The Dew Drop Inn

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the Tommy Bowe photo on the bar. That's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?

Nite all. Im fecked too. This heat is draining.

Nite Harrow.

Just watching Graham Norton's show. It's funny

Night all, early (for a Saturday) start for me tomorrow

Oh so everyone's gone...ah well...nite All.

Evening pub, flying visit. Ken Ackered!

Gibbo, we're really hoping to do Chef's again this year. Sharpey plans on bringing his guitar. You have been warned... and he's at work so I can get away with saying that!

I know she's not a contributor, though I reckon she loiters sometimes, but can I just say a public thank you to MrsP. She has really helped me out with something that was worrying me and I am hugely grateful.

all, this is my 1st attempt at putting photos and a song to one of my poems, I know it's not the best but it's a start, feedback on youtube and here would be great, may make another tonight if i can :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWmI5tFL4ec&feature=youtube_gdata

Cari wrote:It's blydi stuffy around here. Sweating like a piggy. Oink!

Sorry Cari, but pigs can't sweat. That's why if you feed them salt they die. That's also why they wallow in Poopie, it's a cooling mechanism.

Right, that's enough agricultural pedantry. Nos da.

Just watched Baabaa's vs NZ 1973 rugby will never be that good

Number 2 : https://www.youtube.com/user/t17bdm#p/u/0/6oG64lTIbkA

Ah ha, won't be late with the papers today, stupid work


http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport?mobile-redirect=false
http://sport.scotsman.com/rugby
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/rugby

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=80
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union

Morning Hughie,

Good man with the early morning papers, just need some tea and breakfast now.

I aim to please Pete, you know that!!!

So how are you Hugh??


Ah yeah not to bad to be honest, just in work.


This early on a Saturday??


I know yeah, Poopie buzz already been here an hour, but to be honest I prefer earlys



Yeah your right least that way you can do something in the afternoon.


Exactly, if I'm working lates I just sit around waiting to go to work.


So who do you fancy for the game today??


Head says Wales heart says Baabaas, but with these two sides running rugby should be the winner. I expect Isa to produce something special for the baabaas


Yeah I think your right, anyway nice talking to you, chat later


Nice one buddy, been a pleasure

Morning All

Thanks for the Likes and Link on FB.

Just watching my first Super 15 match this season (not usually up this early on a Saturday). Lions v Hurricanes 20-15 at half time. 2 tries each.
Some very sloppy tackling in the first half by Hurricanes.
2nd Hurr try involved at least one, if not two, forward passes.

Ma'a Nonu obviously believes in forward passes - or the ref just thinks they should be ignored - just done another one so Hurricanes now got a penalty which takes them 21-20 in the lead.

Bore da. It is a fantastic day. Walking around on a morning like this confirms my belief that in weather like this you can not beat this country.

Hughie, talking to yourself? I thought your reputation was definitely not that of a soloist.

"...Dawes, John Dawes, great dummy!..."

What! It wasn't even a dummy, he just straightened the line!

John Bevan going north was a bit of a disaster.

"...It's Gareth Edwards, where did he come from, it's a dramatic start, WHAT A SCORE!..."

Gibson beat a man at least every time he had the ball.

Modern day backs could learn a thing or two from those forwards (of both teams) about how to straighten a line and keep the ball alive when you have an overlap.

It was obvious Welsh rugby fans could not stand New Zealand.

Morning all, a quick check in before I head over to Islington for netball.

A less-pleasant (and non-rugby) story from my home-town paper - it's high time the old man retired, though Mum says he's safely back at home now after a couple of days in hospital.

Glas, I'm planning on watching the 73 baabaas and today's game tomorrow morning back to back, could be an interesting contrast.

Peter Bills

Hurricanes finished strongest to win 38-27. Plucky effort from the Lions after their win at the House of Pain last week - they could be a threat next season. Earlier the Bulls edged the Waratahs 23-17 which could put the Sydneysiders' season on ice.

My picks for the top 6 at this stage;
Reds
Stormers
Blues
Crusaders
Sharks
Bulls

Kiwi, I saw your facebook status! I hope he's ok and no serious injury was caused.

For t' wall
https://www.606v2.com/t6312-your-father-s-son#150617

Bit of a coincidence, it wasn't your story that got me thinking. My Dad has spoken a lot about the 70's and I realised as I watched the 73 game that I could hear him philosophising and realised how much of a rugby influence he has had on me. I typed it before reading about your Dad's accident.

red_stag wrote:Kia I'll add it tonight. How are you anyways. Without opening Pandoras Box which camp did you fall into on the Irish debate. Should all Irish primary schools be Gaelscoils?

I know Stag ain't up / in here yet, but won't have time later on to write this, so here goes ...
No I don't want to open the Pandora's Box, but I think one has to consider why the language died in the first place. Once one has done that, one can begin to work out a way to recover the language.

1. It had no champions in the 19th century. For example, Daniel O'Connell thought that it was of little use and that everyone in Ireland should learn English. He spoke it himself but advocated English as being more useful.
   
2. The Catholic Church had a considerable influence on its demise as well. ALL seminary training was conducted through Latin or English - Maynooth, founded 1795, was a totally English-speaking seminary.
   
3. This may have been because an examination of Irish literature during the 17th and 18th centuries shows that in spite of the apparent Catholicism of the population, there was not a real grasp of the faith. It was a cultural part of native Irish society. For example if you look at the poetry of Aodhagán O Rathaille it is very evident. Even something like "The Midnight Court" shows this in abundance.
   
4. The affect of the Famine in 1845-1852 was catastrophic. What was lost can never be regained - and I am not talking of the millions who died. What was lost was the peasant culture embedded in the language and the language embedded in the culture.
   
5. Following the Famine, there was a huge movement in Ireland, led by the Church, towards what I would characterise as "lower-middle-class respectability". Think the tv sit-com character Hyacinth Bucket here. Not only at this point was English the language of officialdom and thus needed by all to interact with the State, but also Irish had been denigrated for centuries as a barbaric language fit only for ignorant, uncultured, uncouth peasants. If you were not to be characterised as such, you HAD to speak English.

So how to fix it
Firstly I would send someone over to Israel to find out how they turned their new multi-lingual state into a Hebrew speaking state. This cannot have been as easy as it may sound, but they did it. Part of the reason was the creation of a national identity.
Second The language needs a Champion. Mary McAleese did something towards this. I heard her speak off-the-cuff once in Irish and she was very good - remember she was raised in the Ardoyne when there was no Irish language instruction in schools there.
Thirdly, there has to be an effort to inculcate in everyone in Ireland a pride in the language. People have got to learn that it was not a barbaric uncivilised tongue - it was a written language BEFORE English was spoken. It has an ancient pedigree. It is the natural way for Irish people to express themselves - look at the way we have adapted English to our own cadences. Those cadences DO come over better in Irish.

From what I have seen of Leaving Cert Irish papers in recent years, it seems to me that there has been some serious dumbing down of Irish since I was in school. Do they teach the Scéalta Fianna anymore at Honours level?

So in answer to your question, there needs to be a concerted and committed effort to re-establishing the language. This has to be done VERY VERY soon or a lot of it will be lost. A recent study by American academics found that people who learnt Irish in the East of the country (around the Greater Dublin area) and spoke it regularly were in effect speaking an Anglicised version, i.e. an Irish which used English syntactical constructions. They had none of the nuances or idioms of native speakers. That is what is being lost. Trade names such as Glanbia are illustrative of this. As you know, in Irish the adjective comes after the noun, not before it; it should be Biaglan. Gael-scoil is another such example

So yes, make all primary schools Scoileanna Gael - it has to be done before the age of eleven, by that age you have learnt your physical ability to form the sounds required by a language are set, this is why adults learning a new language have rubbish accents becasue they physically cannot make the sounds required; use native speakers to at least teach the teachers; provide extra classes for adults / parents; produce all official literature in Irish thus making it normative - English versions should be available on request in the same way as other minority languages are; persuade our legislators in the Dáil and Seanad to speak in the Oireachtas in Irish at every possible occasion; publish legislation in Irish. All in all the language has to be pushed as hard and as fast as possible. Cut out the nonsense about Irish people being unable to learn more than one language that's a nonsense construction learned from the English and based on the arrogance of English people who assume everyone speaks English - when Gráinne Uí Mháille met Queen Elizabeth I in the 16th century, they conversed in Latin, their common tongue.

You could take Iceland as an example. There everyone learns English as well as Icelandic - and can speak English to a high level of fluency. That's where we need to go.

Kia darling, I cannot disagree with a single point you made there, said absolutely everything I wanted to say yesterday in an altogether clearer and perfect way.

Thank you

Kiwireddevil wrote:Peter Bills

Hurricanes finished strongest to win 38-27. Plucky effort from the Lions after their win at the House of Pain last week - they could be a threat next season. Earlier the Bulls edged the Waratahs 23-17 which could put the Sydneysiders' season on ice.

My picks for the top 6 at this stage;
Reds
Stormers
Blues
Crusaders
Sharks
Bulls

100% agree on that top 6 Kiwi. Blues v Bulls could go either way, but Crusaders will have too much for Sharks in New Zealand in the quarters.

Hope your dad is ok mate.

Kia,

Thank you very much for the input.

Made a massive faux pas last night but it was all sorted out in the end. Don't want to go anywhere close to that again though.

Kia, a tour de force as one would expect. I whole heartedly agree.

Only one thing I would add. The term Mother tongue is entirely accurate. Get the girls talking Gaelic to their toddlers and you'll be sorted.

Morning All

Just watching last week's Sunday Game. The Tipp/Cork fixture was very exciting by the looks and the Dubs managed a win (just!).

Glas,

They need to be capable of speaking the language first.

Lovely day again. Might be a bit warm in the Stadium later. Really excited. Part of me still thinks Baabaa's to win, part of me Wales. Aled Brew is 9/1 joint favourite to score first (along with North). I'm tempted.

Risca Rev wrote:Lovely day again. Might be a bit warm in the Stadium later. Really excited. Part of me still thinks Baabaa's to win, part of me Wales. Aled Brew is 9/1 joint favourite to score first (along with North). I'm tempted.

It's going to be boiling in Cardiff this afternoon Rev - bring your sun block! 8)

Jebus kiwi, glad to hear you dad's on the mend. Fair play to his boss for knowing what to do.

Good luck with the netball today.

Morning all.

Do South African Super Rugby teams have the worst jerseys in the sport?

MBTGOG wrote:Glas,

They need to be capable of speaking the language first.

No. They can learn as they teach. That's what my mother did.

I have to say, I've this growing feeling in my gut that South Africa are going to do something at this World Cup.

We really need to top our group to avoid them.

Not with Stade Francais around. And that Embra 1872 jersey. Come to think of it, a lot of ML teams have overdone it with the advertising on their jerseys.

Wasps fans were delighted with our 'classic' hooped jersey with a small main sponsor's logo (EMC2) on the arm. Tradionalists we are, but that's how to sell jerseys to real rugby fans

Traditionalists would wear a farm labourers smock and have the try line on the outskirts of two villages

Glas a du wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Glas,

They need to be capable of speaking the language first.

No. They can learn as they teach. That's what my mother did.

It's what my mother did as well, Glas, when it came to rugby!

At first I don't believe she even knew it was a funny shaped ball; after a few years of washing kit for my brothers, she was an expert - it helped that she knew Noel Murphy's mother and was able to gen up with a real expert.

(Who was Noel Murphy? Cork Constitution / Ireland / Lions flanker, 50s, 60s era)

Cheetahs

Lions

Bulls

We have one or two who still think that way Cymro

Kia its a good post but I can't agree with the Scoileanna Gael I'm afraid. You haven't addressed the concerns I raised previously. As I pointed out yesterday I'm not against Irish - I actually would have a fair conversation in it about every 3 months or so, I like it in school, got good grades etc. However just the point about making every school in the country completely Irish is something I can't agree with. As I have said I think it may improve Irish but may impact on parents ability to assist in other subjects. I also think that we need to act with the resources we have. We simply don't have the money to waste (and yes I say waste) on such a venture. Because there are ways of using what we have in a more effective manner. (BTW - we do do scealta Fianna it comes under Stair na Gaeilge).

I've thought about this more and more and should English be the first language of Ireland? No. I genuinely think that Irish should be the primary language with English being a big part of our culture.

Stag,

You're looking at the easy thing which is just to stick with what we have now instead of doing the hard thing which is taking back our own language.

I know I am Munsty. Everyone is advocating radical change but nobody is suggesting improvemetns to our current system. I think Glas was right that there is nobody more Irish than the Irish living abroad

True, but there's no one less Irish than those actually living at home. I was fortunate that through the way I came to Ireland, I realised my own nationality while still living there.

I suggested improvement yesterday to the current system and that's what I would do as I know that's as far as changes will go.

But my preference like the others would be for the scoileanna gael.

MBTGOG wrote:True, but there's no one less Irish than those actually living at home. I was fortunate that through the way I came to Ireland, I realised my own nationality while still living there.

That was certainly true of myself.

Fiji name their extended squad-

https://www.606v2.com/t6321-fiji-name-extended-squad-for-rugby-world-cup-2011

Cool I think agree to disagree is what this will come to. I should say again I'm delibrately disagreeing with you which is what Hughie suggested. Irish does need refrom. Just that particular change I couldn't support.

BTW this is in NO way a pop at anyone. NO way. Just a genuine question thats linked to both this and residency debates that are on here. If I could use you as an example Munsty as you know me well enough to not be offended. If Munsty you never returned to live in Ireland again would you consider yourself to be Irish? If you would live be 84 years old, you would have only been 14% of your life living in Ireland. Could or would you still feel Irish. And what is Irish? These things puzzle me sometimes.

In all honesty, I think a bilingual Ireland is a great and noble goal. But there will always be those who are resistant to learning and changing so it will take several generations. The changes suggested by Hughie and Kia are good ones.

How do you define your Irishness? By language? Culture? Geographical convenience?

For me, I'm Irish because I come from Ireland. There are different cultures in Ireland; the dominant being the Gaelic tradition. But that language and tradition, whilst the dominant majority on the island, is not the only culture on the island. You can be Irish whilst being a Unionist, whilst not speaking Irish, without an Irish passport at present even because being Irish is just someone from Ireland.

It's a whole variety of things Stag. Probably the biggest one is that my formative years were spent in Ireland. But different things like a very long and proud Irish lineage.

I think most of all though, for me anyway, is the comfort I feel when I'm in Ireland, no matter where I go, I don't feel lost or out of place. I feel that in other countries.

While people may try, nationality can't be defined by facts, it's a choice at the end of the day for each and every person. My choice is that I'm Irish for my own reasons as it should be with everyone else.

Notch wrote:In all honesty, I think a bilingual Ireland is a great and noble goal. But there will always be those who are resistant to learning and changing so it will take several generations. The changes suggested by Hughie and Kia are good ones.

How do you define your Irishness? By language? Culture? Geographical convenience?

For me, I'm Irish because I come from Ireland. There are different cultures in Ireland; the dominant being the Gaelic tradition. But that language and tradition, whilst the dominant majority on the island, is not the only culture on the island. You can be Irish whilst being a Unionist, whilst not speaking Irish, without an Irish passport at present even because being Irish is just someone from Ireland.

I don't think thats a fair view of my point. I am not hesitant to change and especially not learning the language. I just disagree with one proposal made and gave what I thought were valid reasons.

The Irish thing is a puzzler Notch. Where you come from is powerful but not a really it either. Heaslip comes from Israel I suppose home is where the heart is.

MBTGOG wrote:It's a whole variety of things Stag. Probably the biggest one is that my formative years were spent in Ireland. But different things like a very long and proud Irish lineage.

I think most of all though, for me anyway, is the comfort I feel when I'm in Ireland, no matter where I go, I don't feel lost or out of place. I feel that in other countries.

While people may try, nationality can't be defined by facts, it's a choice at the end of the day for each and every person. My choice is that I'm Irish for my own reasons as it should be with everyone else.

Super post. Out of interest are we allowed to talk as Gaelige on this? Could we create a thread for discussion in Irish I wonder. You know what would be amazing. A player to give an interview to TG4 as Gaeilge after a Magners game.

Stag,

He wasn't saying you are but a lot of Irish people certainly are. Sure why learn Irish when the most influential people around the world all speak English to one degree or another anyway?


Oh I also wouldn't want to be any other nationality as no other damn country has hot delis in every newsagents and petrol station. What's wrong with them?!

Munsty theres a business start up venture to get you through college. You'll be a millionaire.