France v England - grand slam game

Discuss

ENGLAND TEAM TO PLAY FRANCE

15. Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 47 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 20 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 39 caps)
11. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
9. Danny Care (Harlequins, 57 caps)

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 31 caps)
2. Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 70 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 60 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 3 caps)
5. George Kruis (Saracens, 14 caps)
6. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 47 caps)
7. James Haskell (Wasps, 66 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens, 25 caps)

Replacements
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 2 cap)
17. Joe Marler (Harlequins 41 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints 16 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 31 caps)
20. Jack Clifford (Harlequins, 4 caps)
21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 56 caps)
22. Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
23. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 2 cap)

Pretty worried about this game.

Not because of that old cliche about the French. But more because it's totally England's hands and that adds pressure.

I think we more than match them up front. They have some tasty backs but if we don't let them have possession we can win comfortably.4

Do you think they'll have any time to play rugby what with all the swearing and fighting?

lostinwales wrote:Do you think they'll have any time to play rugby what with all the swearing and fighting?

God yeah - all those English 'hot heads' in the team just one tantrum away from a red card....

Thankfully for France, any trace of racism may well be expunged from the team today, so we haven't got to worry about an English player calling opposition players 'Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys'.

I'm also a bit worried that we are going into the game with the Champioship already sown up. Hope the players can maintain the focus and intensity they showed for 60 minutes against Wales, as I think that will be far too much for this French side. However, if we do drop the level, France could do the same as Wales did in the last 15.

I'd make as few changes as possible to the side from last week - obviously I think we'll be lucky to have Marler available, so maybe Mullan to start and Make to retain his role as big impact sub. Other than that, I'm still not sold on the idea of having both Manu and Daly on the bench, as they seem to be covering the same thing. Having said that, England have only retained 26 players this week, which is the 23 from the Wales game plus Alex Goode, Mullan (covering for if Marler cops a ban) and Taylor (Hartley missed training yesterday), so I think Jones may be thinking of keeping things the same.

Hopefully, we won't be in a position where we lose defensive shape like we did towards the end last week - it's odd how the sin-binning of a prop ends up with you losing a flanker and key defensive organiser (not helped by Manu being at 12, where he has little experience of the defensive system).

If Scotland can win comfortably, England can win comfortably. All the best lads.

Cheers RR

Re: Manu at 12 last week. There seem to be a few concerns about what he did but I haven't seen anything that substantiates that view (yet). I thought he did as well as he could given we hardly held onto the ball and of course he tackled North into touch at the end (well that's what the AF said and who are we to argue with authority?)

It is possible that Farrell was doing more work organising the defense when playing at 12 and for good reasons wasn't doing so from 10, but I am not sure what else was going on.

Otherwise there was a real buzz when Manu came on although it was always unlikely that he'd have an instant impact.

1990 - England lose to Scotland at Murrayfield
1999 - England lose to Wales at Wembley
2000 - England lose to Scotland at Murrayfield
2001 - England lose to Ireland at Lansdowne Road
2011 - England lose to Ireland at the Aviva Stadium
2013 - England lose to Wales at the Millennium Stadium

... bit of a history of "Losing" Grand Slam games away from Twickers...

But not this time, I think..

Good Luck..

I'll type it clear. Still bugs me the 99 game is counted as a loss.

I think any player going in to this game with a "its already done" attitude needs their heads read!

A grand slam on offer, a summer tour to Australia that will certainly have a huge emphasis on team selection etc for the next 4 years....every player should be pulling up trees to put in top class performances!

Eddie Jones will have them exceptionally well prepared and drilled.

Plus its France in France. If you cant get pumped up for La Marseillaise, a huge partisan crowd etc etc then they shouldn't be playing rugby!

I think it is the old 1980's gameplan which will be applied.  Try and keep France quiet for the first 20/30 minutes, at which point the home fans turn on them and the French players then do something stupid and get a player or two carded.  So pretty much how England started against Wales.  If France are 19 odd points down, I can't see this French team coming back like Wales did.

I hope we try and get to their 9 and 10, as all their options there can get a bit flakey if put under pressure.  Hopefully, Haskell can do this legally as he is begging to build a bit of a reputation this 6 Nations for silly foul play and it just takes a referee or linesman looking to make a name for themselves and dishing out a red card for the yellow rain to fall on England's parade.

I've not been liking the words coming from the England camp this week. Too much of it is 'we just have to turn up to win'. Sounds like a huge dose of complacency is setting in fast. If they don't shrug that off soon they will defo come a cropper in Paris. Whereas Italy really ought to throw the towel in now. Its gonna be embarrassing for them.

englandglory4ever wrote:I've not been liking the words coming from the England camp this week. Too much of it is 'we just have to turn up to win'. Sounds like a huge dose of complacency is setting in fast. If they don't shrug that off soon they will defo come a cropper in Paris. Whereas Italy really ought to throw the towel in now. Its gonna be embarrassing for them.

Obviously im reading different things.

All I keep hearing is "we will prepare well", "we will prepare thoroughly", "and if we do we will play well".

Which is a fair opinion! And shows a little bit of confidence, which is something I like. After all they HAVE beaten all the teams so far, so should have a little bit of confidence.

englandglory4ever wrote:I've not been liking the words coming from the England camp this week. Too much of it is 'we just have to turn up to win'. Sounds like a huge dose of complacency is setting in fast. If they don't shrug that off soon they will defo come a cropper in Paris. Whereas Italy really ought to throw the towel in now. Its gonna be embarrassing for them.

Who in the England camp has said anything remotely like 'we just have to turn up to win'?

Who in the England camp has said anything remotely like 'we just have to turn up to win'?

I think it was a misquote around the potential game turning performance of Brand-Haskell

"If that Turnip plays to his potential and leaves those posts alone we have a fair dinkum chance of a win"

Yeah, it's easy to misread a Plant Abuse line like that and call it arrogance.

Marler escapes ban for striking .. awaiting judgement on the other thing

BamBam wrote:Marler escapes ban for striking .. awaiting judgement on the other thing

Re-watched the first half yesterday, and thought the 'striking' thing had been a bit over-blown. He was on the floor having driven Cole over the line and used his arm to shove/hit the Welsh prop. I even think it was partly an attempt to help Cole get the ball down. A bit dumb but not 'violent conduct'.

Suspect the 'Gypsy Boy' comment will merit some sort of ban, but I wonder if the citing commissioner is struggling to find a suitable precedent.

Exiledinborders wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:I've not been liking the words coming from the England camp this week. Too much of it is 'we just have to turn up to win'. Sounds like a huge dose of complacency is setting in fast. If they don't shrug that off soon they will defo come a cropper in Paris. Whereas Italy really ought to throw the towel in now. Its gonna be embarrassing for them.

Who in the England camp has said anything remotely like 'we just have to turn up to win'?

I guess its just me unable to believe that England can actually win a GS. Nothing wrong with a bit of confidence I suppose its essential really.

dummy_half wrote:

BamBam wrote:Marler escapes ban for striking .. awaiting judgement on the other thing

Re-watched the first half yesterday, and thought the 'striking' thing had been a bit over-blown. He was on the floor having driven Cole over the line and used his arm to shove/hit the Welsh prop. I even think it was partly an attempt to help Cole get the ball down. A bit dumb but not 'violent conduct'.

Suspect the 'Gypsy Boy' comment will merit some sort of ban, but I wonder if the citing commissioner is struggling to find a suitable precedent.

Citing panel have deemed the incident not worthy of their attention, i.e. not a red card offence, therefore no sanction. Only the idiotic comment to go.

As both Lee and Gatland say it was just banter, it would be difficult to justify any significant ban

Who's this Tommy Taylor? From the pictures I've seen he looks very small for a test hooker. Please don't tell me we are going to field a Tom Youngs size hooker AGAIN.

Not a big rugby fan are you.

englandglory4ever wrote:Who's this Tommy Taylor? From the pictures I've seen he looks very small for a test hooker. Please don't tell me we are going to field a Tom Youngs size hooker AGAIN.

He's 6ft 2 and close to 17 stone. Enough of a beefcake to satisfy you?

Jimpy wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Do you think they'll have any time to play rugby what with all the swearing and fighting?

God yeah - all those English 'hot heads' in the team just one tantrum away from a red card....

Thankfully for France, any trace of racism may well be expunged from the team today, so we haven't got to worry about an English player calling opposition players 'Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys'.

Are we allowed to mention those certain amphibious web footed creatures ?
Or will that get cited ?

We should play some good rugby, but France must have one good game in them this 6n,  and they may well be saving it for England.
I really hope France stay the way they have been playing and we should be good.

Don't what the fuss is all about really. Should be a cakewalk for England - they put 50 points on them last season - and they're even worse this year. Italy put up a better resistance.

I reckon you England fans can get stuck into the celebrations early on Friday - make a weekend of it.

No thanks.

Let's be honest, France have been pretty pants this year. Just squeaked past Italy, then beat an Ireland side who should really have been out of sight at HT. Lost to a solid but workmanlike Wales side, without ever looking like winning, and well beaten by Scotland. England, if they play anything like they did for the first 70 minutes of the Wales game, will thrash them. French fans (check out lequipe forums) thoroughly expect a pasting...

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Let's be honest, France have been pretty pants this year. Just squeaked past Italy, then beat an Ireland side who should really have been out of sight at HT. Lost to a solid but workmanlike Wales side, without ever looking like winning, and well beaten by Scotland. England, if they play anything like they did for the first 70 minutes of the Wales game, will thrash them. French fans (check out lequipe forums) thoroughly expect a pasting...

I don't disagree with the above, I just think that we are pessimistic from experience of England managing one poor performance per 6Ns recently and even the pre-2003 team blew a few grand slam chances. I do think on paper this is one of the poorest French sides I can recall, but just have this horrible vision of them raising their game while we drop our level...

Agree with one of the earlier comments that the first 20 or so minutes is vital - get on top early and the crowd will turn and the low confidence of the French side should be affected. Let them get up a head of steam though and it could be a difficult match.

Some folk on here seem to think that just because England are 6ns winners, they will not turn up on staurday.

I for one think and believe England will turn up because at the moment the 6ns trophy is in the bag,.But it is the Grand Slam they will be playing for, and more than any thing England wan't that.

However this tournament France have been totally sh***t. But then France are at home, they will not wan't to disapoint their home fans  and it is the (Last match) of the tournament so will wan't too put on a show and come out all guns blazing against England.

England cannot afford to be complacent, they cannot take France lightly.

And to be honest Eddie Jones will not allow the team/squad to rest on their loralls.


I expect England to put a big score on France....But that again i expect to win the lottery every time i put my money on....( not won the big one yet) but then it is not from wan't of trying.

Any one expect any changes in the England team?

I don't except for Mako starting if Marler is banned, and to be honest I'd probably not bother with Manu. He's a bit of a waste of a bench spot at the moment off the pace and looking for form plus out of position.

BamBam wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Who's this Tommy Taylor? From the pictures I've seen he looks very small for a test hooker. Please don't tell me we are going to field a Tom Youngs size hooker AGAIN.

He's 6ft 2 and close to 17 stone. Enough of a beefcake to satisfy you?

Sounds big enough. Thanks bambam I was a bit worried we had regressed to choosing tiddlers again.

Slightly nervous but have a different feeling about this side under EJ. He's just done the simple things right.

England by 10.

On an random and unrelated note, can anyone help me identify the statue representing Italy on the BBC 6 nations opening sequence?

I honestly can't see France getting within 10 points of you guys, yes we all hear the 'depends what French side turns up cliche' but there hasn't been a decent and consistent French side for 4-5 years now.

I very much doubt Jones will let the players go out there thinking it's a done deal and that in itself will make sure their heads are in the right place leading to a comfortable victory.

France may push you for a while but I have seen nothing from then to suggest they could either sustain it for the duration of the game or outscore you.

Marler clear to play

gregortree wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Do you think they'll have any time to play rugby what with all the swearing and fighting?

God yeah - all those English 'hot heads' in the team just one tantrum away from a red card....

Thankfully for France, any trace of racism may well be expunged from the team today, so we haven't got to worry about an English player calling opposition players 'Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys'.

Are we allowed to mention those certain amphibious web footed creatures ?
Or will that get cited ?

Ducks?

yappysnap wrote:Marler clear to play

And rightly so.

Jimpy wrote:

gregortree wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Do you think they'll have any time to play rugby what with all the swearing and fighting?

God yeah - all those English 'hot heads' in the team just one tantrum away from a red card....

Thankfully for France, any trace of racism may well be expunged from the team today, so we haven't got to worry about an English player calling opposition players 'Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys'.

Are we allowed to mention those certain amphibious web footed creatures ?
Or will that get cited ?

Ducks?

 Is that a dyslexic swear ?

gregortree wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

gregortree wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Do you think they'll have any time to play rugby what with all the swearing and fighting?

God yeah - all those English 'hot heads' in the team just one tantrum away from a red card....

Thankfully for France, any trace of racism may well be expunged from the team today, so we haven't got to worry about an English player calling opposition players 'Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys'.

Are we allowed to mention those certain amphibious web footed creatures ?
Or will that get cited ?

Ducks?

 Is that a dyslexic swear ?

Then where do we go to watch the Rugby in Paris?
http://www.frogpubs.com/pub-rosbif-paris.php

I always maintained from the start of the tournament that our first game against Scotland would be our hardest.
Not necessarily because Scotland were the best team but the sequence of games & where they were played.

Fair enough if France raise their game & show us something we haven't seen yet but I can't see it happening from the evidence so far.

I find it hard to believe that a team coached by Eddie won't be both very carefully prepared and highly motivated to compete.

France are always capable of moments of brilliance, but equally always capable of imploding. That said, it's likely that England can find enough control to build a lead - the danger time is if they cop a card or have to make too many subs too early.

lostinwales wrote:Re: Manu at 12 last week. There seem to be a few concerns about what he did but I haven't seen anything that substantiates that view (yet). I thought he did as well as he could given we hardly held onto the ball and of course he tackled North into touch at the end (well that's what the AF said and who are we to argue with authority?)

The image that sticks in my mind is of the second Welsh try, and of Wales spinning the ball wide past Manu, who was struggling to keep up and left acres of space for the outside backs to defend. It was probably a bit of a perfect storm: a combination of lack of match fitness, unfamiliarity with the 12 role in defence and Wales being a man up (and the missing man on the England side being Robshaw). That said, Manu was sufficiently up to speed to make the tackle on North, so it may just have been a question of adapting to the pace of the game.

Noves made some changes in the backrow by adding some bulk which makes sense given how it was dominated by Scottish one (Lauret is good tackler but adds nothing else while Camara is either too lightweight , too young or both):

Spedding ; Fofana, Fickou, Mermoz, Vakatawa ; Trinh-Duc, Machenaud ; Chouly, Goujon, Le Roux ; Maestri, Flanquart ; Slimani, Guirado (cap), Poirot.

subs: Chiocci, Chat, Atonio, Jedrasiak, Lauret, Bézy, Plisson, Médard

ENGLAND TEAM TO PLAY FRANCE

15. Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 47 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 20 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 39 caps)
11. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
9. Danny Care (Harlequins, 57 caps)

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 31 caps)
2. Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 70 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 60 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 3 caps)
5. George Kruis (Saracens, 14 caps)
6. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 47 caps)
7. James Haskell (Wasps, 66 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens, 25 caps)

Replacements
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 2 cap)
17. Joe Marler (Harlequins 41 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints 16 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 31 caps)
20. Jack Clifford (Harlequins, 4 caps)
21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 56 caps)
22. Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
23. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 2 cap)

It's going to be a tough game. France at home will want to prove a point. I hope Nowell has a better time than he did on his debut there two years back. I think he's developed a lot since then so hopefully.

Keep it in the forwards and we'll win, batter them keep our discipline and 'take their Backs out of the game!'

Very much as expected from Eddie Jones, and it makes sense to take Marler out of the spotlight I think.

I can't see past an England win. Keep the intensity levels high and move the French about. They are re-building under Noves and lack structure in defence and attack.

England by 15 points.

trebellbobaggins wrote:It's going to be a tough game.  France at home will want to prove a point.  I hope Nowell has a better time than he did on his debut there two years back.   I think he's developed a lot since then so hopefully.

Come on, if Nowell was in the Welsh team, he'd be 'World Class'....

If Nowell was Welsh he'd be playing in France every week!