We Go Again! The Premier League thread

[Crimey]

First topic message reminder :

This would be a huge day for Leicester if it stays like it is.

[Crimey]

Milner would be in my squad, because of the reason Crimey gave. He covers a few positions. Jack of all trades sort of thing.

I'd rather have Phil Jones - CB, RB, DM. Eric Dier, even better. Milner can play many positions but none well enough to give England an advantage over the opposition - pick the best players for each position and you'll have a good enough squad to go deep in the tournament. Pick players because they're versatile, it's a group stage exit.

Really? Phil Jones? He's been poor for 3 years now and been injured most of the year. His versatility is not even close to Milner's in that he's really bad at two out of three.

Milner this season alone has played in both full back positions and across the midfield both deep and advanced. Whilst you'd ideally want to have the best players per position the number of players per squad means this isn't always possible, particularly if you want to have attacking options off of the bench. Milner's versatility therefore comes really handy as he can fill in any hole off of the bench. He's also rarely injured and has huge amounts of stamina making him ideal for a tournament where you're playing every few days. He's also familiar with much of the likely squad, playing every week with Henderson, Lallana, Clyne and possibly Sturridge and having played with Hart at Manchester City as well as much of the England squad.

In an increasingly young looking squad, having somebody with the versatility and experience of Milner could be really useful. He's not going to start, but neither are Drinkwater or Noble, but I'd still probably take Milner. I think there's a strong case to drop him nationally after this tournament but speaking specifically about this summer, I think Milner should go.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Milner isnt good enough in any of those positions to take. What are you getting out of Milner, really? If he is taking anyone's position in the team then things have gone to hell.

Think about. we should have enough back up players in all areas to not need him. He's not top four Englishman in any role, not even close. Hes not top ten in any position if you ask me

[Azzy]

3 GK
2 RB
2 LB
4 CB
4 WM
4 CM
4 ST

Squad of 23. Pick the best in each position - there's no space for Milner. We shouldn't be wasting a squad space on someone who'll only play if we have two injuries in one position. For example:

3 GK - Hart, Forster, Butland
2 RB - Clyne, Walker
2 LB - Shaw, Baines
4 CB - Cahill, Smalling, Dier, Stones
4 WM - Walcott, Sterling, Lallana, Oxo Cube
4 CM - Henderson, Barkley, Alli, Wilshere/Delph
4 ST - Rooney, Kane, Vardy, Sturridge

I can't see a single player I'd rather take out for James Milner. I know Roy will take him - we all do - but he shouldn't be there. He's not good enough to be in the squad for any single position, on merit (either in terms of ability or recent form).

[Crimey]

Milner has definitely been better this year than Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Wilshere or Delph (neither of whom have played much). Now you could argue you want to take Walcott and Ox because of their pace, but they've not been better, a lot of Arsenal fans are desperate to get rid of both of them. Wilshere hasn't played a game all season and Delph has played 16 games.

I think if you're arguing merit, those four are poor choices. Now I could definitely see the argument in taking the likes of Noble or Drinkwater on merit, but as I've said, I think having somebody who you can bring off the bench for multiple positions is really useful.

The way you speak, you'd only be able to make a tactical change directly with a substitution. I think Milner gives you more flexibility. Let's say you take off Alli and put on Milner who is now playing centrally, but then England concede, you could now take off Clyne put on Vardy and move Milner back to right back. Otherwise you'd have to take off an attacking player for another one, or make two substitutions.

That's why his ability to play in a number of positions is really important and why it has helped Liverpool all season. He allows you to be tactically flexible without having to make a substitution. There isn't actually a lot of players who can do that effectively, certainly not both offensively and defensively.

[Ent]

There's always a flexible player in a squad, lets you take an extra attacker etc.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

There's flexible and there's weakening your options in case of a volcano hitting your best players. The thing is, Milner hasn't been better than either of those two at Arsenal, he's been horrendous, and equally he isn't better than them. Nor suitable in a positional comparison with Walcott.

In fact, our fixation, and it's not one I would note of other countries, on these utility players might be what makes us so tactically rigid. We should be able to play a different system, not put a square peg in a round hole because you can squash him in if you push hard enough.

I think Milner has done an excellent job proving himself this year. He pushed to move to a club where he'd play regularly in the middle. Sadly for him, all it's done is proven he isn't that good.

[Crimey]

He's definitely 100% been better than them two this season. Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott are two of the most criticised players at Arsenal, the fans have lost patience with them. Milner has been consistently 6-7 out of 10 this year. The best you can say of Walcott or Chamberlain is that they occasionally hit 8 or 9 but generally they've been poor.

[westisbest]

Still cant believe Noble has not been capped by England throught his career.

Quality player imo.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I'll give up if we take James blooming Milner to the euros - he's not good enough, being able to play more than one position isn't a good thing, it means you're not good enough to play in your preferred one.

It's not like we won't have backup in all those positions anyways

[Dolphin Ziggler]

He's definitely 100% been better than them two this season. Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott are two of the most criticised players at Arsenal, the fans have lost patience with them. Milner has been consistently 6-7 out of 10 this year. The best you can say of Walcott or Chamberlain is that they occasionally hit 8 or 9 but generally they've been poor.

Think Milner has been abysmal this year, whilst Walcott had spells where he looked like he could be their new number 9, and Oxlade is just injuries rather than ability. Milner would be lucky to have had a performance worthy of a 7

[Ent]

Taking a utility player eg Phil Jones, Milner lets you take an extra winger or forward. It isn't that unusual.

[Crimey]

He's definitely 100% been better than them two this season. Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott are two of the most criticised players at Arsenal, the fans have lost patience with them. Milner has been consistently 6-7 out of 10 this year. The best you can say of Walcott or Chamberlain is that they occasionally hit 8 or 9 but generally they've been poor.

Think Milner has been abysmal this year, whilst Walcott had spells where he looked like he could be their new number 9, and Oxlade is just injuries rather than ability. Milner would be lucky to have had a performance worthy of a 7

That's completely ridiculous then. I was a big Milner critic early on, but I think he's been really good for Klopp. He was fundamental to the result against Manchester City in the league and he's often been one of the best performers this season for Liverpool. He's turned a lot of fan's opinions around after initial disappointment.

Go ask Arsenal fans if they think that about Walcott and they will laugh you off. He's been really poor this year. Oxlade-Chamberlain even worse. I'm at a loss if you genuinely think that Milner has been even close to abysmal this year, he has been at best average. I don't know what Liverpool games you've watched, particularly in the last three months which could point at all to him being bad.

[Mackem]

Morning all. Long time reader / lurker. Very very rarely post.

Sunday's game is huge. I feel who ever looses the game will be relegated. We've flirted with relegation for years now and have read some of you want Sunderland to go down. I just hope that's all we are doing, flirting.

Newcastle changing there manager just before the derby is exactly what we have done a few times over the years and has worked in our favour. I just hope it doesn't do the same for them up the road.

I watched Monday's game against Leicester. Thought they did ok but they need someone to actually take a shot at goal.

I'd take a draw right now.

[lfc91]

As much as it pains me to say it I agree with Dolph on this one.. IMO Milner has been poor overall this season and a real disappointment. Yes he has had a few games where he has turned in a top quality performance but those have been few and far between. Most games I sit there thinking 'apart from high work rate what do you actually bring to the team'. His passing at times has been woeful for someone who claims CM as their preferred/best position. Think he will make the euros squad for England though for the reasons you have outlined, but for Liverpool I still think there are very big improvements required if he wants to remain first team after the summer window...

[Stella]

If Milner started for England, I'd be outraged. In fact I wouldn't pick him in a squad for a friendly but he is an ideal player for a squad going to a competition. From a fans perspective he'll always get some stick but from a players, he'd be a welcome sight if you're one up with 10 minutes left.

[Crimey]

If Milner started for England, I'd be outraged. In fact I wouldn't pick him in a squad for a friendly but he is an ideal player for a squad going to a competition. From a fans perspective he'll always get some stick but from a players, he'd be a welcome sight if you're one up with 10 minutes left.

I agree. He's very, very fit and got great stamina. With games coming thick and fast that's going to be very useful.

[Crimey]

No Liverpool bias here either, I'd rather no Liverpool players were called up, so they could all get a summer's rest and not pick up stupid injuries. I just think for Euro 2016 Milner is a useful option and has had a good enough season to be called up.

I don't think he's been disappointing, maybe at first, but since the New Year he's been really good and effective for Liverpool. He's 100% had a better season than either Walcott or Chamberlain.

Who Scored (not perfect but a decent aggregator) has him as an average rating of 7.14, the 51st best player this year. He's got 5 goals, 7 assists, which is a decent haul.

Walcott is rated as the 216th best player and Chamberlain the 220th. They have ratings of 6.67 and 6.66 respectively. And their combined stats are 5 goals and no assists.

I don't think statistics are perfect, but I do think they're a decent indicator and Milner has 100%, no argument, had a much better season than either Ox or Walcott.

[guildfordbat]

If Milner started for England, I'd be outraged. In fact I wouldn't pick him in a squad for a friendly but he is an ideal player for a squad going to a competition. From a fans perspective he'll always get some stick but from a players, he'd be a welcome sight if you're one up with 10 minutes left.

I believe Stella touches on an important point here although one which is very difficult for us to assess from this distance. When players and especially those who are more likely to only be back-up players are chosen for any sporting tournament lasting (hopefully) a few weeks, it's not just their ability on the pitch that comes into the mix but also their character and approach off it.

I'm probably one of the few here who has seen England win a major international football tournament. I do appreciate the game has changed enormously in the last half-century. In particular, it is now far more of a squad game - there weren't even substitutes back in '66. Nonetheless, lessons can still be learned from the past. Shortly after we won the World Cup, Alf Ramsey gave considerable individual praise to Jimmy Armfield. That was very rare for Alf to do with anyone - when hat-trick hero Hurst bade farewell and said ''See you next time'', the manager replied curtly, ''If selected''! Anyway, Armfield was a member of the squad and reserve defender who never played a single game in the tournament. However, his attitude and help in training and with the players - particularly those like him not being selected - completely won the manager over and, in Ramsey's opinion, contributed to England's victory. Ramsey dubbed him, ''the captain of my reserve team''.

None of the above means Milner should be on the plane for the Euros if he's such a terrible player as Dolph suggests. However, if he is better than that, it perhaps shows there is more to be considered.

[Hero]

I'll give up if we take James blooming Milner to the euros - he's not good enough, being able to play more than one position isn't a good thing, it means you're not good enough to play in your preferred one.

It's not like we won't have backup in all those positions anyways

Philipp Lahm say's hi.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If Milner started for England, I'd be outraged. In fact I wouldn't pick him in a squad for a friendly but he is an ideal player for a squad going to a competition. From a fans perspective he'll always get some stick but from a players, he'd be a welcome sight if you're one up with 10 minutes left.

I believe Stella touches on an important point here although one which is very difficult for us to assess from this distance. When players and especially those who are more likely to only be back-up players are chosen for any sporting tournament lasting (hopefully) a few weeks, it's not just their ability on the pitch that comes into the mix but also their character and approach off it.

I'm probably one of the few here who has seen England win a major international football tournament. I do appreciate the game has changed enormously in the last half-century. In particular, it is now far more of a squad game - there weren't even substitutes back in '66. Nonetheless, lessons can still be learned from the past. Shortly after we won the World Cup, Alf Ramsey gave considerable individual praise to Jimmy Armfield. That was very rare for Alf to do with anyone - when hat-trick hero Hurst bade farewell and said ''See you next time'', the manager replied curtly, ''If selected''! Anyway, Armfield was a member of the squad and reserve defender who never played a single game in the tournament. However, his attitude and help in training and with the players - particularly those like him not being selected - completely won the manager over and, in Ramsey's opinion, contributed to England's victory. Ramsey dubbed him, ''the captain of my reserve team''.

None of the above means Milner should be on the plane for the Euros if he's such a terrible player as Dolph suggests. However, if he is better than that, it perhaps shows there is more to be considered.

Indeed, Gilly, but that is then to say that none of the others would be too. Considering Milner has long been a part of failing squads, maybe his character is not what is required. Maybe we need players who are hungrier to come in and take places, a kind of hunger that maybe helped Hurst fill Greaves' boots in a way none would have imagined.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

No Liverpool bias here either, I'd rather no Liverpool players were called up, so they could all get a summer's rest and not pick up stupid injuries. I just think for Euro 2016 Milner is a useful option and has had a good enough season to be called up.

I don't think he's been disappointing, maybe at first, but since the New Year he's been really good and effective for Liverpool. He's 100% had a better season than either Walcott or Chamberlain.

Who Scored (not perfect but a decent aggregator) has him as an average rating of 7.14, the 51st best player this year. He's got 5 goals, 7 assists, which is a decent haul.

Walcott is rated as the 216th best player and Chamberlain the 220th. They have ratings of 6.67 and 6.66 respectively. And their combined stats are 5 goals and no assists.

I don't think statistics are perfect, but I do think they're a decent indicator and Milner has 100%, no argument, had a much better season than either Ox or Walcott.

You're looking at more impactful players. Walcott is going to go far more up and down, but that is much more a given of the role. But are you telling me you have a space for a winger-cum-forward and you take Milner over Theo? I think not.

The fact of the matter is that Milner has dropped down to a team he should be one of the better players in, had regular time in his preferred position and you've given him an at best average rating this season. I think that distills the myth of Milner a touch if he is only average in his best role.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Equally, neither games coming thick and fast or the 10 minutes to go argument hold muster.

The subs won't have played as many games so won't be stuck in the thick and fast tiring fear anyway. And with 10 minutes there is nothing to say Milner is a better option than, say, Eric Dier. Considering all 23 players are in a matchday squad, there should never be a time when you have one sub left and plump for Milner, thus he is a waste of space.

I would certainly hope Eric Dier has killed the present England career of Phil Jones, as Dier is better in all three positions Jones plays.

But Milner for England? Would be an indictment of Woy's England and a sign that the name on the badge gets you picked.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'll give up if we take James blooming Milner to the euros - he's not good enough, being able to play more than one position isn't a good thing, it means you're not good enough to play in your preferred one.

It's not like we won't have backup in all those positions anyways

Philipp Lahm say's hi.

Although Lahm himself didnt know he could until Pep made him!

[Hero]

He was both the best left and right back in the world before Pep.

[Guest]

I'll give up if we take James blooming Milner to the euros - he's not good enough, being able to play more than one position isn't a good thing, it means you're not good enough to play in your preferred one.

It's not like we won't have backup in all those positions anyways

Philipp Lahm say's hi.

Although Lahm himself didnt know he could until Pep made him!

Whereas Milner knows he can play in a number of positions which arguably makes him better and smarter than Lahm (tongue in cheek comment - don't start)

[Duty281]

If Milner started for England, I'd be outraged. In fact I wouldn't pick him in a squad for a friendly but he is an ideal player for a squad going to a competition. From a fans perspective he'll always get some stick but from a players, he'd be a welcome sight if you're one up with 10 minutes left.

I believe Stella touches on an important point here although one which is very difficult for us to assess from this distance. When players and especially those who are more likely to only be back-up players are chosen for any sporting tournament lasting (hopefully) a few weeks, it's not just their ability on the pitch that comes into the mix but also their character and approach off it.

I'm probably one of the few here who has seen England win a major international football tournament. I do appreciate the game has changed enormously in the last half-century. In particular, it is now far more of a squad game - there weren't even substitutes back in '66. Nonetheless, lessons can still be learned from the past. Shortly after we won the World Cup, Alf Ramsey gave considerable individual praise to Jimmy Armfield. That was very rare for Alf to do with anyone - when hat-trick hero Hurst bade farewell and said ''See you next time'', the manager replied curtly, ''If selected''! Anyway, Armfield was a member of the squad and reserve defender who never played a single game in the tournament. However, his attitude and help in training and with the players - particularly those like him not being selected - completely won the manager over and, in Ramsey's opinion, contributed to England's victory. Ramsey dubbed him, ''the captain of my reserve team''.

None of the above means Milner should be on the plane for the Euros if he's such a terrible player as Dolph suggests. However, if he is better than that, it perhaps shows there is more to be considered.

Indeed, Gilly, but that is then to say that none of the others would be too. Considering Milner has long been a part of failing squads, maybe his character is not what is required. Maybe we need players who are hungrier to come in and take places, a kind of hunger that maybe helped Hurst fill Greaves' boots in a way none would have imagined.

Curiously, when I use the same argument to say why Rooney shouldn't be selected this summer, you're fundamentally against it.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

He was both the best left and right back in the world before Pep.

I meant really more on fullback and holding midfield. Not sure he was the best on both sides though

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If Milner started for England, I'd be outraged. In fact I wouldn't pick him in a squad for a friendly but he is an ideal player for a squad going to a competition. From a fans perspective he'll always get some stick but from a players, he'd be a welcome sight if you're one up with 10 minutes left.

I believe Stella touches on an important point here although one which is very difficult for us to assess from this distance. When players and especially those who are more likely to only be back-up players are chosen for any sporting tournament lasting (hopefully) a few weeks, it's not just their ability on the pitch that comes into the mix but also their character and approach off it.

I'm probably one of the few here who has seen England win a major international football tournament. I do appreciate the game has changed enormously in the last half-century. In particular, it is now far more of a squad game - there weren't even substitutes back in '66. Nonetheless, lessons can still be learned from the past. Shortly after we won the World Cup, Alf Ramsey gave considerable individual praise to Jimmy Armfield. That was very rare for Alf to do with anyone - when hat-trick hero Hurst bade farewell and said ''See you next time'', the manager replied curtly, ''If selected''! Anyway, Armfield was a member of the squad and reserve defender who never played a single game in the tournament. However, his attitude and help in training and with the players - particularly those like him not being selected - completely won the manager over and, in Ramsey's opinion, contributed to England's victory. Ramsey dubbed him, ''the captain of my reserve team''.

None of the above means Milner should be on the plane for the Euros if he's such a terrible player as Dolph suggests. However, if he is better than that, it perhaps shows there is more to be considered.

Indeed, Gilly, but that is then to say that none of the others would be too. Considering Milner has long been a part of failing squads, maybe his character is not what is required. Maybe we need players who are hungrier to come in and take places, a kind of hunger that maybe helped Hurst fill Greaves' boots in a way none would have imagined.

Curiously, when I use the same argument to say why Rooney shouldn't be selected this summer, you're fundamentally against it.

Different argument, starter and character based squad player

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I'll give up if we take James blooming Milner to the euros - he's not good enough, being able to play more than one position isn't a good thing, it means you're not good enough to play in your preferred one.

It's not like we won't have backup in all those positions anyways

Philipp Lahm say's hi.

There's always an outlier or two

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'll give up if we take James blooming Milner to the euros - he's not good enough, being able to play more than one position isn't a good thing, it means you're not good enough to play in your preferred one.

It's not like we won't have backup in all those positions anyways

Philipp Lahm say's hi.

Whilst I'm here - say's? I hope you don't help with the marking!

[Crimey]

No Liverpool bias here either, I'd rather no Liverpool players were called up, so they could all get a summer's rest and not pick up stupid injuries. I just think for Euro 2016 Milner is a useful option and has had a good enough season to be called up.

I don't think he's been disappointing, maybe at first, but since the New Year he's been really good and effective for Liverpool. He's 100% had a better season than either Walcott or Chamberlain.

Who Scored (not perfect but a decent aggregator) has him as an average rating of 7.14, the 51st best player this year. He's got 5 goals, 7 assists, which is a decent haul.

Walcott is rated as the 216th best player and Chamberlain the 220th. They have ratings of 6.67 and 6.66 respectively. And their combined stats are 5 goals and no assists.

I don't think statistics are perfect, but I do think they're a decent indicator and Milner has 100%, no argument, had a much better season than either Ox or Walcott.

You're looking at more impactful players. Walcott is going to go far more up and down, but that is much more a given of the role. But are you telling me you have a space for a winger-cum-forward and you take Milner over Theo? I think not.

The fact of the matter is that Milner has dropped down to a team he should be one of the better players in, had regular time in his preferred position and you've given him an at best average rating this season. I think that distills the myth of Milner a touch if he is only average in his best role.

Walcott has been very poor this year, I certainly wouldn't swap Milner for Walcott at Liverpool and neither for England. For somebody with bundles of pace, he sure is afraid of running at defenders. He had, maybe still does, a lot of potential, but he's been disappointing for years now. Milner may not be a stand out, but he's reliable. In the suggested squad that had Walcott and Ox ahead of Milner, I'd probably replace Ox first, he can play similar roles to Milner, but Milner has been better this season and can play more roles.

Except Milner hasn't even had a standard role this season, I think he's been very good across a number of roles. He's played centrally both deeper and advanced, he's played out wide, sometimes high up the pitch, sometimes in a more traditional Beckham space, he's even played in both full back positions at time. He hasn't been playing in one position at all this season and the fact that you think he has, suggests you haven't been watching much of Liverpool at all this season. I think it's very hard to tell with Milner whether he's not good enough to play centrally or he's just too consistent across a number of positions that he's a much more useful tool to be deployed in a number of positions. I'd go with the latter. I think he could start centrally for Liverpool, probably not for England, but he wouldn't consistently start. I do think however he's a favourite of managers because he allows tactical flexibility without having to make a substitution. Klopp is a big fan of Milner because if he wants to change the game he knows he can rely on Milner to play pretty much anywhere. I think that's what would make him useful to the England squad, he can cover a number of positions meaning he offers more tactical flexibility both in game and when picking line ups then Danny Drinkwater, Theo Walcott or Mark Noble.

I think his main competition is Oxlade-Chamberlain for that kind of squad role. Ox can also play all across the midfield, both deeper and more advanced. He's probably a more attacking and more pacey option. If you had asked me at the start of the season who'd I pick, I'd have said Oxlade-Chamberlain. But if you ask me now, I choose Milner absolutely 100%. He's had a good season, he's played well for Liverpool in new surroundings, been a decent vice-captain and is a favourite of Klopp, whose judgement of players I trust. Oxlade-Chamberlain on the other hand has probably fallen further from the first team, has been really poor when giving the opportunities and hasn't developed as quickly as hoped. He's also not got any qualities that suggests he'd make a good leader, where as Milner does. He also doesn't offer any defensive cover, whereas I think one of the useful things about Milner is he can drop into full back, allowing an attacking change when chasing a game.

[Azzy]

Squad of 23. Pick the best in each position - there's no space for Milner. We shouldn't be wasting a squad space on someone who'll only play if we have two injuries in one position. For example:

3 GK - Hart, Forster, Butland
2 RB - Clyne, Walker
2 LB - Shaw, Baines
4 CB - Cahill, Smalling, Dier, Stones
4 WM - Walcott, Sterling, Lallana, Oxo Cube
4 CM - Henderson, Barkley, Alli, Wilshere/Delph
4 ST - Rooney, Kane, Vardy, Sturridge

I can't see a single player I'd rather take out for James Milner. I know Roy will take him - we all do - but he shouldn't be there. He's not good enough to be in the squad for any single position, on merit (either in terms of ability or recent form).

Even yesterday, I said we should take Eric Dier as our utility player. He's absolutely one of our top 4 CBs, would likely be our best DM (or second anyway) and can play RB well. Milner's only additional positions would be LM/RM, but we tried and failed with Gerrard and Scholes, so why would we put Milner there?

Eric Dier is a much better player than Milner, and you could argue is a starting XI player this summer. Milner simply has no place in that squad.

Roy will still pick Wilshere, Welbeck and Milner though. He's a Grade A idiot, and that's coming from a West Brom fan who loved him at The Hawthorns.

[Stella]

Welbeck deserves a place given his England record.

[Crimey]

Squad of 23. Pick the best in each position - there's no space for Milner. We shouldn't be wasting a squad space on someone who'll only play if we have two injuries in one position. For example:

3 GK - Hart, Forster, Butland
2 RB - Clyne, Walker
2 LB - Shaw, Baines
4 CB - Cahill, Smalling, Dier, Stones
4 WM - Walcott, Sterling, Lallana, Oxo Cube
4 CM - Henderson, Barkley, Alli, Wilshere/Delph
4 ST - Rooney, Kane, Vardy, Sturridge

I can't see a single player I'd rather take out for James Milner. I know Roy will take him - we all do - but he shouldn't be there. He's not good enough to be in the squad for any single position, on merit (either in terms of ability or recent form).

Even yesterday, I said we should take Eric Dier as our utility player. He's absolutely one of our top 4 CBs, would likely be our best DM (or second anyway) and can play RB well. Milner's only additional positions would be LM/RM, but we tried and failed with Gerrard and Scholes, so why would we put Milner there?

Eric Dier is a much better player than Milner, and you could argue is a starting XI player this summer. Milner simply has no place in that squad.

Roy will still pick Wilshere, Welbeck and Milner though. He's a Grade A idiot, and that's coming from a West Brom fan who loved him at The Hawthorns.

You can take both Dier and Milner though. Walcott and Ox are the ones in that squad who I'd question. Certainly based on this season; both have been very poor and offer nothing much else other than pace to the squad.

Except Milner has played in both full back positions and is a lot more natural as a wide player than Gerrard or Scholes ever were. He can play pretty much anywhere in the midfield, both advanced and a bit deeper.

[Azzy]

When has James Milner ever played LB for England? And why would we ever need him to, with Shaw, Baines and Clyne already in the squad?

Walcott and OxoCube are game changers - their pace and directness is what puts opposition defences on edge. Milner won't do that, he'll sit deeper; we already have Alli, Henderson, Wilshere, Delph, Carrick, Shelvey etc who can do that.

You just cannot justify taking Milner over any of those players - even Walcott with his atrocious finishing, or OxoCube with his lack of confidence. Both suffer under Wenger, and both look like moving on from Arsenal. Unless you're planning to play Milner at RM (sheer madness), he has no place in the team regardless of an improved statistical season (which you'd expect based on his increased time in the side).

[Crimey]

When has James Milner ever played LB for England? And why would we ever need him to, with Shaw, Baines and Clyne already in the squad?

Walcott and OxoCube are game changers - their pace and directness is what puts opposition defences on edge. Milner won't do that, he'll sit deeper; we already have Alli, Henderson, Wilshere, Delph, Carrick, Shelvey etc who can do that.

You just cannot justify taking Milner over any of those players - even Walcott with his atrocious finishing, or OxoCube with his lack of confidence. Both suffer under Wenger, and both look like moving on from Arsenal. Unless you're planning to play Milner at RM (sheer madness), he has no place in the team regardless of an improved statistical season (which you'd expect based on his increased time in the side).

I don't think Milner should start at all, but neither should Ox or Walcott. Their pace and directness SHOULD put opposition on the edge, but in the end all they do is run into a dead end and lose the ball. I've got no confidence in either to change a game. They are pure potential and particularly with Walcott, they are running out of time to live up to it. Milner is hardly a player who sits back and dictates from deep, he presses high up the pitch and dribbles forward.

I would much rather have Milner in the squad than either of those players whose form and quality has dropped off of a proverbial cliff in the last couple of years. I don't have a particular place in mind for Milner, that's the point, I think he's useful in a squad of 23 because he can cover many positions and crucially allows tactical flexibility MID-GAME. Is he going to start at left back? Of course not. Where Milner can be incredibly useful and has proved this for Liverpool this year is when you need to make a change mid-game.

Let's say England are winning 1-0, they need to win to progress from the group, everything is comfortable, it's 70 mins, the other side has not threatened for a while then bam 1-1, England make a mistake, they're now drawing and on the verge of going out, they have one substitution left. Milner is already on the pitch. Having Milner there would allow Hodgson to take off say Leighton Baines or Nathaniel Clyne, put on Jamie Vardy or Harry Kane or another attacking player, then go for it to get the goal to put them through. Let's say now they do score, it's 2-1, but there's still 10-15 mins left and no subs left. Milner can now slot in effectively in the full back position, where normally you'd need to make another substitution. Without Milner, either Hodgson needs two subs or he would have had to take off an attacking player for a new attacking player.

[Guest]

I honestly can't believe how much finger energy has gone in, to debating such a non-entity, in terms of England's plans this summer. Milner is jurassic nowadays, we've entered the new age, it's time people started focusing on what is actually going to start at the Euro's & not on someone who will be, at best, warming the bench, if he's lucky.

[Azzy]

When has James Milner ever played LB for England? And why would we ever need him to, with Shaw, Baines and Clyne already in the squad?

Walcott and OxoCube are game changers - their pace and directness is what puts opposition defences on edge. Milner won't do that, he'll sit deeper; we already have Alli, Henderson, Wilshere, Delph, Carrick, Shelvey etc who can do that.

You just cannot justify taking Milner over any of those players - even Walcott with his atrocious finishing, or OxoCube with his lack of confidence. Both suffer under Wenger, and both look like moving on from Arsenal. Unless you're planning to play Milner at RM (sheer madness), he has no place in the team regardless of an improved statistical season (which you'd expect based on his increased time in the side).

I don't think Milner should start at all, but neither should Ox or Walcott. Their pace and directness SHOULD put opposition on the edge, but in the end all they do is run into a dead end and lose the ball. I've got no confidence in either to change a game. They are pure potential and particularly with Walcott, they are running out of time to live up to it. Milner is hardly a player who sits back and dictates from deep, he presses high up the pitch and dribbles forward.

I would much rather have Milner in the squad than either of those players whose form and quality has dropped off of a proverbial cliff in the last couple of years. I don't have a particular place in mind for Milner, that's the point, I think he's useful in a squad of 23 because he can cover many positions and crucially allows tactical flexibility MID-GAME. Is he going to start at left back? Of course not. Where Milner can be incredibly useful and has proved this for Liverpool this year is when you need to make a change mid-game.

Let's say England are winning 1-0, they need to win to progress from the group, everything is comfortable, it's 70 mins, the other side has not threatened for a while then bam 1-1, England make a mistake, they're now drawing and on the verge of going out, they have one substitution left. Milner is already on the pitch. Having Milner there would allow Hodgson to take off say Leighton Baines or Nathaniel Clyne, put on Jamie Vardy or Harry Kane or another attacking player, then go for it to get the goal to put them through. Let's say now they do score, it's 2-1, but there's still 10-15 mins left and no subs left. Milner can now slot in effectively in the full back position, where normally you'd need to make another substitution. Without Milner, either Hodgson needs two subs or he would have had to take off an attacking player for a new attacking player.

Milner is likely the reason we've conceded the equaliser - he would be the weak link in the England team no matter which position he played. I'd rather have Dier already on the pitch, move Clyne to LB and play Dier at RB to allow Baines or Clyne to come off for Vardy (Kane will be starting no matter Rooney's fitness levels).

I'm going to stop discussing Milner now as almost everyone agrees Roy shouldn't take him to the Euros. I'll be honest, the fact that Liverpool have used him so much this season should shame the Liverpool board. They'll never get back to the pinnacle of English football with the likes of Milner starting 30+ games each season.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Take Milner over Theo? Give over!

There is no need for Milner. What the hell has to happen for Milner to get on the pitch? Your argument seems to be he'd be good if he were brought on as a sub in case we get another injury and he can cover there. That would be the most depressing bit of management in history. "I have two better players in central midfield and another sub, but James should come on cos if my right back gets injured I can move him there without wasting a sub on a right back. Safety first"

[Stella]

I'm pretty sure Roy will take Milner. How many can we take, btw?

[Azzy]

Milner is one of Roy's core players and will go, no matter what we or any England fans, say. He should categorically NOT be selected however. I would rather see Danny Drinkwater picked, and I don't think he's good enough for an England C side.

[Crimey]

I don't rate Theo Walcott, he's as good now as he was 5 years ago, he hasn't improved at all as a footballer, he's a poor finisher, poor passer and doesn't even make use of his pace as much as he should. I wouldn't swap Milner for Walcott for Liverpool and definitely don't think Walcott has done nearly enough this year or the previous three to be in the England squad. I actually think Walcott being called up would be the best example of a player being called up for the team he played for rather than how he plays. If he was at West Ham or Southampton or Stoke he'd not be considered.

My argument is that Milner 1) has definitely, 100% had a better season than Walcott or Chamberlain, so if they're the alternatives then yes, on merit Milner deserves to be there over them and 2) having players who can play across multiple positions is incredibly important and allows the manager greater tactical flexibility. It means he can change formations and shape without using a substitution.

I think it's evidence of tactical maturity for a footballer to be able to play multiple positions and for a football team to utilise these. I think it's ridiculous to take too many players who are only useful in one position and generally football is moving away from players who are specialists. I'm not suggesting Milner is going to be starting every game or is going to be a crucial part of the squad. Drinkwater, Noble, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain are not going to be starters or a crucial part of the squad so I think Milner is a better option for the squad than any of them because he's been involved heavily therefore is familiar with the squad and the management, it's silly to change so close to the major tournament with only a couple of friendlies in between, he's tactically flexible which gives the manager more options and means you cover a variety of positions and roles with only one squad spot and I think he's had a better season than the latter two.

[Stella]

Milner is one of Roy's core players and will go, no matter what we or any England fans, say. He should categorically NOT be selected however. I would rather see Danny Drinkwater picked, and I don't think he's good enough for an England C side.

You're still discussing him!!!

[Azzy]

Jack of all trades, master of none. I want 23 masters.

Let's think of an alternative subject. Jack Wilshere, yay or nay?

[Stella]

He'll be injured. Hart or Butland to start?

[Crimey]

Jack of all trades, master of none. I want 23 masters.

Let's think of an alternative subject. Jack Wilshere, yay or nay?

I think that's an outdated idea though, football is moving closer to Total Football than ever before, players should be able to be confident and competent in a number of positions.

I don't think Wilshere should be selected, he's been injured all year, even if he gets three months under his belt now it's hardly ideal. It's a shame, but he can't be trusted fitness wise. I think Sturridge is still a big question and he's been fit for a couple of months now and even if he's fit all the way until June there should be question marks, so Wilshere for me is a no.


I also think Delli Alli is an improvement on Wilshere anyway.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Milner and total football have become part of the discussion. Shoot me now

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

He'll be injured. Hart or Butland to start?

I'd go Butland - but it'll 100% be Hart

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Oh and in actual premier league news, Nathan Redmond is injured for 6 weeks

Pretty much confirming our relegation

[Crimey]

I'll be honest, the fact that Liverpool have used him so much this season should shame the Liverpool board. They'll never get back to the pinnacle of English football with the likes of Milner starting 30+ games each season.

This is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Manchester City had no problem winning two league titles with Milner in their squad and playing plenty of games, let us not forget City tried to keep him and he chose to leave. I actually think City would be in a better position if Milner was them right now.

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