Monte Carlo Masters

First topic message reminder :

The draw is out for the third Masters tournament of the year:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2016/410/mds.pdf

Quarter finals if the top 8 seeds make it through:
Djokovic - Ferrer
Federer - Tsonga
Wawrinka - Nadal
Berdych - Murray

Federer opens against Bellucci or Garcia Lopez then likely Bautista Agut to get to the quarters. Not too bad a test after 2 months off.

Nadal has a really tough draw - probably R2 Rosol, R3 Thiem, QF Wawrinka (or Simon/Dimitrov), SF Murray (or Berdych/Raonic). If he can make it through that lot to the final, perhaps he will have the form to beat Djokovic there.

Jahu wrote:Lets hope so, no one cares for Nadal and Djoko on MC.

I said a while ago, that the dirt could now be Andy's best surface. Logically, his type of came should be tailor made for it - he just needs get first serves in. I also think he secretly fancies himself on clay now and has far more confidence

He just needs to wake up in the early rounds

He does have a real history of close matches against lower ranks, usually because he doesn't bother to attack, or get his 1st serve in. I see that rafa pulled off another big win. Does that wet him up with Andy?

Was a good performance from Nadal, although hard to say much more than that given how poor Wawrinka was. Still, clearly a step up in performance from the Thiem match, was much more aggressive and controlled the rallies well.

If Murray turns up like he did today it could/should be a very good match. If the Murray from earlier this week turns up it will be a similar scoreline to today's game, reversed.

Fed vs Tsonga now. Tsonga hasn't done anything this year, so don't see him troubling Feds here.

temporary21 wrote:He does have a real history of close matches against lower ranks, usually because he doesn't bother to attack, or get his 1st serve in. I see that rafa pulled off another big win.  Does that wet him up with Andy?

I honestly think that, other than playing Novak, these matches are in Andy's head. Of course it will be no shock if Rafa wins, but it shouldn't be a surprise if Andy does

I'm going for Rafa, simply because there's some kind of conspiracy to prevent Roger and Andy playing on clay

True it hard to say how the match would have concluded had the real Stan turned up but as we say you can only play what is in front of you, I felt that Stan was his own worst enemy at times..too temperamental
But I was greatly encouraged by the aggression Rafa showed and whatever, Stan still may have been beaten but in three very close sets.

Definite signs of improvement from Rafa and his confidence seems to be growing with every match... v Andy?????.. well I remain optimistic should be worth watching at any rate

Haddie-nuff wrote:True  it hard to say how the match would have concluded had the real Stan turned up but as we say you can only play what is in front of you,  I felt that Stan was his own worst enemy at times..too temperamental
But I was greatly encouraged by the aggression Rafa showed and whatever, Stan still may have been beaten but in three very  close sets.

Definite signs of improvement from Rafa and his confidence seems to be growing with every match... v Andy?????.. well I remain optimistic should be worth watching at any rate

I think there's an ever so slight decline in Stan. I always felt that his peak would be shorter than the so called Big 4's who I reckon are going to be the Top 4 once again at some time this year

Must admit, I've got a feeling that Rafa's going to have one fantastic last 'hurrah' and I like his chances for the French

banbrotam wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:True  it hard to say how the match would have concluded had the real Stan turned up but as we say you can only play what is in front of you,  I felt that Stan was his own worst enemy at times..too temperamental
But I was greatly encouraged by the aggression Rafa showed and whatever, Stan still may have been beaten but in three very  close sets.

Definite signs of improvement from Rafa and his confidence seems to be growing with every match... v Andy?????.. well I remain optimistic should be worth watching at any rate

I think there's an ever so slight decline in Stan. I always felt that his peak would be shorter than the so called Big 4's who I reckon are going to be the Top 4 once again at some time this year

Must admit, I've got a feeling that Rafa's going to have one fantastic last 'hurrah' and I like his chances for the French

My view is that if Nadal's knees are okay he will win the French, with Djokovic the only possible person to beat him.  But we know for certain Nadal's physical condition has declined as judged by his fall off at Wimbledon.  So it is just a question of how great the decline is.

banbrotam wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:True  it hard to say how the match would have concluded had the real Stan turned up but as we say you can only play what is in front of you,  I felt that Stan was his own worst enemy at times..too temperamental
But I was greatly encouraged by the aggression Rafa showed and whatever, Stan still may have been beaten but in three very  close sets.

Definite signs of improvement from Rafa and his confidence seems to be growing with every match... v Andy?????.. well I remain optimistic should be worth watching at any rate

I think there's an ever so slight decline in Stan. I always felt that his peak would be shorter than the so called Big 4's who I reckon are going to be the Top 4 once again at some time this year

Must admit, I've got a feeling that Rafa's going to have one fantastic last 'hurrah' and I like his chances for the French

I think Stan knows he needs to have his A game to beat a Rafa/Djokovic/Murray. He tanked the WTF against Rafa, which was a bit of a disgrace. I get the feeling if he isn't 'on' then he knows he's unlikely to grind out a victory against them.

Every good Rafa run of late has crashed down in a big way...normally to Djokovic. I am backing Murray to beat him tomorrow.

Big Jo playing alright

Tsong wins, great break game on third set.

Fed missed a few to win it, but not bad come back.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
Fed vs Tsonga now. Tsonga hasn't done anything this year, so don't see him troubling Feds here.

good call

Missed the match, but stats suggest a bit error prone from both, Feds with only one ace to 4 DFs, that's unusual

Jahu wrote:Tsong wins, great break game on third set. ...

Wow. Does this mean Federer is finished. Recent evidence from this tournament suggests Djokovic is finished. So it looks like a Nadal - Murray final for the next few slams.

I suppose Federer is just tuning up for Wimbledon & the Olympics after recovering from his knee injury that forced him out of a few tournaments in Feb & March of this year.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
Fed vs Tsonga now. Tsonga hasn't done anything this year, so don't see him troubling Feds here.

good call

Missed the match, but stats suggest a bit error prone from both, Feds with only one ace to 4 DFs, that's unusual

Talk about self congratulatory

Nooooooooooooooooooo!! We'll never get a Fedrray clay match

Well, at least one Murray win today, as Jamie and his partner Soares have triumphed in their doubles match.

Which keeps their number one ranking

Solid start from Andy. Rafa seems to be hitting his shots with much more assurance and potency - a bit more like the Rafa of old.

Andy wins the first set 6-2 This is perhaps his best performance of the year so far. Aggressive hitting and Rafa must dig deep now but does he have another two intense sets in his legs?

Marcus Buckland just stated this on sky sports 'this match up suits Murray on clay'. P!ss off you pratt

Come on Andy, give him a lesson on clay

Murray (the player who once said I'll never win the FO)giving the King of clay a lesson on clay?? Getting a bit surreal now!

I think Andy wining FO this year (beating Djoko in the final), would be a good baby gift and finally kill Djokos ability to play for good

That eighth game was fire

Whatever the result in this match Rafa can take a lot of heart from it. Hitting with much more purpose than I've seen from him for some time. This match has got some marvelous rallies. Ooops will get attacked for that positivity.

Massive game incoming now.

Uncle Toni credits Nadal playing off his "wrong" hand as the reason why his serves have always been slightly underwhelming. Makes sense given the co-ordination actually need to hit an accelerating ball above your head. Strange though that he seems BOSS at the reverse smash

Ok so we are going 3. Any chance of the Andy of set 1 returning? The odd first serve somewhere near the box could possibly help...

Rafa bounces back to take the second set 6-4. Cracking match this.

Born Slippy wrote:Ok so we are going 3. Any chance of the Andy of set 1 returning? The odd first serve somewhere near the box could possibly help...

It is key. When his first serve fires it aids him mentally and frees him up for more aggressive stuff.

Yeah, mug start to that set and not putting the smash away at 3-3 were pretty crucial as well. Has there ever been a top player less able to stomp on an opponent when they are down?

brilliant match. Both these guys making a mockery of the negativity surrounding them. Like this, Rafa could still be a clay specialist another few years!

temporary21 wrote:brilliant match. Both these guys making a mockery of the negativity surrounding them. Like this, Rafa could still be a clay specialist another few years!

It would be great if Andy could somehow win this but the standard he has played it bodes well for the coming weeks and months.

Its great for the competition no matter who wins this. Slow start for Murray but Rafas serve is not bulletproof by any means

Great first set from Murray, almost perfect, but I'm confused why he fell away so badly in the second set. In the blink of an eye, he dropped yards behind the baseline, lost his intensity, his first serve disappeared and he started grumbling.

Nadal grasped the initiative from there, but why the sudden fall? Can't be physical one set into a match. Why does he struggle to maintain his level so much nowadays?

He always has. He just doesnt have the superhuman concentration of the others.

Its partly because he has to get so psyched up to play his best.

Andy going to be steaming!

Murray's not a true contender for the French open. His meek collapse shows he unable to maintain a consistent level throughout a match. It's nigh on impossible to try and paint the lines relentlessly

Danny_1982 wrote:Great first set from Murray, almost perfect, but I'm confused why he fell away so badly in the second set. In the blink of an eye, he dropped yards behind the baseline, lost his intensity, his first serve disappeared and he started grumbling.

Nadal grasped the initiative from there, but why the sudden fall? Can't be physical one set into a match. Why does he struggle to maintain his level so much nowadays?

Born Slippy touched on it earlier. It really is a lot to do with first serve stats. His first serve stats are good his game is good but when it dips the mental demons encroach in his game - in my opinion.

Jermaine2015 wrote:Murray's not a true contender for the French open. His meek collapse shows he unable to maintain a consistent level throughout a match. It's nigh on impossible to try and paint the lines relentlessly

We'd better rule out the reigning champion as a contender as well then considering how much more of a collapse that was.

Andy Murray arguing with the umpire whilr kopping a hiding in the third is lulz. Playing the wrong man Andy

Full on Mental implosion.

It's so frustrating watching him reach that level of play, then fail to sustain it. It's not just that it dropped 5%, that can happen to anyone, but his intensity vanished. He dropped 2 metres virtually the moment the second set started.

That's the time to play with more intensity than ever! Makes me think back to Lendl, mental giant. And he is the only one who has managed to get that sustained intensity from Andy, and consequently the big wins.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Jermaine2015 wrote:Murray's not a true contender for the French open. His meek collapse shows he unable to maintain a consistent level throughout a match. It's nigh on impossible to try and paint the lines relentlessly

We'd better rule out the reigning champion as a contender as well then considering how much more of a collapse that was.

Rule Stan out as much as you like. He's 2/2 in major finals. Tell me again how many times Murray has bottled it in major finals?

Gotta be in it to win it... 11 masters tells its own tale

Its a great week for both these men regardless. Its a massive step up in level from both, theyve joined the party

Lets just remember Rafa is an 8-times winner here. Murray came here on a poor run of form with early exits at Indian Wells and Miami against lesser opponents - this is a step forward. Sure the third set has been bad but I'd say there are reasons for that - Murray's serve stats dipped, Nadal smelled blood and issues with the umpire. But I tell you this - I feel much better about the prospects for the coming months for Andy than I did before Monte Carlo.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Lets just remember Rafa is an 8-times winner here. Murray came here on a poor run of form with early exits at Indian Wells and Miami against lesser opponents - this is a step forward. Sure the third set has been bad but I'd say there are reasons for that - Murray's serve stats dipped, Nadal smelled blood and issues with the umpire. But I tell you this - I feel much better about the prospects for the coming months for Andy than I did before Monte Carlo.

Murray choked against Nadal who's been woeful for over 12 months.

Jermaine2015 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Jermaine2015 wrote:Murray's not a true contender for the French open. His meek collapse shows he unable to maintain a consistent level throughout a match. It's nigh on impossible to try and paint the lines relentlessly

We'd better rule out the reigning champion as a contender as well then considering how much more of a collapse that was.

Rule Stan out as much as you like. He's 2/2 in major finals. Tell me again how many times Murray has bottled it in major finals?

How many Masters titles does Stan have?

How many Olympic Golds does Stan have?

How many career titles does Stan have?

How many slam finals has he reached?

List is endless but what's the point.

Andy to throw the umpire off his chair and proceed to assault him at the end of the match?

Jermaine2015 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Lets just remember Rafa is an 8-times winner here. Murray came here on a poor run of form with early exits at Indian Wells and Miami against lesser opponents - this is a step forward. Sure the third set has been bad but I'd say there are reasons for that - Murray's serve stats dipped, Nadal smelled blood and issues with the umpire. But I tell you this - I feel much better about the prospects for the coming months for Andy than I did before Monte Carlo.

Murray choked against Nadal who's been woeful for over 12 months.

A double negative.

Jahu wrote:Come on Andy, give him a lesson on clay

Err... I meant Nadal to teach Andy some clay, after the result now