England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3

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ENGLAND vs  IRELAND

Date: Saturday 27th February 2016
Venue: Twickenham
Kick Off: 16:50 (GMT)
Referee: Romain Poite (FFR)
Asst Refs: Nigel Owens (WRU), Alexandre Ruiz (FFR)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (SARU)
TV Coverage: Live on ITV, RTE, FR2


Head to Head

Played - 119
Wins - 65/47
Draws - 7
Points - 1443/1037


Current Form

England:
W 40-9 v Italy
W 15-9 v Scotland
W 60-3 v Uruguay

Ireland:
L 9-10 v France
D 16-16 v wales
L 20-43 v Argentina


Recent Meetings

05/09/15 England 21 Ireland 13
01/03015 Ireland 19 England 9
22/02/14 England 13 Ireland 10
10/02/13 Ireland 6 England 12
17/03/12 England 30 Ireland 9



Teams

England


1 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 39 caps)
2 Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 68 caps)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 58 caps)
4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 1 cap)
5 George Kruis (Saracens, 12 caps)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 45 caps)
7 James Haskell (Wasps, 64 caps)
8 Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens, 23 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
10 George Ford (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 37 caps)
13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
15 Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 45 caps)
Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens, 5 caps)
17 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 30 caps)
18 Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 44 caps)
20 Jack Clifford (Harlequins, 2 caps)
21 Danny Care (Harlequins, 56 caps)
22 Elliot Daly (Wasps, uncapped)
23 Alex Goode (Saracens, 20 caps)


Ireland


15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 68
14. Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 60
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 17
12. Stuart McCloskey (Ballynahinch/Ulster)*
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 47
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 58
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 44
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 27
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain 91
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 56
4. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster) 36
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 33
6. CJ Stander (Munster) 2
7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) Vice Captain 82

Replacements
16. Richard Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster) 14
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 56
18. Nathan White (Connacht) 10
19. Ultane Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 7
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster) 68
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 27
23. Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster) 22

So Ireland as I thought go with a big midfield..to have a go at our potential lightweight one.

England's pack effort will therefore be crucial in not letting Ireland get front foot ball out to their centres, or they could have a field day. If we can keep them going backwards, it will give Haskell time to get out and help the midfield should they choose to run anyway.

Surprising that England have a more settled backline coming into this one, hopefully Joseph takes some confidence from the second half against Italy. As someone mentioned earlier, I too thought he offered little in the first half against Italy and was did well to get on the end of a couple in the second half, hopefully that will be the spark for him. If not, Daly's on the bench and he's been carving teams apart domestically.

After 10 days of pessimism from Irish fans the leaked team seems to have added some optimism to their ranks.

In the end though I feel it will all come down to which 10 is under the most pressure. If England can get to Sexton (not in the illegal french way) by putting him on the back foot then we should see the sort of controlled win that has been typical of the last 4 1/2 years. However Ireland will be keen to get big runners in fords channel both attackers and defenders and look to replicate last years 6Ns victory.

Will this be the first game Farrell Sr starts his defence job with Ireland?

If so it would be an interesting sub plot for numerous reasons which I don't think I need to elaborate on.

I think one big plus of England's start to the 6 nations campaign has been the defence and as you probably know I've always rated Gustard higher than Farrell Sr. Probably not the only person either!

It's interesting that in the first two games we've seen a contrast in fortunes.

Ireland started strongly vs both Wales and France but didn't finish off the opposition, in contrast England had cagey first 40 mins vs both Scotland and Italy but seemed to be in control of both games as the game went on.

I think England will be confident even if they fall behind because Ireland have struggled so far to hold onto their lead. England might not been the finished article but I think every side in the 6 nations has been more organised than France.

It's not really been mentioned in the England-Ireland build up but English sides have done well vs Irish sides in the ERCC this season. This might not reflect on the scoreline but it could give a psychological boost. It's been a rarity for English sides to do so well against Irish sides like they have this season.

Will be interesting to see

McCloskey has been very impressive in the Pro12 and Europe this year, if he brings his carrying and offloads to international level he will have success against a small midfield.

Henshaw has never looked right as a 12 to me, his success has been at the high ball game etc, I'm not sure he wouldn't do better at full back

Don't know much about Van der Flier, but what a name for an openside!

Pot Hale wrote:As stated above, rumour mill has this Ireland team for Saturday's match against England.

Payne unlikely to recover which would allow Stu McCloskey to earn his first cap at inside centre and move Henshaw to his more natural position at outside.

McCarthy's loss through injury gives another possible new cap to Connacht's Ultan Dillane, most likely on the bench with Donncha Ryan starting alongside Toner.

Tommy O'Donnell, the Munster open-side could give way to a third newbie, Leinster's young Josh van der Flier.

Earls in for the injured D Kearney. Ross and Healy recovered from injury.

If this comes to pass, it would make for a refreshing change in the back line. And a bit more solidity up front in the scrum.


15 Rob Kearney (Leinster)
14 Andrew Trimble (Ulster)
13 Robbie Henshaw (Connacht)
12 Stuart McCloskey (Ulster)
11 Keith Earls (Munster)
10 Johnny Sexton (Leinster)
9 Conor Murray (Munster)
1 Jack McGrath (Leinster)
2 Rory Best (Ulster, capt)
3 Mike Ross (Leinster)
4 Donnacha Ryan (Munster)
5 Devin Toner (Leinster)
6 C J Stander (Munster)
7 Josh van der Flier (Leinster)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster)

Replacements: R Strauss (Leinster), C Healy (Leinster), N White (Connacht), U Dillane (Connacht), R Ruddock (Leinster), E Reddan (Leinster), I Madigan (Leinster), S Zebo (Munster).

Looking forward to this one.

Could be a cracking match-up with hopefully a few tries from both sides.

The one SportsJOE says is leaked has Paddy Jackson on the bench and Madigan out of the 23.

BBC says Itoje will start

I hope McCloskey is in there!

For anyone unacquainted with him here's a wee clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CIoFDnxyy0

lostinwales wrote:BBC says Itoje will start

Can someone pop round to check on beshocked?

BamBam wrote:

lostinwales wrote:BBC says Itoje will start

Can someone pop round to check on beshocked?

I wouldn't want to interrupt him

England team announced.

Marler
Hartley
Cole
Kruis
Itoje
Robshaw
Billy
Haskell
Young
Ford
Watson
Farrer
JJ
Now ell
Brown

5/3 split on bench with Daly there

It will be very interesting to see how Itoje goes against a good line out. ...despite Ireland 's injuries they will still be strong.

Full team

15. Mike Brown 14. Anthony Watson 13. Jonathan Joseph 12. Owen Farrell 11. Jack Nowell 10. George Ford 9. Ben Youngs 1. Joe Marler 2. Dylan Hartley (c) 3. Dan Cole 4. Maro Itoje 5. George Kruis 6. Chris Robshaw 7. James Haskell 8. Billy Vunipola

Replacements: 16. Jamie George 17. Mako Vunipola 18. Paul Hill 19. Courtney Lawes 20. Jack Clifford 21. Danny Care 22. Elliot Daly 23. Alex Goode

So Launchbury out, Itoje in (injury)
Marler swaps with Mako
Daly takes Itoje's place on the bench (in a way...)

A few (full) debuts in the game then just to make it even more interesting!

If I was going to say that Itoje has one weakness it's that he can sometimes be a bit enthusiastic/zealous which can lead to him giving away a penalty or two. It can be a blessing because he's made a lot of turnovers this season but of course the double edged sword is higher chance of being pinged by the ref.

If he does indeed start like all the England guys he'll need to keep the penalty count low.

Of course it's obvious - but England's penalty count was high in the first half vs both Italy and Scotland.

Ireland haven't been at their best in the last few months but Sexton is still a very good 10. If we give him cheap opportunities he'll take them.

Ireland didn't quite play the conditions against France properly in my opinion.

hugehandoff to be honest I don't think Best will be too pleased of facing Kruis and Itoje so it can work both ways.

Best has had his wobbles. I think England can attack the Irish lineout too.

When are Ireland set to name their side?

beshocked wrote:Will this be the first game Farrell Sr starts his defence job with Ireland?

If so it would be an interesting sub plot for numerous reasons which I don't think I need to elaborate on.

No - his contract means he can't take up Ireland role until after Six Nations. He will be involved for SA tour.

BamBam wrote:When are Ireland set to name their side?

Usual is around 1pm - irish rugby.ie

quite pleased to see the Sarries lock combination in action. Sarries have been strong in the line-out with those two, both in securing their own ball and in disrupting the opposition's (one of Itoje's strengths I feel), so will be interesting to see how they go against an Irish line-out that looks strong on paper.

Pot Hale wrote:

beshocked wrote:Will this be the first game Farrell Sr starts his defence job with Ireland?

If so it would be an interesting sub plot for numerous reasons which I don't think I need to elaborate on.

No - his contract means he can't take up Ireland role until after Six Nations.  He will be involved for SA tour.

Pot Hale Shame I am a bit disappointed to be honest. Would have added more spice.

Well, im very aware of the challenge Ireland will bring on Saturday....however I think we will ask a few questions of them as well.

Certainly its going to be one physical battle!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well, im very aware of the challenge Ireland will bring on Saturday....however I think we will ask a few questions of them as well.

Certainly its going to be one physical battle!

Ask a few questions?
I reckon you're more likely to teach a few lessons the way we're going. I am kakking the old pants just thinking about what could happen. I do hope it's a fantastic match, a titanic battle with a close finish.

My gut says us Irish are not going to enjoy it

Im not sure you should be that worried Pete.

We've won solidly. But nothing outstanding. Ireland aren't a bad side...just maybe a bit of colour.

Im expecting a colossal physical match. Be a few sore men after this game.

I got into rugby around 2005. First the first few years we lost to the Irish (7 out of 8?). I always expect us to lose. Regardless of form, potential, or any of the other things were try and base rational judgements on.

Yes.... I'm back from work imposed exile....

Judging by club form, I wouldn't expect to see Manu back this tournament. If Eddie Jones selects him, it would be a gamble, he's clearly not firing on all cylinders.

Is Grey Ghost still here?

Jimpy wrote:Yes.... I'm back from work imposed exile....

Judging by club form, I wouldn't expect to see Manu back this tournament. If Eddie Jones selects him, it would be a gamble, he's clearly not firing on all cylinders.

Is Grey Ghost still here?

Not that we know of. We do have a new complete nutter in the form of dirtyrucker but its funny rather than a wind up. (Funnier when a certain Welsh expat take the posts seriously)

HammerofThunor wrote:I got into rugby around 2005. First the first few years we lost to the Irish (7 out of 8?). I always expect us to lose. Regardless of form, potential, or any of the other things were try and base rational judgements on.

You're lucky, I got into rugby around 1987.

We used to own the wooden spoon.

Carling and co. used to run all over us. I still get surprised when we win anything against anyone.

I used to have to live Grand Slams vicariously through the Scots - 1990 and all that

Don't try and make out England are the underdogs here!

HammerofThunor wrote:I got into rugby around 2005.  First the first few years we lost to the Irish (7 out of 8?).  I always expect us to lose. Regardless of form, potential, or any of the other things were try and base rational judgements on.

I've been into rugby for a lot longer and believe me the Irish dominance was just a blip in an otherwise English dominated contest between the sides. A win against England was a very rare thing and something to be treasured. We looked a the English league back then with nothing short of awe. The likes of Leicester and Bath etc. were rugby gods to us fans of the potato. We could only dream of the provinces standing toe to toe with the English clubs. Things are a lot different now with how we view English rugby. Our clubs can and do stand toe to toe with the English clubs but on the international front I can feel that old historical fear coming back. We look on the match with excitement, the chance to beat the English on their own turf but the fear of what the English can do to us id back. I'm afraid I only see a damn good hiding for us but I'll still hope we can step up a few gears and run you close.

rapidsnowman wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I got into rugby around 2005. First the first few years we lost to the Irish (7 out of 8?). I always expect us to lose. Regardless of form, potential, or any of the other things were try and base rational judgements on.

You're lucky, I got into rugby around 1987.

We used to own the wooden spoon.

Carling and co. used to run all over us. I still get surprised when we win anything against anyone.

I used to have to live Grand Slams vicariously through the Scots - 1990 and all that

Don't try and make out England are the underdogs here!

But we are....

rapidsnowman wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I got into rugby around 2005. First the first few years we lost to the Irish (7 out of 8?). I always expect us to lose. Regardless of form, potential, or any of the other things were try and base rational judgements on.

You're lucky, I got into rugby around 1987.

We used to own the wooden spoon.

Carling and co. used to run all over us. I still get surprised when we win anything against anyone.

I used to have to live Grand Slams vicariously through the Scots - 1990 and all that

Don't try and make out England are the underdogs here!

England are clearly the underdogs. Ireland have won the last two championships. That must make Ireland clear favourites.

Wooohooooo McCloskey starts.
6'3 and 17 stone coming at ya England

Sorry.....excuse that outburst

Woohoooooo Itoje starts
6'5 and 18stone coming at ya Ireland......

Sorry Pete....

OK, you got me

I have to admit I'm quite excited to see the young English talent almost as much as our own.

Right then, first I have met Mr Owen Farrel and he seems a decent bloke and I think he's a pretty good player, not sure he's a 12, but............... I really really want him to try his big swinging I'm a hard man high tackle on McCloskey, and watch him get sat on his ass.

Very excited to see McClosky and Henshaw paired together - never understood why McClosky was overlooked.

The two of them are the definition of a modern centre partnership - powerful, fast, skillfull - a nightmare to deal with.

carpet baboon wrote:Right then, first I have met Mr Owen Farrel and he seems a decent bloke and I think he's a pretty good player, not sure he's a 12,  but............... I really really want him to try his big swinging I'm a hard man high tackle on McCloskey, and watch him get sat on his ass.

Now that'd be worth watching. Young Farrell will only hurt himself if he tries to bully our Stu.
Could this be the biggest centre partnership Irish rugby's ever had? They are two brutes.

I would have been tempted to start Itoje at 6 to give England a strong lineout and really attack Ireland and Best at source. We all know that Ireland and Sexton employ a fantastic kicking game and like to pin the opposition in their own 22 and then get Toner to try and steal the lineout ball. With Itoje at 6 and Lawes starting with Kruis we could have taken the game more to Ireland. Robshaw has done amazingly well in his tackling and defensive work, but I think Ireland would have been more concerned if Itoje started at 6?

Anyone else agree?

Delighted for McCloskey and VDF but can't see past a comfortable England victory here.

We'll be mushed up front by England and the two young boys will be scapegoated in the media, even though they'll be two of our best players on the day.

Front row is too old, backed up by an average/lightweight lock partnership and with no decent carriers in the back row.

Hopefully Frampton can salvage the day by battering Quigg,

OP updated with both teams.

Pretty happy with that selection, only quibble is Jackson left out again but in many ways I'm relieved he's available for Ulster... wrong though that is! More concerned with individual and collective performances than the result- none of this changes anything that's been said regarding our tight five.

hugehandoff wrote:I would have been tempted to start Itoje at 6 to give England a strong lineout and really attack Ireland and Best at source. We all know that Ireland and Sexton employ a fantastic kicking game and like to pin the opposition in their own 22 and then get Toner to try and steal the lineout ball. With Itoje at 6 and Lawes starting with Kruis we could have taken the game more to Ireland. Robshaw has done amazingly well in his tackling and defensive work, but I think Ireland would have been more concerned if Itoje started at 6?

Anyone else agree?

I do not like playing guys out of position, and Itoje has settled as a lock for Saracens. With Haskell at 7 and farrell at 12, Jones obviousley has no issue with out of position players though.

hugehandoff wrote:I would have been tempted to start Itoje at 6 to give England a strong lineout and really attack Ireland and Best at source. We all know that Ireland and Sexton employ a fantastic kicking game and like to pin the opposition in their own 22 and then get Toner to try and steal the lineout ball. With Itoje at 6 and Lawes starting with Kruis we could have taken the game more to Ireland. Robshaw has done amazingly well in his tackling and defensive work, but I think Ireland would have been more concerned if Itoje started at 6?

Anyone else agree?

Nope

Robshaw starts or not at all, and I think is very much the glue that holds the rest of the team together and lets the rest play their game.

I suspect we'll see Clifford coming on for Haskell sometime in the 2nd half. Lawes may or may not depend on how the first choice players are going and may replace Robshaw (with itoje going to 6)

rodders wrote:Delighted for McCloskey and VDF but can't see past a comfortable England victory here.

We'll be mushed up front by England and the two young boys will be scapegoated in the media, even though they'll be two of our best players on the day.

Front row is too old, backed up by an average/lightweight lock partnership and with no decent carriers in the back row.  

Hopefully Frampton can salvage the day by battering Quigg,

Stander?

Pete330v2 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Right then, first I have met Mr Owen Farrel and he seems a decent bloke and I think he's a pretty good player, not sure he's a 12,  but............... I really really want him to try his big swinging I'm a hard man high tackle on McCloskey, and watch him get sat on his ass.

Now that'd be worth watching. Young Farrell will only hurt himself if he tries to bully our Stu.
Could this be the biggest centre partnership Irish rugby's ever had? They are two brutes.

Before the England Scotland match TJ was writing about how Maitland would smash Farrell. Somehow it didn't happen.

I have read many times about how so and so will smash Farrell. It just does not happen either in the AP or internationally. Farrell has his faults, although he has certainly improved in the last year, but being smashed by big centres is not one of them.

lostinwales wrote:

rodders wrote:Delighted for McCloskey and VDF but can't see past a comfortable England victory here.

We'll be mushed up front by England and the two young boys will be scapegoated in the media, even though they'll be two of our best players on the day.

Front row is too old, backed up by an average/lightweight lock partnership and with no decent carriers in the back row.  

Hopefully Frampton can salvage the day by battering Quigg,

Stander?

Oh forgot about old CJ, thanks, Ireland by 20 !

Exiledinborders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Right then, first I have met Mr Owen Farrel and he seems a decent bloke and I think he's a pretty good player, not sure he's a 12,  but............... I really really want him to try his big swinging I'm a hard man high tackle on McCloskey, and watch him get sat on his ass.

Now that'd be worth watching. Young Farrell will only hurt himself if he tries to bully our Stu.
Could this be the biggest centre partnership Irish rugby's ever had? They are two brutes.

Before the England Scotland match TJ was writing about how Maitland would smash Farrell. Somehow it didn't happen.

I have read many times about how so and so will smash Farrell. It just does not happen either in the AP or internationally. Farrell has his faults, although he has certainly improved in the last year, but being smashed by big centres is not one of them.

Is that because he doesn't play at 12 (hardly) for his club? Not likely to face centres too often from 10?

Jimpy wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Right then, first I have met Mr Owen Farrel and he seems a decent bloke and I think he's a pretty good player, not sure he's a 12,  but............... I really really want him to try his big swinging I'm a hard man high tackle on McCloskey, and watch him get sat on his ass.

Now that'd be worth watching. Young Farrell will only hurt himself if he tries to bully our Stu.
Could this be the biggest centre partnership Irish rugby's ever had? They are two brutes.

Before the England Scotland match TJ was writing about how Maitland would smash Farrell. Somehow it didn't happen.

I have read many times about how so and so will smash Farrell. It just does not happen either in the AP or internationally. Farrell has his faults, although he has certainly improved in the last year, but being smashed by big centres is not one of them.

Is that because he doesn't play at 12 (hardly) for his club? Not likely to face centres too often from 10?

Why not? Its the midfield....10's, 12's and 13's will clash LOADS! Its not regimented where 12's run at 12's...13's run at 13's....

It's more to do with having seen big no8s and second row go high on McCloskey and come off seriously second best