed Liam Williams when we beat England in the RWC, i can accept that was accidental and in open play.

But not this, we all know Brown is a baby, extremely emotional and thinks he is well 'ard, truth is he is a reckless player whose behavior is now verging on extreme danger, he needs to be dealt with, and will be, before he hurts someone properly.

Gwlad wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:The TMO and The Referree said it was not deliberate, and that it was a penaltie only.

So i cannot see how you can claim Mike Brown is a dirty player.

Because he kicked Conor Murray in the head because he was holding the ball having tried to kick the ball out of his hands. Dangerous and reckless play, and just DIRTY.

Now, when Tom Wood pole axed Liam Williams when we beat England in the RWC, i can accept that was accidental and in open play.

But not this, we all know Brown is a baby, extremely emotional and thinks he is well 'ard, truth is he is a reckless player whose behavior is now verging on extreme danger, he needs to be dealt with, and will be, before he hurts someone properly.

You just cannot leave it alone can you.

What are you afraid of?

it was looked at by the TMO and the Referee so their is no more to be said.

Glad. Go and have a sit down. You're becoming hysterical. If Brown is just a bit tougher than your Welsh players you'll just have to get over it.

Gwlad wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:The TMO and The Referree said it was not deliberate, and that it was a penaltie only.

So i cannot see how you can claim Mike Brown is a dirty player.

Because he kicked Conor Murray in the head because he was holding the ball having tried to kick the ball out of his hands. Dangerous and reckless play, and just DIRTY.

Now, when Tom Wood pole axed Liam Williams when we beat England in the RWC, i can accept that was accidental and in open play.

But not this, we all know Brown is a baby, extremely emotional and thinks he is well 'ard, truth is he is a reckless player whose behavior is now verging on extreme danger, he needs to be dealt with, and will be, before he hurts someone properly.

Someone give Mike Brown a warning, the big bad Gwlad is going to deal with him

englandglory4ever wrote:Glad. Go and have a sit down. You're becoming hysterical. If Brown is just a bit tougher than your Welsh players you'll just have to get over it.

Not tougher than Warburton is he?

Got to love this thread. The English have been crying about Wales tackling and blaming the refs for their wins for over 3 weeks, and now when someone points out clear and dangerous foul play by Brown they cry victim, crying is if everyone is against them . As we said right after beating them in the world cup, they don't like it up um.

Dragon boy. If it really was clear and dangerous why did both ref and tmo say it was play on ? It was Care that gave the penalty away not Brown. Let's stick to the facts shall we and not make things up. Anyway shouldn't you be somewhere else bigging up the pansy Welsh players?

mikey_dragon wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Glad. Go and have a sit down. You're becoming hysterical. If Brown is just a bit tougher than your Welsh players you'll just have to get over it.

Not tougher than Warburton is he?

Got to love this thread. The English have been crying about Wales tackling and blaming the refs for their wins for over 3 weeks, and now when someone points out clear and dangerous foul play by Brown they cry victim, crying is if everyone is against them . As we said right after beating them in the world cup, they don't like it up um.

We leave the crying to you Welsh lot.

I am sure AWJ will go around and check under the beds of his welsh teammates just in case Mike Brown is lurking there

How come this England vs Ireland match is now a England vs Wales thread now

Riskysports wrote:How come this England vs Ireland match is now a England vs Wales thread now

I'd like to say I wish I knew but sadly its all too obvious. And whats worse is that we have 2 weeks of this crap to go

Riskysports wrote:How come this England vs Ireland match is now a England vs Wales thread now

Gwlad!

It seems a few Welsh fans making comments here. Based on the Weekend's matches, I can see why the Welsh would rather discuss England and watch them play than the Welsh side. I really missed an opportunity on Friday night to watch some paint dry.

As for Brown - I just assume it was unintentional. But as Chris Ashton has discovered - in sensitive areas (eyes, head, neck), players have a duty of care. We can't complain too much if he's cited.

More importantly:
I thought Ireland were outgunned, but did a great job in defence and in attack when they had the ball. That was the second best performance of the 6N. They don't deserve to be 5th, and I'm sure will win their last two matches.

As for England's players, the papers pretty much gave 6 or 7 to everyone apart from Billy who got a 9. A bit unhelpful.

Just my thoughts, but:
Outstanding: Billy Vunipola. I was worried early on he'd hurt his arm, but a but of pain just get's him going.

Excellent: Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Jack Nowell, Dylan Hartley (creeps in to this group - no mistakes, carried well, led well, made a "try" which was "scored" by Youngs)

Very Good:
Both props.
Robshaw: was pretty unseen, but put in a superb pass for the first try.
Haskell: Looked Excellent, but had his usual brain fart so only v. Good.
Farrell: Controlled the midfield and put some excellent tackles in. However, gave away a few penalties.
Brown: Excellent under the high ball, took his try well. Gave away a penalty and may be cited for being careless.

Good:
Watson: Loses points for flopping over the line like a 1980s prop. He must know where the posts are. Looks very dangerous in attack, but a bit bored in defence. Maybe that's because he can run 100m in 10sec whilst drinking a Pina Colada - but he should look as is if he's trying.
Youngs, Ford, and Joseph: Seemed fine, didn't make mistakes, but nothing too dangerous.

Apologies about no Ireland ratings, but I'll leave that to an Irish fan.

Hard to take the criticism of Brown’s raking seriously when so many posters start or finish their POV with how much they hate him – hardly objective then. And as for the haters – suck it up guys, he’s an excellent player and no-one else could care less whether you like him or not. I guess those Welsh who hate him would rather not face him given we play them next.

As for the incident – I think there was an element of recklessness about it (although not malice IMO). In a perfect world maybe both Brown & Murray would have been YC-ed. I think a citing would set an unfortunate dilemma as both the ref and the TMO found no problem. What next, Hartley’s try could be given? Maybe the citing official could say Haskell’s tackle was borderline and give him his 10 minutes back. If the ref’s no good – bring on the TMO. If neither work get someone else to sort the game out after the final whistle?

Devon Toner - was supposed to soar like an eagle to dominate the Irish and English lineout. Unfortunately that eagle was called eddy...

There's a surprise, another England thread getting derailed by the Welsh cry babies.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

If Ireland were that bothered why did the forwards stand back! They should have cleared Brown out of the stadium. Problem solved.

This hatred of Brown is really starting to irritate me In fact I'm getting sick of this constant "its ok for any other side but wrong if its England" attitude!!!

?

No one else from another team  kicked a player in the head and drew blood over the weekend did they?

Connor should not have held on to the ball....illegal! Works both ways !

So if someone is breaking the laws it's ok to kick them in the head?

GF I think you're getting carried away here.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Glad. Go and have a sit down. You're becoming hysterical. If Brown is just a bit tougher than your Welsh players you'll just have to get over it.

Not tougher than Warburton is he?

Got to love this thread. The English have been crying about Wales tackling and blaming the refs for their wins for over 3 weeks, and now when someone points out clear and dangerous foul play by Brown they cry victim, crying is if everyone is against them . As we said right after beating them in the world cup, they don't like it up um.

We leave the crying to you Welsh lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuSQEsVgnWE

# lip wobble

Regarding Hartley's non-try, I think most of us are of the opinion that Poite's decision was wrong (influenced by the TMO and the slow motion - watch in real time and the drive over comes pretty quickly).

The issue is that the Irish 12 (McCloskey?) is part of the tackle and clamps the ball in to Hartley, and stops it just short of the try line. Both Hartley and McCloskey are 'brought to ground' as defined in the Laws (McCloskey ends up sitting on the ground). As the ball is still within the playing area, McCloskey should by the letter of the Law release immediately and allow Hartley to place the ball - obviously though given that they are virtually on the try line, if he releases the ball Dylan can just place it on the line for the try.

For me, the absolute letter of the law judgement should have been a penalty try - a penalty offence undoubtedly stopping a try being scored. However, that sounds ridiculous for the context of the incident. Can't give a 5m scrum though, as the ball was not held up over the line, indeed I believe was on the ground and subsequently touched down by Ben Youngs after Hartley pushes it back and the England forwards drive over.

I think the decision should have been a penalty to England for the tacker not releasing.

Gwlad wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Gwlad is back to his wind up best anti English sentiments.

Pity as when he is not being an Idiot, he is often insightful in some of his comments, bit like old ghostie, bit without the humour.

I am anti kicking people in the head, which Dirty mike brown just did.

I get pinged for saying i am anti a player getting kicked in the head and claiming it is the act of a dirty player

Its a pretty dirty act to do that but any expression of opinion contrary to the received wisdom of certain English posters is immediately characterized as a WUM depending on who asserts it.

A sad indictment of a self righteous element on this forum who refuse to accept that a player getting kicked repeatedly, including to the head, is dirty play.

It would be refreshing to see some humility in this case from so called rugby fans, no one made anything of Wood knocking Liam Williams into next week in the RWC, but this act is something obviously very different.

Only just had a chance to watch the game.

Blimey England made hard work for themselves. Ireland's work at the ruck was formidable and very smart though, once they actually get a defence coach they'll be in good shape.

England wasted too much ball in the first half, I counted 4 times where Ben Youngs ruined promising positions in the Irish 22 by throwing poor passes or getting caught. This coupled with the Ford/Farrell access trying to go too wide too early at times played into the Irish hands.

Thankfully second half we sorted things long enough to build a lead, then looked very good defending it, even when down a man.

Haskell is a very lucky boy not to get a red for multiple yellows. He needs to buy Care a pint for being the fall guy! I'm

GeordieFalcon wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mike Brown was quite entitled to go for that ball!!!

That's not even true as he came in from the side!

Looked fine to me. Or is it because he had a white shirt on that its all wrong!

We could really do this one individual sequence to death.  

Brown came in from behind the ruck as he should have.  
Brown was going for the ball with his foot, but was reckless.  Looked even worse when Murray pulled the ball in more.    
Murray was holding on and should have been penalised.  
Van Der Flier pushed Brown off by pushing Brown in the nuts.  
Brown is not evil, but he is crazy.  I wouldn't let him near any women and children.
And, why was Care penalised?  I didn't hear why, the commentators I had were pretty poor and didn't get into it.

Care didn't roll away.

Gwlad wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Gwlad is back to his wind up best anti English sentiments.

Pity as when he is not being an Idiot, he is often insightful in some of his comments, bit like old ghostie, bit without the humour.

I am anti kicking people in the head, which Dirty mike brown just did.

I get pinged for saying i am anti a player getting kicked in the head and claiming it is the act of a dirty player

Its a pretty dirty act to do that but any expression of opinion contrary to the received wisdom of certain English posters is immediately characterized as a WUM depending on who asserts it.

A sad indictment of a self righteous element on this forum who refuse to accept that a player getting kicked repeatedly, including to the head,  is dirty play.

It would be refreshing to see some humility in this case from so called rugby fans, no one made anything of Wood knocking Liam Williams into next week in the RWC, but this act is something obviously very different.

Gwlad you're often referred to as a WUM, as am I, for expressing a different opinion. The bits I've bolded here are 100% spot on for a number of English posters on here, and on many other forums I frequent. In the past few weeks I've often expressed an opinion which is opposite to the self-imposed status quo of English righteousness, only to be constantly attacked and accused of being a WUM over it. You will not see an ounce of humility from said posters, and what's worse is that when you refuse to be shouted down by their inferiority complex comments they will resort to spreading lies. Now here they are happy to be crying wolf after spending every weekend of the tournament so far peeing all over Wales' wins and blaming the ref. No humility whatsoever.

I've commented on Jones' big gob a number of times in the past couple weeks and they've tried to pretend nothing has happened. Yesterday, on the eve of this match BOD echoed my sentiments , since then they've been a little quiet on that front.

I'll finish by saying that I don't think this about all England fans, and respect their clubs and international team, who yesterday achieved a good win over Ireland. If they beat Wales in their next match then I'll be one of the first to congratulate them and do my best to avoid some of their gloating, humility-lacking 'fans'.

Scottrf wrote:Care didn't roll away.

Thanks. To me, that's a bit of an iffy call. Not sure how Care cold have rolled away.

He couldn't. But I think he took one for the team, as it were

Gotcha.

Poite had a poor game by his standards. The call on Ireland's try yes or no was wrong, he was wrong to penalise Hartley, and I personally would have sent both Murray and Brown to the bin.

Murray's infringement was cynical and Brown's was reckless and clumsy.

Nothing can be taken away from England though, an assures performance and a convincing win.